I'm going to be heretical - Who you support has no bearing on who you are

[Armstead]

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

There I said it.

I just read that "other site" of DU refugees And have also perused some posts on the Bernie side.

And I've come to the conclusion that we're all fucking nuts -- or at least a good percentage of us. And yes, I will fess up to being among the fucking nuts.

We have carved the world into different species, based on what candidate supports. And we've fallen into the trap that plagues many groups and societies -- meaningless hostility and polarization.

Ultimately, which candidate one supports has no bearing on their character or their intelligence, or even their values.

Someone supports Hillary? No Big Deal. Someone Supports Bernie? No Big Deal. Someone Supports O'Malley? No Big Deal.

Now, here's the difficult wrinkle. Behavior does matter.

How one portrays the reasons for not supporting a candidate matters. How one expresses their preference for one candidate matters.

It gets tricky. If one has a real problem with a candidate's positions or personal qualities, and has strong feelings, it's not always easy to express that without seeming insulting.

And too often differences set off a negative feedback loop, where disagreements escalate into personal antagonism.

And -- frankly -- adrenaline can also enter into it. Admit it. Don't you sometimes get a charge out of battling it out with someone?

But we all -- me too -- too often cross the line from healthy heated debate into this tribal behavior. Hunched over our respective campfires. "Oooooo aren't those Hillary supporters AWFUL? Disgusting people." ............"Ooooooooo those Sanders people are soooooo creepy."

No. Hillary supporters are not automatically awful. No, Sanders supporters are not automatically creepy.

And, to be really heretical, not all Republican are automatically awful or creepy. Some of them are good, well meaning people. They just have fucked up beliefs about what's best for the country.

I got no answers or solutions here. I guess we could all learn to count to ten before posting. Or not deliberately push hot buttons to make points.

I'll admit I've had the Pope on in the background. Maybe some of that Love and Peace and Golden Rule stuff has seeped in.

Anyway, i got no answers here. We'll all do what we all do. And that includes bashing each other.

Only suggestion is that maybe we should use our real brains a little more, and turn down the volume on our lizard brains. And realize that life will go on, no matter who is nominated and what happens in November next year.

[msongs]

1. I am for Hillary. I am for Bernie. I support the democrat who get us the most seats in congress. The

pope? call me when he sells the vatican treasures and uses the money for the betterment of humanity

[Armstead]

3. I think you'll have a long wait on that Pope thing

But, they are doing fire sales on closed churches. Not exactly selling off the Vactican's treasures, but who knows?

Anyway, I'm not religious, but I still find his message on social justice inspiring and may make a small efferent in softening people's attitudes.

[BlueWaveDem]

2. Peace and love. I like this message.

The Golden Rule is a most excellent virtue to live by.

[ColesCountyDem]

4. Excellent post!

Having survived the 2008 silly season, I've learned to not conflate candidates with supporters of candidates. I've also learned that one does not have to take the bait someone dangles in front of you, and that it's also perfectly OK to let something pass unanswered, just like a duck lets water roll off of its back.

I like Bernie, and I'll likely vote for him in my state's primary, if his campaign is still alive, but that doesn't mean that I hate Secretary Clinton or her supporters. I will vote for the Democratic nominee, period, end of sentence.

I'll hush up now.

[liberal_at_heart]

5. I'll admit I let myself get more angry than I should when I'm told to give up

the ponies and vote for whoever has the best chance to win the general election and then told to vote for the nominee no matter what or else risk allowing the Republicans to win. I don't know why I let myself get so upset. It's not like they are going to be holding a gun to my head when I'm filling out my ballot. I can and will vote for whomever I damn well please and probably shouldn't let it get to me so much. I do put a lot of people on ignore so as to limit the amount of exposure I have to such hateful comments, but it is impossible to avoid all such comments. And being told who to vote for isn't even the worst of it. The posts here on DU about Bernie and his supporters being racist is bad enough, but that other site is down right horrible. I know not all DUers act this way. Some DUers are actually very respectful. I am going to try my best to not let it get to me as much and maybe I need to use my ignore button some more. Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

[artislife]

20. ^^^this.

when I'm told to give up the ponies and vote for whoever has the best chance to win the general election and then told to vote for the nominee no matter what or else risk allowing the Republicans to win.

But it isn't recognized as antagonistic. That is what cause the blow back, imo.

