It's amusing to watch people pretend that Hillary hate is about "issues".

[DanTex]

With the daily OPs about things like emails and Benghazi and her "likability," the periodic declarations of sitting out the GE and handing the keys to the GOP if Hillary is the nominee, and the total ignoring of her across-the-board progressive platform, nobody is fooled. Except perhaps the Hillary haters themselves: admitting that one is driven by irrational hatred is never easy to do.

[Scuba]

1. It's amusing to watch Hillary's supporters deny that voters care about issues.

[SonderWoman]

4. I'm guessing there will be no links to your claim?

[Scuba]

6. What claim? That I'm amused? No, there's no link for that.

[artislife]

15. ^^^this.

[roguevalley]

87. How is it that the 'hillary hater' posts are about perceived slights and grievances but

never about what she believes in, will do and has done? Why are there so few hillary posts outside her protected group here trumpeting her greatness so that the rest of us can see it? What about her stand on issues and the rest of it? Why is it always stupid stuff like 'hillary haters'? Seriously. That's just about all I see her, hillary supporters gnashing their teeth and calling out everyone on every thread. That is getting so tiresome. Don't tell us you're pissed about a slight. Tell everyone why she's the best candidate. Put down her actual expressed positions on the issues that matter. I don't know what she believes on the most serious issues except she will tell me when she's elected. I won't buy a bag without looking inside. I'm sympathetic to your feelings in the tidal wave of bernie support here. But there is a REASON FOR IT! He says what he stands for and it has resonated. She only gives generalities and slogans. Change your narrative and step away from the simpering stuff. Make your goal to change the narrative about WHY we should consider her and not about your sads.

[Armstead]

32. LINK YOUR LAUGHTER dammitall n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

63. one of your more awesome posts of all time

[beam me up scottie]

34. !

[daleanime]

81. Truly a classic....

[Autumn]

2. You and I agree on one thing, nobody is fooled. eom

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. I am amazed at the lack of self-awareness

Hateful vitriolic rhetoric is spewed hourly on DU regarding Clinton. Any positive post is swarmed by posters gleefully posting snide or ugly remarks. And they wonder why people think their reactions are more than disagreement with issues.

Amazing.

[DanTex]

7. Exactly. And the posts where Hillary's progressive platform are discussed are often the ones the

most swarmed by hatred and snide one-liners. The self-delusion is remarkable.

[Sunlei]

43. “We take no options off the table”

That will always be Americas position about Iran.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. Welcome to DU

You have mistaken the speaker. That was McCain. Perhaps you are in the wrong forum?

[sibelian]

33. Their reactions are largely explainable

when one observes that a substantial proportion of Hillary supporters appear very genuinely to believe that the entirety of DU is populated by people with the IQ of lobotomised cows.

Positive posts can fuck off. I want useful information, not cuddles.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. if it quacks like a duck...n/t

[sibelian]

49. No, in fact most people on DU *don't* have the IQ of lobotomised cows.

I think that might be the problem.

[Evergreen Emerald]

51. Then, why do they act like it?

The problem is that when the RW use the media and the Congress to attack a Democratic Candidate in an attempt to take her down, and the "high IQ liberals" squeal in gleeful delight, it calls into question the ability to see the bigger picture.

We should not be applauding the attempt to take down a democrat with lies.

[sibelian]

58. They don't. And, "A democrat" means nothing beyond what each candidate SAYS it does.

And voters owe the Democrats NOTHING and owe Clinton NOTHING, certainly not protection from Republicans.

Either she's what the voters want or she isn't. Including registered Democrats.

The party exists to enact policy. When the party has drifted away from the policies it's base requires of it, it no longer has a base. This has nothing to do with the skeeeeery right wing, which currently consists of a rabble of crack-addled zombies on a leaking lifeboat anyway.

It's nothing to do with the left-leaning base either. If they pull the party all the way over to "We are basically Republicans now" land, what do you expect people to do? "Here my pretties, this is what 'a democrat' is now. Oh! Oh! You are opposed to it, you horrid traitors! But they are 'a DEMOCRAT'. And you are displeased! Oh my goodness, this is terrible! Oh, you are not proper 'democrats'! We changed what 'a democrat' is and now you say it's not what you want! Well, you cannot be 'democrats' then!" NOOOO FRICKEN SHIT, SHERLOCK.

How could you possibly have read what I've said to you about being pissed off about being treated as if one has the IQ of a lobotomised cow and then responded with nebulous fuzzlings about "a democrat" as if we both don't know perfectly well that for your purposes that term means whatever you bloody well want it to mean?

