REBOOT: Bernie DID need to readjust and improve his message. So do we Bernie supporters.

[Bonobo]

How about I, as a "rabid" Bernie supporter admit that he has tended to deal with economic injustice MORE than speaking directly to the issue of injustice based on out-and-out racism?

(Not that I think he has ignored it, but he is slanted towards economic injustice)

How about I admit that he NEEDS -absolutely NEEDS the black vote if he is going to win the Primary?

How about come right out and say that he needed to have his sight re-adjusted with regards to the horrible issues of injustice faced uniquely by people of color?

How about we just say Bernie listened closely to black voices and adjusted for the better? It's not a bad thing to admit that he recognized the need to change his approach. After all, he is on the national stage, not Vermont.

I admit it all.

I also think he has done a phenomenal job of showing that he DOES care deeply about those issues and we have BLM to thank for that.

So how about we restart? How about we move forward and look at what Bernie is saying. I do not think it is insincere even if it does come on the late side for some people.

Aa a Bernie supporter, the last group of people I want to alienate or separate from are people of color who bear the largest burden of injustice in America. I support Bernie because I think he is the candidate that cares the most about them. I truly believe that.

And I am going to begin showing that I care too by stopping being defensive and admit the above. Then I am going to keep moving forward, hopefully in a more friendly and empathetic way with the people that feel they have been alienated.

[jfern]

1. He has a good racial justice platform now

But it was only after he sat down listened and worked with members of the black lives movement such as DeRay McKesson that he got there.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

[Bonobo]

3. Yes, that is almost exactly what I said in the OP. nt

[eridani]

16. He always had one, but he moved it WAY up on his list, thankfully n/t

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. I agree. Bernie got off to a weak start on racial issues

It's good that he made some corrections.

The activists that disrupted at Netroots deserve credit for making it happen too.

[pnwmom]

4. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is exactly what's needed if Bernie

is to have a chance at uniting the party.

One more thing that Bernie has already been doing well -- but some of his supporters, maybe not:

He recognizes that not all people of faith are right wing Republicans. And in the Democratic party, the groups who are most likely to practice a faith are minorities -- African American and Latinos. Minorities that will be key to holding together the Obama coalition.

Pope Francis's visit gave Bernie a chance to connect his "socialism" with the Christianity that millions of progressives believe in -- and he took full advantage of the opportunity, strongly associating himself with the Pope's economic and environmental views.

No Church or religious faith is without flaws. But it doesn't help the Democratic cause to have some of its supporters constantly denigrating people of faith. And it might be why some have been driven into the arms of the Rethugs. Is that what we want?

[beam me up scottie]

5. Criticizing the pope is now "constantly denigrating people of faith"?

No religious bigot gets a pass from me, I don't care how much the left loves him.

[LWolf]

28. This is a good point.

It's a reality that much of America has a faith. The real thing that doesn't get acknowledged is that a faith, "Christianity," for example, is not a monolith. There are so many denominations, and many different dogmas; almost as many as there are people to read and interpret.

Treating all people of a faith as if they believe and practice the same is simply not getting it, and as a refusal to look at someone who thinks differently than we do and find some common ground is simply destructive.

[Hortensis]

36. United we stand.

[madfloridian]

6. It takes two sides to stop being defensive, it takes 2 sides to start understanding.

I took a month off from DU recently and I will again if needed to keep my mouth shut.

I have never misused my skin color to be deserved to be said to be using "white privilege". I am not and never have been a "white supremacist". Ugly term that calls to mind Nazi Germany.

I think Bernie had just started his campaign, perhaps a little overwhelmed with the massive nature of the crowds, having to adjust everything so quickly. He is hit twice in a row by people screaming at him and grabbing him onstage....when he probably was at that time unaware of what was happening.

Fair is fair, and it is going to take both sides to come together...not just one side. I have done nothing as a Bernie supporter for which to apologize...so I won't.

Words count, they hurt no matter which side uses them.

