So...why don't most progressive and PoC voters support O'Malley?

[Ken Burch]

We keep hearing about how Mr. O'M supposedly addresses the issues that Bernie supposedly doesn't. Yet O'Malley, who is a decent enough guy in a mundane way, has made no impact at all in the polls at this point.

Why isn't he able so far to play the role that Howard Dean played in 2004...that of the "safe" progressive who ties up progressive votes and keeps them from going to the allegedly "unacceptable" progressive (Kucinich then, Bernie now)?

(If Bernie's campaign had collapsed by this point, I'd probably be an O'Malley supporter, btw).

Wondering what the O'Malley people here have to say about this.

[Cheese Sandwich]

1. Speaking only for my own opinion, one reason is because of his abusive policing record in Baltimore

He had tens of thousands of young black men falsely arrested in mass arrests. The NAACP and ACLU actually had to join forces and file a lawsuit against O'Malley and the City to make him stop these arrests

A lot of people credit those policies with creating the atmosphere of abusive policing and community distrust of the cops, all leading up to the death of Freddie Gray and the Baltimore riots of 2015.

Some people say this kind of abusive policing was needed because he was able to bring down some of the crime statistics. But many people who had to deal with the consequences think it was truly atrocious.

There are other reasons but this is the biggest reason.

[Cheese Sandwich]

8. Just for one example, City attorney Marilyn Mosby blames Martin O'Malley for Baltimore violence

So here we have the word of a very knowledgeable and highly qualified woman, city attorney.

What person on this earth would be more qualified to make this judgement ?

City State’s Attorney Marylin Mosby says Baltimore’s violent crime problem stems from what she calls "failed policies" that go back from when Martin O'Malley was mayor of Baltimore.

Mosby was part of a guest panel on Richard Sher's show Square Off on Sunday .

She was joined by interim police commissioner Kevin Davis, chief of surgery at Shock Trauma Thomas Scalea and radio host Clarence Mitchell IV.

Dr. Scalea says he believes the spike in violence is related in part to the riots in April. Mosby argued it goes back even further than that.

Things like the "zero tolerance" policy endorsed by O'Malley, she says, created mistrust in the community.
...

http://www.abc2news.com/news/crime-checker/baltimore-city-crime/marilyn-mosby-blames-martin-omalley-for-violence

[Cheese Sandwich]

9. West Baltimore rep. Jill Carter: Martin O’Malley was "savagely wrong" on crime

I always say it wasn’t just a zero tolerance policy, it was a failed zero tolerance policy. It was a rogue zero tolerance policy. It was commonplace for law enforcement officers to plant a van at the top of a block and conduct a street sweep of everyone they saw outside. And the theory was the more people we arrest, the less crime because no one will be on the street. But what happened is that, at the same time that people were being arrested for virtually nothing, violent crime was able to continue and to expand because the real criminals knew there was no one there to pursue them. The police officers were rated on the number of arrests they made, and everything was stats-driven not people-driven. That really in large part created the culture that exists today.

There were a lot of people in the community, older people especially, who believed that, “Well, it's a good thing. We need to lock up these criminals.” But over time I've noticed a complete change because of the devastation that it's had on people. It's destroyed the ability of many young people to even lead productive lives. Because once that arrest record is there, many people believe, “Oh, it's just a conviction.” But actually no, it's an arrest record, as well, that employers don't really wait to see what the result is. They just say, “OK, you're charged with this crime, and we can find someone else.” The problem is that in Baltimore City, it's becoming more and more difficult to find anyone whatsoever under certain ages and zip codes that doesn't have a criminal record.

Martin O'Malley was not just wrong, but savagely wrong on criminal justice issues.

