HRC on the Iraq War Resolution: no regrets.

[Warren Stupidity]

Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

[Scuba]

1. That was a dealbreaker for me.

[Hortensis]

15. It would have been for me too IF we had another strong candidate to send into

the arena against whichever GOP nationalist warmonger they decide on. At this point we do not. Don't even think squishy Uncle Joe; he doesn't fared well one-on-one against the GOP.

[Scuba]

16. Open your eyes.

[Hortensis]

17. If he were to win the primary I'd support him. One thing, his ability to handle the

presidency competently is in question, but I suspect being "squishy" when the GOP pushed would probably not be his problem.

[Fearless]

39. What has shown you that he would be incompetent as a president?

[Hortensis]

42. I didn't say he would be incompetent. His idealistic personality, and perhaps a

resurgent unwillingness to compromise once he was in the oval office, might even lead to some outstanding achievements. However, he is untested, as all candidates for president are, and we cannot know.

Notably, though, his record in Congress for moving his colleagues to see things his way and work with him to achieve goals (as opposed to his signing on to work with them) is quite bad. None have endorsed him for president.

[Fearless]

45. We've had a few idealistic and "radical" presidents

FDR did pretty well for himself most recently.

[Hortensis]

54. True, and I so wish we had an FDR. He was a talented player.

[Fearless]

57. Maybe we will

[AgingAmerican]

59. There is no compromising with the GOP

They do not compromise. You will get screwed by them every time.

[sabrina 1]

67. Deal breaker for me, confirmed by the latest news that she stated it was time to view this horrific

crime that has killed so many people, as a 'business opportunity'. Really? I would starve rather than profit from a massive war crime. So yes, big deal breaker for enough people to cause her to lose the last election.

Fortunately there is one candidate who voted against that horror and I can't imagine ever even suggesting profiting from it, who is the most viable and electable candidate we've seen in a long while.

He's destroying the Repubs already in polls, and half the country still has to learn who he is.

[Ford_Prefect]

2. Many in Congress then and now never acknowledged that there were NO WMDs.

Has she ever said anything about that, or the mission creep that lead to so many civilian deaths?

[ion_theory]

55. I believe she said something along the lines of..

it was the best decision at the time and everyone else thought it too. Basically, the same talking points as everyone else who gave a Yay vote.

[Art_from_Ark]

74. Well, Bernie certainly didn't think it was the best decision

Neither did the late Senator Robert Byrd.

[leveymg]

76. The Old Republic died with Senator Byrd.

What we have become since is a danger to humanity and an enemy of democracy.

[Android3.14]

3. Apparently that sentiment also "evolved"

Could someone wake me when she starts to lead?

[uponit7771]

4. Wingerish Hillary hate, she said the voter for the IWR was a mistake. She, like Bernie, evolved

... on an issue

Wingerish at best

[Logical]

5. Nope! She doubled down on it! Nt

[uponit7771]

6. This is false (link inside)

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

[Motown_Johnny]

48. No, she did double down on it...

and then only years later did she comprehend that she was wrong all along and then change her position.


Just because she flipped four years later does not mean that she had not doubled down prior to that.

Your assertion is false.

[Motown_Johnny]

10. But she was wrong for years. Bernie was right when we needed leaders to be right.

Same on marriage equality. Wrong on the issue when we needed leaders to be right on the issue.

What is the next thing she will be wrong about and not figure it out for years? Can we afford that risk? The answer is clearly "No". Her record speaks for itself.

[uponit7771]

23. She's correct now, the tenure isn't important to me...

[Motown_Johnny]

29. That is completely insane.

You are admitting that she does not have the judgement to make a correct decision when a decision needs to be made.

Yet, you don't care.


Just what are your priorities?

[uponit7771]

34. Everyone evolves including Sanders, I'm not holding it against Sanders or Hillary

[Motown_Johnny]

41. But what will she get wrong next time? How long will she stay wrong?

Now that we have Russian planes bombing targets in Syria, I am thankful that we have someone who was right on Iraq from the start as President.