If I need to leave for another month or so, I will do so rather than say hurtful things like were said to me over and over.

I went through some hard times like both sides did during Florida's years of school integration.

We learned to work together then and did so throughout my many years of teaching.

We can do that here, but it is never just one side that is always right....it takes both sides.

We were told that Bernie's past deeds through his life didn't matter because he was not using the exactly correct words...he probably at that time wasn't sure what they were. Of course his past actions and votes matter, his good intentions through the years matter.

And I want to say I was totally disgusted to find that this primary campaign was being used to paint Bernie Sanders as a racist. What a shameful thing to do.

[Major Hogwash]

8. So, is he supposed to call some of his aides "bro" now, and give fistbumps to them?

Because some of the most racist canine excrement I have read lately has been put up by people who couldn't care less if the United States gets entangled in another never-ending war, this time in Iran.
And yet, the charge about Bernie "not using the exactly correct words" was coming from some of those very same people!!
And most of those so-called journalists are not journalists at all when they start with their bias about race.

It was shameful for anyone to try and assert that Bernie is a racist.
He marched with Martin Luther King, for crying out loud.
Long before some of those people who said all that canine excrement about Bernie were even born!!!

[dsc]

22. and you have the nerve to wonder why

people of color might think you don't give a damn about them. Simply amazing.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. Our 'Iran Strategy' seems to be entirely about 'face'.

The President has invested in ousting Assad for years, beginning back during the 'Arab Spring', when it was possible for some people to think that just maybe the Middle East Strongmen could actually be replaced with Democracy. And, quelle surprise, the reality instead was that the collapse of the strongmen left a power vacuum to be filled by an even more violent set of thugs. Now, when it's fairly obvious that creating another power vacuum will further enable ISIS, he feels he cannot back down, and continues to rail for Assad's ouster.

I hate to say it, but Putin was actually making more sense than Obama in the latest round of talks about Syria. And I think Putin is a megalomaniac with dreams of rebuilding a Russian empire, so I jate to have to admit that.

[pnwmom]

40. Your subject line contains racial stereotypes and is deliberately offensive. n/t

[Bonobo]

9. I think at some point, one of those two sides needs to give something.

Otherwise no forward progress is made.

[madfloridian]

13. If I had been wrong, I would admit it.

I reacted to being called names for being a Bernie supporter. I feel no need to apologize for that.

The tactics of calling a fine man a racist is just so much over the line it is hard to accept.

[TDale313]

11. Both your post and the OP are incredibly important and valid.

I agree with the OP in many ways- said so early on- but I also know that some of the attacks have caused rifts that will be hard to heal. It has gotten incredibly ugly and personal, and that didn't start with the Bernie supporters and can't solely be fixed by them. And if they wanna just tell a large portion of the electorate to fuck off, they don't need us? Yeah, good luck with that.

[questionseverything]

54. mad, yours is one of the best voices we have on issues

i realize it is easier for me because i have been here a relatively short time so i am not emotionally invested in posters but please remember it is only a few people saying the loud,mean stuff

[madfloridian]

58. Though you may be right...

about only a few voices....it has changed my whole view of the Democrats. It is changing my outlook on party things. I went through being ridiculed when hubby and I were Dean supporters. We withstood the shunning from the local party when the campaign was over.

Had always been a Democrat, but it didn't matter back then.

Doesn't seem to matter now either. I was born with white skin through no doing of my own, and that is now how I am judged and how my candidate is judged. Doesn't matter that I always made sure not to misuse any privilege that went with white skin. Doesn't matter that Bernie spent his life working for causes that benefit people in general no matter the color of their skin.

I never expected this primary to be so racist. It is doing damage IMO to all of us.

