Bernie responds to Clinton attack via Jennifer Epstein Bloomberg Politics correspondent

[Luminous Animal]

And, as reported by Jennifer, he elaborates:

Jennifer Epstein ‏@jeneps 15m15 minutes ago
Sanders on pro-Clinton super PAC's attack on him: "It was the kind of onslaught I expected to see from the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson"

https://twitter.com/jeneps/with_replies

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Is it a Hillary attack or is it a Super-PAC that supports Hillary?

It's my understanding that they aren't allowed to coordinate with the candidate, but I'm sure that's unlikely.

I'm just hearing about this now.

Does anyone have more info on this?

[arcane1]

3. They can coordinate as long as they limit their activities to the internet.

More info on the "internet exception" here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251594504#post57

[Cali_Democrat]

14. OK I just read the article

Where is the evidence of coordination between the Super PAC and Hillary?

It's certainly not in the article. The email being circulated was created by the Super PAC, not Hillary's campaign.

[arcane1]

20. It would otherwise make no sense to limit themselves to the internet.

Coordination is the only advantage to that limitation. Whether Hillary personally approved this smear is unknown.

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Again....

There's is no evidence that Hillary's campaign is cooridnating with the Super PAC and there's certainly no evidence that Hillary's campaign is behind the latest email which was sent out.

It's important not to jump to conclusions before all the facts are in.

I'll wait to see all the evidence before making any judgements.

It's possible they're coordinating? Perhaps. But I haven't seen evidence of it.

[morningfog]

22. The coordination is old news:

(I)n a novel move for a super PAC, Correct the Record will both accept unlimited contributions and coordinate directly with the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party organs.

“Going forward, Correct the Record will work in support of Hillary Clinton’s candidacy for president, aggressively responding to false attacks and misstatements of the Secretary’s exemplary record,” said its new president, Brad Woodhouse, who headed the former parent organization American Bridge.

Super PACs are typically prohibited by law from coordinating with candidates, but Correct the Record will not be a typical super PAC. The group will not run ads, but instead does all of its work online, which it says will allow it to coordinate with the Clinton campaign.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-gets-another-super-pac#56803

It was discussed at length here. And it is likely illegal, just not yet challenged. Hillary should be ashamed, as should her supporters.

[arcane1]

28. "As president I will reform the finances of every campaign. After this one"

[daleanime]

41. Yeahup.....

of course I will.

[roguevalley]

54. she has the responsibility to come out and firmly, unequivocably disavow them. The longer she

doesn't, the more likely it is they are colluding. I lean toward the latter.

If she wants this to be about issues she needs to put this down NOW. Otherwise, she will once again victimize herself by perceptions if she doesn't even if she isn't coordinating. Again, a tin ear for politics.

[arcane1]

58. "If she wants this to be about issues" is a pretty damned huge "if" n/t

[roguevalley]

60. I agree. This is going to be about whatever it takes for her and it will in the offset only

highlight bernie's integrity.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

120. I thought Hillary wasn't going to attack Bernie

[Admiral Loinpresser]

119. Not even Stephen Colbert used that loophole.

Of course, Jon Stewart's office was just down the hall.

[99Forever]

25. The good ol' "plausible deniability" ruse, eh?

That ought you help with that trustworthiness rating.

[arcane1]

26. From May 2015: "Hillary Clinton plans to coordinate directly with super PAC"

Hillary Clinton's campaign intends to coordinate directly with a newly formed super PAC able to receive unlimited donations, according to a Washington Post report.

-snip-


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-plans-to-coordinate-directly-with-super-pac/

[Cali_Democrat]

29. Like I said...

...coordination is possible, but I haven't seen evidence that Hillary's campaign is ultimately behind the email.

[arcane1]

31. It's not possible, it's intended n/t

[morningfog]

33. The cognitive dissonance is hilarious. They know its wrong but don't have the spine to own it

or defend it. Pathetic.

[morningfog]

32. You have to be fucking kidding. L O FUCKING L.

The PAC was set up as a coordinating PAC. It is either in coordination or it isn't.

This is why the laws changed. You can't have a PAC that coordinates with the candidate all of the time, except when they do something especially nasty.

It is a coordinating PAC or it isn't. And this one is. Suck it up, accept it, embrace it. HIllary is nasty.

[MissDeeds]

46. Yep

The Teflon candidacy isn't going to work. People are on to her and the way she operates, that's one of the reasons HRC has "untrustworthy" issues. Very bad move. I fully expect this will come back to bite her.

[jeff47]

38. So they literally announce that they will be coordinating with this PAC

and you think that means they aren't coordinating with this PAC.

That's some pretty bad desperation.

[passiveporcupine]

44. do you think they would publish it?

That wouldn't be very clever, and we all know Hillary is a clever woman.

