Hillary did quite a bit of sabre rattling in her interview yesterday

[cali]

She really is an interventionist in the neocon American Exceptionalism vein. I don't see how, from a liberal perspective, that's defensible. And her answer to the question of whether Bush kept us safe, was just a political duck. btw, this is what is known as substantive criticism. Criticism of policy and specifics is NOT bashing and it has jackshit to do with right wing smears.

<snip> (The they she refers to in the first sentence, is Russia)

I want to just end by saying, if they are providing any equipment to Hezbollah, if they are supporting Hezbollah, which is the main fighting force on behalf of the Iranians to support Assad, but also a deadly threat to Israel, then we have got to take action, whether there are tougher sanctions or other kinds of actions to try to prevent that from happening.

DICKERSON: I want to ask you about something that came up in the Republican debate. Jeb Bush said, one thing was true about his brother. He kept America safe.

Do you agree with that?

CLINTON: I think it's a complicated question, because, of course, 9/11 happened.

I was a senator from New York. And I was basically consumed by my responsibility to help the people directly affected in my state and in the city.

So, it did happen. And then I do give President Bush credit for trying to bring the country together around the threats that we did face. I have said the war in Iraq was a mistake. I supported what happened in Afghanistan. So, if you sort it all out, you know, it's a mixed -- it's a mixed picture.

<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/21/hillary-clintons-face-the-nation-appearance-annotated/#

[elleng]

1. Yes, she really is an interventionist in the neocon American Exceptionalism vein.

[cali]

2. that really is indisputable.

It worries me quite a bit.

[elleng]

4. Yes, and has been clear;

it's my #1 reason for opposing her, next is 'corporatist.' She had a huge chance to be otherwise, foreign policy-wise, as a friend of hers, Wes Clark, (MY #1,) is, was and has been NON-interventionist, did NOT support Iraq, and may have advised her at the time.

[restorefreedom]

11. my same reasons, ellen

and in the same order

hawk 1 and corporatist 2. two things I feel like I could never support, even individually. But put them together, and forget it.

[tecelote]

43. Me too - hawk 1 and corporatist 2

Profits over people.

[Dustlawyer]

53. Clark is another true patriot!!!

[elleng]

54. YES indeed, Dustlawyer!

Have you seen this?

Clark: Don't let would-be leaders get away without having a strategy. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016132572

[Dustlawyer]

62. No, but doesn't surprise me. He worked with us prior to his Presidential run and was

very interested in LEARNING about our civil justice system and the clamor for tort reform. The fact that he was willing to listen and learn before forming his own opinions was what impressed me most. He was likable, honest and smart. Too bad he was not better at being a politician. He is a REAL leader and would have made a great President. His problem is that he refused to sell out to get elected. Our system is set up to prevent actual leadership to make it.

Obama is proof of this to the extent that he could have been our greatest President, but he had to repay his benefactors for getting him elected. He did many great things that Wall Street either didn't care about, or wanted as well. NSA spying, no Wall Streeters even indicted, no war crimes investigations, Bush tax cut extensions, deportations, the TPP he is pushing, and several others will be stains upon his Presidency. Hard to tell from this, but I do like him. It's just that is how the game has been played. Bernie is trying to put an end to this and I hope he succeeds. I am doing what I can, as we all should, to see that we win the fight to return to Representative Democracy!

[elleng]

66. I'm very pleased you met Wes and worked with him.

I met him casually several times. He IS a real leader.

[TM99]

3. Only to a fucking triangulating

neoliberal is it a 'mixed picture'!

[Robbins]

5. How hard is it to say

No Bush didn't keep us safe but that is what happens when the clintons and bushes are thick as thieves.

[MBS]

6. Yes, I was flabbergasted by her remarks about W.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing-- reassuring to see the transcript, to confirm that it wasn't my imagination. Incredible, really. And this is supposed to win her votes in the Democratic primary, exactly how??
She really does have a neocon foreign policy POV.
Wow.

[beam me up scottie]

7. Jesus Christ.

[restorefreedom]

16. please don't hurt your head.

i'm afraid there are many more moments of headbanging the wall to come. we must pace ourselves.