[questionseverything]

59. this primary is bound to be ugly

bernie challenges the power of the 1%, they have worked since the beginning of time to get to this point and they will concede nothing without a fight

i try and take nothing personal on the net, i assume you read about the hbgary hack? greenwald and bradblog were targeted because they were considered progressive and the company was going to use software that could manage 100 personas by one paid operator ...are we that important here on du...i like to think so...and even if we aren't it makes me feel better when i read horrid stuff

there is a part of the white community that will never view blacks as equals, and a part of the black community that will hate all whites regardless of their works but,that is not you or me so it is out of our control

let us work on what we might change...for you that is writing and researching,please,never stop

[TM99]

7. My take on this is different.

Last edited Tue Sep 29, 2015, 04:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Sanders has a strong history on social justice from black civil rights from sit-ins, to arrests to being a part of Jackson's Rainbow Coalition. He supported LGBT rights long before most Third Way Democrats did and spoke out against both DADT & DOMA. Those are not the actions of a man not well-versed in the politics of social justice.

But, Sanders is from Vermont. It is not a very racially diverse state. He is also an independent. Even if he caucuses with Democrats and supports them, he was not a part of the national Democratic Party machine.

Identity politics are a major part of the Democratic Party, its platform, and its machine. That is not an indictment or a criticism. It is simply an observable statement of fact. Every minority group does expect to have a strong voice in national Dem politics and expects to be courted as part of the base. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you are not part of that, entering it for the first time is going to be a small challenge.

Sanders is a rather humble man. I mean that sincerely. We, his supporters, will tout his record. But he really doesn't and hasn't gone around doing so.

There was nothing wrong with him emphasizing economic justice as a foundation of his campaign given he is fighting an entrenched New Dem machine whose sole purpose is to win and to use Wall Street's money to do so.

Once introduced to the minority politics, he simply began to do what he has always done, which is to be on the right side of history with regards to civil rights. He stated clearly days before even Netroots that social justice AND economic justice are both important. He has continued to emphasize social justice issues as the months have progressed. And he has been consistent in every speech that they BOTH matter.

A very small faction of Clinton supporters and frankly her campaign itself (and yes, Clinton has been running a negative campaign with surrogates & SuperPac's since the fucking beginning!) took this situation and ran with it both here at DU and elsewhere. As a PoC I was not shocked, but I was and still am pissed about it. The split between social and economic justice only comes from the Third Way neoliberalism. Sure you can have social justice but only if Wall Street stays status quo and free trade goes through.

I personally don't think you need to apologize. You, of all people, have consistently posted that social and economic justice are necessary. You have been very respectful to PoC even when in conflict with a few on these boards.

Yes, I want my community and other minority ethnic communities to vote for Sanders. I see day after day in my own community how his message of both types of justice is resonating more and more.

The only way all of us can move forward is if we acknowledge that while Sanders on a national level may have needed to express more about the social justice aspect of things to court one part of the Democratic base, Clinton must express more about the economic justice aspect of things to court the other parts of the Democratic base which are progressives of all colors. Bluntly I don't think she can do this genuinely because it is not the New Dem way. If she does, it will sound like Obama's campaign and hope & change was a great marketing campaign, but it did not translate into progressive governance.

We must have both. Period!

[Bonobo]

10. I agree with everything you said AND I want to move forward. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Very nice post

[LWolf]

30. THIS.

I agree with all of this. I want to move forward WITH the people that need social and economic and racial justice the most.

[DFW]

14. As an undecided, I salute your post

You'll do your man a big favor if you try to not make others Feel The Spurn.

Caveat--I see Hillary getting blasted for announcing sensible positions (Keystone, e.g.) in a less than timely manner, so don't expect a completely free ride. But there's nothing wrong with honing a message that was headed in the right direction in the first place, and that goes for all candidates. If Bernie is in the forefront, then he deserves recognition for it.

*I'm editing this to mention that it's posts like yours that are the main reason I stick around DU these days. The anger and snark that permeate so many posts tend to drag DU down into the morass usually inhabited by people of a far more rightward persuasion. Indeed, I'm not convinced some of the more razor-tongued among them aren't plants by the far right. They are known to do that kind of thing.

[nxylas]

15. I get very uncomfortable with the "his views have been the same for 25 years" meme

I get that it's supposed to paint him as a signpost rather than a weathervane, but repeated too often, it makes him sound intransigent and intellectually incurious.

