Why I and many others support Bernie over Hillary

[pinebox]

I thought I'd take some time to write this.
First some background.

I'll be honest, I'm sure I'll get bashed for this but I'm not a Dem, I'm an indy who switched from the Republican party back in the early 90s after attending a Republican rally for HW Bush with some friends who happen to be gay. As a result they were ostracized and makde to feel very unwelcomed. At that point in time, I was already fed up as well.

In 1998 I married a German and moved to Germany. Non military, I lived in the country among Germans. I saw how everything was done and how efficient everything was. I saw a lot which opened my eyes. I lived in cities of several million, like Dortmund, Koeln and Dusseldorf and one thing which struck me as incredible is that I never once ever saw a single homeless person, anywhere at any time, no where. Come to find out, Germany's social system is one of the best. I started to question things and I openly started to research why my own country (America) wasn't like this.

I started following the SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany and saw what they stood for and admired it as it fit with my beliefs. This is where I started my journey.

I think many of us are sick and tired of Washington insiders. I personally see Hillary just that. Sure Bernie has been serving for many years but he's not seen in the same vain as Hillary and he basically doesn't have the controversy of polarization surrounding him that Hillary does.

When I first learned of Bernie Sanders it was roughly 10 years ago. I saw him standing up and fighting for a single payer health care system, something which Hillary has opposed. Whether or not she supports it now is irrelevant to many of us and that is the issue which many have with her, her constant "evolving" (politically correct term for "changing your mind&quot . I think many of us don't want a candidate who's evolving but one is rock solid where they stand and has been for a long time. Bernie is that person, you know exactly where he stands and what he's about.

The whole issue with how Hillary is backed by big banks and Wall Street is also very worrisome. I simply don't think this is what we need today and you throw in the controversy with the DNC only allowing 6 debates and how HRC negotiated for even less, this smells rotten to me.

Personally, I simply don't understand how people can support Hillary when we have a candidate who is truly to the left of her on many issues and is rock solid. I don't get that. I'll be honest, one thing that really worries me is that if Hillary does get the nomination, Dems may lose badly. I don't see her energizing the American public and that shows in her ratings based on likability. It would however energize the GOP base to show up in droves because to them, she's no different than how libs see Palin. (Now don't lambaste me, I'm not saying she is. I've had several cons on twitter say that to me)

I think we face a lot of really huge issues right now as a country and I only see one candidate who can bring us together and that's Bernie. The whole issue of getting money out of politics rings across the aisle with the Tea Party and there are some issues we can come together on as a country. However if Hillary is elected, I fear we'll see stagnation the likes we've never seen before. It's bad enough with the crap the RW pulls with her mow but as POTUS? It would be downright stupid and that simply means we wouldn't accomplish one damn thing as a country.

I suppose after the primaries I'll go back into lurk mode knowing my opinions probably won't be welcomed here. Granted I side with Dems on many issues. For me though, I honestly just have a hard time understanding Hillary supporters and I am bewildered by it all. I just want to shout "she's not Elizabeth Warren!" at the top of my lungs.

I just hope the country goes blue in the end but if Hillary is elected, I think that will be a very tough road to climb.

Cheers all.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. A big, fat K&R!

[jwirr]

2. Thank you. Very good summary of why we support Bernie.

[DanTex]

3. Sounds great, but it's too bad he can't beat the GOP in the general.

[restorefreedom]

4. dan, good to know

we can always count in you as the voice of sanity and reason

[Doctor_J]

6. who are these millions of voters who will vote for Hillary, but not Bernie,

in a contest against trump or Bush?

[DanTex]

7. Independents and centrists. People who don't like socialism.

[Doctor_J]

9. well, liberals are told we have to vote for Mrs wall street because we can't afford to

have JEB! in the white house. Tell the DINO the same thing about Sanders. Problem solved.

[DanTex]

10. I said independents and centrists. Dems I think would vote for either nominee.

[pinebox]

29. Bernie's policies are in align with most of America

Bernie Sanders says Americans back his agenda — and he’s mostly right

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/12/bernie-sanders-says-americans-back-his-agenda-and-hes-mostly-right/

Read it. I can't copy/paste as it's several info graphics.

This however I can.

According To Polls Most Americans Are Socialists Like Bernie Sanders
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/03/polls-americans-socialists-bernie-sanders.html

Most Americans should understand that a ‘label’ is an identifier, or more aptly put a word or short phrase that describes someone or something. Republicans are real big on labels, and they have had a fair measure of success improperly labeling “socialism” as any policy or agenda that does not enrich corporations and the wealthy, spend half the budget on the military, or create greater numbers of poverty level Americans. To be fair, America does have one purely ‘socialistic’ program in the Veterans Administration, but other than that one agency, America is the epitome of anti-socialist.