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/fault-lines/articles/2015/6/12/maryland-delegate-martin-omalley-savagely-wrong-on-criminal-justice.html

[Cheese Sandwich]

11. "A lot of us know the real story of the harm he brought to our city" - Baltimore NAACP President

Washington Post April 25, 2015

As Baltimore mayor, critics say, O’Malley’s police tactics sowed distrust

Although prosecutors declined to bring many of the cases, activists contend that those who were arrested often could not get their records expunged, making it harder for them to get jobs.

“We still have men who are suffering from it today,” said Marvin “Doc” Cheathem, a past president of the Baltimore branch of the NAACP, which won a court settlement stemming from the city’s policing policies. “The guy is good at talking, but a lot of us know the real story of the harm he brought to our city.”

Bishop Douglas Miles, a community leader, said O’Malley’s department “set the tone for how the police department in Baltimore has reacted to poor and African American communities since then.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/as-mayor-of-baltimore-omalleys-policing-strategy-sowed-mistrust/2015/04/25/af81178a-ea9d-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html

[elleng]

2. I haven't said he addresses issues that Bernie doesn't,

but do note that his executive experience is superior to that of any other Democratic candidate.

To answer your question, partly it's media stuff and partly 'lemming' tendencies of many, which really annoys me: people not supporting, or even looking into a candidate because his poll number are low.

I support candidates based on their policies, experience, and character, and for those reasons I support Martin O'Malley.

ONE example: Former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley criticized the Obama administration -- albeit not by name -- on Friday for continuing to detain undocumented women and children.

"We should not be in the business of building barbed wire detention camps. Detentions are cruel, costly & against our values-esp for families," O'Malley, who is weighing a bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, tweeted.

O'Malley also tweeted the link to a New York Times editorial published Friday calling for an end to the "immoral" practice of detaining families in deportation proceedings. "Let's lead with our principles & end them," he added in a second tweet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/15/martin-omalley-family-immigration_n_7294084.html

Further, many prominent African Americans have spoken out on behalf of O'Malley.

In Maryland, you can't ask job applicants if they have prior arrests. A Mayor of a city as violent as Baltimore in the 90s is certainly expected to bring down the crime stats. Kids couldn't even walk to school. That was fixed and the city improved.

Some people's rhetoric ignores how awful life was in the grips of out-of-control drug gangs running rampant It ignores the people who took over and ran things for 7-1/2 years after O'Malley left office.

[restorefreedom]

3. the suppression of speech and debate

by dws, added to low name recognition would be my guess.

[Andy823]

7. That and the media

Right wing media doesn't want this to be any kind of "real" political race. They want it to be Bernie VS Hillary, and that's how it has been going. I agree the debates would help O'Malley a lot, but the powers that be don't seem to like the idea of having the lesser known candidates in the spot light.

I wil say one thing, Bernie has surprised a lot of people, including the media, and this is a good thing.

[kenfrequed]

45. Basically, yes

Most of this is name recognition.

The DNC has stolen oxygen from other candidates by putting off the debates.

[mahina]

4. I was for him before Bernie announced. I like Bernie better because he's got a steel spine,

speaks clearly, with precision and doesn't waste words. He has integrity and intellect that is evident in every word he says.

I have taken the measure of the man and found him worth supporting.

Aside from what Cheese Sandwich already said, which I learned after I first liked O'Malley, when he speaks, he drifts a little, whines a little, and comes off as not particularly persuaded of what he has to say himself. Needless to say, that message is not compelling.

I think Bernie has a better chance of winning than Martin, and I trust Bernie to make decisions that I will agree with, mostly. I am still working on him about Palestine/Israel.

[Andy823]

5. Gee, let's see now

Could it be that the MEDIA has decided that this is a horse race between Bernie and Hillary, and they are the ONLY two the media is covering?

[DavidDvorkin]

6. I think that's it.

[Chitown Kev]

23. That and

everyone knew that O'Malley was running for president prior to Bernie's announcement and O'Malley had already staked out positions to the left of Clinton.

If O'Malley had gotten in the race before Sanders, O'Malley may have had more progressive support but he did not do that for whatever reason (probably because he doesn't excite anyone).