[carolinayellowdog]

6. the DU microcosm does NOT represent the macrocosm-- 35 million+ Dem primary voters in 2008

I looked it up to figure out what percentage of likely primary voters in 2016 are actively participating here. If there are 3500 active posters, which seems generous, that is .0001 of 35 million. I'd never assume that the behavior of supporters of either candidate here can be used to generalize about ten thousand times as many supporters in the general population. Although I will vote for Sanders and hope he wins, I don't expect him to draw 85% of primary voters. Nor will I hold the behavior of some extraordinarily nasty people here against my friends who vote for Hillary.

But as for generalizing about the qualities of each candidates' supporters HERE AT DU, I think we have plenty of evidence about this tiny microcosm. More every day, alas, and... you know as well as I do what that evidence suggests.

[liberal_at_heart]

7. I agree. Every website on the internet has trolls. They do not represent the majority of people.

[herding cats]

8. This is the best post I've read here a quite a long time.

Thank you. For taking the time to compose and write these words, and for caring enough to try and remind us all that we're all human and as such susceptible to the the mistakes the human condition bestows on us all.

Most of all I want to thank you for reminding us that we can control how we present ourselves to others, and that does make all the difference in how they're going to perceive whatever message we're trying to convey.

[LostOne4Ever]

18. ^Ditto nt

[Fumesucker]

9. "I will try not to be a total asshole with ~this~ post"

That's what I tell myself and I'm even successful sometimes.

[Armstead]

10. That'd be a good idea for an app - The assholishness rater

You run it through and it rates the content before posting.

"This post has an asshole content rating of 45 percent."

[Luminous Animal]

11. Good post.

I spent most of my lunch break today googling "Obama cult" "Obama worship" "Clinton cult" "Clinton worship". And restricted the search to 2008. It is amazing and depressing how much of the political dialog consisted of criticizing supporters and so little on issues. And it is amazing and depressing how little we've changed.

[tblue37]

12. I bet you are from the Judean People's Front! nt

[Armstead]

16. No the Judean Liberation Front

[tblue37]

22. Watch out for the People's Liberation Front of Judea. They are the absolute

worst! We'd be better off letting the enemy enslave us than allowing the People's Liberation Front of Judea to get even the slightest toehold into power!

[slipslidingaway]

13. knr "Now, here's the difficult wrinkle. Behavior does matter..."

but that also applies to past actions of the candidates.

I know that is not the focus of your post, but past actions/positions should matter.

[PowerToThePeople]

14. Neo-cons and Neo-liberals have been trying

Neo-cons and Neo-liberals have been trying to turn us into slaves or kill us for 30+ years. They are an enemy deserving of any all all hatred bestowed towards them.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. I've often wondered about the fall and disappearance of ancient civilizations and how politics

might have played a part.

On the one hand, you had a centralized population who had no real means of transportation and so the "dead zone" within which all natural resources had been exhausted kept getting bigger and bigger. Harder and harder to feed the population, and to provide structures with which to keep them protected from the elements.

On the other hand, the above scarcity of resources led to political polarization that probably caused violence in the streets.

Do you know how they say "Deja Vu" in France? "I think I've been here before."

[Armstead]

23. Not a scarcity of resources so much as distribution of resources

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. It wasn't so much a post about resources as it was about political polarization.

[Armstead]

25. I know....I ws looking for an excuse to kick this thread

but my point is good doncha think?

[Uncle Joe]

17. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Armstead.

[LostOne4Ever]

19. And I've come to the conclusion that we're all fucking nuts

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Oh how very very true!



Incredible post! Thanks for bringing some sanity back to DU![/font]

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

21. Disagree whom one supports and votes for IS a Direct Reflection of who you are and What Your Values

are.

Everything one does, says, or supports is who they are and a reflection of their values.

For example those who are in the KKK are not in the KKK just because they got nothing else better to do with their time it is because they are racist, those who purchase non union made cars and products are anti labor, those who are anti choice are anti woman.

OK, one says that is not me so your screed does not apply, well yes it is you are just lying to your self....'To thine own self be true'

When it come to politics and certain candidates and politicians this applies:

"False face must hide what the false heart doth know"

[cheapdate]

26. Thank you. n/t

[Agnosticsherbet]

27. I won't support a candidate until June 7, 2016.

Which is the date of the California state primary.

I suspect, it already be over.

So my real concern are State and local offices.