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gobears10

(310 posts)
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 02:58 AM Sep 2015

Why am I not supporting Hillary Clinton? Because she's opposed single-payer throughout her career

One huge reason why I'm supporting Bernie Sanders and not Hillary Clinton is because she opposes single-payer healthcare. Here's what she said on the issue:

You know, I have thought about this, as you might guess, for 15 years and I never seriously considered a single payer system...So I think if you look at most public opinion surveys, even from groups of people who you would think would be pretty positive towards single payer, Americans have a very skeptical attitude. They don’t really know that Medicare is a single payer system. They don’t really think about that. They think about these foreign countries that they hear all these stories about, whether they’re true or not, which they’re often not. And so talking about single payer really is a conversation ender for most Americans, because then they become very nervous about socialized medicine and all the rest of this. So I never really seriously considered it.

Full article: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/march/hillary_clinton_on_s.php

Hillary also attacked Obama from the right in 2008 because he previously supported single-payer in 2003.

Moreover, Bernie Senators met with Hillary in the 1990s to talk about single-payer healthcare reform, and she completely rebuked his proposal:

They got their meeting at the White House that month, and the two doctors laid out the case for single-payer to the first lady. “She said, ‘You make a convincing case, but is there any force on the face of the earth that could counter the hundreds of millions of the dollars the insurance industry would spend fighting that?’” recalled Himmelstein. “And I said, “How about the president of the United States actually leading the American people?’ and she said, ‘Tell me something real.’ ”

Full article: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/17/1394018/-The-difference-between-Bernie-Sanders-and-Hillary-Clinton-in-one-paragraph

Single-payer is really a huge issue for me. Despite the modest gains of the ACA, 35 million Americans don't have healthcare. Even if all the states expanded Medicaid, there would be a huge coverage gap. Premiums, co-pays, etc., would continue to rise due to mergers between insurance providers and healthcare providers. Our for-profit multi-payer system creates a lot of waste: administrative costs, overhead, costs in advertising and marketing, and costs to generate profits to satisfy CEOs and shareholders. A single-payer system would get rid of all these costs, cover everyone, improve primary and preventative care, and capitalize on economies of scale to negotiate lower prices for prescription drugs and medical services. Healthcare delivery could still be privatized, like it is in Canada.

I haven't heard anything from Hillary lately about moving toward a single-payer, Medicare-for-All system. Or even adding a strong robust public option and encouraging states to experiment with single-payer (as the Congressional Progressive Caucus has called for). We continue to have this wildly inefficient system in which we pay a ridiculous amount for healthcare, but don't get much out of it, and it's a chimera with third party, employer based healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, the VA, and people with no healthcare whatsoever. The ACA in many ways was a form of corporate welfare, mandating people to purchase insurance company products. It doesn't go far enough.

Hillary's 1993 reform plan, in my opinion, was very weak. Moreover, on the campaign trail, she's focused on reforming the existing system, often calling for market-based reforms:

Hillary Clinton said Wednesday that she wants to build on “what works” in the president’s health care law, suggesting that she may be open to allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines and saying that she would fight for lower prescription drug prices.

Source: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-health-care-policy-small-business-owners-iowa

I don't think I can support Hillary unless she comes out in favor of at least a strong public option that can morph into single-payer over time if the American people choose it over private insurance. Until then, I'll be supporting Bernie Sanders in the primary because he's consistently fought for single-payer, Medicare-for-All healthcare throughout his political career. It is the system that most advanced nations adhere to, and they rank much higher than the U.S. on international rankings of healthcare systems. It also helps businesses too, especially small ones, b/c they don't have to worry about spending money on covering everyone. Our healthcare system has systemic problems, but the Democratic Party establishment is unwilling in addressing it.

I'll be supporting Bernie Sanders for President, because HRC hasn't come out in favor of single-payer and/or a very strong public option.

Also, Hillary Clinton's 1993 plan was not a single-payer proposal. It largely revolved around regulating the employer-based, third-party system that we have through establishing "regional alliances" similar to the healthcare exchanges under the Affordable Care Act. The 1993 Clinton plan relied on employer mandates. She tried to work with the insurance companies, but they eventually fired back against the plan.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993#Criticism

Hillary never supported or worked for single-payer. I know people who were involved in health care in the Clinton years, and worked hard on Prop 186 in California, which is a ballot initiative trying to implement single payer in CA in 1994. No one could not even get Hillary to publicly acknowledge the single payer concept: it just wasn't part of her conversation. It was very frustrating.