[Bonobo]

17. I don't feel the same. To me it is a sign of strength and conviction.

25 years would stretch back to when he was about 45.

I don't think the views of a person should change so dramatically.

For example, I am much more troubled that only 10 years ago, Hillary felt that marriage was only something that should be between a man and a woman. Now THAT troubles me but is really the subject for a different OP.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Hillary didn't change her mind about marriage equality until 2013.

[Bonobo]

21. Ooops, much worse. I forgot. nt

[nxylas]

20. But conviction doesn't have to equal stasis

Bernie's evolution on Black Lives Matter is a case in point. There is nothing in his newfound attention to racial injustice that is inconsistent with his previous principles. The BLM protesters had merely identified a blind spot where his existing policies had failed to address an issue of real importance, and needed to expand their focus. That's nowhere near the same thing as "my focus groups say that gays are good now".

[Bonobo]

23. What you indicate is not stasis.

And you can't have it both ways.

If you think he has changed on racial injustice (which I do NOT think he has done. He has merely amplified the message), then you must give him credit for change and thus disproving your assumption about stasis.

[nxylas]

24. I *was* giving him credit for change

But some DUers seem to think that any change or evolution equates to weathervane politics, and that "Bernie never changes his positions" is a winning slogan. Remember when Colbert mocked * for "believing the same thing on Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday"?

[mhatrw]

18. All Bernie supporters should a take a cue from the man they support.

WWBD?

When it comes to BLM, what Bernie did was listen, learn, and refine his message and priorities. That's what a true leader does. Why not follow his lead?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. No thanks.

I'm not trying to model my life off Bernie, he's not my 'messiah'. I'm voting for him because of his policies, not his comportment. He could be an utter ass and have the same policies and I'd still vote for him for the policies. Heck, according to the Hillites, everyone in Congress hates him and considers him a 'jerk' and that's why they won't endorse him. And although that's utter nonsense, given that I consider him right on policies, and other candidates on the wrong side on policies or having displayed a troubling past history that makes me doubt their current claims as being expediency, I'd still vote for him even if he was the big 'jerk' they claim.

[mhatrw]

46. He's a jerk if you are a corporate sellout.

He is a jerk if you betray your constituents to the highest bidders. No wonder most folks in Congress hate him. Considering our Congress, that is a huge compliment.

[deutsey]

57. +1

[Katashi_itto]

25. I do think it's important t drive home the point of the smear campaign the other

side it trying to pull and rather poorly at that.
Responding to the various smear threads they put up.
Otherwise I say stick to the facts and let the other side damage their own already defective brand.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Were there people who knew about Bernie before the race who didn't know that?

Of course he focused on economics more than anything else, for his entire career. And of course he's adjusted his messaging when it became clear he wasn't connecting with all of his audiences. You can't talk past an audience and expect to get your messages across. You have to talk to them with the right 'tone' for the person or people with whom you're trying to communicate, or else communication falls by the wayside.

[LWolf]

31. He seems to be really good at this,

at noticing what the people he's reaching out to care about, and reaching back.

It seems like his way of reaching out, of finding common ground without giving up ground, might be good for a POTUS.

[Uncle Joe]

32. Good OP and there are several good supplemental posts on this thread as well.

Thanks for the thread, Bonobo.

[DanTex]

33. Yes, but his heart is obviously not in it. Only after multiple BLM debacles did he finally

tack on a social justice piece to his platform, but it's very clear that what he cares about are economic issues.

[TM99]

35. So Dan, you now know what is in another man's heart?

Wow, the amazing DanTex, psychic mind reader and diviner of souls.

Don't quit your day job.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=631846

[DanTex]

37. In the case of Bernie, it's pretty clear. No need for personal attacks.

[TM99]

38. Dan you always claim it is a personal attack

when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

No, it isn't clear. And if you read my post and links therein, you would have to admit that you were wrong. You are not a mind reader.