We can't afford a President who has Hillary's record on this kind of thing. Just think how bad it could get if she was President right now.


There are plenty of bat shit crazy Republicans who now can see that Iraq was a mistake. I suppose you would be ok with them as President too. You should be since they "evolved" on this subject the same way that Hillary has.

She just isn't worth the risk.

[uponit7771]

43. Same questions goes for Sanders no? tia. ... I don't think any of them can throw a stone

[Motown_Johnny]

47. SANDERS GOT IT RIGHT !!! IN REAL TIME!!! NOT 4 YEARS LATER!!!

How The F%$# Can You Possibly Equate Someone Who Was Right All Along With Someone Who Was Wrong For Four F%@$ing Years@!!!


NO! The same question does not go for Sanders. He has proved that his judgement is better than Hillary's.

[uponit7771]

56. good, he gets brownie points for being early on SOME THINGS... not all. But I'll ask again, How long

... will Sanders stay wrong on some issues?

tia

P.S. - yes, hes' on the wrong side of some issues just like Hillary is or was.

NONE of the candidates can throw stones... NOT ONE!!

[Motown_Johnny]

63. Not Early. On time. Hillary was to late

More deceptive language from a Clinton supporter. How shocking!

Nobody is perfect but Hillary is terrible. Four years to figure out that she was wrong should disqualify her for consideration of becoming Commander In Chief.


Besides the whole crazy Valor theft Sniper thing.

[uponit7771]

66. too late for some, a lot are not going to hold it against her as long as the heart has changed and

... I don't dislike her enough to think that it isn't.

She'll do fine, Bernie will do better in other categories but not all

[Motown_Johnny]

68. Sorry your children were killed in that house fire

but the contractor who took the risk and used substandard parts now admits it was a mistake.


So as long as his heart has changed nobody should hold those deaths against him, right?


It is pretty clear that nobody you know was hurt or killed in the Iraq war. Lucky you.

[uponit7771]

70. Strawman, no one said no one would be held responsible... I don't dislike her enough to want

... her to be shot or anything close

[Motown_Johnny]

71. Nobody wants her shot. We just don't want her to make the same mistake again

but this time with more authority.

She has proven to have poor judgement when it comes to the use of military force. Even now she wants a no fly zone in an area where Russian planes are flying.

She can't be trusted as Commander In Chief and should be removed from consideration by the votes of Democratic Party Primary participants.

[uponit7771]

82. That goes for any human including Bernie... Bernie can't throw a stone in the area of poor judgement

... and doesn't pass the purity test that is placed up on Hillary.

Not one of these candidates can throw a stone

[Motown_Johnny]

83. Yes, he got it right. In real time. He can throw stones.

Plus, he can live up to any test that is asked of Hillary, and then some.


Just because your candidate doesn't measure up doesn't mean that mine doesn't.

[uponit7771]

84. Then you don't know ALL of Bernies record when it comes to issues. The people who do don't

... see him passing the purity test placed on Hillary

[magical thyme]

32. it isn't important that hundreds of thousands, if not millions had to die, more

hundreds of thousands, if not millions, have their lives destroyed, and Iraq as a country and our economy left in smoking ruins, before she finally figured out that it was a mistake?

Sorry, but I disagree. She has repeatedly shown poor judgement and an unwillingness to take real responsibility for her resulting mistakes in her tenure as First Lady, as Senator, as SOS, and now even as a candidate.

There was a time when I would have voted for her in a heartbeat. And then after W, between the Iraq war and the need for no more dynasties, I said no to Hillary.

Now, after all her repeated examples of poor judgement, bad decisions, and refusing to recognize her bad decisions until she has no choice but to recognize them, well
I can't help but believe she would be an utter disaster as a President. I've voted a straight-line democrat ticket my entire voting life, starting with McGovern. For the first time in my life, I don't know what I'll do if we don't get a better nominee.