Once Sanders got in the race, O'Malley couldn't be the progressive candidate.

[magical thyme]

10. the media didn't give Bernie his huge draw or climbing polls.

His huge draws brought the media to him, not the other way around.

O'Malley is good on many issues, but to me, his persona comes across as overly programmed, overly dressed and groomed. So he leaves me uncomfortable; I don't quite believe him.

[elleng]

16. He DOES comb his hair, thyme.

Kidding, kind of, and don't mean demean Bernie or snark you, but his thoughtfulness and professional demeanor are NOT, in my opinion, decent reasons to not 'believe' him. Makes NO SENSE.

[magical thyme]

38. his thoughtfulness is fine. it's the sense of overly groomed (yes he combs his hair, lol) and over-

programmed. The careful introductory video kind of made me wince...like watching your kid at his first recital, a bit off key and losing the rhythm or tempo. But that was pretty much all I've seen of him, too. What I've read of him on the issues is excellent.

Biden has mastered being down-to-earth and "real" in front of cameras. Too bad he is soooooo horrible on the issues.

And that's why I want more debates. In a debate, where you are answering more "off-the-cuff" as opposed to giving pre-written speeches, it gives the opportunity to be more spontaneous. Interacting with the moderator and other candidates probably helps them forget the cameras a bit.

[Chitown Kev]

52. I've heard multiple people say

that O'Malley reminds them a bit of John Edwards

[Scootaloo]

18. The Media isn't so much as covering Bernie...

As they are asking Bernie to help them cover Hillary.

[bvf]

20. Well put.

Glad he doesn't play along.

[sabrina 1]

33. O'Malley was in the race before Bernie. I was glad as I did not support Hillary and

thought there would be no one else in the race. I like him, supported him, didn't need the media to tell me about him, who does these days?

I didn't know about his record on policing, that would be a problem for me. However, Hillary's support for the tough on crime bill probably caused even more harm so would still have supported him.

But when Bernie announced, I was thrilled, I wanted him to run, as did a lot of people, but thought he probably would not.

So for me it had nothing to do with the media, nor for many others, it is purely the fact that no one in this race can come close to Bernie ON THE ISSUES.

[Chitown Kev]

34. Yes, for all intents and purposes O'Malley was in the race before Bernie

but he did not formally announce and O'Malley was clearly staking positions on Clinton's left flank in that period.

That formal announcement meant something.

On the crime bill:

Remember, that in spite of Bernie's warnings about the possible ramifications of the 1994 crime bill, he did vote "Yea" on that bill because there were some things in that bill that he wanted (perhaps the assault weapons ban or the Violence Against Women Act). So Bernie does need to be dinged on that as well Clinton (That bill gave O'Malley the federal backup that he needed for the way policing went down in Baltimore).

I used to ding Sanders & Clinton MUCH harder on that 1994 crime bill vote of his but after studying the context of that bill a bit more, I don't ding Sanders OR Clinton as hard (although I do consider it to be a negative on both of their records).

[left-of-center2012]

12. Kucinich?

I didn't know he was a progressive?

[GoneOffShore]

14. Kucinich - he brings the cray-cray.

[Ken Burch]

17. He was anti-Iraq War, favored single payer, wanted massive cuts in the war budget.

And was the most pro-labor candidate in the race in 2004 and 2008. He lost the mayor's job in Cleveland because he refused to give in to corporate demands that he sell of the city's public electrical utility(a stand that saved the taxpayers of that city tens of millions of dollars over the years).

And he favored setting up a Department of Peace.

The only reason anyone would have thought that Kucinich wasn't progressive was that he started out as anti-choice. He switch to being pro-choice when he ran for president, which should have put that concern to rest for everyone.

[karynnj]

21. Gephardt was likely the most pro labor in 2004

Sharpton and Mosley Braun were more liberal than Kuchinich by far.

