This is a preview of what an HRC presidency would be - Paid opinion makers, badgering us to support

[reformist2]

whatever "third way" BS that HRC happened to be peddling next. It will be a never-ending ad campaign, ordering us into submission.

I can already hear the sock puppets now:

"We've got to support this new free trade bill, Hillary is supporting it, and to oppose her would be bad for party unity!"

"We've got to support HRC's bombing of Syria and Iraq - it's not being done for big oil, it's being done for humanitarian reasons!"

"Hillary's proposal to have college students work 20 hours a week while in school in order to qualify for government loans is genius!!"

"We've got to support HRC's banking deregulation campaign - higher stock prices lift all boats, even those of the poor!!!"

[riversedge]

1. Please make Correction in your OP--Her proposal says 10hrs/week

...The Big Idea: Debt-Free Tuition

The Clinton plan would have the federal government send large grants to states, which would then ensure students can pay tuition without taking out loans. There are strings attached: States would be required to increase their allocations to higher education, and schools would face new constraints on spending. Families would have to contribute what they can afford, according to a financial analysis, and students would be required to work 10 hours per week.

“Everyone is going to have to step up,” Mrs. Clinton said in Exeter, N.H., on Tuesday. “We can’t expect the federal government just to pay the bill for free. That’s not how America works.”

In addition, the lowest-income students would be newly allowed to use federal Pell grants to cover costs such as room and board. Other students could also have those expenses covered if they complete community service and take a public-service job.

Mrs. Clinton’s plan also adopts an Obama proposal for two years of free community college. Together, these ideas would cost about $200 billion over 10 years. The campaign also anticipates another $25 billion for historically black colleges and universities and other schools with modest endowments....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/08/10/5-things-about-hillary-clintons-debt-free-college-plan/

[NorthCarolina]

4. Is Hillary's New College Compact truly debt free though?

The Sanders camp released a statement on the Clinton plan, commending her on releasing a plan of her own but also pointing to the differences. Here are the key portions of the statement:

In that regard, Secretary Clinton’s “New College Compact” is something of a disappointment. Instead of placing college “within reach” of every qualified American, it should be available to all people, as a public good—not contingent on individual family sacrifice, or student work requirements.

The Sanders plan, which was released last May, would make all public colleges and universities tuition-free. It would eliminate the federal “profit” from student debt and would allow students to refinance at significantly more favorable rates. (Under current conditions the undergraduate student loan rate would drop from 4.29 percent to 2.37 percent.)

There would be no payment requirements for middle-class families, and no 10-hour workweek to add on to a student’s class load. Students would be able to use federal, state and institutional need-based aid to cover room and board, books and living expenses – all major contributors to student debt. It would triple the size of the federal work-study program, and offer significant relief to current student debt holders.

Other nations have seen the wisdom of tuition-free public higher education, including Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Iceland and Mexico. We understood the same thing in this country for much of the 20th century in states like California and New York.

The Clinton plan is a step in the right direction. But it’s not debt free. The Sanders plan offers real solutions to the high costs of college tuition and student debt, and progress towards the building of a robust democracy.

Link

I'm glad that both camps are addressing this issue heavily as I believe that debt-free access to a college education is pretty much a no-brainer for a civilized society that wants it's people to prosper.

I am not trying to be antagonistic, I am just questioning the accuracy of your mention of "Debt-Free".

[Thinkingabout]

27. Sanders college tuition plan would provide free college for the 1%, do they need welfare?

[tk2kewl]

30. Free education at public colleges and universities is about way more than economics.

It's a statement about what is important to us as a society. A statement I wholeheartedly agree with regardless of whose kids take advantage of the opportunity.

[NorthCarolina]

31. I don't look at educating our young people to compete on a global scale as "welfare".

I look at it as simply common sense. So from my perspective I really don't see anything relevant about your comment. Sorry.

[Thinkingabout]

33. I am talking about the young people of the 1%, don't you think they can afford to educate their

off springs?

[NorthCarolina]

37. Sure they can, and I don't believe Bernie is talking about making Yale, or Harvard tuition free.

I don't see many children of the elite attending State universities and Community Colleges. Even Chelsea Clinton attended Stanford, so she would have had to pay for that privilege even if Bernie's plan had been fully enacted...so what's your point?

[Thinkingabout]

39. Do you think Chelsea Clinton needed to have her college education paid? Yes there are colleges

which prepares one for Yale and Harvard, and many of those attends and has attended Yale and Harvard first attended state universities and Community colleges.