[uponit7771]

35. Error of the head and not the heart, she said it was a mistake and knows what she'd do different

... again, people evolve including Sanders.

What's shocking is Sanders supporter don't think Sanders has evolved on anything in the resent months and that's false on its face

[magical thyme]

44. repeated poor judgement means repeated poor judgement.

It's a pattern. I don't care if it's an "error of the heart" or an "error of the head." I don't even know what that is supposed to mean in this context.

Evolution is a gradual change, not an overnight shift. She didn't see her vote as a mistake for good decade, if not longer. Long after hundreds of thousands of lives were lost, millions destroyed, and the country clearly a failed state courtesy of the US.

Until recently, instead of the catastrophe that it is, she saw it as a business opportunity for her 1% neocon friends.

p.s. This is a thread about Clinton, not Sanders.

p.p.s. "not long ago" is recent. To resent is to begrudge, to be bitter, to take offense at, etc. Can't help but wonder....

[uponit7771]

46. Was a pattern and not one of the candidates are immune from that crticism, NOT ONE

[Motown_Johnny]

51. Bernie has not evolved on anything that equates to the Iraq War Resolution.

Nothing even close.

Your false equivalency is transparent.

If Hillary could be defended for this then you would be able to do it honestly. You can't.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. I'm trying to parse your personal attack.

Help me out. Quoting Clinton on an issue is "hating" her? Noting her position on her Iraq War Resolution is "wingerish"? Would that be left or right "wingerish"? Or does the distinction even matter to you?

[uponit7771]

24. No, taking the time to make up false impressions of her current positions is hateful at best

... its taking time to paint a false picture of what someone believes.

You have to dislike them a lot to do that, very misleading

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Her current position is that she made the right decision given the facts

she had. She regrets that it turned out so badly and that she had the 'wrong facts', even though clowns like me knew full well that 'the facts' were horseshit long before her vote for Bush's war.

[Motown_Johnny]

49. You keep equating Hillary's Iraq war vote with something Bernie evolved on.

Just what exactly are you talking about?

What is it that Bernie evolved on that even begins to compare with this?

[uponit7771]

50. No I don't, put words in your own mouth. Bernie has evolved or he'd better have especially on the...

... issue of immigration and his votes with the GOP or we're toast and I'd be the first to label him an asshole.

Look at his views on immigration...

He better had evolved

[Motown_Johnny]

53. That has not killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Besides that.. here are some of his views on immigration:


http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Immigration.htm


^snip^

Secure borders without building a fence

Bernie says that we are a "nation of immigrants. That is, in fact, the strength of America." He believes the US must create an immigration system that invites greater innovation, diversity, and economic opportunity for both American-born citizens and the people who want to make this land their home. Bernie supports immigration reform that will address the legal status of the 11 million undocumented people in our country, protect American jobs by way of visa reform, secure the border, and protect undocumented workers from labor exploitation.


Offer path to citizenship; waive deportation for DREAMers

On immigration: Offer path to citizenship. Waive some deportations now.
Sanders generally agrees with President Obama that most of the undocumented immigrants in the country now should be given a path to citizenship. He voted for the senate immigration bill in 2013, which would have increased border security and issued a provisional immigrant status to millions of undocumented residents once some significant security metrics had been met. In addition, Sanders has supported President Obama's use of executive orders to waive deportation for some groups of immigrants, including those who were brought to the United States as children.

English-Only, based in xenophobia, hurts legal immigrants

As in other countries with economic problems, xenophobia is intensifying. The issue for some can be summarized by the writing I recently saw on a t-shirt: "If you can't speak English, get the f--k out of the US."
The "English Only" bill mandates that all official communication by the federal government be in English. This means that members of Congress from a heavily Hispanic or Polish district, for instance, would be prohibited from communicating with their constituents in Spanish or Polish. Election, tax, and other information needed by millions of citizens would be available only in English. President Clinton indicates that he will veto this legislation, and the bill will not go anywhere--not even to the Senate. But it passes in the House by a vote of 259 to 169. 8 Republicans, 160 Democrats, and I vote against the bill.
Source: Outsider in the House, by Bernie Sanders, p.136 , Jun 17, 1997



Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities".