Hillary's plan, created by her task force with lots of insurance industry reps, was called 'managed competition.' It's fairly well described in other posts here, and does not differ too much from Obamacare, really. The Republicans opposed HillaryCare, of course, but they mostly just watched the majority Democrats squabble about it. She couldn't even get it through Democrat-controlled committees to get it to a vote on the floor of the House when the Democrats were in control. Then, once Republicans took over the House in the middle of Clinton's first term, the issue was simply dead until after the election of President Obama. Long wait.

Congressional Democrats who were more progressive leaning opposed the more moderate Clinton plan, and pushed for single-payer.

Although universal coverage and other basic principles of President Clinton's health care plan have been widely applauded on Capitol Hill, a brigade of congressional Democrats is fighting for a dark-horse alternative: a government-financed system modeled after Canada's.

Already backed by a third of the House's Democratic majority, the alternative is known as "single-payer" because the government would pay virtually all the medical bills now footed by the tangle of insurance companies, businesses, workers, governments and individuals.

Proponents--led by Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.), a former psychiatrist--assert that the single-payer proposal not only covers everybody simpler and faster than Clinton's complex "managed competition" scheme but also holds down costs better, provides more choice for patients and doctors and assures quality care.


Source: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-09/news/mn-43945_1_health-care-plan

Hillary also opposed single-payer on her 2008 campaign website:

Source: http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Hillary_Clinton

She seems to be adamantly opposed to non-profit single-payer national health insurance,
as indicated by the words on her campaign web site. See below:

9/17/2007: ” … Now I know my Republican opponents will try to equate health care for all Americans with government run health care. Well don’t let them fool us again. This is not government run. There will be no new bureaucracy. You can keep the doctors you know and trust. You keep the insurance you have if you like it. But this plan expands personal choice and increases competition to keep costs down.
— from Senator Clinton’s campaign website


Here's another article outlining her opposition to single-payer, entitled: "Hillary Clinton Likes Obamacare, And Opposes Single-Payer Health Insurance"

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

Excerpt:
Hillary Clinton has confirmed, to a paying audience of 20,000 sellers of electronic health records systems, that she supports Obamacare, and opposes single-payer health insurance.

Speaking to a closed-to-the-press meeting of the "HIMSS14" (Healthcare Information and Management Systems Conference 2014) in Orlando Florida on February 26th, she condemned the Canadian and other nations' single-payer healthcare systems by saying, "We don't have one size fits all; our country is quite diverse. What works in New York City won't work in Albuquerque." The presumption is that what works in Canada cannot work here, that local control must trump everything in order to fix what's wrong with American health care.


Here's a video in which Hillary disses Obama for having previously supported single-payer in 2003:



In it, Hillary attacks Obama for having expressed support for single-payer healthcare in 2003. She frames it as if supporting single-payer is a bad thing. So no, I am not wrong in my facts. She rejects single-payer, and says her plan includes promoting individual responsibility, mandating employers to grant coverage, and retaining Medicare and Medicaid. She doesn't call for getting rid of profit in the health insurance system, or pushing for Medicare-for-All, which we so desperately need to do.
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why am I not supporting Hillary Clinton? Because she's opposed single-payer throughout her career (Original Post) gobears10 Sep 2015 OP
Then what was the plan proposed in 1993? RandySF Sep 2015 #1
Did you read my OP? gobears10 Sep 2015 #3
That is the main reason I don't support Clinton either. PatrickforO Sep 2015 #2
yup yup gobears10 Sep 2015 #4
Former Sen. Max Baucus, the darling of corporate America, brought Big Pharma to lobby Obama. SusanaMontana41 Sep 2015 #7
Max Baucus screwed us hard kenfrequed Sep 2015 #24
How did he get away with treating it as "wanting a pony" ? TubbersUK Sep 2015 #28
Baucus wielded a big stick. SusanaMontana41 Sep 2015 #30
Jesus H. SusanaMontana41 Sep 2015 #29
This, and her support of every war. tecelote Sep 2015 #5
This is only one of many reasons as to why I don't support Hillary. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #6
Single payer is the only way out of this status quo health care quagmire. Enthusiast Sep 2015 #8
Hillary's supporters on DU are also against single payer universally guaranteed health care. delrem Sep 2015 #9
Seems to hold true in many cases. Juicy_Bellows Sep 2015 #10
My observation can be extended to EVERY issue of importance. delrem Sep 2015 #12
You'll get little to no argument from me. I agree. Juicy_Bellows Sep 2015 #13
I just wrote this satiric post re. "electability" delrem Sep 2015 #16
I awarded you the Stephen Colbert award for that. A lot of people did not get him, either. djean111 Sep 2015 #18
No they aren't brooklynite Sep 2015 #23
Nixon proposed a plan where ALL employers provide their workers with healthcare. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #11
But not all people are employees, and Nixon's plan was a cop out. delrem Sep 2015 #14
Just saying, it shows how far the Republican party has fallen..... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #20
Medicare + Supplemental Insurance PADemD Sep 2015 #15
Exactly. And Medicare could do it for less because profit would be excised. Vinca Sep 2015 #17
She's a realist and she's committed to working within the system. Rose Siding Sep 2015 #19
She gets campaign cash from that system to do just that. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #21
It's very unrealistic to think that the American working class can continue to limp along Maedhros Sep 2015 #26
LOL gobears10 Sep 2015 #31
hillary is a corporatist restorefreedom Sep 2015 #22
Blankfein, speaking for the plutocracy and Wall $treet hifiguy Sep 2015 #25
Makes sense. One issue voters are usually in the minority upaloopa Sep 2015 #27
i don't care if i'm in the minority or not gobears10 Nov 2015 #32