What do you expect ME to do about it if your position requires you to pretend I have no mind of any description?

What do you expect ME to do about it if YOU can't be bothered to think straight?

[Evergreen Emerald]

61. You understand that you are on a democratic board?

This is where dems come to discuss issues with like minded people, without the hate and vitriol of the noise machine? Perhaps you have landed in the wrong location.

The parties exist to exact policy...as does the Congress. And when that power is used instead as a political campaign tool to gain more power at the costs of the citizenry then we should be alarmed rather than gleeful.

Completely missing the big picture.

[sibelian]

64. Go and read what I said to you AGAIN

And then read what you've just said to ME

"You understand that you are on a democratic board?" (gosh, really? duuuuh, I must be stoopid)

And then recall THIS:

"Their reactions are largely explainable when one observes that a substantial proportion of Hillary supporters appear very genuinely to believe that the entirety of DU is populated by people with the IQ of lobotomised cows."

And then bring yourself to the point of considering a response to what I posted, and NOT a response to:

"OH, HELLO, WHERE AM I, IS THIS A DEMOCRATIC BOARD? OH MY GOODESS THE HATE AND VITRIOL OF THE NOISE MACHINE! IT AM SO TERRRIBULE! AM I IN THE RIGHT PLACE?"

.... which is something approaching a post that your response might have been pertinent to.

Either you have a counterpoint to my assertion that the meaning of the term "democrat" requires establishment or you have nothing to say to me.

I couldn't care less whether or not you think I'm an "appropriate" contributor to this board. Of course I don't! Why should I?

If you can't address what I say, why should I or anybody else lend your "bigger picture" (which is never anything more than a euphemism for the perpetual moveable feast of "nebulous stuff I 'get' that you don't which I don't actually have to give any details on or explain" - it's a dumb linguistic trick - nothing else) the least credence?

Incidentally, if you DID have something substantive to counter my position, you'd post it instantly, of COURSE you would, and nobody on this board or anywhere else is stupid enough to believe you wouldn't.

If the term democrat doesn't really mean anything, it doesn't MATTER whether or not this is a "democratic" board.

[sibelian]

65. And while we're on the subject, O poor little pilgrim so very wounded by the vitriol

and the oh so nasty noise machine, if you don't want that sort of thing you know what you can do with your cruddy "quacks like a duck" and "why do they behave like they have the IQs of lobotomised cows" schtick, don't you?

I know the supporters of the SUPER SPECIAL Candidate Who Stands for Whatever She Tells You You Ought to Be voting For or You'd Be Criticising Her and That's MEEEEAN Dontcha Know have some sort of mind-filter that excludes them from understanding the ordinary meaning of English words like "irony", but I don't think any of them can be entirely ignorant of the word "hypocrisy" as this entire primary season is clearly a surrogate process for the Third Way Hypocrite of the Year Awards.

I'll nominate you if you like.

[roguevalley]

89. seriously, bitching about vitriol while calling most of DU insults about IQ? It pains me to see

that the other candidate has nothing more than grievance and name calling to support their candidate. I'm serious here. This is primary season and a lot of stuff flies but calling names to those who disagree with you is incredible.

[MohRokTah]

5. I have decided to sit out the GE if Bernie is nominated.

Can't bring myself to vote for a Socialist.

[MohRokTah]

23. He won't be a Democrat. eom

[MohRokTah]

28. I disGree completely

He is extreme left.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. If your test for who is a Democrat can be passed by Kim Davis but not Bernie Sanders

You are using the wrong test.

[MohRokTah]

37. Berne Sanders is not now, nor has he ever been a Democrat. eon

[Duckhunter935]

76. Kim is

I am glad you would support her as she a democrat more than Bernie who actually walks the walk.

[roguevalley]

90. someone who won't vote for a 'socialist' while living in what is essentially a socialist country is

too far to the right for my tastes. I will vote for Bernie and be proud. But then, I am a unionized FDR dem. Look it up.

[Fawke Em]

60. It is, but that poster is beyond help when it comes to this issue.

That poster only cares if someone has a "D" after their name and not about the principles that "D" SHOULD stand for.

That poster is part of the party politick and feels threatened that a perceived outsider (all-be-it one who has caucused with Democrats for years and has the DNC's permission to run on their ticket) is taking the glory from the insiders.

[daleanime]

82. Poster is a One-Piece fan?

Sorry, inside joke. I couldn't help myself.

[wendylaroux]

29. true nt

[SidDithers]

25. ...

Sid

[SidDithers]

31. ...