[Ken Burch]

22. Sharpton, possibly(his program and Dennis' were about the same) but Mosley Braun?

We're talking about the Mosley Braun who was the biggest congressional supporter of the Nigerian military junta.

What issues was Kucinich in any way conservative on?

Is it just that he was anti-choice in the past?

[Recursion]

25. And also pro-life until the day before he announced

I always figured that had something to do with it

[Ken Burch]

26. Does that outweigh everything else?

Does that negate everything else?

Does that justify preferring Dean, who was pro-choice but was sharply to the right of Dennis on every OTHER issue?

He would have been pro-choice as president.

[Recursion]

28. You'd have to ask individual voters

I was team Clark back in '04. I never was particularly impressed with Kucinich to begin with (same complaint I have with Sanders: he seems to govern by slogan and suggests absurdly simple solutions to extremely complex problems), but I think there were some voters who were turned off by his "change of heart" there.

[Ken Burch]

31. Dennis was also hampered by his short stature and relatively average appearance.

(If I really could have had it my way that year, I'd have had Clark run on Dennis' platform. That would have been a powerful combination...Dennis' principles and Clark's military bearing). I did respect Clark.

[Recursion]

32. Clark/Gephardt (or vice versa) would have been really good

I think Gephardt shouldn't have bowed out so quickly either.

[elleng]

54. Hey Recursion,

I'm a Clarkie from way back!!! Part of my habit to pick the BEST and then see them suffer dismal results. Haven't thought of Gephardt in a long time. Have you seen this?

Clark: Don't let would-be leaders get away without having a strategy.

Retired four-star Gen. Wesley Clark had one piece of advice for early caucus state voters in Las Vegas: Ask them about their strategy.

Clark, speaking at the end of an address to the Economic Club of Las Vegas on Tuesday, said voters here should take advantage of candidate visits get some insights into how the next commander-in-chief will deal will global military and economic problems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016132572

[Recursion]

64. GMTA, elleng

And occasionally mine does too

[elleng]

65. HA!

[elleng]

55. Wes Clark's my #1!

Seen this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016132572

[MH1]

53. Absolutely it would negate it in the primaries.

Reproductive rights are not an optional issue.

I allow some (small) gray area on details like parental notification, but basically if a candidate is anti- reproductive rights, I'm done with him or her.

[Ken Burch]

58. but he was running as pro-LGBTQ and pro-choice.

And without a long-history of sanctimoniously defending the old positions.

That would have obligated him to hold to those positions as president.

Kerry was wishy-washy on LGBTQ issues and tepid on choice(he never challenged, at any point in the 2004 campaign, the basic idea that women who seek and have abortions should be stigmatized), so why give him the benefit of the doubt but not Kucinich?

[dsc]

46. really?

If Hillary, after her career of votes, started saying in 2013 that she was now anti war, you would take that at face value? Kucinich changed his position on both choice and gay rights literally months before he ran for President. Anyone who cared about either of those issues had every right to wonder just how sincere that change was. Just like if Hillary were to declare herself a pacifist months before running.

[Ken Burch]

56. Your analogy would only work

if, prior to that, Dennis had cast and defended casting votes in the House which caused the deaths of 500,000 LGBTQ people or 500,000 women who had been seeking abortions.

[dsc]

57. Clinton's vote wasn't the deciding vote

that is utter bull shit you are pulling out of your ass. I don't think even a majority of Democrats voted against but it sure as Hell wasn't the deciding vote. The fact is Kucinich voted against abortion pretty much every chance he got until he changed his mind, and his gay rights record was nearly as bad before he changed his mind mere months before running for President. I won't say any of his votes on either subject were deciding but they were cast.

[Ken Burch]

59. For that matter, Dennis didn't cast the deciding vote on any measure involving choice or LGBT rights

n/t.