[NorthCarolina]

41. I suspect your irritations

stem more from concern over children of poor families gaining access to a proper education and a better future on the public tab than children of the 1% possibly benefiting from such legislation. That's just my take based on what I am reading from you.

[Thinkingabout]

45. No, where have I said anything about poor families gaining access to proper education?

I do not think the 1% needs freebies to send their kids to college, welfare to the rich, nope, this is what I am against.

[NorthCarolina]

47. And you are SO irate about the possibility of the 1%

gaining free college education that you would deny the children of the 99% their chance to do it. Yep, that makes sense...not. Your justification belie your rhetoric. Sorry, that's just the way i see it.

[Thinkingabout]

48. GEEZE, why can't this be given to those who need it rather than the ones who can well afford to send

their children? I am beginning to think Bernie is a welfare for all.

[NorthCarolina]

49. Sorry, but I'm not going to humor

your penchant for nonsense anymore. Have a good day.

[AgingAmerican]

52. Hillthink

nt

[AgingAmerican]

51. So screw the other 99%?

This is right wing thinking. This is the GOPs rationale for getting rid of welfare.

[Thinkingabout]

70. There needs to be some limits, just as finanical aid is based on some limits, welfare for the 1% is

not needed. I have an idea the 10% does not need the welfare either. Have tuition with some energy from those who attend college given back to the communities which need the skills of our college grads. Something was given to those attending college and they can in turn give back to the nation. We give, they give, it is a win win.

[AgingAmerican]

74. Free tuition at public colleges

means free for everybody

[NorthCarolina]

79. I know the type...

they choke on the word "free" because, you know, some undesirables might gain advantage to it...or some BS along those lines.

Apparently if you turn the tables on it though and say I'm only against it because the 1% doesn't need it, that somehow implies you are progressive. Forget about the needs of the many, the better good, and all of that. Kind of saddens me that folks in America think like that.

There is a better way, and that way gives everyone a place at the table. The same table.

[AgingAmerican]

50. Doubtful the 1% will be sending their kids to community college

nt

[NorthCarolina]

56. Yes, I already pointed that out in a post above

but, you know, can't let that 1% get free tuition for their kids because they don't need it. Best just to keep the status quo and let everyone make it or break it on their own accord dontcha know. Would love to give the 99% a chance, but since the 1% would also benefit just not gonna do it. That's the "logic" I've been getting read to me anyway.

[Scootaloo]

55. And also the remaining 99%

[jkbRN]

60. The benefit for low income families vastly outweighs

the 1% who to probably would NOT attend a public college--they tend to attend private. Even if they did, think about someone who is going to medical school, in which a lot of universities require you NOT to work because of the dedication needed to pass the required courses.

[Bread and Circus]

62. Education is not welfare. It's an investment. And even though they don't "pay their fair share"

the wealthy actually do pay most of the taxes. That's a fact. Why shouldn't they benefit too when it comes to having their children educated?

This is one issue that should not be "means tested".

[yurbud]

65. welfare is not "welfare." It's an investment in not becoming Calcutta or Rio

[Bread and Circus]

69. That is true and I am good example of it. I grew up on AFDC / food stamps / section 8 housing

Was homeless.

Now I have a graduate degree.

[yurbud]

85. my family was on food stamps now my dad and I both have masters

[restorefreedom]

71. it isn't welfare

and higher taxes on the uber wealthy would be paying for a good chunk of it, so the kids of the wealthy have just as much right to it as anyone


besides, most of them will still want the ivy leagues

[LondonReign2]

90. If they have paid in their fair share of taxes they should be entitled to the same benefit

[zeemike]

8. Yep everyone is going to have to step up.

Except the profit makers...and in fact we step up so they don't have too.
These third way plans all sound alike...take from the government and give to the rich and get tax payers to cough up some more to cover it...always protecting the wealth of the well off.

[sulphurdunn]

12. We can’t expect the federal government just to pay the bill for free. That’s not how America works.

That depends on who you are. This is another overly complex and unworkable Clintonesque solution that sounds reasonable and will die quietly once it has served its political purpose.

[reformist2]

59. There's something Orwellian in her declaration that free tuition is "not how America works"...

She's not saying that we can't afford to give people free educations. She's saying it would actually be WRONG to do so! Up is down, down is up.

It's like she's saying, don't you think we'll ever be like Europe, where you can expect a free education. In America, you are peons, and we're going to make sure you work for everything!