[LondonReign2]

69. Nothing short of video evidence of the actual meeting with Hillary approving it will do!

[Fred Sanders]

84. Who needs evidence when the world of speculation is wide open? SuperPac envy, maybe?

[LondonReign2]

88. I'm convinced Cheney didn't out Valerie Plame either

I mean, there was no evidence, right?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

87. Dishonest people come to the conclusions they want to come to.

[virtualobserver]

34. so the coordinating Super PAC abruptly starts operating as a loose cannon

please


as if anything occurs in the carefully scripted Hillary Team without approval.

[tblue37]

67. She needs to come out loud and hard against such smears and demand the the group

NOT do that again.

I doubt she will, but I sure hope she does and that they feel obliged to cut it out.

[pocoloco]

73. Get much sand in ears when burying head?

Curious minds would like to know.

[LondonReign2]

5. Both

It is a Super-PAC that the Clinton campaign is coordinating with, due to the loophole that doesn't specifically disallow coordination with an "online only" Super-PAC.

[morningfog]

10. It's the PAC with which Hillary coordinates, so no distinction.

[Android3.14]

48. Did you watch Colbert and Stewart on this issue?

Coordination is such a slippery word, it actually doesn't mean any sort of restriction.

[winter is coming]

51. I wish Comedy Central would do a clip show of those segments.

They really exposed how exploitable superPACs are.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. Has Hillary condemned it and issued an apology to Sanders for it?

[Autumn]

2. Wow. Bern

[Fred Sanders]

4. Superpacs speak for themselves....the headline is purposely misleading...of course.

Clinton has NOT attacked Sanders! Or vice versa.

Full stop!!

Apparently that is upsetting to some folks.....so what?

[LondonReign2]

6. Incorrect. See posts above

[Fred Sanders]

7. Incorrect, again. See facts everywhere. See another opinion post that has Superpac in the headline.

It is so obvious, why bother defending the distortion and false attribution?

All this kind of posting does, and will do for the next year, is make the money flooding in even more valuable to distort the political process.

[LondonReign2]

8. It is a Super-PAC the Clinton campaign is coordinating with

What do you think is false?

[Fred Sanders]

11. She coordinates? Evidence needed. And what has Clinton actually said about attacking each other???

I have lots of evidence of that!

[LondonReign2]

17. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251594504#post31

[Fred Sanders]

81. Evidence of THIS coordination....still zero. It is the OTHER party that needs no evidence, remember?

[LondonReign2]

86. Sigh

I wish you the best success in convincing yourself that Hillary had nothing to do with this.

[morningfog]

27. You are wrong. Here is a link to help you understand.

I am sure you will now let us know that what HIllary is doing is wrong. Go ahead.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-gets-another-super-pac#56803

[Fred Sanders]

83. An MSNBC video of yore is not evidence! On THIS allegation there is ZERO evidence, which is now

clear enough given the responses.

[morningfog]

89. What a load of shit! I understand your embarassment with Hillary here.

It's shameful. But the PAC was set up to coordinate with her campaign directly. THAT IS NOT IN DISPUTE.

You cannot now claim that some part of the coordinated PAC is not coordinated. That is some twisted double think, even for Hillary folk.

[Fred Sanders]

98. For Sanders folks now resorting to "shit", I ditto the thinking.

[morningfog]

100. You aren't being honest, but what's new.

[Fred Sanders]

101. Where is the email? Why is the main piece missing? And where is the evidence countering the facts of the matter down thread?

Email not even sent by the SuperPac, but just one person's response to a question request.....Honesty...word!

Where is the email??

Has anyone posted it or the original email requesting a response by Brock?

[morningfog]

102. I get it, you don't trust the Hillary Campaign when they said

they were coordinating with CTR.

I don't trust her either.

[Fred Sanders]

103. What I get is a lot of supporters have been fooled again into histrionics over another half-baked article.

[morningfog]

104. I can't wait to hear Hillary disavow Brock and CTR.

Yeah, that won't happen. You're stuck here. Your candidate just got nasty and you know it. That is why you want to deny her involvement. But I know your type. Once you can no longer deny it, you'll swallow her newly minted talking points and puke them up again. You'll embrace the nasty tactic, won't you?

Do you actually have the gumption to state your opinion on (1) PAC coordination and (2) this kind of attack on Sanders? BEFORE Hillary tells you what to think?

[Fred Sanders]

105. Please proceed....the whole article is being debunked....I get it. Frustrating.

[morningfog]

106. So no position? Thought so.

[arcane1]

107. But it's being debunked!!1

Somewhere

[morningfog]

108. What they meant was: I'm waiting for talking points!!

[frylock]

112. Debunked by whom? Correct the Record?

[arcane1]

114. It's getting close to 24 hours now and they haven't tried to correct this record yet

Not sure what they're waiting for.

