Hillary Had All the Marbles on Her Side of the Table Yet She's STILL Tanking

[Le Taz Hot]

She has unlimited sources of money via high-stakes fundraisers and very friendly Super PACs, the Democratic Party Establishment pretty much announced to anyone thinking about running that Hillary was very clearly THEIR candidate (it's why Biden didn't jump in earlier), she's got the Super Delegates lined up, she's got most of the state party apparatus lined up, she's got herself a limited number of the debates and the lousy timing via her good friend Debbie Wasserman-Schultz who was every so accommodating and after ALL of that, she's STILL tanking. What the HELL does that tell you about Hillary Clinton's viability as a candidate? Seriously.

[Garrett78]

1. Define "tanking."

Given that she's still a heavy favorite to dominate on Super Tuesday and throughout the South, Midwest, Nevada and elsewhere, I'm not sure where you get the idea that she's tanking.

Now, given all the points you made, perhaps her lead in the polls should be greater than it is. And it's certainly true that she's a polarizing figure with high unfavorables. But to say she's tanking seems to be extremely hyperbolic.

[morningfog]

3. In September 2015, Super Tuesday is Charlie Brown in the pumpkin patch.

[Flying Squirrel]

22. Wait a minute

It's either Linus in the pumpkin patch or Charlie brown with Lucy holding the football. I know my Peanuts

[morningfog]

23. AAAUGH!

I stand corrected.

[merrily]

24. .

[MisterP]

12. Super Tuesday's Mar. 1--that's quite a long time for people to get to know her

[SoapBox]

18. Oh...people know her...BOY do people know her!

We've had her in our lives, the media and D.C. for 30 years (or more).

As in No More Bush...No More Clinton.

[Garrett78]

20. Yeah, I don't know how much more known she can get.

And she's still likely to dominate in Super Tuesday primaries and elsewhere.

[merrily]

25. She had 95% name recognition before announcing. That's just about every adult not on life support.

I bet Biden has less than 95% right now.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Know her all too well.

[hifiguy]

69. The reason she's tanking is

BECAUSE we know her all too well.

[magical thyme]

35. from 61+% in April and May down to mid-40s by Sept is a pretty significant drop, dontcha think?

25% drop in 4 months. If it were the stock market, it would be well past a correction and into bear market and recession territory.

So how much of a drop would it take to qualify as tanking?

[Garrett78]

40. I'd suggest that polling in April or May...

is meaningless. Clinton remains a heavy favorite to win a vast majority of delegates, and that can hardly be said of someone who is "tanking."

[magical thyme]

42. and I'd suggest that polling in April or May gives a baseline.

It shows the starting point around the time they announced.

And delegate support isn't cast in stone. If voter support continues on its current trajectory, the delegates will eventually have to follow the people's will.

[Garrett78]

47. The trajectory still points to a Clinton victory...

in the vast majority of early primaries, including those on Super Tuesday. As for having "to follow the people's will," you shouldn't count on that: http://www.salon.com/2015/09/20/how_gop_party_bosses_will_rig_the_system_to_keep_trump_from_winning_partner/?ref=yfp.

I wasn't referring to the super delegates that have supposedly already vowed to support Clinton. I'm referring to the delegate count that will be determined by the primaries and caucuses, which Clinton is likely to dominate if Biden doesn't enter the race. So, of course they're not set in stone. Because there haven't been any primaries or caucuses yet.

[Trajan]

55. We are in it to win it ... To the very end

The Bernie wave is NOT over ...

[jwirr]

65. +1

[morningfog]

2. She's tanking in large part because of those collected marbles.

Those marbles include dirty SuperPAC money and years as an entrenched party insider.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. The contrast with Bernie is startling.

[riversedge]

59. silly, she is not tanking and you look foolish for saying it. Walker and Perry tanked as examples

of tanking.

[sheshe2]

4. ....

Lol~

[SonderWoman]

5. That its September 2015 and she hasn't even started campaigning yet?

She should just go on vacation and come back in 2016 when anyone actually gives a shit.

[morningfog]

8. I wish she would!

Not campaigning, eh? Yet filling the overflow twice in one day? Which is it?

[Garrett78]

9. While it's absurd to suggest Clinton is tanking...

Last edited Mon Sep 21, 2015, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

I'd agree it's equally absurd to suggest that Clinton isn't campaigning yet.

DU posters say the darndest things.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

17. She's not spending a dime of her campaign warchest

Which is smart, of course, because she wants to use it against the real threat: the eventual Republican nominee. Not against Senator Sanders.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Garrett78]

19. She's spending a lot of time and money campaigning in the primary.

Of course Clinton still has plenty to spend in the general, but it's downright crazy to suggest she isn't currently campaigning. Unless daily speeches, advertising and the gathering up of super delegates somehow doesn't qualify as campaigning.

Not normally one to use emoticons, but holy s**t, people.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

34. What she's done so far is 10% of her total campaign spend

Most of that will be buying ads for the fall.