[Maedhros]

75. America works the way the American People say it works.

Last edited Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Or, at least, that's how it should be. But we have an endless number of political rank-and-file Quislings in this country that just want to go along to get along, even if it means acquiescing to Right Wing ideology. Winning is everything, right? Even when we still move backward...

[reformist2]

83. Well said. I deeply resent being told "how America works."

[merrily]

84. Free public schools for all through Grade 12 are one of the great things about America, but add a

Last edited Sun Oct 4, 2015, 12:37 AM - Edit history (1)

year or two and it's the heyday of the USSR all over again? What an arbitrary line to draw!

In any event, who died and left Hillary in charge of deciding how America works and how it should or shouldn't work?

What a fatuous statement!

[Chan790]

17. The work requirement just has to go.

Completely. It's an undue burden that will adversely-affect student performance...it's stealth hedge against upward mobility and protection for Hillary's beloved "haves" which places additional life-burden on those seeking higher education who were not born with the silver spoon I, admittedly, was.

When I say Hillary isn't a real Democrat, it's because she proposes crap like this. This is an anti-progressive and anti-Democratic-ideals solution to a real problem that benefits the same people all of Hillary's proposals and ideas do...the wealthy interests she actually works for and not the women, children and middle & working-classes she gives lip-service to. (Hillary is actually a terrible candidate for women and children and minorities...and particularly women and children who are non-white and/or living in poverty. I don't know how so many are resistant to seeing that.)

I wager if I looked hard enough I'd find this is yet another idea from Hillary she cribbed from a Heritage Foundation proposal.

[Generic Other]

42. And yet I worked 10 hours a week in a college writing lab

tutoring my fellow students. Best job training I could ever have had. It did not effect my grades in the least. Maybe improved them, led to TA position in grad school, great job recommendations, etc. I think many students would jump at paid internships and other forms of aid to get through school debt free with something to put on a resume.

I think we need to make the investment in our young people. I always appreciated the American taxpayer helping me out with Pell grants and even loans. I will always try to pay that debt forward.

[AgingAmerican]

53. The point is

She is propping up the GOP notion poor people are poor because they are lazy.

[Generic Other]

67. I felt very empowered knowing I was paying some of my own way

I ended up with a much smaller debt load too. I am not defending work/study as a way to shame others, however. I agree free tuition would have been an enormous weight lifted, but students also need money to live, and I depended on my job for that as well. Not sure taxpayers are going to be willing or able to fully meet all student expenses. Still, we can dream.

For me, doing meaningful work meant I never felt like I was freeloading off the taxpayer's dime as the GOP tries to make all people on public assistance or even social security feel. We need to stop that attitude now.

[yurbud]

61. Jesus! I thought that part of OP was satire. Most of my college students work full time

and go to school part or full time because financial aid sucks so much.

[yurbud]

63. in the 80's, my grants and loans covered everything including room and board otherwise, my choice

of schools would have been limited commuting distance from my family home.

[yurbud]

66. $200 billion over ten years is less than chump change in DC.

[questionseverything]

78. from your link

contribute what they can afford,
//////////////////////

this phrase when coming from the clintons terrifys me because what the clintons seem to think the middle class can afford and what i think we can afford are way different things

taxes were much higher on the middle class during the clinton years and i do not want to go back to that

and the threshold for help was much easier to access before the god awful welfare reform that the clintons pushed

[djean111]

2. Exactly what I believe would happen.

I cannot support a candidate who wants the TPP, war, truckles to Wall Street, or touts their support for women and children while saying no, cluster bombs are okay. I cannot.

What is sickening is that I would see all of those things praised and/or justified because it is Hillary who wants them.

I was, truly, thinking about this already. Triggered by a little news blurb about how many more drones will be in the skies next year, and how the FAA is trying to figure out how to protect aircraft. No, FAA rules and regulations won't stop some assholes who want the thrill of taking down a passenger jet. And then - we would hear from the drone apologists just like we hear from the gun apologists - "it was only one plane and only 400 passengers! A VERY tiny percentage of all planes and passengers! FREEDOM!!!!". The rest of us will be asked to be okay with drones (and drones with weapons) flying all over the place, because a handful of people want them.

[DrBulldog]

11. Don't forget her son-in-law.

He's a filthy-rich Wall Street hedge fund manager.

[GoneFishin]

3. Yep. The psyops won't stop if she were to get the nomination. They'll stay cranked up to hound

us to forget about the unethical primary debate schedule manipulation, and the bullshit claims that Bernie is a racist, and the attacks on Bernie by Hillary's surrogates, etc..

