There is a concerted effort to make Sanders unacceptable to minorities

[cali]

It's obvious. It's been going on for months and it's as sick and disgusting as politics gets. When you have Clinton supporters pushing the meme that Bernie moved to Vermont to get away from black people, you know how low they've sunk. When you have person after person trying to make it look like Bernie's sole involvement with civil rights was marching with King 50 years ago, you know that's deliberately minimising and misrepresenting his record for purely political reasons.

And yes, I believe the Clinton campaign and its surrogates are in this up to their necks. It's reverse dog whistling. And they did plenty of dog whistling in the other direction last time around. And her supporters are falling all over themselves to push this shit all across the net.

[Renew Deal]

1. Isn't it possible for people to think for themselves?

Maybe some people don't like him for legitimate (to them) reasons.

[ibegurpard]

3. That's not what she's talking about

[Renew Deal]

8. Yes it is.

She said that the Clinton campaign is trying to make Sanders unacceptable. It's another example of Sanders supporters not being able to believe there are people that don't like him.

People can think for themselves.

[Scootaloo]

22. The very day he announced his candidacy

Clinton supporters here were screaming their heads off about the people in the crowd being largely white. In Burlington, VT. Apparently, the Senator from Vermont should have launched his campaign in Atlanta, I guess?

The next day, Sheshe2 came up with her famous "not good enough bernie" thread, where she accused him of slavery in virginia, held him responsible for the racism of the Chicago Police Department, and insisted that he was a segregationist.

Clinton supporters from Guiterrez to Carlos Danger have been standing in front of Cameras telling us how awful sanders supposedly is with people of color

It's a tactic called "poisoning the well." Sanders has low name recognition among minorities in this coutnry, and it's very evidently the hope of the clinton campaign and her supporters that the first thing minorities hear about Sanders is how fucking godawful he supposedly is for them.

Of course they can come to their own conclusions, but first impressions count for a lot. And there's obvious effort being made to ensure that the first impression is negative.

[Renew Deal]

27. Commentators on DU are not the "Clinton campaign"

Neither are random current and former congress people.

[Scootaloo]

32. Guiterrez and The weiner were speaking as campaign surrogates

And whether they are pushing the bullshit or simply hitchiking with it, the reality is that there is an effort to poison Sanders' well among minorities.

[msrizzo]

35. Exactly,

No more than commentators on DU are the Sanders campaign. Let's all at least agree on that.

[mhatrw]

160. Nope. That also must be a double standard! n/t

[gregcrawford]

86. Do the math...

... at this stage, who else could possibly benefit from such despicable attacks? Only the campaign that is most threatened by Bernie's success. The Republicans are an unholy mess, and cannot realize any gains from attacking Sanders right now.

Campaign surrogates are specifically chosen because they're NOT part of the campaign, and even in the VERY unlikely event that any of them have not coordinated their remarks with the campaign, neither has the campaign disavowed any of the attacks that they know to be bald-faced lies. The fact is, skid marks like Weiner have spoken in public, and have gotten media coverage while doing so. The damage is done.

If it walks like a duck...

[merrily]

115. Campaign surrogates, dude, campaign surrogates. That is why they exist. To say

things the candidate does not wish to say. To say things it would be imprudent for a campaign manager or worker to say.

Surely, you are not going to play brand new on this.

[haikugal]

259. Plausible deniability .....

[merrily]

260. Weeellll, not really all that plausible, when you have seen the m.o. before.

[haikugal]

263. I was referencing how Bush/Cheney liked to do the same thing...

Yeah we can see them clearly....lol....and yes, they've used the same m.o. before and I'm sure they'll keep using it for the duration until Clinton drops out.

[merrily]

264. Ah, I apologize for missing the Bush Cheney reference--but wasn't that Nixon?

Or am I confusing plausible deniability with the modified limited hang out? So many devious snakes hiding the truth, so little time.

[haikugal]

265. I'd have to look...

Nixon used it too but I don't remember the first time I heard it. You may be right, Nixon fits too. Either way it's a sorry waste of everyone's time and crooked as all hell.

[Drale]

58. The media did it to Pat Quinn here in Illinois and we got Rauner

Lets hope the same thing doesn't happen in the Presidential races

[merrily]

114. Fantastic post.

[MannyGoldstein]

149. Have I told you that you're one of DU's best writers?

Well, FWIW, I think you are.

[R B Garr]

151. People have common sense and realize that Vermont is not that diverse, so that is going

to be a topic of conversation. It's just common sense. Every candidate is analyzed according to regional and crossover appeal. Every candidate in the history of national politics is subjected to analysis of crossover appeal. This continued coddling of Bernie is really nonsensical. There is no reason he shouldn't be subjected to a rigorous review.

What's funny is that everyone is upset about the number of debates, but they want to reject any of the other traditional political competitions. It's not the voters responsibility to coddle candidates. Politics ain't beanbag. Trying to protect Bernie from scrutiny is not a sustainable position moving forward, especially in a General Election. It's Bernie's job to earn votes. it's not my job to protect Bernie.

[Scootaloo]

155. You repeated yourself several times.

This continued coddling of Bernie is really nonsensical.
There is no reason he shouldn't be subjected to a rigorous review.
hey want to reject any of the other traditional political competitions
It's not the voters responsibility to coddle candidates.
Trying to protect Bernie from scrutiny is not a sustainable position moving forward
it's not my job to protect Bernie.

You found six different ways to say that i'm "coddling" Bernie Sanders, and never once with any supportive statements. What a terrible waste of words.

But you've got my curiosity piqued. Can you explain to me how, exactly presidential candidates are responsible for the demographics of their state? Are there "right" demographics and "wrong" demographics, the way there are on policies and positions? Should presidential candidates take efforts to "correct" their home state's demographics?

[merrily]

157. Implying he is racist because most Vermonters are white is not analysis. It's bullshit.

Instead of going on about coddling and its not being your job to protect Bernie--as though anyone had ever claimed it were-- why don't you just actually engage in the rigorous analysis and review you claim to favor so much?

[mhatrw]

161. Again. you studiously refuse to mention any issues or policies

on which you or those who "think for themselves" prefer Clinton's stances to Sanders' stances.

So what "traditional political competitions" are you referring to? Beauty pageants?

[R B Garr]

227. This OP isn't about "issues." The "issue" I posted about is the "issue" in this OP N/T

[mhatrw]

248. So you admit that you do not prefer Clinton's stances

to those of Sanders on any issues. What I like most about Clinton supporters on DU is their complete consistency on this point.

[R B Garr]

252. So you admit you didn't read the OP.

Okay.

[PotatoChip]

168. Maine is whiter than Vermont, yet President Obama received 59.30% in the 2008 Primary here.

And check out Vermont. They were pretty much the same with 59.31% for Obama in the 2008 Primary.

Vermont Democratic presidential primary, 2008[5]
Candidate Votes Percentage Delegates[2]

Barack Obama 91,901 59.31% 9
Hillary Clinton 59,806 38.59% 6
John Edwards 1,936 1.25% 0
Dennis Kucinich 1,010 0.65% 0
Write-in candidates 307 0.20% 0
Totals 154,960 100.00% 15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Democratic_primary,_2008

If this rural white region is willing to vote for a black man from Chicago over Hillary from nearby NY, what makes region so important in this current Primary? The lack of diversity here had nothing to do with who we voted for, obviously. So why should a white candidate from this region be held to a different standard?

[cascadiance]

176. Oh, I guess we should have voted for Romney in last election because he came from a liberal state...

... in Massachusetts. Same difference! Do those here pushing the "white Vermont state" BULLSHIT REALLY believe we should vote for or against a politician purely because of their state's demographics?

[Scuba]

131. The two ideas are not exclusionary.

[840high]

217. It's not that simple.

[Armstead]

9. There are many legitimate reasons peope might disagree with him or not like him

But claiming that he doesn't give a shit about racial issues or social justice aint one of them.

[Renew Deal]

13. Not to you...

I don't agree with the social justice vs economic justice arguments being used against Bernie. I think Bernie's economic justice message is legitimate and lifts everyone. But there are people that disagree.

[Armstead]

24. If it were a real discussion of that in real and specific terms, it could be legitimate

But it started out on a poisonous distortion about Sanders, and therefore the real issues got obscured and distorted from an actual dialogue based on facts.

The arguments about the issues raised by him being a "socialist" are at least based on reality.

An honest discussion of priorities might make sense.

But this crap that's floating around is accusing him based on the opposite of the values and principles he has dedicated his life to. Sometimes it seems like he and his supporters are being painted as adherents of David Duke.