[dsc]

60. which I, unlike you,

said in my post, unprompted. You basically told a gigantic fib, I didn't, that is the difference. Here are the words you apparently couldn't be bothered to read.

I won't say any of his votes on either subject were deciding but they were cast.

[Ken Burch]

61. I didn't say her vote passed the IWR, but it did implicate her in every war death

simply because she knew Bush would go to war(she knew there was no other possible outcome)if the IWR passed. She gave Bush aid and comfort and helped allow him to claim bipartisan support for what he was always going to,, as Kerry knew as well.

Stopping war is just as much a moral and social justice and human rights issue as supporting choice and LGBTQ rights.

[dsc]

62. you called it the deciding vote

what else is that supposed to mean?

[Ken Burch]

63. I didn't use the words "the deciding vote" in the original response to your analogy.

I only used that phrase to describe the relative lack of importance of the votes Kucinich had cast on choice and LGBTQ issues. I disagreed with his votes on those issues, but what matters is that he clearly admitted he was wrong for casting them.

[GoneOffShore]

13. Because fewer people have heard of O'Malley than have heard of Marco Rubio.

Santorum has bigger name recognition.

[elleng]

15. Here's a thread addressing your question, Ken Burch:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813235

[99Forever]

19. He talks the talk...

....but is too much of an unproven commonly.

Sanders has a long proven history of fighting for us. Decades.

Obama abused up the last o our "trust me" quotient.

[Chitown Kev]

24. I'm a gay man

If LGBT issues were my sole criterion, Martin O'Malley would be the easy and very clear choice over Bernie Sanders

[Ken Burch]

27. I'd be interested in hearing you explain that.

Bernie has never, ever been deficient on LGBTQ issues in the slightest.

From what I've seen from you elsewhere, it's beginning to look like you are more anti-Bernie than pro-anything else.

Do you see the Sanders campaign as something that has to be stopped? If so, why?

[Chitown Kev]

29. Martin O'Malley was the governor of a state

that won marriage equality by referendum, Martin O'Malley was the one the whipped up some Dem votes in the Maryland legislature so that it passed the second time. Martin O'Malley also helped to pass T-inclusive non-discrimination laws in Maryland and signed them.

I never said that Bernie was bad on LGBT issues, I am saying that Martin O'Malley is flat-out better based on his record as the head executive in a state...Now, Martin O'Malley has other issues, but if I were voting strictly based on LGBT issues (and I am not) than Martin O'Malley is the clear choice over both Sanders and Clinton.

[Ken Burch]

30. OK...thanks for that post. n/t.

[elleng]

49. Thanks for this, Chitown Kev.

Should be useful facts for any interested.

[99Forever]

37. That's your opinion and option.

Senator Sanders record in supporting ALL struggling people is solid, including LGBT. It ain't all about just you. (That applies to every single issue or demographic person.) It's about ALL of us.

[Chitown Kev]

41. I have facts to back my opinions up if we are talking

about LGBT issues and comparing O'Malley's record to Sanders

[99Forever]

43. So, I guess I should...

... give up on the candidate who BEST addresses MANY issues important to me and many others and switch to your candidate because IN YOUR OPINION you have "facts" that IN YOUR OPINION somehow is "better" on your one, single issue? That about sum it up?

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for that to happen. I harbor no animosity to O'Malley, but he won't replace Senator Sanders for me. Nor is it likely he'll draw away many other Sanders supporters, not a dis on Gov. O'Malley, just a realistic view of the kind excitement and enthusiasm Bernie generates. Actually, I would love a Sanders/O'Malley ticket.

[Chitown Kev]

44. I don't have any animosity toward O'Malley, either

or even Sanders...O'Malley (unlike Sanders) still needs to answer a lot of questions about his policing policies in Baltimore but like you, I am fine with him being a VP no matter who the eventual nominee is...and I'm still considering voting for him in the primary...