gobears10

(310 posts)
3. Did you read my OP?
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 03:07 AM
Sep 2015
Also, Hillary Clinton's 1993 plan was not a single-payer proposal. It largely revolved around regulating the employer-based, third-party system that we have through establishing "regional alliances" similar to the healthcare exchanges under the Affordable Care Act. The 1993 Clinton plan relied on employer mandates. She tried to work with the insurance companies, but they eventually fired back against the plan.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993#Criticism

Hillary never supported or worked for single-payer. I know people who were involved in health care in the Clinton years, and worked hard on Prop 186 in California, which is a ballot initiative trying to implement single payer in CA in 1994. No one could not even get Hillary to publicly acknowledge the single payer concept: it just wasn't part of her conversation. It was very frustrating.

Hillary's plan, created by her task force with lots of insurance industry reps, was called 'managed competition.' It's fairly well described in other posts here, and does not differ too much from Obamacare, really. The Republicans opposed HillaryCare, of course, but they mostly just watched the majority Democrats squabble about it. She couldn't even get it through Democrat-controlled committees to get it to a vote on the floor of the House when the Democrats were in control. Then, once Republicans took over the House in the middle of Clinton's first term, the issue was simply dead until after the election of President Obama. Long wait.

Congressional Democrats who were more progressive leaning opposed the more moderate Clinton plan, and pushed for single-payer.

PatrickforO

(14,570 posts)
2. That is the main reason I don't support Clinton either.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 03:06 AM
Sep 2015

That 'Tell me something real' answer made me sick. Clinton is little more than a poll driven wind sock, empty inside and relying on focus groups to tell her the sky is blue.

Oh, she'll be all for single payer when it's obvious Americans overwhelmingly want it (and a growing majority do now), but Sanders - hey, he's been for it all along.

gobears10

(310 posts)
4. yup yup
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 03:12 AM
Sep 2015

Sanders has been for it all along.

Barack Obama supported single-payer in 2003, but then changed his mind, and became more moderate. But even Obama still admits if he were building a healthcare system from scratch, he'd probably design a single-payer system. He's also admitted that single-payer systems work well in other countries.

Hillary never supported single-payer, and dissed it on occasion.

SusanaMontana41

(3,233 posts)
7. Former Sen. Max Baucus, the darling of corporate America, brought Big Pharma to lobby Obama.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:14 AM
Sep 2015

And Obama caved. As usual.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
24. Max Baucus screwed us hard
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:43 PM
Sep 2015

He didn't even allow discussion of a public option in the finance committee.

I complained bitterly about it on this board at the time but oddly enough he had his defenders here that accused all of us that wanted the public option as "wanting a pony."

My gods was that disenheartening.

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
28. How did he get away with treating it as "wanting a pony" ?
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 05:35 PM
Sep 2015

Moving to a new model must surely be worth serious consideration given what's known about comparative international costs.

