A real issue of implementing single payer

[dsc]

that isn't often discussed. Many of us have our insurance costs substantially paid by our employers (in my case I get all but a very small fraction of my insurance paid that way). In Vermont, the single payer system would have increased personal income taxes by a flat 9.5 percent (person paying 6 percent now pays 15.5 percent after). For me that would be an over 5000 dollar tax increase for an expense largely covered by my employer. And most employers wouldn't be passing that savings on to us since they write off the expense themselves and their taxes would also increase by 11.5 percent. I know the NC General Assembly would be using their savings to fund further tax cuts not increase teacher pay. Until you divorce insurance from employment much of the savings from single payer will redound to employers while the costs will redound to employees.

[PoliticAverse]

1. Indeed, I was sorry to see the ACA didn't help divorce insurance from employment

more. A related issue with the Vermont plan was many companies employ workers that commute from out of state
and provide health insurance for them, the Vermont plan would have created certain problems for those companies.

[dsc]

2. to be fair that wouldn't be a problem in a national system.

[FreakinDJ]

3. My cost went up under ACA

And my coverage became more restrictive

The bar was set too low

[PoliticAverse]

5. The ACA didn't really have significant cost-reduction components and

the penalty for not having insurance was set too low to force enough healthy people to
sign-up and increase the pool covering the new unhealthy people getting insurance.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. It is cheaper for my mother in law to pay the penalty than to pay for insurance so that is what

she does.

[FreakinDJ]

13. If everyone signed up the cost would still go up

The ACA was thoroughly colluded by the Healthcare Industry

The only thing it did was creat a Win-fall for stockholders

[LWolf]

4. Bernie is calling for Medicare for all.

https://berniesanders.com/medicare-for-all/

Bernie is on board with HR 676:

Washington D.C. (July 29, 2010) – Representative John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI), Representative Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), and Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) are today reaffirming their efforts to provide all Americans with health care that would allow access to the doctor of choice without premiums, co-pays or deductibles.

The three Congressional leaders on Medicare for All health care sent an open letter calling on Americans to build on the momentum created by debate and passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to make Medicare for All a reality. They also renewed the call for states to take the lead on passing Medicare for All legislation.

http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=243c7e06-19b9-b4b1-12fa-20c29b6101af

HR 676 addresses your concern:

Business Will Pay Less

In 2006, health insurers charged employers an average of $11,500 for a health plan for a family of four. On average, the employer paid 74% of this premium, or $8,510 per year. This figure does not include the additional 1.45% payroll tax levied on employers for Medicare. Under H.R. 676, employers would pay a 4.75% payroll tax for all health care costs. For an employee making the median family income of $56,200 per year, the employer would pay about $2,700.

http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm/healthcare

[liberal_at_heart]

7. yes, please. I just found out I owe the hospital $4000. I started having

physical problems(turns out it was either physical symptoms of depression or panic attacks because of the stress of the situation) after my husband had a heart attack. He has Medicare and we have a private insurance plan for him, so he is double covered. I have a private plan but no Medicare, and now I just got a bill for $4000. I can't afford that. I plan on sending them like $20 a month. They can either take it or leave it. I hate our for profit health care. We must have something better.

[yeoman6987]

14. 4000 for a heart attack and other major issues are not

Horrible. Yes paying it is a pain but I predict the service received was in the 10s of thousands at least.

Glad both of you are better.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. No, his bill was not $4000. My bill was $4000. I started having a racing pulse and feeling

faint. They couldn't find anything wrong with me. Then I started having chest pain, stomach pain, headaches. I ended up going to the ER a few times because I was scared. I didn't know what was wrong with me. Eventually they told me I was probably having physical symptoms of depression. After that I stopped going to the ER and just slept for about a week. I think it was just all the stress of my husband having a heart attack, but I was scared. My husband had just had a heart attack, and I was afraid I might be having a heart attack too. I didn't know what was wrong with me. My husband has Medicare and we also have a secondary private insurance plan for him. We haven't received any bills for his heart attack. I also have a private insurance plan but no Medicare, so I get stuck with a $4000 bill.

[dsc]

8. they may well save money

but they likely won't pass that savings on to us.

[LWolf]

9. From the same link

Families Will Pay Less

Currently, the average family of four covered under an employee health plan spends a total of $4,225 on health care annually – $2,713 on premiums and another $1,522 on medical services, drugs and supplies (Employer Health Benefits 2006 Annual Survey, Kaiser Family Foundation and Health Research and Educational Trust; U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Consumer Expenditure Survey.) This figure does not include the additional 1.45% Medicare payroll tax levied on employees. A study by Dean Baker of the Center for Economic Research and Policy concluded that under H.R. 676, a family of four making the median family income of $56,200 per year would pay about $2,700 for all health care costs.

http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm/healthcare

[dsc]

12. So we would save 1535

but pay 5k in taxes. A somewhat better deal but not exactly a great one.

[TexasProgresive]

6. Before I retired and was covered by company provide insurance

I paid $1800 per annum while the company was paying $14,000 per annum. If there were single payer from your figures it would have been a savings totaling about $11,000. This is the heart of the matter, too much money is being drawn off from individuals and companies into health insurance companies and the medical industrial complex.

A RWNJ former co-worker of mine said that Canadian docs were coming to the U.S. to make more money then they could in Canada. I don't know if that is true, but I replied if they got the same level of good pay in the U.S. that they receive in Canada they would stay put unless they liked the weather better in Florida.