I've addressed much of my opinions about O'Malley and why he isn't gaining traction elsewhere here...but I will advise, that no supporters for any of the Dem candidates should look for any unabashed cheerleading from this uncommitted voter...you won't find it and I am skeptical of all of them.

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

35. I currently don't support Mr O'Malley and don't have any plans to support him either

maybe I would if Bernie was not in the race IDK.

For years Bernie has pretty much been the lone voice of sanity in Congress, he has a long proven record of working for the people.

O'Malley is the new guy and well he still needs to prove himself to the people.

I really can't think of much to say about O'Malley, I never really researched him, I always considered him a non starter in the POTUS race. I think what people are leery of is another Obama or B Clinton, say one thing do another. In other words may times they talk the talk but then don't walk the walk. Me I am sick to it and will no longer vote for those who do not talk the talk and walk the walk or those who don't put their money where their mouth is either.

[elleng]

47. About Martin O'Malley:

1. Ended death penalty in Maryland
2. Prevented fracking in Maryland and put regulations in the way to prevent next GOP Gov Hogan fom easily allowing fracking.
3. Provided health insurance for 380,000
4. Reduced infant mortality to an all time low.
5. Provided meals to thousands of hungry children and moved toward a goal for eradicating childhood hunger.
6. Enacted a $10.10 living wage and a $11. minimum wage for State workers.
7. Supporter the Dream Act
8. Cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders (raised taxes on the rich).
9. Reformed Maryland’s tax code to make it more progressive.
10. Enacted some of the nation’s most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.

Mother Jones magazine called him the best candidate on environmental issues.
Article here:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/12/martin-omalley-longshot-presidential-candidate-and-real-climate-hawk

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Black progressive woman

He's a DC outsider. There are many of us disgusted with Congress. So those I know who are supporting him like me? And I've spent Friday night, some time yesterday and will be spending time today at an event where I can reach my demographic? That's where some appeal lies. We are ignored and when the MSM and D.C. DO pay attention to us - it's always to tear us down. or blame everything that is wrong in America on our sexual habits, number of children, lack of marriageable men, "laziness", etc etc.

Not saying that Sanders HAS done this - so lets nip that in the bud.

Just saying O'Malley hasn't done this and as elleng pointed out above - O'Malley did things as Mayor and Governor to "keep us safe" and honor us as women. He made sure a black baby born to a poor woman in MD had as much a chance of surviving as a white baby born to a woman in Beverly Hills CA.

This weekend has not been about Sanders. It's about tearing votes from a segment that CAN vote (incarcerations of black men, convictions leading to disenfranchisement) from Clinton.

Those "policing tactics" meant my friend Lisa's daughter could play in her front yard in Baltimore. And if his policies were that bad - why didn't the current Mayor change them? She chose not to lower the hammer and "clean up" her PD.

7 1/2 years is too long ago to blame Mr. Gray's death on O'Malley. But it's not too long to say, "he kept us safe".

[bigtree]

39. nice post, Gen

...thanks for that.

[elleng]

48. THANKS, Gen.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. Oh, and things like this.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/09/20/3703506/martin-omalley-defends-his-record-of-zero-tolerance-policing-as-activists-march-against-it/

[CTyankee]

42. O'Malley got caught up in the zero tolerance ambiance of the time and hasn't shaken it off since...

Bernie comes fresh out of Vermont, a green and pleasant land, and he's the real deal. I like him because he says what other politicians can't/won't say. That we need "socialist" policies (indeed, we already have them and they are POPULAR). And he takes aim at the billionaire class who are making out like bandits while the rest of us are stuck. It resonates, that's why he's risen. Simple as that.

[KoKo]

50. I see him as a VP Candidate......

Maybe others do also. He's not ready yet....if he ever will be. But..VP is what I've felt he is running for. And he makes some good points and we shall see if he's a fighter or just more DLC.

[Peregrine Took]

51. I'm already "taken." ('been 'berned.) n/t