Sid

[zappaman]

42. I apologize on behalf of DU for Sid's actions.

And a sincere Welcome Back....again.

[zappaman]

53. See you around!

[Capn Sunshine]

62. Zombies are everywhere

Now that we have some IPs it's a little easier.

[zappaman]

66. Gone already?!

And I thought we were gonna be friends!

[wendylaroux]

30. hi!!!!

[sibelian]

50. H'okidokey.

Good for you for standing up for what you believe in.

It would be slightly better if you believed in something a little more meaningful than "EEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKK!!!! NOT SOSSSSHALLIZZUM" but I suppose at least that's something.

[MohRokTah]

72. "Democrat party"

You out yourself for what you are on your very first post.

[hifiguy]

80. They ain't making trolls like they used to.

[roguevalley]

95. two things.

one, most of this board has been aware of politics since Reagan. They missed what upfront and self identified liberals were. Liberal was what we called ourselves then and it wasn't a swear word. Maybe hillary feels left to some when its clear to those of us who remember what it means to be liberal, ie, believing in what Bernie believes in, that she isn't. If Reagan was your first clear president, then of course, you can't figure out what bernie means. He's actually espousing and standing for actual real democratic principles and positions. He does so with passion and fearlessness. I feel for those who can't remember what dems were like and all you know is the spineless fucks that exist now. Debbie Stabinow would be punted into orbit around Mars if the party was actually what it was created to be. That might be part of the problem here with some.

[MohRokTah]

96. I remember what Dems were like before Reagan.

The Carter Administration was very conservative.

McGovern was liberal. Look at how far that got us.

[Spirochete]

97. Well, I sure hope

you get a chance to do that...

[SouthernProgressive]

8. You mean posting an unflattering picture of her without comment isn't about issues.

Their issue was her looks. See how it works. The hate is that obvious.

[roguevalley]

91. says the 'grumpy old racist' side of things.

[Bonobo]

9. Literally a day does not go by without the lame-brained phrase "Hillary Hate" on this site.

And it is clear to some of us that it is merely another sleazy tactic to attack Sanders by means of attacking his supporters. The same thing was done to Dean in 2008 and there is a very good reason. It is because it is hard to attack the candidate.

It is transparent. It is substance-free.

GD is about the Primaries. The DU supporters of Bernie on not running for office, so why don't you give the sleazy tactics a rest.

There are MANY reasons to oppose Hillary, some are based on issues and some are based on a strong feeling that she is a unprincipled and insincere. The reasons have been posted enough that you must have had your fingers in your ears or are feigning ignorance.

But you have become a one-trick pony with the "Hillary-Hate" meme. It has become a cartoon caricature of itself and is deserves little more than taunting at this point.

[DanTex]

10. "Lame-brained" is an interesting phrase, given that it in itself is "lame-brained".

It's like an MC Escher painting. Well done.

Still, calling the notion of Hillary hate "lame-brained" or anything else doesn't change the fact that it exists and it's all over GDP.

[Bonobo]

11. Let's ignore you bringing irrelevancies into a forum that should be discussing the primaries...

For just a moment, let's pretend that discussing the inner psychology of a certain segment of DU is not just META crap and that it is actually more important than discussing the candidates running for the office of POTUS.

We will, to humor you, imagine that the issue of Sanders' supporters having strong feelings (you call it 'hate'!) towards Hillary is itself more urgent to discuss than the repercussions of nominating one candidate over another... Okay? I mean, I can put aside the ridiculousness and reckless superficiality of such a discussion because, after all, we live in a sort of dumbed down infotainment word with all sorts of clickbait shit has come to take the place of political discussion. So I am not surprised...

But forgetting that, let me ask you this: If 85% of DU really is as opposed to Hillary, even filled with "hatred" as you suggest, than aren't we in a lot of trouble nominating a candidate like that who is so despised by so many democrats? I mean... you can't REALLY believe that DU is so unrepresentative, can you? Why on earth would it be THAT of a anomaly? It makes no sense. It isn't.

So... let's pretend, to humor you again, that this Hillary, this strong "Progressive" that you say is only pretending to be a "moderate" (she called herself a moderate) is actually so loathed... let's say you have convinced us.

Well, Mr. Tex, well done, sir.

You have just made the best argument for why she is a TERRIBLE choice to be our candidate.

Thanks for your hard work. I applaud you.

[Rex]

13. Nice ownage you got going there!

Easy to see right throught the OP ain't it?