I didn't say she wasn't campaigning. She is. But she's saving her money for the final push - and to use against Republicans.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Garrett78]

38. No, but Sonder did.

And you claimed she hasn't yet spent any of her war chest, which of course she has. But, yes, she still has plenty and will bring in more. Big banks and others with loads of money have always loved Clinton. Money won't be an issue in the general election. The election boils down to who can win the handful of battleground states, most notably Florida.

[Brock Kentman]

66. She's going to be increasing her burn rate

and the burn rate will be soon unsustainable and will get her in debt again.

[merrily]

26. LOL! She's been campaigning since at least 1985.

[magical thyme]

36. she announced back in the spring and has had 3 or 4 reboots since then.

Not to mention, what Merrily said!

[NCTraveler]

6. Tanking and still a virtually unchallenged front runner.

Her closest opponent hasn't even entered the race. And what people don't want to discuss with respect to her polling trend line is that it's greatest increase of decline for Hillary coincides with the Biden surge. If Bidens support breaks two to one for her the trend line would look very solid with a gradual decline you would expect from someone who starts at close to seventy percent. I truly fail to see the tanking. Biden is popular. I have yet to talk to one person who thought she would hold her numbers where they were.

[NanceGreggs]

7. Yeppurs!

The undisputed front-runner is "tanking" - meaning she's still the undisputed front-runner.

But thanks for playing!

[sheshe2]

10. Tanking~

George Takei endorses Hillary Clinton for 2016

[Romulox]

50. Not good enough, George.

[Brock Kentman]

67. Takei is going to reverse his endorsement soon

[mcar]

11. Logic

DU style. She's tanking cause some people on the Internet say she is. So there.

[oasis]

14. Hillary will be THANKING her campaign workers after Super Tuesday

when her delegates are all wrapped up with a bow on top.

Oh wait....you said "TANKING".

[mcar]

31. LOL

[LondonReign2]

62. Facts

Yep. She is positively SOARING!

[jeff47]

13. This is not the picture of a healthy campaign

Yep, she's still on top. But that cliff at the end is not good.

[Ed Suspicious]

15. Oh, but cut that down to a week or two and you reveal the hidden magic!

If I were running her campaign, I'd in no way be happy by what that chart reveals. If I were running Bernie or Joe's campaign, I'd be ecstatic looking at that trend-line.

[NanceGreggs]

71. I'd say that ...

... still being the front-runner is a pretty healthy sign.

[jeff47]

72. Only if Team Clinton can stop that cliff at the end.

And so far, it doesn't look like Team Clinton is able to. We'll see over the next few months.

I really do not understand why they were so dumb as to use "inevitable" a second time. Making the campaign about the case for Clinton instead of "why are we bothering to have a primary?" is a far stronger campaign.

[Flatpicker]

16. I just don't

Think she's likable enough to carry the nom.

Capable? Sure. (within reason as a less right of center candidate than the R's)

But, she doesn't have Bill's charisma. She comes off as aloof.
I don't think that's going to fly with the general electorate.

[merrily]

27. More importantly, the general. The more exposure people have to her, the more her #s have decreased

This happened in 2007-08, it happened when she went on her book tour and it's been happening again.

There is a reason her campaign has been limited thus far and fighting for only 4 debates. But, should she be the nominee, I don't think she can keep getting away with "thoughtful discussions" with small groups. She is going to have be out there a lot.

[nitpicker]

30. I recall 2007

There was a Democratic candidate event on a military base, where Hillary's vehicle got a whole parking lot to itself.

The other candidates entered the base on a bus.

Now, of course as a FLOTUS and after Hillary has had the option of Secret Service protection since 1992. No wonder she appeared to be insulated from the masses. This time is not much different, with also the increase in campaign financing "limits" playing its role.

At this moment, polls (other than IA/NH) indicate that Hillary has support from half, with Sanders supporters and Biden-hopers splitting the other half (with a few diehards preferring others). However, her campaign's wooing of the "superdelegates" puts up barriers that only a strong opponent can overcome.

But ANYTHING can change in two or three months. Walker is "gone", Christie nearly so, and anyone who foresaw the rise of the Republican non-perpetual politicians must have been hoping for something of the sort. By the end of the year, the Democratic race may be also altered.

[merrily]

33. When your campaign has to change direction to plan spontaneity and "heart," you just might have

an issue.

[magical thyme]

37. when your campaign spends $4M on advertising in NH and your polls drop as a result

you know you have a problem.

Theoretical Hillary is one thing. Hillary on your teevee talkin' at you is another.

[kenfrequed]

54. Exactly.

Whereas the more people have contact with Bernie the more the enthusiasm builds.

[SoapBox]

21. So how many 25,000 person rallies has she held?

Oh ya...ZIP.

But hey, let her keep going with her $2700 per plate private fundraisers, her invitation only "listening" meetings and/or invitation only "conversation" meetings...and that "roped off" thing (what kind of a jackass thought they could get away with that...and she didn't stop it!)