[frylock]

118. Fred has flipped the script. Now we're attacking Brock..

the level of denial coming from this group is fucking astounding.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=596892

[frylock]

116. You're in luck. Here's a video of Brock talking about the email right now..

well, not so much talking as gasping like a grouper. Note that he didn't dispute the email, or it's contents. Ball is in your court, Fred.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251596835

[bunnies]

52. Apparently Clinton "evolved" on not attacking Sanders.

Surprise!

[arcane1]

53. Letting her minions do it for her, using right-wing techniques n/t

[bunnies]

57. Who in their right mind attacks someone for helping the poor?

Next they'll be saying that Hillary knew *nothing* about this. Bullshit. Same old same old.

[arcane1]

59. "Moderates" apparently do.

[bunnies]

63. If it serves them. Apparently.

Glad Im not in that camp.

[arcane1]

64. Amen to that!

[demwing]

71. Meet the new Clinton

same as the old Clinton

[AlbertCat]

78. She coordinates?

Maybe she doesn't coordinate with her own campaign. Could that be a possibility?




But I'm not gonna play the "I don't like what she hasn't said" game. That's what some groups were doing to Sanders a time ago. It's dumb.

But if her campaign is coordinating AND she doesn't even know about it..... I don't think so....

[morningfog]

12. You are dead wrong. Hillary coordinates with this PAC.

[Luminous Animal]

9. "Correct the Record" the Super Pac in question has claimed, multiple times in many

media venues that it is free to coordinate with the candidate

. The group will not run ads, but instead does all of its work online, which it says will allow it to coordinate with the Clinton campaign.

The so-called “Internet exemption” was not intended to be used this way (it was created before the existence of super PACs), the Washington Post notes, but experts say Correct the Record is unlikely to face reprisal.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-gets-another-super-pac#56803

[Report1212]

39. This is hilarious

Her campaign chairman and her husband have both been fundraising for her Super PACs. So youre telling me Camp Clinton is giving a bunch of money to a group that is doing stuff they dont approve of?

Okay.

[AlbertCat]

82. the headline is purposely misleading

No it isn't.

"Clinton" obviously refers to her campaign and supporters. I never assumed it meant her personally.


Using the candidate's name as an adjective and not their personal name is done all the time.

[morningfog]

13. Great response.

[Hollingsworth]

15. The sting and the bern.

Great reply by Sanders, that ought to cool some jets down on the Hillary false rumor team.

[99Forever]

16. Another huge unforced error by Camp Weathervane.

That's gonna leave a mark.

[pocoloco]

76. You know they must have a truckload of K-Y Jelly!!

[askew]

18. This was such a stupid attack against Bernie.

There are things you could hit him on (immigration, gun control) just like with every candidate. But, this was just a dumb attack. No one is going to care about this. It's like they think it is 1994.

[Hollingsworth]

19. I was thinking that very thing a few moments ago. It's like the Hillary team in stuck in time

and still hope the old ways are in play with their ridiculous lies.

This is not the 90s, nor the 50s (that tupperware thing? holey moley what a stupid idea).

[arcane1]

30. It baffles me who the intended audience for this would be.

[morningfog]

35. Hill shills. They are going to get gutter nasty.

[virtualobserver]

36. She is trying to keep Dick Cheney from voting for Bernie

[jeff47]

40. Sending out talking points. We'll see them in DU posts in the near future. (nt)

[LondonReign2]

72. What? You don't think trying to link Bernie to

a dead South American that stopped being a boogeyman some time ago, and a British guy that 99.98% of Americans have never heard of is going to be wildly effective??

[frylock]

113. Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow..

don't start thinking about tomorrow, while they're at it!

[WillyT]

23. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[Truprogressive85]

24. Correct the Record

Its a Super Pac lead by David Brock that supports HRC

I have seen HRC supporters use correct the record website now all of sudden have amnesia

[beam me up scottie]

37. Righteous.

I'm glad Bernie's getting in front of the smears from the Swift Boaters for Hillary PACs.

[lark]

42. Hillary or someone close to her needs to let the PACS know to lay off.

I'm being optimistic that she wasn't aware of this and wouldn't condone it. I'm also aware that she may actually not to put off by these attacks on Bernie? Don't know, but do think it should stop.

[Cheese Sandwich]

43. "Dead communist dictator?"

That comment disappoints me.

Hugo Chavez? Last I checked that guy was elected in a clean election. That comment is annoying.

[arcane1]

50. Yeah, that's a better description of the media-created "strongman" than the real guy.

[MisterP]

55. I HOPE he was just referring to the depiction that they were using

especially since he applauded the FSLN in the 80s while the TNR types were dittoing Reagan and he got plenty of Venezuelan oil for VT

but not only is FP where all sides "talk the talk," it's how the White House wisemen thwart reform of any flavor and where they rack up debts that come due and hobble any social programs

fortunately Sanders is eminently responsive

[Enthusiast]

45. Kicked and recommended!

Well done!