[DanTex]

16. Some interesting points you bring up.

more urgent to discuss than the repercussions of nominating one candidate over another

The consequences of nominating Bernie are a GOP presidency. I agree, that is an important thing to discuss, although IIRC you want that one to be off-limits too because of "racism" or something incomprehensible.

you can't REALLY believe that DU is so unrepresentative, can you?

Yes, I can. You see, they have these things called polls...

[artislife]

17. One trick to be sure

but what a work ethic, I mean nonstop!

[Thor_MN]

59. Simple, unbiased (if one is honest) Metric.

Go though the titles of posts in this form:

Add up the number of posts that are obviously Anti-Clinton.

Add up the number of posts that are obviously Anti-Sanders.

Compare the numbers and try to deny that "Hillary Hate" is a real thing.

She has the right hating her (trolls exist) and she has a contingent of the left hating on her. One has to really search to find even a single Anti-Sanders post. There are minor numbers of Pro-Clinton and Pro-Sanders posts, some that are none one the above. The majority are Anti-Clinton.

As far as I am concerned, it's too early to pick, they both have pros and cons. I just wish the supporters could be as above board as the candidates.

[emulatorloo]

68. "A strong feeling HRC is unprincipled and insincere" is psychoanalysis, not policy

It is an attack on character. It is very personal attack based on projecting vile motives on to another person.

It makes a unwarranted leap from 'HRC's Policies are Bad" to "HRC is a bad Person."

When you add the fact that it inadvertently echoes the kind of character assassination practiced by the GOP against HRC (corrupt, liar, opportunist, blah blah) I can see why some posters here would view vitriolic arm-chair psychology character attacks as "Hillary Hate."

I know Hillary supporters in real life, they aren't bad people or ignorant.

Attacking HRC's character is not an effective way to convincing them to support Bernie.

Bottom line HRC is too conservative for me.

Explaning how Bernies policy approaches would make him a great President goes a long way towards getting them to consider supporting Bernie.

Psychologizing Hillary aNd character assassination? Not so much.

In the long term, I think we need to understand that once Bernie wins Iowa and New Hampshire the GOP'ers and Fox are going to engage in full blown psychologising of Bernie and vile character assassination. In other words pushing "Bernie-Hate".

[jeepers]

12. The claim of victomhood

conveys neither strength nor confidence. It is counter to your goal of making your candidate look strong. It makes you look weak and frankly, pitiable .

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. Welcome to DU Jeepers

"Victomhood" is not the claim. But, go ahead and prove the point.

[Scuba]

20. Nailed it. And welcome to DU.

[artislife]

14. Really?

Why attack supporters when you could build up your candidate?


Because, you get the clickbait.



Sometimes I feel this forum is one gigantic Answers.com portal.




Vote on this OP

[Avalux]

19. I don't hate Hillary. When I think of the future of this country, she isn't the best choice.

I know it's difficult for Hillary supporters to understand that some of us don't want her as our first choice. I've laid out my reasons before, and they have nothing to do with hate.

I'm looking at the bigger picture - what needs to change to make this country work for everyone. If elected, Hillary will continue the current trajectory - her 'admission' that she's a moderate Democrat confirms this. If she truly is progressive, why doesn't she claim it?

[SidDithers]

24. DU rec...nt

Sid

[sibelian]

35. She's already stated herself that she's a "moderate".

Why are you spending everyone's attention on this?

[beam me up scottie]

39. You just answered your own question.

She said she's a moderate yet Dan still claims she has an "across-the-board progressive platform".

He's deploying a bat squirrel to try to make us forget about that.

[sibelian]

44. Why does he even BOTHER?

Bernie's accused of being a paedophile protector and Hillary looks at fifty million polls and she wants to be all hawkish and she wants gay marriage when it suits her and he's the bad guy and she's the good guy...

blaaaarglebarfleblargppppbbbth!

Ugh.

It's long since passed into numtpy-head territory.

[beam me up scottie]

46. Everyone needs a hobby, I like to ride my horses and kayak local waterways in my spare time.

At least Dan's hobby is keeping us amused.

[AgingAmerican]

38. It's amusing to watch people pretend 'issues' are actually 'Hillary hate'.

Coming from you especially, given 80% of your OPs attack Sanders or his supporters.

Projection.

[Spirochete]

57. Mention "issues" to him

he'll reply "gezundheit"

[cheapdate]

54. Don't rock the boat.

Hillary "hate" is spurious and completely irrational, so sayeth the OP.

[madamesilverspurs]

52. Bernie said he would not trash Hillary.

He should tell his supporters. Seriously, the purported "pro-Sanders" bullies here are starting to drive people away from him; it's gotten ridiculous.