[beam me up scottie]

17. And some people are worried that Sanders won't go negative on Republicans?

WTF was that?

She had the opportunity to nail Bush but chose to defend him because otherwise she would look just as guilty???

[restorefreedom]

18. we are stepping into the funhouse

please keep your hands inside the car at all times.

[tularetom]

8. No, it isn't a fucking "mixed picture"

Even republicans agree the whole thing was a major clusterfuck that is continuing to have repercussions 13 years after the fact. She seems awfully eager to excuse the failures of Bush/Cheney that have contributed to the rise of ISIS and the flood of Syrian refugees that will soon be arriving at our shores.

Are we really ready to start WWIII just so this insecure woman can prove to somebody (herself maybe?) that she has bigger cojones than Barack Obama/

[MBS]

12. yup, that pretty much summarizes it. n/t

[rhett o rick]

31. She agreed with them then and she still defends them and has never apologized for the damage

done.

[Doctor_J]

9. Well, since last week she's a "proud moderate", so it fits

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. "I have said the war in Iraq was a mistake." She left out the "I supported and voted for it" part.

[cali]

13. supported it for years and years.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. And, applauded it.

I wish I could find the press story where she applauds all the "accomplishments" of the slaughter. Retch worthy.

[MisterP]

39. stumped for 20 minutes on it

she's almost wetting the seat in the last one--how HAPPY she is, how little thought that anything could actually go *badly* wrong

[restorefreedom]

15. wow, we truly have entered the bizarro world.

that interviewer gave her an opportunity, gift wrapped, to give the ultimate smack down to jeb! and the entire Bush family crime syndicate. And what did she do? She equivocates and give them cover.

A PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A LEADER AND NOT WORTHY OF THE DEM NOM. OR THE PRESIDENCY. SHE DOES NOT REPRESENT US. she represents the MIC. Is that not clear yet to some?

[cali]

19. yep. she was handed a gold plated opportunity and whiffed it. thanks hill.

[MBS]

21. " " " " n/t

[restorefreedom]

23. then again,

they ARE friends....

[dsc]

50. Yes how dare that bastard attend the national governors association while being a governor

shame on his worthless ass.

[restorefreedom]

51. are you really denying

the cozy relationship that has existed between the two families for decades?

[dsc]

58. two decades would be 1995

so yeah I surely am.

[restorefreedom]

60. i did not say 2.

but if you want to deny that they're both part of the corporate mega oligarchy, knock yourself out.

[dsc]

61. Is there a plural number less than 2 that I haven't heard of yet

[restorefreedom]

67. no. whats the point? nt

[dsc]

68. well if I am saying they haven't been close since 1995 then I am defacto

saying the same thing about years before that.

[restorefreedom]

70. whatever.

The families are buds in there both part of the mega oligarchy in this country. They're both part of the problem, and we don't need someone from either family to be back in the White House. Have a nice day

[George II]

52. And this....

[restorefreedom]

55. uh huh, and........ nt

[Scuba]

20. Equivocating on whether Bush kept us safe or not should be a disqualifier in our Party.

[restorefreedom]

22. a freakin men. nt

[rhett o rick]

35. Exactly. She can't give a straight answer to save her soul. nm

[Nay]

44. Agreed. This makes me want to do projectile vomiting. She was HANDED this

question so she could actually slam a puerile, hapless asshole like Dubya for ignoring the warnings and then acting like a deer in the headlights. For. Fuck's. Sake. Why is that so hard? Let me see . . .

If anyone doubts that the Clintons and the Bushes are best buds, well, you're an idiot. If you vote for this woman you deserve what you get.

[restorefreedom]

56. plus a whole freakin pantload. nt

[cantbeserious]

24. Once A War Hawk - Always A War Hawk

eom

[bunnies]

25. And dont forget about all those people he kept safe in NOLA!

[Nay]

46. And all the people who didn't die of anthrax! Oh, wait. . .

[mrdmk]

71. Also, all of the people who died in California when the electric power was turned-off

in 2000 - 2001...

[Ron Green]

26. Slimier by the day.

How can anyone support this person for President of the United States?

