2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders Sets The Record Straight: My Supporters Are ‘Not Anti-Clinton’
Except in DU Bubble land of course
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/30/sanders-sets-the-record-straight-my-supporters-are-not-anti-clinton-video/
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)We just think Bernie will make a MUCH better president.
On DU, there are many of us who are against Clinton's supporters. If that makes us anti- in their book, well, ok.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Which is why he has zero endorsements. If he can't even rally his own troops to his agenda he'll just be a punching bag for the rightwing.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The establishment politicians are not "his own troops". Only someone who is clueless would continue to profess such a thing.
And in reality, the rightwing is Bernie's punching bag and they are scared of him.
So, in one post you have made two errors. Going for three strikes in your next reply?
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)And Democratic senators and congress are the troops.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You managed to swing and miss a third time. In baseball that means you go back to the dugout.
The establishment politicians are not backing Bernie because Bernie is not kissing their ass. That's what makes Bernie so acceptable to the common person and will ensure his victory over the establishment.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)This isn't a baseball game, and presidents don't write legislation. If Bernie wants to enact any of his agenda he will need the complete backing of establishment Dems.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)They will or they will get voted out of office by the hordes of voters who will sweep Bernie into office in 2016.
And some republicans will go along seeing the wave.
I'd rather not have another Clinton in office who makes bad deals with the republicans like Bill did. I want someone to kick their ass!
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)25 million jobs created, raised taxes on the rich, longest stretch of peacetime.
rock
(13,218 posts)Your opinions are really wild and wrong.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I pretty much agree with all you wrote.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)We're gonna get this done and get Bernie in. Everyday we see more and more people seeing Bernie like we do. I'm loving it!
ancianita
(35,812 posts)don't attack. In the heat of primary fever both sides might forget, but overall, they do remember that they are each supporters in the General.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
monmouth4
(9,663 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Unless it was satire?
monmouth4
(9,663 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)So the better souls for Bernie in general far outnumber the evil supporters here on this site.
It may be because they don't have to read the OPs here, that allows them to be so gracious.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)and you won't be voting for a Democrat. As a lifelong democrat I am disgusted by your stance. You do know this is not BernieUnderground?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I think the former Goldwater Girl is exactly what she's always been...a stealth moderate Republican. I think about as well of her supporters.
I will never vote for her. There is no possibility that I will. Fortunately, I live in CT where the GOP is basically dead and buried in so the Democratic nominee will win my state regardless who that nominee is.
randys1
(16,286 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)Nor am I straight, nor am I a Christian, nor am I a Male...and guess who I will be voting for?
Voting for Bernie.. I like what he has to say...and I am convinced, so It looks like not all of Bernie's supporters, are white straight males.
randys1
(16,286 posts)that will help elect GOP to WH or you wont.
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)I WON'T BE Voting for any GOP candidate...do you EVEN think Donald Trump would give me credit for anything other than being a non-white female, that's (gasp!) Bi-sexual? According to him, I'm an Immigrant!! Yeah, Donald, send me back to ASIA where I belong!!!
randys1
(16,286 posts)minorities, anybody but the white privileged str8t protestant male class.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)they say they are
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)like I'm just throwing my vote away if I don't vote for the one who's the chosen one! There is the first vote coming up, I will be voting for Bernie. If the Democrats choose him, I will vote for him again. If he is not picked the first time around, than who ever the party chooses, I will vote for them. No Republican will win, not on my watch.
randys1
(16,286 posts)My issue is with those who say they wont vote for Hillary no matter what.
And I will attack them every time i come across them because I consider them to either NOT be liberals or democrats at all or if they are they are still so wrong I will do whatever I can to expose that.
It sickens me because most who say that are also those with the least to lose.
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)I am of Japanese and Hawaiian Native decent. Now you know someone who does not fit the bill of being a white, straight, male. I am sure if people looked at his crowds, they would see an entire rainbow of people who went to go hear him speak.
merrily
(45,251 posts)You should apologize.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I think Hillary's DLC/Third-Way center-right fiscal positions and lip service to progressive social-values will be terrible for women, children, LGBTQ... individuals, and minorities.