No mind her flying around in that private "loaner" jet, the huge spending on ads (article just here on DU) and spending on staff (another recent article)...her spinning like a weathervane...well...

If, IF, she ended up as the Democratic candidate...she will lose in the general. There are SO many in this country that will have all the reasons that they don't like her, brought back to their memories. My neighbors in SoCal get all red in the face when I bring her up...I also travel for work and boy, people don't just dislike her, they hate her.

So the DNC, DWS, all the Entrenched Establishment Crowd will be directly responsible for a PukeBagger in the White House and for them totally controlling D.C.

[Lorien]

46. The DNC would much rather have a republican win

than a pro labor/ pro environment liberal.

[hifiguy]

70. It's true.

The institutional Democratic party started being sold off to oligarchs in the 1990s. By the DLC and the Clintons, for their own personal benefit. The plutocrats couldn't abide the jebus-wheezers in the Repig party any longer and the DINOs were more than willing to sell them the party so the could feather their own nests. And the Clintons were at the front of the line to sell us out and take the $$$$$.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Hi

[ismnotwasm]

39. No, she isn't

That's pretty funny though

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Yep.....

[Raine1967]

43. She's not tanking.

Scott Walker tanked, Rick perry tanked.


Clinton is not tanking. She isn't surging either.


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/09/trump-still-leads-iowa-clinton-in-good-shape.html

This is not tanking.

And for the record, I am an O'Malley supporter.

And yes, I would like to see Martin doing better in the polls. To say she is tanking is not really the case, she (maybe?) is slowing down…


A 30 point plus lead is not tanking.

[Lorien]

45. Read the fine print. They polled less than 400 people

all over 50, all with land lines.

[Lorien]

44. Now she has fake CNN polls on her side

taking a page out of the GOP playbook; if you can't win on the strength of your ideas, CHEAT!

[grahamhgreen]

48. As a Bernie supporter, I've got to say I like where Hill is heading, especially on Keystone.

[Maedhros]

52. Don't get too excited.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122147/hillary-clinton-has-hired-former-keystone-pipeline-lobbyist

Hillary Clinton has hired a former lobbyist for the company behind the Keystone XL pipeline, further upsetting environmentalists who have long been wary of her commitment to fighting climate change.

BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith reported on Wednesday that the Clinton campaign has hired Jeffrey Berman as a campaign consultant. Berman, who began working for the campaign earlier this month, once lobbied on behalf of TransCanada, the company that hopes to build a pipeline carrying tar sands oil from Canada to the southern coast of the U.S.
. . .
"For us it’s a signal that she continues to be willing to work with oil and gas interests and take money from folks who are committed to have a pathway to fossil fuels," said Ben Schreiber, Friends of the Earth's climate and energy program director.

[Lorien]

58. Oil prices are down so Keystone is on hold anyway

no political skin off her teeth.

[Romulox]

49. She's a one of the weakest candidates in recent memory, given her financier backing. nt

[DCBob]

51. Tanking?? She is comforatably ahead of all contenders... including Biden.

[AgingAmerican]

53. She was supposed to sleepwalk to the nomination unopposed!

Sanders is raining on HER parade!!

[jwirr]

68. And many of the voters she is taking for granted do not like

to be taken for granted. Minorities and women.

[olddots]

56. the only person changing people's mind about Hillary Clinton

is Hillary Clinton .

[Lorien]

57. I'm still honestly trying to understand why any non-right winger

would vote for her in the first place. The vast majority of her policy positions are far to the Right of Nixon and Eisenhower, so what is it? That she's a woman? Or is it Clinton era nostalgia? "Sports fan" type loyalty to the party establishment? Or are most of her fans just disillusioned Republicans? I only have one friend who is a Hillary supporter. He sounds like a smitten schoolgirl whenever he talks about the military (though he never served. Like Trump, he thinks his military academy was the same thing) so he loves her hawkishness. He also made a lot of money in the Clinton years and believes that she can bring about a repeat of "the good times". but as we all know, our current situation is a direct result of many of those policies. So what is it that appeals to her followers so much?

[McCamy Taylor]

60. It tells you that women still have a long way to go. Keep fighting, Clinton!

[workinclasszero]

61. Tanking = winning the nomination easy

Yep she's "tanking" alright!


Show me where Bernie's ahead of Hillary in any of the super tuesday races.

I'll wait....

[sadoldgirl]

63. At this point she looks okay

for the nomination. October will bring her to
testify to Congress, and that may cut both ways.
We will see what the debate does for her.

For Bernie the challenge is to get known as well
as she is, and to spread his message.

For GE, I fear she will lose it, because even quite
a number of democrats don't trust her, and the
millennials will sit out the election.

Unless Biden runs, we will lose, because the
DNC put all eggs into one basket.

[jwirr]

64. What you are describing is a rigged election. Votes do not

count. If this continues a lot of people are going to sleep through election day.