[BeyondGeography]

27. Long-term costs of Iraq and Afghanistan: $10 trillion

just to mix the picture up a little further.

Her FP pronouncements are depressing.

[cali]

28. they sure are a confirmation of her being a neocon

[BeyondGeography]

32. I really feel like I'm being railroaded by her on FP

She does not talk like a Democrat, ca. 2015. At the same time, we are most likely going to be stuck with her. I can deal with her for the most part domestically, but her "muscular" bullshit and the whole kiss-my-ass tone she uses toward the outside world makes me sick to my stomach. Obama got the ball rolling with Cuba and Iran not least because he knows how Ugly American plays in the world. He knows how to connect. She doesn't.

[Robbins]

47. we don't have to be

we have a choice.

Seeing her friendly with Kissinger and bubba friendly with both Bushes should disequilfy her as a democrat.She makes Chaffee and Webb look like ultraLiberals.

If she were to win nomination I will do 3 things

1:Leave DU
2:Officially declare myself an Independent
3:Stay home on Election Day 2016

I haven't changed my oporion on W and Iraq In last 13 years.

[Ed Suspicious]

37. One man's cost is another man's gain.

Which side is she on, boy? Which side is she on?

[RufusTFirefly]

29. Gee, whatta shock! Not!

She's not only buddies with Henry Kissinger but also with arch-necon and PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan

Announcing her latest campaign for the presidency, Hillary Clinton declared she was entering the race to be the champion for “everyday Americans.” As a lawmaker and diplomat, however, Clinton has long championed military campaigns that have killed scores of “everyday” people abroad, from Iraq to Yemen.

...

Hillary’s already won the support of those who continually agitate for war. “I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,” Robert Kagan, a co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century, told The New York Times last summer. “If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue,” he said, “it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

We’re going to call it what it is: More of the same sort of murderous policies that destroyed Iraq, destabilized Libya, killed women and children with cluster bombs and drones in Yemen, and legitimized the undermining of democracy in Honduras. There’s little chance the Republicans will nominate someone better, but given Clinton’s record as a senator and secretary of state — the latter giving us a very good idea of how she would approach foreign affairs once in office — it will be hard for them to find anyone much worse

When Hillary Clinton Pitched the Iraq War to CodePink: Hawkish highlights from Hillary Clinton's career.

[nichomachus]

30. Not to mention that she has been in combat

Or at least landed under enemy fire, barely dodging her way to safety.

[RufusTFirefly]

34. Frankly, I feel better just knowing that she's battle tested. I trust her completely.

Hillary Clinton is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?

[Gman]

33. There's a problem with that answer????

From a policy perspective, as the junior Senator from NY at the time, I think it's the right answer.

Unfortunately many things are not black and white in such a way as to call them liberal or conservative. That's what the right wing does and it's why it's so easy to criticize because nothing has to be complex. It's why the right wing can go on Fox and blast the president over complex issues that they have reduced to a few words. Their people eat it up. Same thing here. It's why this side of the aisle prides ourselves in thinking and comprehending the nuances of complex issues. The reality is it was an extremely difficult and complex time. She gave a good answer.

[cali]

36. which answer?

I have a problem with her interventionism which is clearly rooted in neoconservative American Exceptionalism philosophy.

[Gman]

40. Afghanistan started out as a just war

Neoconservative, PNAC, liberal passivism, etc not withstanding, sometimes you must go to war. It ceased to be at Tora Bora.

2,000 of her constituents were killed on 911. She reacted correctly in supporting war in Afghanistan as there were still many more potential targets for terrorists among her constituents.

As for the IWR, no one but a small few in the intelligence and the WH actually knew WMD's were a lie. Everyone else did not know. There were strong suspicions but nobody else knew with certainty. The big question was, what if Bush was telling the truth and we did not authorize the IWR and something happened?

It's why Bush, Cheney, et al are guilty of everything from treason to war crimes and crimes against humanity. That's why I don't fault any Senator or Rep for erring on the side of caution and voting for the IWR. Blaming Hillary for voting for the IWR is blaming her for believing a lie in good faith.