[jwirr]

106. And that is fine but that is also different than saying that

an almost all white crowd in VT, NH and IA is a reason not to vote for anyone. They are by far white states and Hillary is getting the same crowds in those states.

As far as ignoring what many of us have done in the past regarding racial justice issues. It is a good point if it is BLM saying it to illustrate that we are still facing the same damn issues. Yes, a lot of us who worked back then are very aware that the victory of that day has steadily eroded over the years and even gotten worse. But that does not reflect on what our stance today is. Many of us including Bernie and Hillary are still trying to move forward. It is a false meme that Bernie in particular has done nothing over the years.

This does not mean that people cannot make up their own minds - but like everyone else they need all the facts not just what a competitor wants them to know.

I laughed about the idea of him moving to Vermont to get away from black people. Bernie is an old 60s activist - has anyone heard of the back to earth movement? We moved away from cities to try to survive on our own away from the system that was pro-war, pro-corporate and pro-greed. A little like a lot of us would like to do today.

The good news to me is that people of color, like women are doing, will make up their own minds and they are not stupid. They will seek the answers they need by learning about the candidates not just by what someone else wants them to think.

[cali]

16. yes. I believe hill supporters are doing some of this disgusting shit all on their own

And I believe the Clinton campaign and assorted surrogates are also doing it. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Renew Deal]

21. I think your post is dismissive of the very real concerns of minorities.

You seem to think that people can't think for themselves and conclude that Sanders isn't in their best interest.

[cali]

25. yes, I'm sure you do. it is not. I'm not dismissing legitimate concerns from BLM

or other activists. I'm referring to folks that are deliberately trying to undermine Sanders for political purposes.

[NCTraveler]

50. You nailed it here. They can't think for themselves. Some truly believe that.

They have no clue how that thought process is entrenched in privilege and how offensive it really is.

[beam me up scottie]

51. You mean like the HC supporter who said Hillary owns minorities?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251603541


Do tell.

[NCTraveler]

53. We could sit here and post links all day. Nice deflection.

Your mentor is much better at this.

Please show me where I ever supported that op. Thanks.

[beam me up scottie]

55. You mentioned supporters who say minorities can't think for themselves, I was just helping.

[NCTraveler]

56. I greatly appreciate your help and the fact you agree that it is in very bad form. nt.

[mhatrw]

162. Yeah, Clinton's white supporters don't have any white privilege!

I have a little experiment for you. Ask your favorite white Clinton supporters why they think POC should vote for Clinton. Then, regardless of how they respond, attack them for not understanding or giving enough credence to the very real and urgent problems of institutional and personal racism. Be sure to call them out on the fact that they have no right to champion Clinton to any POC. Tell them that they just don't get it, and that the reason they just don't get it is because of their all-consuming. unconscious, ingrained white privilege. Then be sure to get back to all of us about how they react to this.

[dogknob]

46. Of course it's possible, but realistically difficult given a 24-hour day.

This election will be decided largely by people who rely upon the corporate media for information because, by cultural design, they do not have the time -- required by their survival-based schedules -- to hunt for the Herzogian* "ecstatic truth."

Being aware of flagrant propaganda from the handful of Bros who own the media does not automatically make one immune to it.

*Yeah, I made up a word. Sue me

[A Simple Game]

124. Oh yeah, just like the Koch brothers did for Walker.

The times they are a changing.

[Plucketeer]

59. LOL!

IF.... that were the case - we wouldn't have to endure MONTHS of stupid, defamatory media campaign ads!

[restorefreedom]

76. then lets talk policy

not rehashed false racist bullshit designed to alienate poc.

there are plenty of policy differnces between sanders and clinton.

and there are many here who are trying to talk about them. but it is too much to think that we are going to let filthy smears and fear mongering go unanswered.

[haikugal]

262. They don't alienate just POC with this crap...they once a split in the party with it.

I've never seen so much racist nonsense on a political forum ever! People have been turned off and won't talk about some issues because when they try they are met with aggressive racist stereotypes and told to sit down and shut up....and the people doing it aren't even people of color themselves. WTF?

It's racist on so many levels....

[randys1]

77. It is almost as if some folks dont think some folks can think for themselves.

[LondonReign2]

228. Disingenuous. Again

[sibelian]

79. Not really seeing how anyone can think for anyone ELSE....

... I think that's one of thise "right to opinion" phrases, isn't it?

[merrily]

113. Both are possible. The Clinton campaign can be pushing an agenda and people can think for themselves

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

The Clinton campaign pushed an agenda against Obama in 2008. It worked with some people, not with others and made many turn against Hillary. Both things are possible.

[mhatrw]

159. Sure, like what?

The problem is that they never explain what those reasons are, at least not in terms of issues or policies.

[Snotcicles]

2. And GDP is chock full of it, with new arrivals welcomed everyday with open arms. nt

[daleanime]

4. Close, it should be 'There is a concerted effort to make Sanders unacceptable....

period.'

Although, yes, they are definitely pining their hopes on creating a chasm between natural allies.

[virtualobserver]

5. It is getting old, but it won't actually work

it is depressing to see, though

[TM99]

6. Yes, there is!

It is concerted. It is obvious. I just commented on another thread where research showed me the woman now calling Sander's supporters racist and him tone deaf was a PUMA in 2008. Fucking disgusting and yet so typical.

[hootinholler]

45. Woah

I missed that one, can you share?

[TM99]

49. Here is my post in that thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=616185

[hifiguy]

73. That says it all.

The false propaganda being spread around here is getting so thick you need hip boots.

[HooptieWagon]

138. Bingo!

[Fawke Em]

7. Well, it's not working from where I sit.

Between the local Bernie group and my Twitter feed, I see more and more PoC signing up to support him every day.

I know what the polling suggests and that my experience is anecdotal, but I also know that a majority of PoC have never even heard of him or don't know enough about him, yet, to form an educated opinion.

[arcane1]

14. The goal is for people to first hear of him as "the guy black people don't like"

It's not working very well. Now it's so absurd that they're out there saying some black people don't count.

[AtomicKitten]

10. The race-baiting trolling here has become a cartoon.

[arcane1]

11. It began on DAY ONE of his candidacy, too. And that includes right here on DU.

It's my suspicion that the Plan all along was to discredit Sanders as a racist, and to specifically accomplish this before the debates.

[AtomicKitten]

17. You are correct.

This is the first missive in the race-baiting trolling here at DU, posted the day after he announced his candidacy in Vermont.

---> http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

[beam me up scottie]

23. That was the most despicable race baiting op I've seen in a long time.

Even other HC supporters called her out over that.

She followed it up with this one which got hidden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251461135

[AtomicKitten]

28. Good lord, I missed that gem entirely.

The ugly is strong in that one.

[beam me up scottie]

31. This one was even worse - anti-Semitic and uses racial slurs to calls Bernie a racist:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371

[AtomicKitten]

43. Hillary's racist 2008 campaign nearly ripped this site apart & they are doubling down on the ugly.

For some inexplicable reason, the proprietors of this website enable the race-baiting trolling simply by virtue of not shutting it down themselves.

[beam me up scottie]

44. And we're labeled bullies for calling them out on it this time around.

[hifiguy]

75. But, but, but bmus,

IT'S HER TURN!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

89. Tired of this bullshit. We have every right to defend our candidate against smears.

[hifiguy]

99. They're so desperate and demented

because all they've got is nonsense they pulled out of their own asses. Bernie's record, and the man himself, are as clean as a hound's tooth and there's a 50-year record of what he has ALWAYS stood for. If there's one thing Bernie isn't it's a weathervane.

He yam what he yam and always has been.

[GoneFishin]

146. +1. yep.

[SusanCalvin]

97. Good grief.

Sounds like extreme personal dislike, for whatever reason. That's hides I agree with.

[beam me up scottie]

100. The anti-Semitism is even worse at hillaryclintonsupporters.com

http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=559

[grasswire]

135. have to register as a Clinton supporter to view that site

...and that ain't gonna happen!!

[beam me up scottie]

137. They hid the site after it was exposed here.

From what I've seen it's just like the Cave but members use their DU names.

[Maedhros]

36. I've ignored that poster for a looooonnnnnngggg time.

Good to see that my decision to do so was correct.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Good choice, many others have done the same thing.

[sibelian]

88. Wow. Missed it.

thankfully...

[beam me up scottie]

91. There have been others but that was the most notorious example.

[sibelian]

93. I still don't have her on ignore.

I'm somewhat surprised she hasn't been tombstoned.