Hillary is the candidate that is best for white privileged str8t protestant males. Anybody else supporting her is voting against their interests.
I'm multi-ethnic.
I'm pansexual (femme-preferenced) and polyamorous.
I'm an atheist.
I'm gender-nonconforming.
0/4
Definitely not voting for Hillary though.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It would make you want to stop coming here.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It gets no lower than "Gee, I sure hope he isn't REALLY a pedophile."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)But, you're right. At least that keeps them from the eyes of non-members.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Though I suspect he doesn't have the time to be a member.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:32 AM - Edit history (1)
I've never seen anyone posting here in his name or claiming to speak for him. I would never dream of saying that the pedophile crap was posted in Hillary's name because someone who claims to support Hillary posted it. Or that I would not vote for Hillary because of her supporters.
No Sanders is much better off not seeing the garbage being posted about him here, and by people who point fingers at his supporters and threaten to inform him about his supporters to boot. The double standards (and other things) here are borderline insane. Actually, perhaps not always so borderline, now that I've typed it out. I guess it's just after one has read it so many thousand times, it can seem more usual and therefore perhaps less certifiable than it did the first time.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Not surprised.
merrily
(45,251 posts)"You're a liar," is an example of a personal attack. Nothing like that in my post.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I'll keep that in mind.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Whatever. You're on your own with this pretense of personal insults.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Lucky Luciano
(11,242 posts)If these people do that on a swing state, then they are crazy.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I live in Boston. I can vote for whomever I wish--and all day long, if they'd let me--and it would not matter.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I'm a progressive; Hillary is a Neoliberal. These don't mix.
I am re-registering as a Democrat just to vote for Bernie Sanders, because he actually represents my political views. Hillary represents many, many things that I find abhorrent - such as belligerent foreign policy, private prisons, and Wall Street malfeasance. I don't vote for supporters of these things. Period.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Nearly all of them here on DU are Democrats - I'm not. I had no intention of voting Democrat in this election until Bernie declared, because the Democratic Party in general does not support liberal and progressive policies. Bernie does, hence the Democrats will get my vote if he wins the nomination.
Hillary, by contrast, will never get my vote. Why would I vote for someone who works against my interests?
merrily
(45,251 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Hillary. One person posted something else and your response to that one person was to thank him or her for proving "us" right (about all Sanders supporters) and to pretend that that one response spoke, not for one person who posted it, not even just for all Sanders supporters on DU, but for millions of people who support Sanders. Here is your reply.
Thanks for proving us right. Obviously Sanders doesn't know his supporters.
As I said, "Can't make it up."
TM99
(8,352 posts)There are now two.
But here's something you might actually try to do....read what is being said so you understand instead of reducing it to 'hate' and red team/blue team adolescent politics.
I am not 'anti-Clinton'. I am anti-neoliberalism and Third Way triangulation. I am anti-neocon foreign policy positions. I am anti-corporate ownership of the political process. I am anti-TPP, NAFTA, and global trade treatises that unduly punish the American workers. I am anti-MIC. I am anti-private prisons and its affects on the AA & Hispanic communities. I am anti-drug war and its affects on the sick and the poor and the addicted.
So I am not anit-Clinton, I am am anti-what she votes for and represents.
She would not have had my vote whether Sanders was running or not because I don't vote for the 'lesser of two evils'. I never have, and I never will. I don't vote because of loyalty to a party. I don't vote other than my own conscience.
I am simply fortunate that there is a politician running in 2016 who is honestly the most in line with traditional Democratic and progressive values, positions, and policies like my own.