CONGRESSIONAL SUMMARY: To create a reserve fund to ensure that Federal assistance does not go to sanctuary cities that ignore the immigration laws of the United States and create safe havens for illegal aliens and potential terrorists. This vote is a motion to table the amendment; voting YES would kill the amendment.

[Clayton Clay]

7. You didn't mention that she regretted it later

You imply that the world ended in 2004.
Misleading.

PolitiFact: "in 2002, Clinton supported the Iraq resolution, but by 2006 she said she regretted it."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/may/12/jeb-bush-hillary-clinton-and-authorizing-war-iraq/

You sought to create the impression that she still doesn't regret it.

It's 2015.

[Motown_Johnny]

11. Yes, it took her four years to figure it out.

We can't afford a President who not only gets things wrong when we need them to get it right, but who also takes years to figure out what Bernie had right all along.

[Clayton Clay]

13. Your thread didn't make it clear that she ever regretted it

Why not?

[Motown_Johnny]

14. Not my thread

and I implied that she did figure it out after four years.

That should be enough.


P.S. Welcome to DU!


Sorry for the confusion, I think you mean "post" not "thread" but my point still stands. She did figure it out but it took 4 years. That is not acceptable for someone who wants to be President.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Yes indeed when it became more expedient

to express the position of regret, she took that position. Do you have the full quote for her "regret", because I think it was this:

Clinton continues, "I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could with the information I had. And I wasn't alone in getting it wrong. But I still got it wrong. Plain and simple."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

And in that she still claims she did the right thing but she had the wrong information. Sorry. That is still bullshit.

[TheKentuckian]

62. She was still standing behind her vote when she last ran and doing so helped Obama knock her out

She only changed when it dinged her dream and she finally grasped the downside politically.

She has not "evolved" on a damn thing as evidenced by "we came, we saw, he died", pushing South American coups, and rushing on to the TV to get to Obama's right on arming "moderate" theocratic terrorist.

Evolved my ass, she is just pitching bullshit to win.

[colsohlibgal]

8. She Was Scared And/Or Gullible

The rationale for this first strike war kept changing but it was all ridiculous. He had nothing to do with 9/11, he hated Bin Laden. He was a bad guy but there are worse and we have propped up bad guys before like Pinochet in Chile and our last puppet Shah in Iran which let to a revolution, hostages, and the "October Surprise".

Hillary either bought the Bush cabal's nonsense or she was afraid to vote no. Bernie wasn't suckured in and had the personal fortitude to vote no.

The lemmings who voted yes have blood on their hands and also have helped run up a tab in the trillions.

[MindfulOne]

30. "Vote for Clinton, She's Either Scared and/or Gullible!"

[hifiguy]

69. Whatta choice.

I know we as a party can do better.

[Motown_Johnny]

9. .....and the polls said I would benefit from it.

Now I benefit from regretting that policy, so I regret it.


Marriage equality? Ditto.


Leadership!!!

[moobu2]

12. 11 years ago...nobody cares but a bunch of Hillary haters.

[restorefreedom]

19. naaaaaaah, no biggie

it was a war that killed and maimed thousands of us soldiers, killed hundreds of thousands of iraqis, destabilized an entire region, led to the rise of isis, embroiled us in a torture quagmire, and is having ongoing consequences today.

nothing to see, right?

give me a break, she was wrong. she made a calculated political decision and didn't even admit it was wrong until years later.