[beam me up scottie]

96. I don't have anyone on ignore. I prefer to see what they're up to and call it out.

[SusanCalvin]

98. And you miss whole subthreads.

For a while I had *no* idea what was going on here.

[beam me up scottie]

103. Oh DU is fascinating if you're paying attention.

Some of these feuds go back years and years.

[hifiguy]

101. Same here.

Best to keep an eye on them and rebut them hard and fast with actual facts.

[beam me up scottie]

104. Exactly.

[sibelian]

110. Oh, I used to do that...

But it got unbelievably tedious.

My options were...

1. Go subthread on their ass (many of them post just to waste your attention),
2. Watch them lie and spin and squirm and squeal and shriek and wail and moan and gnash their teeth and strike attitudes and pretend they don't remember things and pretend what you're saying means something it doesn't and splurt middlebrow drivel all over the place while silently fuming...
3. Live a peaceful life.

I went for 3.

Anyway, most of them don't come anywhere near my threads any more. Also, they tend to give up on subthreading with me fairly rapidly.

Maybe I'm just too horrible.... hehehe

[beam me up scottie]

111. You're horrible in an awesomely wicked kind of way.

[sibelian]

175. awwww, STOP iiiiit...

Shucks...

[Ed Suspicious]

133. I get too angry without ignore. I'm afraid for my health and wellbeing without it.

[beam me up scottie]

134. Their hatred inspires me.

Although it is bad for my health too.

[hifiguy]

105. Your "Rant By a HRH Supporter"

was hysterical. Could you please provide a link to that? Not that I have a problem with that.

[sibelian]

179. ... 'tis here, kind sir.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251551771

[hifiguy]

243. Thanks. That I am bookmarking.

[JackInGreen]

152. Oh....her

Yeaaah....my wife tends to refer to them as 'the crazies', and says I should pay no attention.
smart ginger, my other half, I'm glad to see her opinion reflected here by allies.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

209. Ack.

I hate it when I accidentally hit the rec button when I mean to check who actually did rec something nasty. Thank goodness the site lets you remove accidental recs.

[beam me up scottie]

236. I've done that too!

I always panic a little before I remember it can be undone.

[cui bono]

273. Wow! I never saw that one!

So glad I'm not that full of hate. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for that one. Must live a sad and bitter life.

Not surprised by the reccing crew.

[jeff47]

61. That was actually a blog post that was copied onto DU.

And just to make the story even more entertaining, the blogger is white.

[hifiguy]

74. Yet they are still allowed to post.

Things that make you say hmmmm.

[AgingAmerican]

12. Yep another spate of race baiting threads today

Same shit recycled over and over.

[MoveIt]

215. And they alert stalked cali into a time-out

rinse and repeat until all reality-based voices are drowned out with picture threads of half-empty auditoriums for Hillary!

[NCTraveler]

15. Hi cali,

"reverse dog whistling"

[beam me up scottie]

18. It started the day he announced he was running and never slowed down

[Vattel]

19. I don't know if Clinton is behind it, but I agree with you that it is sick and disgusting.

[Maedhros]

37. If one asks "cui bono?" there is really only one answer...[n/t]

[zappaman]

20. Yes! Don't those minorities know he marched with MLK???

Man, they are so easily duped, aren't they?
I just wish minorities could think for themselves...

[cali]

29. thanks for the illustration. And try reading

Oh never mind. Just go back to cheering on the candidate who has employed racism for political purposes.

And that's fucking fact.

[TM99]

42. No, most of them do not know this kind of information

about Sanders and his history.

He is not the Senator or Rep from their state. He has not been in the national public eye like the Clintons have for the last 30 years. And those younger than 35 likely have no idea that he was a huge supporter of Jesse Jackson's presidential run in the 1980's.

Like any group of American voters, most are low-information voters easily manipulated and swayed by the media. Many are focused on their lives and rarely on politics. Attributing the magical power of superior political awareness on minorities is irrational.

[TM99]

256. There what is?

Why so smug? I am bi-racial.

Do you honestly believe that AA's are that uniquely different than other voting blocks in America, even other traditional Democratic minority ones?

To state this is to educate not alienate and not to act paternalistic or unduly ego aggrandizing by treating AA's as somehow a magically special voting bloc when no group of PoC are. We are not monolithic in our choices. We are not always educated as to who the better candidate is.

To pretend otherwise is as racist. I will let you figure out how and why.

[YoungDemCA]

257. Forgive me, I think I understand where you're coming from now

It was wrong of me to say that. I am deleting that post.

I agree, no group is monolithic. But the implication that being more educated about the candidates will lead more voters to Sanders is something I will disagree with. You are free to disagree with me, of course.

[TM99]

258. It is ok, really.

You are indeed now understanding what I mean.

And yes, we may disagree with each other that Clinton or Sanders is the right candidate that will lead more voters, but I know we agree that education is important. And we must never treat even our own community as monolithic. For me that is objectification which is a step towards far worse things.

Thanks for your reply, and I do not think you need to delete your post.

[Metric System]

26. Sanders supporters did their own damage and earned their reputation with their behavior on Twitter

and social media. I saw the condescending, snarky and nasty tweets directed at BLM and its supporters.

[cali]

33. bullshit. the lying started the minute he announced. And it hasn't just been about

His supporters

But maybe you think it's valid to suggest Bernie moved to Vermont because he's a racist.

[Skwmom]

34. Of course, those billionaires don't have enough money to pay people to troll twitter.

[HooptieWagon]

39. And you know those are Sanders supporters because?

It looks to me like more Clinton dirty tricks. The kind of stuff a campaign does when it has millions to spend hiring David Brock and similar goons.

[Metric System]

64. Yep, the Clintons hired people to pose as Sanders supporters all over Facebook, Twitter, etc. during

the BLM brouhaha. Yep.

[sibelian]

95. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Your cynicism notwithstanding.

[Metric System]

130. Save some of that tinfoil for the oven!

[sibelian]

172. lol!

Why wouldn't they? It's a no brainer!

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. It wouldn't surprise me, is what I'm saying.

In any case, I don't think it'll make much difference in the end whether they do or not.

[seaglass]

65. Well one of them was Sabrina1 - she posted about it here. Do you deny she is a Bernie supporter? n/t

[HooptieWagon]

136. You're saying Sabrina was mean to peep on Twitter?

I've never seen her have a mean word to say.

[TM99]

141. We all know that being mean

actually translates as saying anything contrary to the narrative or responding with a push back against lies, distortions, and bullshit.

[polly7]

170. sabrina1 mean???

That is highly, highly doubtful.

I know some people dislike the way she smashes down lies and misinformaton so calmly with her always well-researched info, and she doesn't let rudeness stop her from speaking it - if that's being mean, I feel sorry for anyone trying to debate with her. Let's face it, some people are intimidated by intelligent, passionate people who they can't deal with on the facts.

.....

a sabrina1 groupie.

[NCTraveler]

52. "Taze her. Taze her." Being yelled at Marissa

"We fixed race in this country." Being yelled at Marissa.

Yet it is Hillary and her supporters. Facts be damned to some.

[TM99]

178. You have links to prove these assertions right?

I hear this over and over, but I have yet to see the proof of it.

[NCTraveler]

180. The video and audio have been posted her over and over again.

It is amazingly simple to find. It isn't hidden under a rock. Anyone truly interested has heard it at this point. After it was brought out there was then the clamoring that "it wasn't really a Sanders event." Yet before that, it was "look how many people he can draw." That aspect was actually pretty funny.

[TM99]

187. I have seen the videos.

I saw the young woman in his face. I saw her make physical contact. I did not hear anything like you are presenting. I discount it as the continued hyperbole of Clinton supporters when it comes to issues of race.

[NCTraveler]

189. Dismiss facts and that wich is in front of you all you want.

It's really no sweat off my back. Considering how amazingly easy it is to find I do not believe you are discussing this topic in honest. It is simply so well known and this is the first I have heard of someone saying they just aren't aware. Ten seconds on google would give you the facts. You don't want them.

To make it easy for you and to give you some great conversation I will pass along the link. While I don't agree with everything said, it was well worth the listen. At least you will now know what the rest of us knew since day one on this. I didn't think people missed it considering how much it was discussed.

[TM99]

191. That was her claim, yes, in the interview

that I and many others have seen.

Here is a video of the actual event with commentary by another activist.

Who shoved people in this video? Who insulted people in this video?

Yes, some people boo'ed, and they were upset when they were immediately called racists. There was never a concerted chant to tasser these young women. Not a single event organizer or other person present threatened these women. These women did threaten others.