For instance, universal/free at the point of delivery healthcare in the UK costs much less as a proportion of GDP than partial healthcare in the US - the figures are 9.1% and 17.1% respectively.

There are special interests involved of course and transition wouldn't be easy but the prize is big, too big to casually dismiss one would have thought.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS





Uncle Joe

(58,354 posts)
6. This is only one of many reasons as to why I don't support Hillary.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:06 AM
Sep 2015

If I wasn't sleepy I could probably list 15 or 20 and stay up a few hours debating them, but your OP works for now.

Thanks for the thread, gobears.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
8. Single payer is the only way out of this status quo health care quagmire.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:22 AM
Sep 2015

There will be winners and losers. The health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry will have to take a hit. Also, those that profit from providing medical services will be losers. It is a sacrifice they must make. Period.

Hey, consider the millions of us in manufacturing that had our jobs sacrificed for the profit of a few. We had no choice in the matter. I offer the same deal for the the health insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry.

Give the fat cats a taste of their own medicine, so to speak.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
9. Hillary's supporters on DU are also against single payer universally guaranteed health care.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:33 AM
Sep 2015

Going by my memory of OPs.

They are all, always, on that right-wing extremist side.

In general, if a DU poster doesn't like socialism in any way - is diametrically opposed to e.g. the Bolivarian Revolution in Latin America - then that poster will be flying Hillary Rodham Clinton's flag. Such a poster will be indifferent to the suffering caused by the coup that overthrew democracy in Honduras, under Hillary's watch. Such a poster will be indifferent to the suffering of the Libyan people, that happened after Hillary's decisions. Such a poster will be a neocon, by nature.

There can't be anything clearer than the decision to be made by Dems, in this primary.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
12. My observation can be extended to EVERY issue of importance.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 05:54 AM
Sep 2015

In every case, the Hillary Clinton team is on the extreme right.

Where they pull this "women's issues and family and apple pie" from, I don't know, but it isn't from anything historical.
Hillary Clinton is a neocon right-wing conservative politician from the old school, who has extreme difficulty "evolving" even on social issues that are stone cold obvious to everyone of good heart.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
13. You'll get little to no argument from me. I agree.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 06:02 AM
Sep 2015

There are some people that have all their cards on 'electability' but that ship is taking water and her campaign seems to be ready and willing to drill holes in the bailing buckets.

If I'm playing in the dance band of the Titanic, I'm going to stop playing music and get my candy ass to a lifeboat, pronto.

EDIT - this is where I would link to Harry Chapin but I will go to bed instead. Cheers!

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
18. I awarded you the Stephen Colbert award for that. A lot of people did not get him, either.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 08:26 AM
Sep 2015

heh indeed.

brooklynite

(94,503 posts)
23. No they aren't
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 04:29 PM
Sep 2015

They're opposed to advocating for single payer TO THE EXCLUSION of alternatives that have a chance of passing.

Sticking up for your principles wouldn't have been so great in 2010 if the result was that we passed nothing and left 11 M people with no coverage at all.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
14. But not all people are employees, and Nixon's plan was a cop out.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 06:10 AM
Sep 2015

Nixon's plan only puts employees into a more subservient role, with this whip.
It's a bad, bad idea.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
20. Just saying, it shows how far the Republican party has fallen.....
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 01:06 PM
Sep 2015

They would NEVER put healthcare on the backs of corporations today.

PADemD

(4,482 posts)
15. Medicare + Supplemental Insurance
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 06:15 AM
Sep 2015

Currently, Medicare pays 80% for a little over $100 monthly.

Supplemental insurance pays for 20% for a little over $140 monthly.

Why can't the monthly supplemental be paid into Medicare so they can cover 100% ?

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
26. It's very unrealistic to think that the American working class can continue to limp along
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 05:08 PM
Sep 2015

with only the most minimal of health care options.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
25. Blankfein, speaking for the plutocracy and Wall $treet
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 05:03 PM
Sep 2015

has said that the Big Money is "comfortable" with both Jeb and HRH.

What does that tell you?

Nothing good, I suggest, just more of the same old corporatist bullshit.

gobears10

(310 posts)
32. i don't care if i'm in the minority or not
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:09 AM
Nov 2015

it's something i care passionately about. hillary doesn't have the right position for me on this issue, while bernie does. so i'll support him.

if hillary changes her mind, and comes out in favor of either single-payer or a strong public option, i'll strongly consider her

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