Being 'anti-Clinton' is to reduce serious political disagreement to a childish & emotional game. Sanders is dead on right. We are for him because of what he represents and who he is.
valerief
(53,235 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)and it has nothing to do with anti. I was not going to vote for her before Bernie came on the scene. She is in bed with Monsanto (thinks GMO's are peachy keen) and Wall Street. I don't want another Clinton or Bush...enough of the royal families........enough is enough!
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)No one tells me who I must vote for. If you consider that anti-Clinton then go right ahead. I am an Independent which by the way so is Bernie. He would not tell someone who they must vote for in the general election.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Take DU for example. I rarely see anti-Hillary posts from people here.
Hillary is respected on DU and is almost never attacked. Posters here instead focus on the positive of Bernie Sanders without resorting to attacks against Hillary.
DU is a beacon of light in this regard.
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)I have to say, as a Sanders Campaign associate working for the DNC, in real life, you don't see the crazy ass mofokery that you do online. There's a lot of impassioned talk, but not the crazy kind. Especially here in DU and to a lesser extent DKos.
To quote Sanders:
" Democratic leaders are not dumb. What they want and what I want is to make sure that we do not see a Republican gain control over the White House.
And I think as these leaders look around the country and see the kind of energy and see the kind of huge turnouts were getting, seeing the kind of young people who, for the first time, are getting involved in the political process, see the kind of working people who are coming out to our events, I think what these leaders maybe not today but in a couple months will say, you know, we want to win.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)You mean the DKos that banned me for calling a Bernie supporter delusional?
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Stop using my material!
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)bigdarryl
(13,190 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)DU has really calmed down since then.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And heaven forbid if you say why you prefer another candidate.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Don't forget about those.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I haven't seen anyone accusing Clinton of being a rapist.
Or a defender of pedophiles.
or a gun nut.
or a segregationist.
or for that matter, a white supremacist.
Or of her being a "Republican with her head between women's legs."
I've not seen Sanders supporters claiming they "own" blacks, gays, latinos, or women.
or that Clinton is "more loyal to Tel Aviv."
This is the stuff that's been getting thrown at Sanders near-constantly (you seem fond of the pedophile angle, yourself.) So you'll have to understand that compared to that, pointing out Clinton voted for the Iraq War (she did) and talkign about that as if it's still important (it is) is hardly on the level of "hate."
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)There was one that accused Sanders of hating black people because Jews hate black people got hidden - but the poster is still going strong. Which is really strange for antisemites on DU. I wonder why that is.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)On Mon Sep 21, 2015, 06:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I.e., posts about why people choose to support someone else. As I said.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=611646
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Insults as usual. But it will stand because the jury system is broken and Bernie fans get a pass. I've been personally called more vile stuff here than by any rightwinger. Critiques of candidates is ine thing, then come the personal insults.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Sep 21, 2015, 07:08 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alert-er is wrong, wrong, wrong. This was no insult, nor was it a personal attack. The post is not over the top, rude or disruptive.
Stop with the pettiness. Alert-er is not a victim here.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Scootaloo didn't insult you, Scootaloo did what you do on message boards when you disagree with a point someone makes, you rebut it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is the most frivolous alert ever. The person who made it should have to stand in the corner for an hour and then write "I will not waste people's time with stupid alerts" one hundred times on the board after school because that's about the maturity level we're talking about with this alert. Grow up, Mabel.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hi SonderWoman. You should stop trying to hide from calling Sanders a protector of pedophiles.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If the jury had voted to hide, then the alerter is "proven right" that i'm a mean, mean person. But if the jury didn't convict, the alerter is right about how persecuted they are by juries?
That's...
I...
Squirrels...
???
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And stop accurately quoting her!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Good jury!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)'Cause this one is full of a bunch of clinton supporters proving my point.
"he is completely clueless" - would that be "hate" if it were directed at Clinton? be honest now.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It makes you look petty and ill-informed.
We don't hate Hillary - we just don't want to vote for her.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I think the level goes well beyond puerile, at least among some posters.
I tend to stay in the Sanders Group. So, when I stick my head out and see again the kind of @#$%@! that drove me in there in the first place, I get a relatively fresh look at it.