I won't waste my time rehashing the facts of that event.

[NCTraveler]

193. You are one hundred percent wrong.

It is clear you didn't listen to the link. The audio is there. You are literally dismissing audio of the event and lying by stating it is just her claim. You obviously didn't listen to the link. It is audio. I have never seen the denial of facts like this. I gave you audio, not just her claim to the fact. Audio that includes the event itself. You would have known if you listened to it. I guess not knowing the facts and perpetuating a falsehood is more important to you that the facts. Wow.

[TM99]

194. No, it is not in the audio that I linked.

So maybe someone said it just like I heard two people say 'Don't tell me to be silent'. I did not hear a whole crowd. To take one or two instances of something and make it the whole crowd has never and will never serve our purposes.

By pushing the events the way you want based on this disturbed young woman's embellishments, a convenient meme can continue which is exactly what this OP is addressing.

Thank you so much for proving the point.

[NCTraveler]

196. Your complete dismissal of the facts is noted. Thanks.

You should listen to the audio I presented. It will shatter what you erroneously believe to be the truth. You refuse to do so, while actually making the dishonest claim it is just her saying it, when we both know you didn't listen. Really is your loss not being willing to learn the truth.

"disturbed young woman's embellishments"

Wow.

Going to post the audio for you again. I suggest you listen to the whole thing. It is well worth it. No clue why you would actually refuse to listen to something. Amazing.

At this link one of the things you will find is audio from the event itself. Marissa isn't even on the show at that point yet you say it was just her saying it. This proves you are one hundred percent wrong.

&feature=player_embedded

[TM99]

197. We are done here.

I have listened. I have been aware of BLM long before it became a campaign point on DU.

I stand my assessment of that young woman given her communications and her actions. She is an extremist. She belongs with the likes of Farrakhan. She does not represent my community. She does not speak for me. She does not speak for my father's side of my family. There are many who do that I support, respect, and admire. She is not one of them.

[cascadiance]

181. I contend we have a RIGHT to respond to those leveling INSULTS towards us...

... when we were all called "white supremacists" which was a complete BULLSHIT comment by someone who was claiming to represent BLM's views with that comment. I praise at least one who tried to speak for BLM then who was admonishing that behavior. That person should be praised for trying to reestablish the true mission of BLM being one that we were and still are ALL behind, even if we choose to call out those that try to hijack that movement to carry out their bullshit actions trying to grab attention for themselves and manufacture division that didn't exist before.

Those who defend her are basically defending those who seek to divide us, not appropriately criticizing people for responding back in a human fashion to those who would insult so many of us for invalid reasons.

Those that criticized Marisa for her horrible comments in a completely justifiable fashion shouldn't be made out to be the problem when it was her comments and behavior that were the problem to begin with.

Does that mean we admonish all acts of civil disobedience to get attention for a very valid movement like BLM has been? NO!!!! It just means that we will listen to and reward those who do it appropriately and in ways that may even challenge some of our actions that could be changed to help their movement more, and call out those that are doing more just to divide us than truly championing getting attention for a movement and challenging more people to get onboard with it. We all like that, and had that been done, we would have praised someone doing that sort of thing instead.

I've not seen anyone yelling "taze her, taze her". And if there were such comments, they certainly were as individual and reflecting lack of individual character, much as hers were reflecting her own lack of individual character, and just about everyone else would not favor such actions to respond to what she was doing.

[NCTraveler]

183. I stand with Marissa. Have since the beginning.

The comments yelled at her at the event were disgustingly racist. Marissa isn't the problem. Interesting you think she is considering she alone completely changed the platform of the current third place democrat in this election. She changed the primary for the better, elevated one of the most important issues we face today, had disgustingly racist comments thrown in her direction, and you view her as the problem. Very telling.

[cascadiance]

184. People are going to call out racism. Most of us were calling out HER racism!!!

Which is what labeling us all "white supremacists" with absolutely no basis for saying so absolutely constitutes racism as well!

Now, if some used racist epithets back towards her, that isn't excusable. But calling racism "racism" when it IS racism, is not racist in and of itself. Otherwise, many people would be inaccurately be labeling many POC as racists when they call out racism when they have reasons to do so.

So, do you consider labeling people en masse with absolutely no basis for doing so as ALL being "white supremacists" as accceptable? Huh? DO YOU? What justification is there for doing that, other than to promote more division. It certainly isn't helping POC get more allies to help fight off TRUE racism that they face that all of us want to shut down. The more you try to justify what she did, the more you isolate yourself from others within the BLM movement who have noble goals of trying to FIGHT racism, and not just push it in their own way.

[NCTraveler]

186. "Most of us were calling out HER racism!!!!"

Reverse racism. Whatever. You keep going around with "most" of you peers calling POC racists. When you say "most of us," who are you including with yourself? I'm extremely happy very few on the left take this extremely misguided position.

"if some used racist epithets back towards her"

It is not an "if" situation and you know that. Really didn't listen if you can believe it is an "if" at this point.

I really don't discuss this topic with people who preach reverse racism. Have a good day.

[cascadiance]

210. No, I am NOT calling POC racist, I'm calling that INDIVIDUAL racist for her racist words!

It depends on what you call racist!

If they are using racial epithets, etc. then I would agree with you. That does not belong here. But I've not personally seen people do that. Give us links showing that if that exists.

But when someone is saying a group of people supporting someone that has been fighting racism in this country throughout his lifetime, and who call themselves progressives because they ascribe to that same behavior are "white supremacists", then yes, that is calling a group of people who she doesn't personally know, or know of specific behavior that makes each and every one of them a "white supremacist" that word, then in my book that IS racism. Why don't you explain to us why that is not a racist comment? I'd like to try and understand how that isn't a racist comment.

Now, let me posit some more comments here. If she had come out and said instead something to the effect:

"All of you out there, though saying you support our cause, enjoy white privilege, and don't think about how you have so much which goes this and what we have to deal with each day." Now, said that way, I'd be the first one to cheer her on and thank her for trying to raise consciousness of white privilege, which is a problem with a society that has been organized with white privilege which is what contributes heavily to the problems POC feel now. I can't speak for POC's feelings in detail on white privilege effects on them, as I don't have their experience, but comments like that would be a constructive, even if confrontational comments that I think many would accept and let her tell us more.

But instead her "white supremacist" comment is a generalized statement labeling us all as a race in attendance there as being as WILLFUL in our racist attitudes as those in the KKK by saying it in such terms. Now, perhaps she didn't say it in the way she wanted to and used those words instead of phrasing something like "white privilege" the way she might have wanted to and which would have been far better received by those of us wanting to help these situations. But if that was the case, it is still her responsibility to later say that she misspoke and to state what she really intended to say that would be more constructive in the fashion I was just saying here, and to apologize those who she accused of being willful racist supremacists. I would have accepted that too, as we are all human beings and sometimes what we intend to say doesn't always come out that way. But if we own what we say, then we should apologize for it, if those words carry through a message that hurts everyone around them, including those in BLM who really want to have their message of helping POC get their rights and position of in society the way it should be. Those just locking down and in effect saying such comments are OK to say are part of the problem, not part of a solution.

You can try to go after those who responded to these comments negatively, and perhaps in some cases they've gone too far themselves, as being the bigger problem and trying to ascribe that to all of us in a generalized fashion too, but that doesn't work either. Sorry. But I'll call racists racists, no matter what color that person is, and continue to work for all people's rights, economic and social, for the vast majority of people that doesn't think and talk in such divisive manner.

[NCTraveler]

211. Reverse racism. Yeah. Think what you like.

The racists in the situation you are describing are the white lady yelling tase her tase her and the white man telling her race has been taken care of. You keep calling the POC a racist. Just keep going.

[cascadiance]

212. I don't support the white lady yelling "tase her"...

... but that ONE white person is not the rest of us or the rest of how we feel. And you STILL don't answer why that ONE PERSON's (whether she's a POC or anyone else) comment of labeling a group of people "white supremacists" is not racist. Please quit avoiding the question and trying to avoid the CAUSE of most of the behavior you are complaining about, whether those responses to that initial act were overreacting or appropriately reacting to a racist comment.

[NCTraveler]

214. No plans at all of debating the concept of reverse racism.

I find it to be disturbing that you are calling this person a racist. Really disturbing.

You are literally calling her a racist. Really bad form.