NOT the person we need as cic or president.

no way.

edit: and heeeere we go again..criticizing policy makes us haters? I don't think so

[moobu2]

26. Bush Jr. invaded Iraq not Hillary Clinton.

[restorefreedom]

28. she gave him authorization

those who approved it are also responsible

[Fawke Em]

27. I bet these people care

[Victor_c3]

60. As a disabled vet produced by the war I care

I served in Iraq as an Infantry Platoon Leader from February 2004 through March 2005. I have blood all over my hands from the war. In our time in Iraq my platoon killed 46 people that I know of and wounded about 100 people. I lost 5 Soldiers of the 46 that were under my command.

Since getting out of the Army on 31 OCT 2007, my life has been slowly going down hill due to my PTSD issues. It was very manageable at first, but it just kept getting worse and worse. I lost numerous terrific career jobs (I worked for Amazon.com for a while then I was a chemist for the federal government for a while) and the things in my head kept getting worse and worse. on 25 June 2014 I got into an argument with my wife. In an attempt to sting me emotionally, she called me a ""killer" and threw my military service in my face as a derogatory thing. I ran down to my basement workshop, grabbed a razor blade, ran back upstairs to my wife and slashed my left wrist four times in her face, switched the blade to my other hand and proceeded to slash my right wrist once before i dropped the blade from my left hand as numerous tendons were severed seconds before and my mangled hand wasn't able to hold the blade to do more cutting.

I had no idea that when you slash one of your wrist that blood would spray out with the amount of pressure that it did. My wife was covered with my blood from her head all the way down to the ground. I did a couple of laps around the inside of the house bleeding everywhere while my wife ran and called 911. My two young children (aged 3 and 5 at the time) heard the commotion and came out of their bedrooms and saw me bleeding out. I told them to get back into their rooms (which they promptly did). After seeing them, I ran outside and started yelling at my wife about the war and the killing I was a part of. I didn't join the Army to become a killer - even thought that is exactly what I became.

In the last year I've only gotten worse. I spent roughly 5 of the last 12 months in a psychiatric hospital. I'm on 6 psych meds and I go to the VA hospital about 4-5 days a week to attend various treatment and therapy groups. I started receiving SSDI and VA disability and I keep losing more and more from my life. My wife wants nothing to do with me. She and the rest of her family is convinced that I'm going to hurt her and the kids one day.

I see things, hear things, and I'm generally stuck with some sort of intrusive thought from the war stuck in my head. I have blood and regrets all over me from the war and to hear Hillary Clinton say that she has nothing to be sorry about is tremendously upsetting to me. It must be nice to be one of the politicians that was responsible for causing so much carnage and death to not feel any remorse for it. While she gets to go to sleep in her nice bed and have sweet dreams and a great life, I'm stuck reliving in every glorious detail the death and destruction that I was a part of thanks to people like her.

[ibegurpard]

61. I am so sorry.

I am ashamed that you had to fight in an unjust and immoral war in my name. I am sorry that you had to go through all of this and I hope that you find healing.

[demmiblue]

87. O.M.G.

Just... and .

[ancianita]

18. In spite of "context," Character is everything.Judgment is everything. She failed. She should regret

[frylock]

22. No remorse No repent

We don't care what it meant
Another day Another death
Another sorrow Another breath

[Fawke Em]

25. And this is far more of a reason not to vote for her than

whatever Kevin McCarthy is blabbering on about.

[olddots]

31. she wants to be the " Decider "

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. This is enough of a reason not to vote for her

But there are plenty of other reasons on top

[slipslidingaway]

37. This was a BIG mistake that millions of people across the region cannot forget as their lives ...

have been totally torn apart ... many literally.

It was the 'politically correct' vote to cast, those who went against the tide were considers outsiders.

It is too damn easy for politicians to say 'I made a mistake' and expect people to just say "OK" and hope you get it right the next time!

Their decision to allow a war of aggression affected millions of people and has helped lead to instability across the area.

This was a major error of judgement based on facts presented 'at the time' and you get one vote, this was not something one grew up with believing for twenty years and then evolved to change course.

There are decisions that need to be made on the current evidence, not something one grows up with. We need a leader to get it right the first time.