ON EDIT: I see this was not about the GE.

[Skidmore]

5. Your post makes

no sense and the added note didn't help. I still don't understand what you said.

[leveymg]

6. It means that the Members of the HRC room will all be getting paid for posting

Pusherman

[tblue37]

18. I don't alert unless a post is bigoted against marginalized groups or obviously

Freeperesque. But I am surprised that no one else has alerted on this, because you just called DU members paid trolls-a TOS violation.

I also favor free discussion, so I lean toward not hiding when on a jury, unless a post clearly violates the TOS.

I won't alert on this post, but if called to serve on a jury for it, I would vote to hide it as a clear TOS violation.

Oh, and BTW, I am a Bernie Sanders supporter. But posts like yours are what gives anti-Bernie people ammunition for smearing all of us.

[leveymg]

46. It was a joke. Cheez-itz

Some people . . .

[99Forever]

7. Hillary Clinton is NOT trustworthy.

I firmly believe she will say or do anything to get into an office she would be incapable of doing and be incompetent in carrying out the duties of. She would drag us into more endless wars and make sure the banksters, the MIC and her cronies are well fed at the corporate government trough at our expense.

No thanks.

[pandr32]

23. Sounds like all that money, time, and effort

...by the Republicans spent hammering away at HC as though she deserved it has been well spent on you. You have come to the exact conclusion they intended.
You are at the DU site. What are you going to do when BS does not secure the nomination? Are you going to bail on us democrats?
You should consider why the Republicans might be so fearful of an HC presidency. It certainly isn't because "she would drag us into more endless wars and make sure the banksters, the MIC and her cronies are well fed at the corporate government trough at our expense." Heck, with the disastrous ones they have hand picked to do just that who are falling away with little hope of getting elected they would be cheering her on instead.

[99Forever]

32. It has NOTHING to do with what fucking "Republicans" say.

It has EVERYTHING to do with what Hillary HAS done and who she hangs with and takes MILLION$ from.


Bub bye.

[Fred Sanders]

28. When you have no logical argument, go with the "I do not trust her" catch all.

"I do not trust Sanders on gun control and commitment to non-economic racial equality"

Which I do because I think Sanders can evolve.....but see how that works?

It means nothing, adds nothing.

[99Forever]

34. You have no counter argument...

... period.

I don't trust because she is a PROVEN liar.

Two words, Fred:

SNIPER FIRE

[Scootaloo]

57. Sanders hasn't been selling us on how eager he is to compromise with Republcians on everything

Clinton's centerpiece is her promise of making "warm purple sauce" with the Republicans. Not out of, which I might support, but with.

[DrBulldog]

9. Thanks to Bernie I am now dreaming of and hoping for . . .

. . . the coming disappearance of all power-hungry Clintons from the national political discourse.

If that day finally comes next year with Bernie's nomination, I will be celebrating the end of fake bought-and-paid-for Democrats acting like Republicans, and the return of real and honest Democratic policies.

[pandr32]

24. You should take a little time to read up on HC

...and not from the headlines. She has always been more to the left of her husband and has the support of Dems in Congress to get to work on the issues that are important to her and will benefit women, families, and workers. Check out, for one, what her foundation has done for people around the world. You might also want to read up on her accomplishments as FLOTUS, Senator, and SOS.

[Maedhros]

77. Being to the Left of Bill is no accomplishment, given that he is the President who gave us

the Defense of Marriage Act, Welfare Reform, NAFTA, and the destruction of Glass-Steagal.

[JoePhilly]

10. Dogs and Cats, living together ... MASS HYSTERIA!!!!

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Good point.

[Darb]

13. What would it be like with Jeb president?

Spend a little time imagining that.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Why? nt

[starroute]

16. Well in that case ...

[tblue37]

19. I don't mean to be blasphemous, but have you ever seen Cthulu and the

Flying Spaghetti Monster at the same time?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Hmmmm?

[starroute]

22. Cthulhu is the Flying Spaghetti Monster's evil mirror universe twin

If they were ever in the same place at the same time, all of reality would implode.

[beam me up scottie]

20. LMAO!

*click* *save*

[A Simple Game]

21. If you are going to vote for evil do you pick someone that is evil because of

incompetence or through inaction, or someone that is truly good at it? We do want a President that is good at their job, don't we?