[NCTraveler]

218. A little more of the person you are calling a racist.

[cascadiance]

224. I said she made a racist comment (or call it bigoted if you want to be picky)...

The comment that has been quoted over and over again (aside from that other "racist" comment she threw out in that other video you provided), is:

http://www.ashford.zone/2015/08/bernie-sanders-blacklivesmatter-and-the-difference-between-activism-and-flaming

“You are never going to hear Bernie speak if I don’t hear silence now,” said Johnson, adding later, “Now that you’ve covered yourself in your white supremacist liberalism, I will formally welcome Bernie Sanders to Seattle.”

Now, this comment itself is unwarranted itself and it labels white people there in a broad an unspecific manner (just like white racists do in many cases to POC) and liberalism itself as being "white supremacist". Please again, explain why that notion she accuses the crowd of having "white supremacist liberalism" is not racist.

She may not be racist as a person in other contexts in a fashion that so many KKK members are who live day to day to screw up the lives of POC, which I certainly will NOT defend, and she can say anything directed to that hate group of people and I would stand with her. But that statement she uttered trying to group their attitudes with ours is pretty offensive, and to say that it isn't in effect racist to in effect ascribe their actions and beliefs to us just because we are both white is pretty disgusting, and deserved a lot of the criticism that was given back to her.

I understand, and I think most of us understand that activists have to be confrontational in many cases to be heard. Let's not confuse our dismissal of her comments as dismissing acts of confrontation to have a movement's voice heard. But there's a smart way to be confrontational to be heard and have it reach a lot of people and sink in, and there's also a stupid way (or at least a way that doesn't really help a movement, but perhaps helps more other agendas that neither the movement or other people share) to do these kind of confrontations. She chose the latter, and that is why people like her are criticized, and we cheer on those that stand up to police barricades bravely with their hands up.

[Bobbie Jo]

219. The comments in these threads

speak for themselves


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27165

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=504091

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=503212

UGLY

I STAND WITH MARRISA.

[sibelian]

92. Yyyyyeaaaaah...

I don't think calling people white supremacists and being reacted to as if you're kind of a douchebag is a terribly good position from which to claim the moral high ground.

We all remember it, Metric System. We were all here, posting about it.

"Condescending", eh?

Perhaps you've forgotten?

[mhatrw]

163. Newsflash: Most White People Suffer From White Privilege

Assuming that the folks representing themselves as Sanders' white supporters here, on DK. and on twitter are actually Sanders' white supporters and not right wing trolls, there are a number of Sanders supporters who have a lot to learn about racism and white privilege.

But does anyone here actually believe that Hillary Clinton's white supporters understand racism any better or suffer from white privilege any less than Sanders' white supporters?

If so, I have a little experiment for you. Ask your favorite white Clinton supporters why they think POC should vote for Clinton. Then, regardless of how they respond, attack them for not understanding or giving enough credence to the very real and urgent problems of institutional and personal racism. Be sure to call them out on the fact that they have no right to champion Clinton to any POC. Tell them that they just don't get it, and that the reason they just don't get it is because of their all-consuming. unconscious, ingrained white privilege. Then be sure to get back to all of us about how they react to this.

[polly7]

169. But

they suddenly lose that ingrained white privilege. At least, that's what I've learned from reading here and over there. Poof! It disappears like magic, and they're now able to go all OTT accusing others who vote for someone they're afraid of winning of having it, including the candidate (among the other really disgusting things he's been accused of).

But it's simple ...... say you're voting one way, and you no longer have white privilege - it's like being born again.

[HooptieWagon]

30. It appears to be organized.

Organization takes funding. Now what candidate has millions to spend on a disinformation campaign to Swiftboat Sanders? I'll give you 3 guesses, and spot you the first two.

[Skwmom]

40. It's two prong - turn off minorities and turn off whites. You get a lot of bang for the buck.

I love the Bernie Groups with all those nameless "supporters." When you can turn off both minorities and whites you are doing a bang up job.

Here's to hoping it backfires.

[Eleanors38]

60. How much of this well-poisoning there is, I don't know. But the biggest...

...component to any "success" is the persistent margianalization of Sanders by MSM. This keeps Sanders a blank slate for any smear which might be scrawled on the board. Pardon my mixed metaphor.

[Skwmom]

90. There is a lot...

[Nitram]

41. I don't there is such an effort.

But keep saying that, because it'll look good on your list of excuses when Bernie loses. Along with "the media are against him" and "Hillary won because she's in thrall to the corporations."

[ion_theory]

47. It's one of the many problem in all of politics today.

Though it is a competition, it is treated more like a sporting, high school competition than one for someone who is going to be the leader of the "free" world. When you aren't able to win an election on just your policies, you shouldn't be running IMO. Bernie has said from day one he will not run any type of negative campaign, and he has kept that promise. The Clinton machine will always say things like, "It's our supporters not us" or differ to her Super-PAC. We truly do need a political revolution in this country and Hillary isn't the one to get us there.

[Peace Patriot]

48. Yup.

[JoePhilly]

54. More war on Christmas.

[Ed Suspicious]

70. "LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!" some cry, while at the same time trashing a good man's name.

But that's just imaginary.

[reformist2]

57. This was the first time I've ever seen NYC liberals moving to Vermont described as "white flight"!

Simply amazing.

[Eleanors38]

62. Does seem a tetch peculiar. I can see a vacation home. But Sanders?

[reformist2]

63. White families moving from the Bronx to Westchester or New Jersey - that was white flight.

Liberal hippies moved to Vermont to get back to nature, smoke weed, and get away from the fuzz. A completely different phenomenon.

[Eleanors38]

66. My reading, too.

[jfern]

112. Yes, it's usually reserved for migration within a metro area

Many cities have the central city losing population while the suburbs grow. Vermont is not a suburb by any means.

[jeff47]

67. It seems like Clinton only learned one thing from 2008

"Must win black voters" seems to be the only thing she learned from 2008.

[SoapBox]

68. It's Trickle Down...

Camp Weathervane leads by example...the little people follow the lead.

Pathetic.

[iandhr]

69. There is also an issue.

That many Sanders supporters refuse to acknowledge that they caused damage to their own candidate. Many of his supporters on twitter took to lecturing the BLM folks. This has harmed his attempt to reach out to black voters.


And that is why his supporters are whiter then the crowed at a hockey game at UVM.

My guess is that if he were to admonish his supporters on twitter lecturing African Americans saying they do not speak for me his standing in the polls would go up.

[Bluenorthwest]

78. The problems with that is that on twitter or other social media people self identify as they wish

and to any end they feel like seeking. If I type to you 'I am a gorgeous genius and I like pie' and your reaction is that gorgeous geniuses like pie you are just a chump. A chump.

During 2008 primary, Obama was against marriage equality. The posts I read on the internet by 'Obama supporters' were so bad I don't want to repeat them. If I had been a chump and believed that those rat fuckers were actually representative of Obama supporters I'd never have voted for Obama in one million years. And yet I did. Because I am not a chump.

On the internet people say 'I am a Sanders supporter' or 'I am a Nigerian Prince' depending on which one gets them that day's brass ring.
Additionally, it is fully possible to meet a raging asshole who is in fact a supporter of any and all great candidates. To be elected takes millions of people, any group of millions will have plenty of authentically vile persons. To judge the candidate or their coalition by the fact that Donnie McClurkin is a raging bigoted asshole would be the act of a chump, a patsy, a mark.

[iandhr]

118. No doubt

All I was saying is that Bernie Sanders could do his campaign a service by distancing himself from folks that that.

[ReactFlux]

116. thanks for helping illustrate the point

[Gothmog]

71. People are pointing out a pattern that exists on DU as well as the real world

Sanders supporters are hurting his case. According to that online quiz/test, Sanders' positions are closed to my positions and I personally like Sanders. I could support Sanders if I thought that he was viable in the general election. However, I am turned off by the conduct of the Sanders supporters on DU and the conduct described in the Washington post article

Instead of addressing the issues that such conduct is creating, it is easier to blame the article on a conspiracy to oppose Sanders. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. There is a problem and refusal to recognize that a problem exists will hinder the Sanders supporters in their attempts to convince people to support Sanders.

[sibelian]

83. Yes, you've said that before.

But you still haven't told me why his popularity has been rising during all of this.

If his cause is being damaged... what is it that is actually being damaged?

Because it isn't his ratings.

[Gothmog]

107. Lets see how Sanders does in states where there are less than 90+$ white voting populations

I call to your attention that Texas has almost three times the number of DNC delegates as Iowa and New Hampshire combined.

[sibelian]

171. ... I'm sure we'll find out.

