I can understand why the polls ask how Hillary would do against the republican candidates, but why

[still_one]

do they not do the same thing with Bernie? In other words match up how Bernie would do against the republican candidates. He is number 2 in the polls. Biden is NOT number two, and until he announces, he shouldn't even be included in these polls. Unlike Hillary and Bernie, they have spoken out on what their policies would be. It cannot be assumed that Biden would follow the policies of the Obama administration. In fact, his opposition to the raid against bin Laden represents a difference, and examining his record is no measure where he stands now. For example, he was against the first gulf war, but was for the second gulf war, and in fact voted for the IWR. So unless he announces, and introduces himself as his own person, including him in polls is just nonsense.

These media sponsored polls might just as well poll the current candidates against an unnamed candidate. It makes about as much sense

[leftofcool]

1. Relevancy

Biden is indeed #2 in the polls.

[still_one]

2. As what? Unless he runs it is meaningless at this stage

[Autumn]

3. Biden is relevant at keeping Bernie out of the equation. That must be done at all cost

even if it causes the democratic party to fail. That's my opinion. YMMV

[still_one]

6. I don't completely agree. It has always been in the back of Biden's mind. However, in this case I think his paid

consultants are behind a lot of this, because they know they will be out of a job in 2016, and they need to find a new gig

I do agree with you to the degree that MSM has been minimizing Bernie's presence, but that most likely will change after the first debate

[AgingAmerican]

19. Biden isn't running

nt

[Uncle Joe]

20. Fiorina and Bush are 3 and 4 in the Republican Primary polls and yet they're included.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

[mak3cats]

4. And then they don't have to report that...

...Bernie polls as well or better than Hillary against the GOP candidates, at least in the polls in which he's been included.

[still_one]

7. It is rarely done. I think I have seen him included once. Hillary is included all the time, and as

I mentioned, they have included Biden's position against the republicans far more times than Bernie.

To your initial comment that they do it, but don't have to report it, then they are intentially distorting the poll

[mak3cats]

10. My comment was a little unclear...

...they report the results when he's included, but more often than not Bernie's left out. For instance, in the latest NBC News / Wall Street Journal poll, both HRC and Biden were polled against Trump, Carson, Bush and Fiorina. Bernie was only polled against Trump.

The results?

Clinton 49, Trump 39 (Clinton +10)
Clinton 44, Fiorina 45 (Fiorina +1)
Clinton 45, Bush 44 (Clinton +1)
Clinton 45, Carson 46 (Carson +1)

Biden 56, Trump 35 (Biden +21)
Biden 47, Fiorina 41 (Biden +6)
Biden 48, Bush 40 (Biden +8)
Biden 49, Carson 41 (Biden +8)

Sanders 52, Trump 36 (Sanders +16)

Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

[still_one]

11. Appreciate the clarification

[mak3cats]

12. And here's another recent poll (Quinnipiac) where they were all included...

Clinton 45, Trump 43 (Clinton +2)
Clinton 42, Bush 44 (Bush +2)
Clinton 42, Carson 49 (Carson +7)
Clinton 43, Fiorina 44 (Fiorina +1)

Biden 51, Trump 40 (Biden +11)
Biden 46, Bush 41 (Biden +5)
Biden 45, Carson 45 (Tie)
Biden 46, Fiorina 43 (Biden +3)

Sanders 47, Trump 42 (Sanders +5)
Sanders 44, Bush 44 (Tie)
Sanders 39, Carson 49 (Carson +10)
Sanders 43, Fiorina 44 (Fiorina +1)

Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Wait a minute! The main argument against Bernie these days seems to be his "electability" (He can't win! He can't win! The sky is falling! He can't win!). These polls results show who's more electable than who, at least at this point. (And don't forget that Bernie's name recognition is much lower than the other two - as his name recognition goes up, the poll numbers have been as well.)

[jeff47]

5. A few polls do include head-to-head with Sanders and the Republicans

He started doing about as well or better than Clinton.

And then a lot fewer polls kept asking those questions.

[still_one]

8. very few, and not lately, at least from what I am aware of

[Todays_Illusion]

9. It is simple, the propaganda is trying to control the debate. Why allow that?

The opposition is all the media/MSM. All the so called news is owned by the same people who support Republicans.

[still_one]

16. It appearances it sure appears that way to me

[brooklynite]

13. Do you want an honest answer, or is the purpose of this thread to vent about pollsters?

Pollsters have a limited window to ask questions before they lose the attention of the respondent, and every extra candidate add a multipler vs. the 3-4 likely Republicans, so they prioritize. And the conventional wisdom, even among progressive candidates that I know, is that Clinton is likely to be the nominee (Sanders is ahead in -1- State and competitive in -1- other). So pollsters (including D-leaning pollsters like PPP) are currently focusing on Clinton for head-to-head until conditions change.

[still_one]

15. Both. That they include Biden is also puzzling to me, since I believe by including Biden it is a

subtle way to push poll by involving someone who may not even run

I appreciate you explanation, and I can understand why Hillary is involved, but lately including how an undeclared Biden competes over a declared Bernie against republicans, feels to me that they want to influence the results of the poll. In the case of Hillary, they want to portray a loss of support for her, and in the case of Bernie they want to ignore him.

While I agree with you regarding the conventional wisdom, pollsters are also a business, and I suspect that rather than being concerned about "every extra candidate adding a multiplier, verse the 3-4 likely republicans, I think it is to generate business. If it appears it is a close race with Biden included, it will generate more exposure, and thus more sponsorship.

I also wonder if there are media outlets that request a particular pollster, if they have input who to include in the poll.

[Todays_Illusion]

22. We better vent against the pollsters, they function primarily to shape opinion, not report it.

That is my opinion, and once you see one, first determine what the purpose is, and look at the questions, and especially question the combined polls where they are lumping unlike questions.

[brooklynite]

25. I work with market researchers, so you'll forgive me if I disagree with you.

Polling CAN be used to shape opinion; show me any evidence that the broad collection of polls is intended to.

[Todays_Illusion]

26. Fancy that and my background is marketing research and analysis and if what you say is true

you understand about the use of language to elicit a desired response.

[brooklynite]

27. Like I said, it -CAN- be used that way. But prove to me that it is...

...preferably without a "we all know" comment.

[Todays_Illusion]

28. I only say you have moved the goal/topic again and I am dropping out.

[AgingAmerican]

14. Biden is in the polls because those hiring said pollsters are afraid of Bernie

The polling world is trying to operate around him. The MSN has pretty much collapsed in reaction to Sanders. They now run all these nonsensical bogus 'stories' so they don't have to acknowledge him. MSNBC completely changed their format to pretending he doesn't exist.

It is so pathetic to watch it all unfold. Pathetic how the powers that be overreact to him.

[still_one]

17. It does seem they are doing a sort of push polling to me

[AgingAmerican]

18. That's a good way to look at it

[Todays_Illusion]

24. That is perfect, they do want to push us to Hillary or Joe or anyone but Bernie Sanders.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Manipulation of the American Peoples' perception by omission in regards to Bernie's ability to win

the general election against the Republican contender.

Thanks for the thread, still_one.

[moobu2]

23. Becasue Bernie wont be the nominee.