The things on the part of Hillary that get dismissed and excused and how. The things that get said and implied about Sanders. And, LMAO, about his "supporters," as though a relative handful of social media people were the millions who cheer him, and as though we were all going to move into the White House with him and have the codes for nuclear war handcuffed to our collective wrist. Or, to revert to the junior high metaphor, as though someone were going to get Sanders supporter cooties by voting for Sanders.
When you read all that after a couple of weeks of not reading much of it, your jaw drops, your eyes get very large and you recoil instinctively.
Sorry. As I said, I just finished the post.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)FYI, I don't care how I look to you, get it?
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Maybe a little introspection is in order.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Will the unfair recitation of her actual record ever stop?
"These questions and many others will be answered in the next exciting episode of "Bernie Supporters...are so bad!:
We'll hear Hillary tweet....."Price gouging like this in the specialty drug market is outrageous. Tomorrow I'll lay out a plan to take it on"
In other news, Biotechnology shares tumbled.....
The bully pulpit really works with the stock market....
Chan790
(20,176 posts)murielm99
(30,655 posts)He can't see what is happening right in front of his face.
And it is not just DU. It is all over the net.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)the mistake you are making is thinking that somehow we would choose someone else over Bernie....
that it is merely dislike for Hillary that drives us.
murielm99
(30,655 posts)That is what I see here, and I will stand by that.
Nothing I said was anti-Bernie. The last time I checked, we were still allowed to criticize him. I said he is short-sighted about his supporters. He is.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The last time I checked, we were still allowed to criticize her as well
Criticism of Hillary is not any more anti-Hillary than your criticism of Bernie.
The viewpoints of Bernie supporters are always being characterized as something more
and it is not a fair characterization.
Her 2008 campaign against Obama went over the line with the Dog-whistle politics, and I have never forgiven her for it.
It damaged my ability to believe in her decency on a certain level, so I am carefully scrutinizing what she is doing. I have heard this over and over from other Bernie supporters as well.
Bernie wouldn't play that kind of political game in a million years, and I like his stance on every issue.
I trust him.
So, what I am saying is.....I'm anti-Dog-whistle politics, I'm anti-SuperPACS, I'm anti-TPP
which is why I am FOR Bernie over Hillary.
murielm99
(30,655 posts)When the post was alerted, it was allowed to stand. I have seen his supporters call her a liar. Those were allowed to stand. If I called Bernie a liar, I would have fifteen alerts. I have been told to fuck off, and the posts were allowed to stand.
I have seen distorted news articles, articles from blatantly right wing sources and out and out lies allowed to stand about Clinton. And I have seen DU members mass alerted for being critical of Sanders. Some of them are not necessarily Clinton supporters, either.
I know what I am seeing. There is no projecting going on.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)That kind of term is thrown about a lot in our society in terms of things that people and especially politicians do for money in this society. Personally, I would never alert for a metaphor.
Her story about the Bosnia sniper fire would be just one example that would allow for someone to reasonably think that truth is not always her friend, even if Hillary supporters were not comfortable with that label.
As for being told to "fuck off" , that should get more than a hide....I would think that you could be directly banned for that by those in charge of DU. Do you have a link to that?
****on edit....found that post.....I would have hidden it**********
as for "distorted news articles, articles from blatantly right wing sources and poorly sourced left wing articles" I've seen those about Bernie as well." I don't alert on them, I just respond. I think I've alerted once in the 11 years I've been on DU. (clear right wing troll in that one instance)
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)He knows that to win the nomination, he has to get lots of people who like Hillary to switch to him.
Attacking her endlessly, and calling her supporters Republican-lite, won't get those people to switch. It will just make them tune him and his supporters out.
He gets it. Many of them don't.
demwing
(16,916 posts)But I'm not pro-Hillary either. Unfortunately, on DU, that makes me anti-Hillary to some...