In its basic form, socialism is simply organized society in which all major industries and financial institutions are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and corporations. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont self-describes himself as a ‘democratic socialist,’ but there is not only nothing ‘socialistic’ about his policies, those he does espouse are supported by the majority of Americans that likely rail at the idea they are socialists. It is why he is having a measure of success creating a grass roots movement and may have even more if he did not self-label as a socialist.

The reason Sanders is unlikely to win the nomination for president is because only 31% of Americans “react positively” to the word socialism. However, among 18 to 29-year olds, about half view socialism favorable and only 47% see capitalism as a good thing. Still, even with the ‘socialist’ label, Senator Sanders’ policy positions enjoy a great deal of support among the population and it should not only frighten Republicans, it should, and is, pull Hillary Rodham Clinton farther to the left; the left that twenty years ago was decidedly Centrist. One thing is clear; even as a self-described socialist, Sanders’ views on ‘key political issues’ are more in line with mainstream Americans’ opinions of, expectations for, and demands of government.

Senator Sanders’ concept of tax reform is the reverse of Republicans, and what they say Americans demand, and believes the system overtly favors the rich at the expense of the government and rest of the population. Sanders believes the rich do not pay nearly enough in income taxes and recently supported returning to the 90% tax rates established during Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower administration. Socialist moniker or no, a February poll revealed that 68 percent of voters said wealthy households pay far too little in federal taxes. Voters also agree with Sanders’ policy, and legislation that cracked-down on offshore tax havens for the rich and corporations. Sanders’ bill required corporations to pay the top corporate tax rate on profits they hide offshore. Interestingly, a stunning 85 percent of business owners favor closing all overseas tax loopholes in their entirety and 68 percent of the public agrees that the government should “close any and all tax loopholes for large corporations that ship jobs offshore.”

Americans also closely align with self-described ‘socialist’ Sanders on campaign finance. Senator Sanders rails against Citizens United and has a called for a constitutional amendment that would effectively prevent corporations from making political donations and buying the government; he also support public funding of elections. Although most Americans think corporations should have a very limited right to make political donations, over half say ban all political donations from individuals and private groups and shift to a government-funded system; only 44 percent of voters oppose such a law.

Sanders believes, like many Americans, that “Instead of cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and nutrition programs, we should be expanding these programs.” Many polls reveal that majorities of voters, including Republican voters, demand that Social Security is expanded and a poll last year showed that even Republicans in red states want Medicaid expanded. Most Americans also support expanding nutrition and housing programs. A poll conducted last year showed that even voters in red states want to expand Medicaid. In a January 2015 poll, it found that over 50 percent of likely voters agree with Sanders and support a single-payer healthcare system.

On regulations, a surprising sixty-four percent of Americans agree with Senator Sanders and strongly support regulating greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, factories and cars to reduce global climate change; they also support a federal law requiring utilities to generate more power from low-carbon sources. Americans are not, as Republicans claim, in favor of deregulating banks or abolishing the Dodd-Frank financial reform law. In fact, a substantial majority of Americans agree with Sanders that big banks “are too powerful to be reformed and must be broken up.” A recent survey revealed that 58 percent of voters agree with ‘socialist’ Sanders and support “breaking up big banks.”

It is almost a no-brainer, but over 63 percent of Americans completely agree with Sanders that it is imperative to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour “over the next few years.” Americans want the minimum at $15 an hour by 2020. What is surprising, and should worry Koch Republicans in Congress and states, is that Senator Sanders support for legislation guaranteeing that workers can form and join a union is favored by 53 percent of Americans. In fact, that 53 percent actually “supports a new law that would make it easier for labor unions to organize workers.”

It is glaringly obvious that for regardless the reason Senator Sanders self-labels himself as a “democratic socialist,” or whatever negative connotations that label socialist has according to constant harping by Republicans, most Americans support Mr. Sanders’ policies. Of course the truth of the matter is there is nothing, nothing whatsoever, in any of Senator Sanders policies that are remotely ‘socialistic,’ and he may enjoy even greater success if he would just drop the label and be what he, and most Americans really are on social and legislative issues; liberal.

Republicans have for too long enjoyed success by labeling progressives, liberals, secularists, and indeed, Democrats as some kind of anti-American monsters. However, the more people like Senator Sanders, and by force of public opinion Hillary Rodham Clinton, expose their popular policy positions as “good for all Americans” and America, the quicker the Republican label machine will be exposed for what it really is; contrary to the popular will of most American people.

[DanTex]

30. Yeah, but the word "socialism" isn't.

The other problem is, Americans want lots of government services, but they also don't want to pay taxes.

[pinebox]

31. "Social democrat"

Dan, I highly suggest you check that word before throwing it out there. There's a huge difference between social democrat and socialist.
Canada, Sweden, Germany, Norway and Denmark are not socialist.

Rest assured though that American's are more concerned with terms like "Benghazi" and "email" than anything else. The red scare is long over.

[pinebox]

32. Sure BUT

If federal taxes are raised on the top 2%, who would complain? Know what else? Let's tax the living shit out of companies like Apple who move their manufacturing overseas and end off sore tax havens while we're at it. If you're an American company and you move operations to a different country, you should be treated like a foreign company, not an American one.