[Gothmog]

173. Yes we will

I saw some Texas polling and Sanders is above the 15% threshold and so he may get a few delegates from Texas

[Ed Suspicious]

84. How, specifically, would you like us to behave? What are some examples of the more active

Sander's supporters on this site having wronged you? Are you equally upset when a Clinton supporter somehow wrongs another person? Would that cause you to consider not voting for Clinton?

[Gothmog]

102. I was told by a Sanders supporter that I am bad parent because my daughters are supporting Clinton

I am in the demographic that is supporting Sanders but I am turned off by the concept that I am a bad parent if my children do not support Sanders. I am proud of my children who are all strong Democrats who make me feel conservative at times. I am also turned off by being told that I am not a real democrat if I do not support Sanders. I live in a red state and viability is an important issue to me but I am attacked for asking for someone to explain to me how Sanders will be viable in the general election where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will be spending another billion dollars. Calling some names is not a good way to win their support.

While I am not a member of this demographic group, I am concerned about the attacks on the members of the AA board. 1Strongblackman is a fellow lawyer who I have exchanged PMs for years. The attacks on other members of the AA board fit into the same pattern described in the Washington post article.

I will support the nominee but I am far less likely to support Sanders during the primary process now even if my questions as to viability are ever answered. I am working very hard to turn my state blue and the Sanders supporters should note that Texas has almost three times the number of delegates as Iowa and New Hampshire combined. It is impossible for Sanders to be the nominee without doing well in the Super Tuesday primaries.

[HooptieWagon]

142. The AA forum wasn't attacked.

Each suspended member had 5 posts hidden by randomly selected juries of 7 people. Although there is some odds of getting a 'bad' jury, a reasonable person would consider toning down their language after 2 or 3 hidden posts, but they doubled down instead. That's not the fault of, nor is it attack from, Bernie supporters.

[Gothmog]

143. Have you heard of the concept of alert swarming?

[HooptieWagon]

145. Yes, but it still has to get by 35 jurors and a review...

... Before the poster is suspended. There is very little likelihood a suspension is unwarranted. All a poster has to do is be more cautious after the first couple hides.

[polly7]

167. I sure have.

Cali gets it every time she posts.

And someone said here that people are being alerted on left and right for referring to all those on that nicer Hillary site.

Cali's post didn't deserve to be hidden, but someone or someones have their finger on speed click every time she posts a bit of truth. I just wonder what they're so afraid of.

[winter is coming]

250. How many times does Skinner have to say that alert stalking is a myth?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598712

[Gothmog]

109. I am supporting Clinton but I like many of the ideas and positions of Sanders

I believe in nominating someone who is viable in the general election contest. I have asked repeatedly for an explanation as to how Sanders is viable and the answers that I have received are not satisfactory.

If you want to win support, stop calling anyone who is not supporting Sanders names. Under your analysis the vast bulk of the Democratic party base would qualify as corporate democrats or members of the DLC. Name calling is not an effective means of winning support. The bulk of the party is supporting Hillary Clinton according to the polls and you are not going to convert these Democrats by calling them names.

[beam me up scottie]

122. You just praised and defended Froma Harrop - a racist who called Obama an "exotic" on another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=616899


Please don't lecture anyone else on what's acceptable, you've lost all credibility.

[Ed Suspicious]

129. In light of recent postings I'm disinclined to believe your are posting in good faith. Thanks for

your time, but I'm no longer interested in your opinion.

[Gothmog]

139. You are proving the main point made in the article that is the subject of this this thread

This is from the article http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_28818555/harrop-intolerance-bernie-sanders

That's the problem with movement politics, no matter what end of the political spectrum they occupy. Movement politics tend to be narcissistic and dictatorial. They allow dissent only within a narrow philosophical band. That constrains the ability to hear through others' ears.

[beam me up scottie]

144. You mean the article by a RACIST RIGHT WING HACK that a HC supporter posted here?

The one who wrote this about Obama:

Obama’s appeal comes not from the things he says, but from who is saying them. He scores as an exotic who talks of barbershops and church socials in the flat tones you’d expect from any son of the prairie.

Had Bayh been half-Kenyan and raised in Hawaii by white grandparents from Kansas, he too would have become a political star, at least for the month of December. But he is a conventional white man. When Bayh speaks in the quiet Midwestern way, he gets tarred as lackluster.

...

The senator dislikes the “either-or” type of debate and warns against “false choices.” He’s not too left, not too right. Sort of black, and sort of white.

Obama is humble in all the right places. Before a thousand swooning fans in New Hampshire, he says, Evita-like: “This isn’t about me. This is about you.” One gets the impression from his public appearances and book, “The Audacity of Hope,” that he doesn’t even get a haircut without first consulting his wife.

...

What Obama really thinks should be done about healthcare and the terrorist threat remains a secret that his book does not unlock. His two years in the Senate certainly haven’t revealed any bold policy ideas.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20061226_froma_harrop_obama_scores_as_exotic_who_says_nothing

[Gothmog]

166. And yet you support using Prof. West as a surrogate for the Sanders Campaign

[Maedhros]

208. Beam Me Up Scottie has it right.

You do not post in good faith, and you are actively participating in the effort to drive a wedge between the AA group and Sanders supporters. You ask the same questions over and over, then ignore the numerous answers you receive.

There is no need for me to see any more of your nonsense either.

/bye.

[Gothmog]

220. I do not agree with your claims

You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts

[beam me up scottie]

229. Yep, that one is not worth responding to.

At least everyone can see what's going on.

[Maedhros]

238. That, and he killed my dad!

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/F%C3%ABanor

Learning of the Noldor's arrival, Morgoth summoned his armies from his fortress of Angband and attacked Fëanor's encampment in Mithrim. This battle was called the Dagor-nuin-Giliath ("Battle under the Stars&quot , for the Sun and Moon had not yet been made. The Noldor managed to win the battle and disperse Morgoth's armies. Fëanor, still in a great rage, pressed on toward Angband with his sons. He came even within sight of Angband, but was ambushed by a force of Balrogs, with few elves about him. He fought mightily, hewing his foe even after receiving several wounds from Gothmog, lord of Balrogs.

His sons came upon the balrogs with great force of elves, and were able to drive them off. However, as Fëanor was being carried off the battlefield, he knew his wounds were fatal. He was brought to the slopes of the Ered Wethrin from where he saw from afar the peaks of Thangorodrim. He cursed Angband thrice, but with the eyes of death, he knew that his elves, unaided, would never throw down the dark towers. At the moment of his death the passing of his fiery spirit reduced his body to ashes. He was the only person to die this way, for no death like his was ever seen or heard.[13]

[beam me up scottie]

244. Did you see this comment from our friend?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=588642

They seem to be obsessed with dismissing poc who support Bernie.

[Maedhros]

249. Blatantly lying and distorting facts in service of their personality cult. [n/t]

[LondonReign2]

266. Wow

That's for bookmarking all their greatest hits BMUS. Their history reveals their true colors.

[beam me up scottie]

267. No problem. People who count dark faces in crowds worry me.

[historylovr]

251. Sub-thread win!

Though I'm very sorry for the loss of your father, of course.

[Maedhros]

261. He died well!

Better than I did, casting myself into a chasm.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

150. You apparently missed that. No longer interested, boy who cried wolf.

[Armstead]

216. That would also apply to the Clinton Movement then

[Gothmog]

230. Really?

Did you read the article? Have you heard of the concept of projection? Your attacks here are amusing in that you are projecting the issues of a movement until a normal and well runned political campaign

You do know that if Clinton drops out, the bulk of the Democratic base would jump on the Biden bandwagon so fast that your head might explode. You are accusing the vast bulk of the Democratic base of the sins of the Sanders movement.

[Armstead]

235. Really

"tend to be narcissistic and dictatorial. They allow dissent only within a narrow philosophical band. That constrains the ability to hear through others' ears."

The "sins" of the sanders movement? Oh please forgive us, if we repent.

[Gothmog]

255. Again, you may want to look into the concept of projection

[hifiguy]

72. It started right here on DU a couple of days before

Bernie announced his candidacy, and the meme was being pushed like mad by the usual suspects.

[randys1]

80. Cant WAIT to see who President Rubio appoints to replace Justice Kennedy.

[LondonReign2]

185. Really? Your best answer to people pushing a false narrative about Sanders and racism is

essentially "you must want a Republican to get elected then"?

That's rather disappointing.

[randys1]

199. I am just looking ahead to the inevitability.

You see, as an actual lefty liberal, none of them are liberal enough for me and the most liberal, Bernie, will get very little actually done in the first 4 years because of the terrorists in control of the house and senate, not for ANY fault of his, but just reality.