[RichVRichV]

84. Maybe Hillary should tell her supporters to start acting better also.

It cuts both ways.

And us online "pro-Sander's bullies" have driven so many people away that he now dominates on virtually every form of social media out there (including the vast majority of people on DU supporting him).

Just because you make a claim doesn't mean it's true.

[marble falls]

56. Yeah because Hillary Clinton's supportof TPP, IWR, NSA intercept, fracking, Keystone, Artic drilling

capital punishment, mandatory minimum sentences, three strike laws, dark money, private prison industry, etc stands that don't represent 90% of us here at DU, including you, I bet.

These differences aren't minor or meaningless. If she gets the nod (and I hope she doesn't without explaining why she doesn't represent us on these important issues), I will enthusiastically support her. And do everything I can do to get the vote out to get us a working Congress in 2016 and 2020.

[Blue_In_AK]

67. What?

I don't hate Hillary. In fact, I caucused for her in 2008. I just happen to agree more with Bernie Sanders' positions on issues that are important to me than hers.

There's too much hyperbole being bandied about here on DU these days.

[roguevalley]

92. blue, I hug ya It is hard when your candidate is getting drubbed both online

and everywhere else. If she was really so awesome it wouldn't be happening. Take care out there, Blue

[Warren DeMontague]

69. "across-the-board progressive platform"

How about a list of the bullet points?

Not snarky. Serious.

[Juicy_Bellows]

73. I believe he was being snarky not serious though.

A lot of these posts don't look both ways. The navel doesn't gaze back!

Cheers!

[Warren DeMontague]

74. I know she's going to "empower communities and families"

Perhaps by having a community empowering family focused empowerment community focus.

[roguevalley]

93. oh god, Warren. DUZY!

[Blue_In_AK]

94. You're killing me...

[jfern]

70. The idea that they're similar on the issues is ridiculous

[David__77]

75. I don't hate Hillary. I also think she lacked integrity.

Back in 2008 - so long ago - I did not care for some of her campaign tactics against Obama.

I didn't like the commercial where Obama's statement about people "clinging" to religion and guns was criticized. She said more than that, inferring that Obama looked down on Pennsylvanians (

).

I didn't like her husband's comments about Obama after the South Carolina primary ("Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here." see: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/bubba-obama-is.html). I understand that this is posed as a compliment. My personal interpretation is that that is a covertly hostile attack. I do hold Hillary Clinton responsible for his comment.

I didn't like when Hillary Clinton said McCain has experience he "will bring to the White House" while Obama has a "speech" he made (see McCain's commercial quoting her:

).

The "ideas" commercial referenced here is an example of what I find to be inauthentic campaign tactics: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/us/politics/24dems.html.

I don't think she was being a person of integrity in using those campaign tactics.

Edited to add: She, in my opinion, is hardly the only person in politics to have not been a person of integrity in campaigning! I get that it's quite ordinary.

I don't have an especially fixed viewpoint on this, and haven't decided on supporting any candidate.

[Motown_Johnny]

77. and yet you don't present any real issues in her favor.

I have been trying to find substantive reasons for Hillary's support for quite a while and still have no luck.

Case in point: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251486174


All her support seems to be visceral rather than rational. You just like her so you support her.


Now that people have begun to pay attention to the race, her support is evaporating.The more people think about who they really want in the White House, the worse she looks.

[HooptieWagon]

78. OP likes 'real' Dems with a D behind their name...

...Kim Davis (D) for example.

[applegrove]

79. It is about GOP ginning up hate for Hillary because they don't want a democrat in power. You bet it

is about the issues. Who here really thinks there are no GOP paid trolls on the DU? None? And they are seething.

[DonCoquixote]

83. issues

so willingness to go to war with Iran and Syria stopped being an issue?
So the Tpp stopped being an issue?
So Keystone stopped being an issue?

If those three items are not issues, than perhaps you can explain what an issue is, and why these are NOT issues?

[morningfog]

85. You are sorely confused.

If someone finds a candidate's positions vile, the means to defeat the candidate justify the ends. Duh. It's politics. It's zero sum. In a contest there will be one winner and the rest lose.

I want Hillary to lose.

[840high]

86. For me it's all about

issues and trust. I don't trust her anymore.

[Vattel]

88. I don't take her "across-the-board progressive platform" too seriously, especially because it

seems clear that she has no moral qualms about being dishonest for political reasons. Her record is apt to be a much more reliable predictor of what she would do as president. And that record is way too militaristic and anti-human-rights and anti-bill-of-rights and pro-incarceration and anti-immigrant and pro-Wall-Street for me.