[TBF]

37. Can you red bait some more -

perhaps the person in the 100th row didn't hear you ...

[PatrickforO]

16. Democratic socialism. As in social democrats. A party which has been

successful for the people, and for business, throughout Europe. For generations.

Whoever the Republicans run, I believe Bernie can beat them because his message is right on, and a strong majority of Americans are FOR EVERY SINGLE POSITION that he takes, with the exception of single payer, which has a narrow MAJORITY of support among the American people.

Let me just ask you, Dan - do you agree with Bernie on the issues? Does he speak to what you believe the United States ought to be? If so, then vote for him. If not then talk about where you believe he's wrong on issues.

But not that he can't win because he's a (gasp) socialist (shudder). That knee jerk might work for some older boomers and for the right wing crazies, but it won't for the majority of Americans - not when we get Bernie's message out there.

[DanTex]

18. Yeah, that thing. A lot of people in the US don't like it.

They also don't care about the differences between the many different theories of socialism. Simply saying "I'm a socialist" is enough to lose.

Do I agree with Bernie on the issues? For the most part, yes. Like I said, too bad he can't win.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. I'm a Socialist and an Independent.

[DanTex]

25. Not you then.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. I usually vote for Democrats, probably more times than you.

[artislife]

8. Sulking on another site, I am told. nt

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

13. Bernie has appeal across the spectrum, he's more likely to win the general

than Hillary because unfortunately for her, her unpopularity and distrust factors are about even with her positives. The OP is right, big chunks of Dems (like the 20 to 30-somethings) will stay home for the general if she's the nominee. The rest of us would hold our nose and cast the usual "lesser of 2-evils" vote.

I think Bernie will win the nomination however. He's ahead of where BO was at the same point, but the game has changed, and the "experts"/pundits will continue to be flat-footed on it. Go over to Huffpost pollster http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary and look at the trend lines, all that and a third of the country has still not even heard of Bernie Sanders.

[PatrickforO]

17. No doubt. For Bernie supporters, those are very happy trend lines.

I looked at this a couple months ago and projected that if the trends continued, Bernie would pass Clinton around February 2015.

It looks like I was horribly wrong, though. Seems like he'll pass her sooner than that because the trends have become even steeper.

GO BERNIE!!!

[restorefreedom]

5. thanks for sharing your story

great post

[Paka]

11. K&R

It's a no-brainer to me.

[hifiguy]

12. Bravo!

K, R, and

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. America is terrified of trying something different....

We need to move beyond our global role of pushing capitalism.

The propaganda isn't even working on our own people anymore.

[PatrickforO]

19. You remember what Churchill said about us, don't you?

He said that Americans can be counted upon to do the right thing...

after they've tried EVERYTHING else.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. We seem to be stuck on "Reaganomics".....

Probably because the people who sold it were promoted instead of FIRED.

[PatrickforO]

23. Yeah, that's the corporate line.

Even though it's been proven time after time after time NOT to work.

I think the mistake we all make though, being relatively sane and normal, is to say 'trickle down' is a FAILED policy. Hey, to us, it is VERY MUCH a failed policy. However, to those oligarchs, the capitalist overlords of exploitation, it has been quite successful.

So I guess it's a matter of perspective...like when Obi-Wan justified his lie that Darth Vader had killed Luke's father as being true...from a 'certain point of view.'

So deregulating everything in sight, privatizing everything and gutting the New Deal so we can all experience a purer form of capitalism is good...from a certain point of view. Just not mine.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. Which is why we don't let them run things.

[PatrickforO]

15. I don't have your back story, but I'm for Bernie

for those reasons. He is the candidate who most fits with my beliefs.

[Uncle Joe]

20. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, pinebox.

[tex-wyo-dem]

22. Thanks for the great post, pinebox!

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

This is an extremely critical time for our country and the world, especially with regards to climate change. The next president will likely be the last realistic chance to keep global temps below 2C...very bold and dramatic changes are absolutely required, and Bernie is the obvious choice.

Climate change, as well as every other major problem in this country can be traced back to the corporate oligarchy and its influence on policy. Bernie is the only one who has consistently stressed the importance of the people taking back control of our government.

[NCTraveler]

27. K&R

I don't one hundred percent agree with all of the sentiment, but thanks for sharing. The brief description of what brought you to this decision at this point in time was enjoyable to read.

[pinebox]

33. Thank you

[Enthusiast]

34. Kicked and recommended!

Well done, pinebox!

[Betty Karlson]

35. K&R n/t

[TBF]

36. Same reason I supported Obama in 2008 -

I knew he could beat the repugs and Hillary could not. Whether it's fair or not she gets lumped in with Bill's history (and for me signing NAFTA and repealing portions of Glass Steagall were not good decisions for working class folks). We can move ahead and do better.

[liberal_at_heart]

38. excellent post pinebox.