He will set a tone that will be important for the future, but actual change will be very slow given the idiots on the other side.

I look at this as if lives WILL depend on it if ANY con is elected.

So yes, Bernie and Hillary are interchangeable to me once one of them is nominated.

period

[LondonReign2]

200. Correct me if I am wrong here, but what you are saying is

Clinton trying to stamp Sanders as a racist is sort of OK because otherwise we'll get President Rubio?

And Sanders, if elected, won't get anything done...but Clinton would?

[randys1]

201. WTF ?? I am not talking about the outrage of the day, you see, I am a big picture

person who wants to prevent dead Women in alleys, loss of voting rights for Black people and the total destruction of the environment.

To that end I support the political party which is opposing the party that is intent on doing those things.


Where is Clinton doing this again?

Surely you understand some African Americans may not be fans of Bernie for reasons you might not understand?

Unless you are one, I am not, so I defer to their experience.

[LondonReign2]

202. Ok, so we both think that in general it is a much better idea to support Democrats than Republicans

We agree on that, groovy.

That doesn't explain what appears to be your acceptance of Clinton and her supporters painting Sanders as racist. By your words (get ready for President Rubio) you seem to believe the ends justifies the means. Do I have that wrong?

[randys1]

203. Show me where Clinton supporters are painting Bernie as racist.

NOt saying you cant, I suppose there could be some.

Surely you know many Bernie supporters here on DU have lectured Black people about BLM being obnoxious and how they need to take the white persons word for it that Bernie is their pal.

This happens all the time and couldnt be more counterproductive.

As a Bernie supporter for MANY years, I find it really aggravating.

[LondonReign2]

204. Ah, ok, I see

Your position is:

-- Clinton and her supporters have not attempted to paint Sanders as a racist
-- Instead, Sanders supporters really ARE racist
-- Even if Clinton supporters did such a thing, it's justified--because President Rubio
-- Sanders isn't far left enough for you, but he is too far left to get anything done if he does get elected, but anyways it doesn't matter he is unelectable and we'll get President Rubio if we don't vote for Hillary.

Yeah, we're done here.

[MasonDreams]

81. Don't worry, Bernie's got soul. Minorities will see through the mud.

[SusanCalvin]

82. Well, what I got out of it

Is that now I know what Cornell West said. (I knew a lot of people disliked him, but I hadn't looked up or asked why.) So he does seem not the best companion, especially since I hear at least some of the basis of his vitriol was pique. (Disclaimer - what I write here is pretty much the sum total of what I know.)

The rest of the article? Innuendo, broad brush, just general unsubstantiated nastiness. I wouldn't trust the author as far as I could throw her. (Disclaimer - all I know about her is that article, but I feel that's enough.)

[NorthCarolina]

85. It won't work. It's just an act of desperation. eom

[RandySF]

87. No

[workinclasszero]

94. Bernie supporters are so off base

One, if you think the 10 or 20 pro Hillary people that haven't been driven off this board yet are "official" Clinton campaign folks..well..

Second, what goes on in DU has squat to do with the real world out there. Its amazing to me how many Bernie backers are wasting their precious time online bitching and moaning about how unfair it all is in regards to the number of debates and Bernies lack of traction with the base/bedrock of the democratic party.

You people should unplug your PC's for the rest of the year and go out into the real world and try to change peoples minds.

Its not going to happen here in this Bernie echo chamber, thats for sure!

OTOH, forget everything I just said cause you know I'm an evil Hillary backer and a corporate whore, etc.

[ReactFlux]

119. feeling the bern, eh?

OTOH, forget everything I just said cause you know I'm an evil Bernie backer and a socialist, racist, etc.

[workinclasszero]

128. Whatever you say

You guys are doing a fine job for your candidate here on DU.

Keep up the good work, see you March 1st, Tuesday 2016.

[JackInGreen]

154. From your reactions

Your name is apt.

[ismnotwasm]

108. Right...

(Hint: people of color can, and do make up their own minds the same as white folks do. With the same information. They are no more easily influenced than white people are. Some of them even like Sanders. Some like O'Malley. Some like Clinton. There are some who even vote Republican)

What's a "reverse dog whistle"? Is that anything like "reverse racism"?

[Lisa D]

140. ^^THIS^^

"reverse dog whistle"

[LondonReign2]

190. All advertising and all propaganda are attempts to pursuade

But instead of acknowledging that -- that trying to paint Sanders as a racist is merely a case of propaganda designed to persuade--your argument instead tries yet again to paint anyone as racist who points out this fact by attempting to claim they are REALLY saying "PoC can't think for themselves".

Stop it. Just stop it. NO ONE said that. NO ONE implied it (except these trying to make that specious argument).

This is yet another attempt to deflect from the Clinton race baiting and turn it 180 degrees in to implying Sanders and his supporters are racists ("They don't even think PoC can think for themselves&quot . It's pathetic.

[Gamecock Lefty]

117. I, too, am . . .

an evil Hillary backer - oligarchy, wall street, third way, etc - whatever that stuff means. Call me anything you want.

MAKE AMERICA EVEN GREATER - ELECT HILLARY!

[ReactFlux]

120. ...

[bvar22]

125. Well, if you don't understand what the words "oligarchy, wall street, third way" mean,

then I guess Hillary is right for you.

[JRLeft]

126. Translation make America more corporate

[arely staircase]

121. LOL nt

[senz]

123. Yep. Anyone who plays that dirty knows they can't win an honest contest.

[mmonk]

127. NO SHIT.

And it's from people who don't give a shit about their welfare, just their vote. And that is the sad thing or they would have looked into the Florida vote in 2000. eom.

[Babel_17]

132. From day one

If he'd have endorsed Clinton, and there'd been talk of him being on the VP short list, he'd have been hailed as a hero. Imo.

[LondonReign2]

192. IMO, there is zero chance Corporate Hillary would have considered Sanders for the VP slot

[Babel_17]

198. Serious consideration? No, not likely

I said "talk of him being on the VP short list" because that's how a smart politician wins over an opponent's supporters, after the opponent concedes to/endorses you. Unless your opponent has high negative numbers, it can be a smart move.

And that dovetails with saying nice things, in addition to the compliment of saying they're on your short list for VP, about your defeated opponent. Your opponent's supporters now start getting over any residual negative emotions and can now more easily attach themselves to your campaign.

In 2007/2008, when the less popular candidates starting dropping, talk of them being considered for VP was fairly common. Bill Richardson comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson#2008_presidential_campaign

Richardson was a rumored Vice Presidential candidate for Senator and Democratic presumptive nominee Barack Obama and was fully vetted by the Obama campaign,[54] before Obama chose Joe Biden on August 23, 2008.

Anyway, to reiterate my point, it's all about political expediency. If Sanders was looking to be a useful supporter, they'd be singing his praises over his work for justice for all people.

[LondonReign2]

232. Got it. I misunderstood your point originally

[Babel_17]

247. I see how it could be taken either way

The Clinton campaign wouldn't want to attempt to blesh with the one for Sanders.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blesh&defid=6933672!

[GoneFishin]

147. Yep. I am sure some of the shit stirrers are paid while others just really want Hillary to get the

nomination even if they have to resort to dirty smear tactics, sock puppets, and straw men arguments. But all of them are desperate and know they can't win on the issues. So they resort to this shit.

[Cheese Sandwich]

148. duh

[RandySF]

153. Neither Hillary nor Bernie is responsible.

It's the recklessness and immaturity of a small but vocal section of Bernie's supporters who are to blame. Don't point fingers after you shoot yourself in the foot.

[azurnoir]

156. the attacks began almost instantly when Bernie announced his candidacy

it is a classic propaganda maneuver, loudly distract and keep it going at all costs, hoping that no one remembers 2008 when 'someone' actually did run a racist campaign against her opponent, lately we've seen month and a half old photos of the otherwise largely forgotten Seattle incident resurrected in order to smear Bernie and yet when it comes Hillary's meeting with #BLM not a peep- ummmhmmm

[mhatrw]

158. The recipe is simple.

1) Make aggressive attacks on Sanders.

2) Demonize Sanders and all of his white supporters when any of his white supporters exhibit any of the symptoms of a condition that the vast majority white people, including the vast majority of Clinton's supporters, suffer from.

3) When any of Sanders' white supporters react defensively to the charge of white privilege, as the vast majority of white people do when they are accused of racism, claim that this is why POC will not vote for Sanders.

It's really the perfect dirty trick.