[bunnies]

47. One would *think* that only a republican would attack Sanders for helping poor people.

This is beyond disgusting. Good for Bernie.

[left-of-center2012]

56. Let the poor freeze to death?

Is that what HC supporters propose?

[bunnies]

61. Apparently. Because Chavez! or something.

IIRC most if not all of the New England states took that oil. As did NYC. Someone is either really, really stupid or trying to take her out from within. She should be embarrassed.

[imthevicar]

90. Lets face HRC is a DINO!

[MissDeeds]

49. Looks like Bernie anticipated this kind of crap

and is prepared to effectively deal with it.

Give 'em hell, Bernie!!!!

[arcane1]

62. He knew from the get-go he would be outspent, and attacked by the powers he threatens

Meanwhile the Clinton campaign is sounding just like how Fox News would smear him.

David Brock just changes bosses, not jobs.

[laureloak]

65. If he is the nominee he WILL take the money.

[demwing]

70. If Hillary is the nominee she WILL oppose the TPP

See, I can make up ridiculous shit just as easily as you can!

[Uncle Joe]

66. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Luminous Animal.

[Avalux]

74. Fantastic response Bernie.

He's right - this is a GOP tactic.

[senz]

75. Look at it this way: Clinton attacks are toughening Bernie up for the GE

when he'll encounter even lower, more disgusting lies and verbal assaults.

So I suppose we can thank them!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. I'm sure Hillary will denounce the SuperPac and return their money.

Well....maybe not because she'll be too busy talking about the corrosive influence of money on politics.....while begging for more corporate money.

[restorefreedom]

111. +1 nt

[dpatbrown]

79. Not a second

I don't buy it, for a second, that a candidate isn't alerted to what their super pacs are doing. Hillary Clinton needs to call for an immediate cessation to ANY pacs that are raising money for her, to stay out of the gutter. To say there is no connection with any pacs is a blatant lie.

[Dont call me Shirley]

80. No doubt the two secretly support her.

"It was the kind of onslaught I expected to see from the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson"

[sabrina 1]

91. Why don't they talk about issues? All they DO is try to find ways to attack

Bernie? The more they do this the better for Bernie

[arcane1]

92. She will lose on the issues. Sanders and O'Malley both are light-years beyond on issues

That's why she keeps stealing their rhetoric

[sabrina 1]

94. Yes, but do they think people are not noticing this? The fact that we do have

two candidates now in the race who are light years ahead of her re Issues, and ARE discussing them, only highlights these nasty, dirty games designed NOT to talk about issues.

I can't think of a more losing tactic. The people are sick to death of these distractions, they want to talk about issues.

So like I said, let her keep doing this, the more she does it, the more people will see that's all SHE is doing.

And these attacks are so OLD. I mean at least move into the 21st Century. Red Baiting, seriously in today's world???

[arcane1]

95. I think they seriously believed Sanders would be gone by now, a grumpy, dismissed racist

Thus holding off on the debates so the take-down could do its work. Now that we're getting close to debate time, and his numbers are looking so much better, they have to run an actual campaign against him, and do Whatever It Takes to do so.

Plus, he got some of those Liberty students to agree with some of his ideas, hence the right-wing techniques now.

With all that money the Clinton campaign spent on polls, it seems they aren't liking the results

[FloridaBlues]

93. You don't have any proof HRC did this

This is small potatoes if you get this crazy over this small stuff wait till the gop gets ahold of him

[frylock]

115. blahblahblah GOP blahblah..

meanwhile in Hillaryland, comparing voting records is construed as an attack.

[morningfog]

121. Yes, we expect it from the GOP. Not from the Dem

who says they weren't going to do this kind of thing.

To be fair, I never believed Hillary. I knew she would get nasty when cornered.

[d_legendary1]

96. Why doesn't HRC just hire Karl Rove?

It'd be much more effective and no one would suspect a thing (at least media wise).

[Fairgo]

97. Let the master respond

There is a definitive resolution to this. Coordination creates a fiduciary relationship and a means of influence. If HRC disavows the attack and takes steps to frame future work On her behalf, then this has been an oversight. If not, then the act stands with her tacit endorsement. Respondeat superior...Let the master respond. I, for one, am interested in hearing her out.

[sadoldgirl]

99. Yes, his response was reasonable ,

and while I don't have much, I sent another small
amount. However, since I expect a lot of more
onslaughts on Bernie, I don't know whether I
can keep this up.

[Babel_17]

109. Spot on answer from Sanders

Now let's hear the response to that from the Clinton camp. They may not like the terrain they're fighting on, but they picked this battle.

[frylock]

110. It was the kind of onslaught I expected to see from Hillary Clinton.

[portlander23]

117. dark money