Sometimes there are no second chances, the Iraq war vote was one of them. This was not something that was drilled into her head by a catholic school or parents for the first 18 years of her life, for example abortion is always wrong, and later on her position changed through knowledge.

Those who say 'she evolved' on this issue are making an excuse IMHO.

[Fearless]

38. The only problem Saddam was was to his own people

And the UN should have dealt with that.

Hillary's point of view is reprehensible at best.

[Art_from_Ark]

75. And the UN was dealing with that

UN weapons inspectors were in Iraq when Bu$h told them to get out because had to get his war started NOW!
The UN also had sanctions against Iraq that had been in place since 1990.
And of course, there were the coalition's no-fly zones and occasional bombing missions against Iraq between the two Gulf wars.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. The hallmark of callousness and opportunism.

I'm too cynical to be surprised that anyone would want her as president but I am not too cynical to be a bit disgusted that they would.

[Fred Sanders]

52. Even amateur propaganda headline writers could do better than this.

[AgingAmerican]

58. At the time the weapons inspectors were saying 95% of them were gone

And the other 5% were in the form of parts. She knew this. She chose to believe Bush/Cheney instead.

[bullwinkle428]

64. This is THE reason why she is not President TODAY.

People can try to deny this until they're blue in the face, but it really is the cold, hard truth.

[hrmjustin]

65. You would think the op would inform people this is from 2004.

[Warren Stupidity]

77. Clinton 2104: "I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could

with the information I had." - but now that it is safe to be against the war she admits she got it wrong.

[reformist2]

72. I want people who were opposed to the war starting in 2002. Such people exist.

I don't need people who have "evolved" on that decision. Or even if I forgive them for that, I certainly don't want people who say Bush & Co. were wrong, and then turn around and randomly bomb other countries in the Middle East...

[John Poet]

73. "No regrets"?!

That says all I need to know about Hillary.

NO SALE!

[cantbeserious]

78. Once A War Hawk - Always A War Hawk - Does America Really Need More War

eom

[Art_from_Ark]

79. No, America does not need more war

America needs to tend to the needs of its citizens and quit pissing money away on wars.

[tularetom]

80. I would have some respect for her if she just said "George Bush lied"

Of course she would never utter those words. Bill wouldn't allow it. Might cause some tension inside the family.

[slipslidingaway]

86. Then one might also need to include, and 'I believed the lies, maybe I could have done more due ...

diligence, but I did not ...'

Oops, made a mistake. If you say you are sorry that erases all the lives that were lost and disrupted

[BlueStateLib]

81. The Nation Nov 2002: Half a Victory at the UN

Iraq’s decision to accept the United Nations Security Council resolution, passed unanimously on November 8, sets in motion a tightly scripted plan for UN arms inspectors to return to Iraq. Baghdad’s ambassador, Muhammad al-Douri, delivered his government’s acceptance letter to Secretary General Kofi Annan on November 13, telling reporters, “We are prepared to receive the inspectors within the designated timetable.”

Despite an angry parliamentary recommendation to reject the resolution, Iraq’s acquiescence was widely anticipated. It reflects the relentless pressure brought to bear on the country, from the Arab League and from such Council members as Syria, France and Russia, as well as Washington’s escalating threats of war for “regime change” virtually regardless of Iraq’s compliance.

In general, antiwar forces in the United States and around the world can claim the recent UN resolution as a partial victory. The resolution does not endorse the use of force; it redefines the Iraq crisis, at least in the international arena, as one of disarmament, not regime change; and it will at least delay a US attack. It provides a powerful tool to fight for US accountability to multilateralism and the UN. But it still reflects the heavy-handed domination of the UN and the rest of the world by the United States and ultimately sets the terms for war

Hillary Clinton Floor Speech A.U.M.F. Use of Force Vote
October 10, 2002

While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq.

Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.
http://www.thenation.com/article/half-victory-un/
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011884.php
http://aumf.awardspace.com/

[beam me up scottie]

85. So you don't regret her vote either?