Yet nobody can name a single policy or issue affecting POC on which he or she prefers Clinton's stance to Sanders' stance.

[Recursion]

164. Yes. Unfortunately it's largely Sanders' supporters who are doing it (nt)

[romanic]

165. For real.

From day freaking one with the "look at those white-ass crowds" posts back when he announced his run for office. It only intensified with the fiasco in Seattle and an attempt to paint Sanders supporters as racists who want to crucify BLM (cause criticizing BLM is the same thing as burning crosses apparently). It's all an act, a plan to make Sanders look bad and to make it seem like black people or any other minority aren't able to support Sanders and his politics. It makes me sick.

[George II]

174. Yes, and that "concerted effort" is being done by Sanders himself.

[Indepatriot]

177. "Hardworking Americans, white Americans" are his ONLY supporters.......

Now concede and submit to the Oligarchy....

[fredamae]

182. You know "They're" using TP Tactics

Ignorant People from All sides are Believing it - They're the ones who have Actually Failed our fellow Americans. Spreading these falsehoods is no different than what This guy and the GOP are doing.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2015/09/meet-filthy-prick-who-made-planned.html

[uponit7771]

188. The OP title laughable at best

[PatrickforO]

195. They are using Karl Rove's playbook. Make a strength into a weakness.

That's what Clinton surrogates are doing. Is it working? Remains to be seen. But poisoning the well? Sure. Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

I think there are some HRC campaign people on here. In fact, I think if we saw who everyone is, we'd be pretty surprised. This meme is stupid, sure, given Sanders' record, BUT if even one person of color decides off the bat they don't like Bernie and then proceeds not to listen to anything he's saying, then the tactic worked.

How well the tactic works, though, depends a lot on us. We have to fight shit like this tooth and nail. Refute it every time.

Ultimately, PoC will listen to all the candidates and make their own decisions. Our job here is to refute the bullshit so everyone can actually get the chance to hear what each candidate says and have at least a partially open mind when hearing it.

[grahamhgreen]

205. Agreed

[DCBob]

206. There is a concerted effort to blame the Clinton campaign for Bernie's minority problems.

Its obvious...

[noiretextatique]

222. some clinton supporters are 100% behind this effort here

posting articles proclaiming "the problem" here constantly. one recent hysterical headline and article contained a statistic that completely disproved the hysterical headline. the "problem" is mostly a made-up one, that benefits only one person.

[LondonReign2]

234. If Hillary didn't have a history of using racist dog whistles she might not get such criticism

Similarly, if Clinton supporters weren't so clearly trying to paint Sanders as a racist she might not get such criticism.

Unfortunately, Clinton did try to use race against Obama in the last go around, and now here supporters are trying to use race against Bernie.

It appears that there is nothing so low that they can't figure out how to go even lower.

[valerief]

207. Ya think? It's more a symphonic effort.

[AtomicKitten]

221. “For me it's just noise. An insolent noise.” Herbert Greenleaf.

[hifiguy]

245. Well, if Beethoven had written his marvelous Eighth Symphony

for an ensemble of signal cannons, kazoo band, yowling cat chorus and the local insane asylum's banjo and anvil ensemble, symphonic might be the right word.

[noiretextatique]

223. i cannot disagree

smelled and arkansas rat from the start.

[McCamy Taylor]

225. Maybe minority voters are making up their own minds? Please consider that.

There has been a distressing amount of paternalism coming down from some folks (I will not say that they support any particular candidate because I am not convinced that all of them are who they claim to be). It involves the same general theme. (Oppressed group) should really know better than to support (Candidate X) and we are going to save them by changing their minds.

Consider that (Oppressed group) can make up its own mind, please. This member of (Oppressed group) has more political experience than most of you who are trying to tell me what to think.

[beam me up scottie]

231. This coming from the person who said blacks and other minorites "belong to Clinton"?

3. Blacks. As Toni Morrison said, Bill Clinton was the first Black president--until Obama was the first Black president. Hillary is married to one of these man, and she was Secretary of State for the other. In addition, she is Obama's anointed successor, and in 2008 she very graciously buried the hatchet at the Convention and campaigned for her primary opponent in a way that other Democratic nomination losers (see Ted Kennedy 1980) did not. Can Sanders peel away Clinton's Black support? Maybe. But people who live in fear of being shot by the police for no reason at all take politics pretty seriously. They are not likely to give up a "sure thing" in order to take a chance with something new.

4. LGBT. Last I heard, Hillary owned this portion of the base. LGBT believe that she is a member of this portion of the base. All Your LGBT Base Are Belong to Clinton, and Sanders would be advised to not even waste his time on this one.

...

6. Latinos. With Julian Castro rumored to be on board, All Your Latino Base Are Belong to Clinton. Sanders had better pick himself a Latino running mate pronto if he plans to compete for this demographic. Or better yet, suddenly discover that one of his parents is Hispanic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251603541



Hypocrisy much?

[McCamy Taylor]

239. That was an analysis, not propo aimed at voters.

When people try to peel away members of another candidate's base, that is campaigning. For instance, when people tell Black folks---"Obama was bad for you. Sanders will be better"---that is campaigning. Ineffective, shoot yourself in the foot style campaigning.

[beam me up scottie]

241. Nice dodge but your op was classic entitlement.

Last edited Thu Sep 24, 2015, 03:32 PM - Edit history (1)

And your op was beyond offensive, profiling minorities and claiming that Sanders needs to "snag" them away from the entitled Clinton is disgusting.

[Armstead]

237. All supporters of all candidates try to convince others ....

...of any race or other "group"

That's the nature of politics.

If you think that is paternalism, that's your own choice of perception.

[Romulox]

226. Most of the people doing this on DU are, themselves, white. nt

[Autumn]

233. Yes there is, it's clear to see and getting clearer everyday.

Dirty tricks, even better than the master of dirty tricks.

[McCamy Taylor]

240. Excuse me? Did anyone hold a gun to Sander's head and force him to accept the support of

someone who is on the record as disapproving of Obama? What did he think Obama's supporters would do? Nod their heads and say "How could we have been so blind?"

[beam me up scottie]

242. White HC supporters are the ones who are the most "outraged" about West's support of Bernie.

They're always looking for a way to exploit race in support of their candidate, just like they did in 2008.

If they're so concerned about black lives why do they never post about Campaign Zero?

[Autumn]

269. And I think those are the one's stirring this up when you consider that

one who considered Hillary to be "morally depraved" started supporting her and trashing Bernie on the issue of BLM as soon as it came up.

[beam me up scottie]

270. Only poc who support Hillary are acceptable.

This is what I've seen from some HC supporters here:

BLM activists speaking out about racism to Bernie Sanders = HELL FUCKING YEAH

A leading black scholar and activist who supports Bernie speaks out about racism = shut up and sit down

[Autumn]

246. No I do not excuse you. Dr. West has every fucking right to say whatever

he chooses to about Obama, he is an American citizen and a previous supporter of Obama until Obama switched his actions from his words. He was right on with his criticisms of Obama in many of those. This shit was going on before Dr. West came out and supported Bernie. Obama is out of office in Jan 2017 so I don't give a fucking flip about anyone criticizing Obama, he ain't my Daddy or my crush . If that hurts your fee fees? Tough.

[YoungDemCA]

254. NO politician in the history of the world has been 100% consistent,. Not even close.

That's a good thing. There's a word associated with rigid consistency in the face of evidence to the contrary: fundamentalism. Or dogma, if your prefer.

Adjust your expectations.

[Autumn]

268. No one is asking for anyone to be 100% consistent so your post does not

in any way address anything I said. I have adjusted my expectations to as low as they will go in the past several years , I have had enough and therefore I have raised my expectations and I proudly stand with Dr. West and Bernie Sanders.

[sabrina 1]

271. I've bee watching this talking point for a while now

and am absolutely stunned at how racist it is. To CLAIM that AAs are in some obligated to support Hillary or even Dems was beyond comprehension to me. To place an entire community into a box and speak FOR them is simply unbelievable, especially considering how many AAs war speaking for themselves, but clearly are being ignored.

I decided to let them continue pushing this meme because it really is harming their own candidate. They ought to get out in the real world and listen to what AAs out there have to say about all this. Meantime Bernie just keeps on gaining support, not wasting time on trivia or paid for talking points.

[sabrina 1]

272. Definitely initiated and perpetuated by the Hillary campaign

If anyone had any doubtw, look at where it started. Netroots Nation. A construct of Kos, who as everyone knows is a surrogate for the Third Way. I don't think there are too many people who don't know this.