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)I'm not pro or anti- Bernie. I'm not Pro or anti Hillary.
What I am , is pro Democratic candidates up and down the ticket.
Which is going to require a LOT of legwork.
Bucky
(53,795 posts)Call me Bubble Land, I guess. But I worry about his electability... almost as much as I worry about Clinton's.
FloridaBlues
(3,991 posts)moobu2
(4,822 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)The vast majority of Sanders supporters do not hate Clinton. They hate her policies.
The vast majority of Clinton supporters appear to like Clinton. Her policies seem to be secondary. So Clinton supporters assume Sanders supporters hate Clinton instead of hating her policies.
And then a few random cranks give them all the ammunition they need to claim it really is personal.
For the record, I don't hate Clinton. I don't know her at all. I hate Clinton's policies.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)and yes Bernie is wrong, many don't.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)for their POLICY is not anti person...its anti policy
why is this so hard to understand?
i will continue to criticize hillary for her hawkish positions, her cozy relationship with Wall Street, her vote for the iraq war, her refusal to take positions on major issues that people are asking about now, her unwillingness to support Glass-Steagall, her hiding behind dws because she is afraid to debate her peers, and her shameless hoovering of campaign money from corporate tax cheats.
if you all want to think that is hating someone, then you clearly don't know hate.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It is not the same model they are using in selecting their candidate.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)was a racist, a gun nut, a Republican man with his head between women's legs, or that she protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies and thought that orgasms prevented cancer.
Oh wait, those were HC supporters talking about Bernie.
My bad.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)oasis
(49,150 posts)or even Democrats for that matter.
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)The bubble is in your mind.
artislife
(9,497 posts)The growth of the emotions is due to being the top dog v the under dog. Neither likes the perceive traits of the other. One is the patronizing and the other is the rebellion.
On this site, the more we tangle, the more we don't like each other in general. We have really created the polarity. Out there as well, there is the meme that she is going to be our next president and the people who have a problem with it, hear it and rebel. Emotions get heated.
Just like every election. This is not new, this is not bad H supporters, bad Bernie supporters. Doesn't anyone remember 2008, 2000 or before. We duke it out. We have very different candidates vying for the top spot.
So I wish everyone would chill on the victimization, because that is the biggest thing that causes one side to dislike the other side. Almost as big as issues.....which is STILL NUMBER ONE for the emotions on both sides.
Whether it be the issue of electability v against the 1%.
Autumn
(44,743 posts)I think she's one of the best First Ladies we have ever had. I think of myself as Pro Bernie. GO BERNIE!!!!!!
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Very distant second choice to be sure but yeah.
frylock
(34,825 posts)try and fuckin spin this. Your lines of attack are as stale as your candidate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'll have to remember that.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)but you are finally wrong. It's okay. We all forgive you.
No time for the link, am going off..
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'm simply pro every other Democrat.
There's a difference.
libodem
(19,288 posts)And I'll be there in the general if it comes to that.
Big Bernie fan for now.
The Bengazi deal is bullshit and so is the server foolishness. All of us can see that.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)But anti-Clinton people can say they support anyone---and then use it as an excuse to vent their spleen.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Sanders supporters here and elsewhere who are more about being pro-Sanders than anti-anybody, but they get drowned out and don't get as much attention. As a person who supports neither him nor HC as my #1 choice (but still am OK with both), those types of supporters are fine in my book. I respect posters like that who don't spread negativity or misinformation about candidates within the party, or intimidate supporters of other candidates. They're the ones following BS's words about not running a negative campaign against the other candidates. As far as his supporters as a whole not being anti-Clinton, that's looking a bit dicey each day I spend time on here and other left-leaning sites. He might want to come on down to DU or DKos one of these days.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Sorry, Bernie. All you have to do is spend 10 minutes right here on DU to put that lie to rest. Or perhaps he's trying to send a message to his more...shall we say....fervent supporters to knock the crap off.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Beacool
(30,244 posts)He should read DU..........