But you won't do that. So I and others will continue to call you out on your bullshit.

[DanTex]

39. Well, your last post contained an obvious personal attack.

I've noticed that Bernie supporters have gotten more personal against HRC supporters here, and I wonder why that is.

I get that you disagree about Bernie, which is fine. To me, and to many other people, you listen to Bernie speak, you notice immediately that economic issues are where his heart is. His stump speech is all about billionaires and wages and all that. Which is great. But there's no use in pretending that his focus is not on economic inequality.

[Live and Learn]

61. And yet you continually make them, especially against Bernie, who surely doesn't deserve it.

Shame on you.

[DanTex]

62. Criticizing a politician is not a "personal attack".

[Bonobo]

41. I disagree.

I believe that he sees economic inequality as the overarching problem and that a solution that ignores economics, such as for example laws against racial profiling, are only a "feel good" solution that makes a pretense of leveling the playing field without having much real world impact.

[bettyellen]

47. "without having much real world impact" for YOU. It's like you can't help but marginalize POC by

excluding them from the "real world". Wow.

[mhatrw]

50. If we outlaw racial profiling and just as many POC are brutalized by the "justice system",

what have we actually achieved?

We need comprehensive criminal justice and police department reform. A great first step is to get the profit motive out of our police departments and jails. When there is an economic incentive to arrest and jail minorities, economic justice and social justice are two sides of the same coin.

[treestar]

43. Also notice how it's good and OK for BS to "evolve"

Gee, others don't get to do that without a lot of crap directed at them.

[mhatrw]

51. evolve >> revolve

[mhatrw]

48. His heart isn't in it? How many progressives do you know who are

not strongly in favor of social justice?

Sanders' voting record shows that he has always been in favor of social justice. His message is what needed to evolve, not his principles.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. so what does that say about the 17 years of advocacy it took to get Hillary to support marriage

equality. Is her heart in it? By the standard you offer 17 years seems to make it clear.....

[Puglover]

63. Speaking of BLM.

They plan on disrupting the Twin Cities Marathon on Sunday and not letting runners finish the course. I wonder how that will work out for them.

http://www.startribune.com/black-lives-matter-protest-plan-stirs-fear-spurs-backlash/330034841/

[Fawke Em]

34. This isn't a reboot.

It's a slight retool to bring up his message about social justice to the level at which he was discussing income inequality and economic justice.

He wasn't a Civil Rights neophyte, after all. He just didn't talk about it as much. Now he is.

[bettyellen]

49. He was an absolute neophyte regarding how many are jailed for not paying fines these days.....

He was completely taken aback to hear it in a video I saw. He had to ask people to repeat it, and questioned whether it was true.
I appreciated his honesty, but it was discussed widely in the news after Ferguson, and he still had no clue. SO, I am glad he is listening and learning, but we can't pretend he already had a great grasp on the issues. Not when he thinks college is going to fix things for kids graduating college barely able to read and write.

[questionseverything]

53. i saw that interview

i think he was shocked to find out it went on in sc too,like in ferguson (especially since the justice department was all over ferguson)

which begs the question...why isn't the justice department stopping this everywhere NOW?

[mythology]

42. Live, grow stronger, fight another day

Hopefully this overly sensible no name calling style of posting on both sides.

[cyberswede]

44. Kick

...seems some more people need to read this.

[magical thyme]

45. Bernie moved social injustice to the front of his speeches, expanded on and made it more prominent.

And he's made the wording more current (e.g. speaks "their names," etc.)

It was there all along, but was buried in the middle, with economic justice at the lead before.

[questionseverything]

52. that is how i see it

after the blm interruption at the social security rally, he just wrote down the things he has been working on for years

i think he was going to introduce his new AA outreach gal at that rally but was interrupted...she did take the stage that night to introduce him and we all know he did not hire her between appearances

[Bonobo]

56. I agree 100%. nt

[jfern]

60. kick

[jfern]

64. kick again

[Agschmid]

65. Kicking.