For that matter, blame Nader voters for throwing the election to Bush in the first place.

[cali]

41. at least justifiable

And many many people knew the IWR was founded on lies, including many of Hillary's wiser colleagues.

[Gman]

45. The point is nobody except

Those few knew with certainty that it was a lie.

As for the answer about Bush keeping is safe, she's a career politician. What can I say? Nobody is perfect.

[cali]

48. many people knew that there was not nearly enough evidence to justify

giving Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld a blank check to go to war. As for perfect, I'm not looking for it.

[Gman]

49. And granted Hans Blix et al

We're saying no WMDs. Bush had the much larger propaganda machine and it worked. It was a very tough time to be a congress critter wanting to do the right thing.

No one was clairvoyant enough to know

[McKim]

65. I Lived Trhough Vietnam and I Could Tell it Was All Lies

No one was clairvoyant? How about the millions of people out in the streets demonstrating? They knew it was all made up BS, and Hilary should have too.

[Gman]

73. I sat exactly where I am sitting right now

And listened to Colin Powell's speech cursing the entire speech as a lie. But still, I only BELIEVED it was lies, I did not KNOW, nor did i I have to vote on something in the Senate. I don't blame any senator for erring on the side of caution.

[GeorgeGist]

72. Bullshit. Plenty of foks outside the beltway knew Colin Powell ...

Was lying his ass off at the UN.

[Gman]

74. Even Colin Powell SUSPECTED his info was lies

To the point he almost refused to give the speech. But even he did not KNOW they were lies. The split in the WH between the voices of reason which included Powell and the willing to lie warmongers led by Cheney is legendary.

[rhett o rick]

38. It was a bullcrap answer. Bush did not keep us safe. There was 9/11, the worse disaster on

American soil. That alone requires a "frack no" answer to whether he kept us safe. Some things are complex. Yeah so what? This question was simple and not "complex". Did George Bush keep us safe? She is hamstrung because of her close relationship with the Bush family.

[DeeDeeNY]

69. I have a problem with her not finding fault where it clearly belongs

W ignored a briefing entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. This is what you get when you have Bill and Dubya acting like BMFs.

[bvar22]

57. Well, she couldn't mention the 4,000 young Americans ...

...who Bush had killed in Iraq by sending them into an unnecessary (and illegal) war in Iraq.
No, Bush didn't keep those Americans safe either,
but Hillary can't mention THAT,
because she helped Bush kill those 4,000 young American soldiers,
not to mention about 1 Million innocent Iraqis.

We knew Saddam did not have WMD.
Since the 1st War in Iraq, Iraq has been the most watched & "sanctioned" country in the World.
If there were the slightest indication that Saddam was building weapons, Bill Clinton sent in the cruise missiles.We also had UN Inspectors on the ground with unrestricted access to everything in Iraq telling us that Saddam had no WMD.

We watched Colin Powell's report to the UN where he used Cartoon Drawings and theatrics instead of presenting PROOF...not a single piece of credible evidence, just twisted speculation and cartoons.
I couldn't believe it when I found many posts at DU like,
"Well, he convinced me".

The only thing Powell convinced me about was that PT Barnum radically underestimated the number of suckers born every day in America. That is why casinos are so successful...and unending supply of SUCKERS.

[jfern]

59. Here's a real Democratic answer

Hell no, Bush didn't keep us safe. He ignored the August 6th 2001 memo titled "Bin Laden determined to strike in US". Bush ignored the warning. His own FBI had the 20th hijacker in custody and knew he wanted to fly a plane into the WTC. 3000 people died. Bush then started the Iraq war for no good reason. 4000 Americans died. Bush ignored New Orleans hurricane warnings. A couple of thousand people died there.

Anyone who praises Bush in their answer is no Democrat.

[frylock]

63. There was nothing complicated about the question. That non-answer was full of complications though.

[George II]

64. "this is what is known as substantive criticism"?

"this is what is known as substantive criticism. Criticism of policy and specifics is NOT bashing and it has jackshit to do with right wing smears."

Yeah, and then you go right into the smear:

"She really is an interventionist in the neocon American Exceptionalism vein".