[TransitJohn]

44. LOL

GTFOOH with that FUD.

[840high]

64. I don't like wasting time. No thanks.

[Zorra]

25. DU will become intolerable for traditional Democrats, and most will stop posting here. nt

[leftofcool]

35. Maybe you can find somewhere else to go.

Or, you could stay and support the Democratic nominee against the GOP.

[Bread and Circus]

86. Why does she need support if she's so damn inevitable?

Everyday we are reminded her of how she is the odds on favorite and all that. Seems to me as if she has got this.... I mean with all her super duper delegates it's in the bag. We should just coronate... er swear her in right now and skip the formalities.

[reformist2]

89. Her inevitability depends upon a relentless ad campaign telling us she's inevitable. It's brainwashi

It's brainwashing, plain and simple.

But in America, we like to call it advertizing. (It doesn't sound as mind-control-ly that way.)

[SusanCalvin]

26. "have college students work 20 hours a week "

That's coming from the same place that the back-breaking tuition and student loans are coming from - keep 'em so shackled down that they don't have time to make any political trouble.

[Thinkingabout]

29. No one is paying me for asking support for Hillary, yes she has campaign workers who she pays,

Sanders has campaign workers who he pays also. Bernie was for bombing Yugoslavia, guess that makes him a war hawk also. Maybe everyone does not know about the humanitarian reasons in Syria which has spread across Europe presently.

One of the bigger reasons for the financial crisis was the Commodities Future Moderation Act of 2000, Bernie voted for this act, perhaps not a well known fact. It provided a way for to create the financial crisis.

[ibegurpard]

38. you are really doubling down on that lie?

About the Commodities Futures Modernization Act?
I guess when caught in a lie the strategy is to lie louder?

[beam me up scottie]

58. Wanting to intervene in a genocide is not "bombing Yugoslavia" and doesn't make one a war hawk.

And stop pushing the debunked meme Could it be that Senator Sanders is just another "bankster"?. Not even the creator of that foolish op is defending it.

Stop gaslighting DU for Hillary.

[ibegurpard]

36. in other words

A repeat of the Clinton I and Obama presidencies.

[BlueWaveDem]

40. Combined total of 40 million jobs.

[ibegurpard]

43. and

Promotion of education privatization. Working with Republicans to push corporate free trade agreements. Turning public dollars over to insurance companies instead of actual healthcare providers and calling it "reform". Now let's get to Bill: throwing people on welfare to the wolves. Signing legislation to allow media monopolization. Pushing more corporate free trade agreements. Deregulation of the financial industry.

All of which has fucked us, and continues to fuck us, six ways from Sunday.
Oh the jobs figures you tout? Income for the middle and lower classes has stayed flat or decreased. Which means we have more people working IN POVERTY.

[Bread and Circus]

76. If you think the American worker is better off in the past 24 years... 16 of them w/ a Dem Prez

then you are nuts.

[cheapdate]

54. For a preview of a GOP presidency

along with control of the House and Senate -- which they have and would undoubtedly keep and/or expand in that scenario -- see Tennessee (re: recent legislation -- "Guns in Bars", "Don't Say Gay", etc,), Oklahoma. Also see: Bush, George W.

[workinclasszero]

72. This is a preview of a Sanders presidency

Bernie and his purist backers screaming and raging at Congress, SCOTUS, etc.

Total gridlock for 4 years, enjoy.

[beam me up scottie]

73. This is a good long look at 206 bills sponsored and co/sponsored by Bernie and passed into law:

https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B"bill-status"%3A"law"%7D

Please explain your gridlock prediction and why you think Republicans won't obstruct Hillary the same way they did Obama.

Tia!

[AgingAmerican]

88. That's what we have now

Total gridlock

[riversedge]

80. it is 10 hours wk=-not 20 as your OP say....

...The Big Idea: Debt-Free Tuition

The Clinton plan would have the federal government send large grants to states, which would then ensure students can pay tuition without taking out loans. There are strings attached: States would be required to increase their allocations to higher education, and schools would face new constraints on spending. Families would have to contribute what they can afford, according to a financial analysis, and students would be required to work 10 hours per week.

“Everyone is going to have to step up,” Mrs. Clinton said in Exeter, N.H., on Tuesday. “We can’t expect the federal government just to pay the bill for free. That’s not how America works.”

In addition, the lowest-income students would be newly allowed to use federal Pell grants to cover costs such as room and board. Other students could also have those expenses covered if they complete community service and take a public-service job.

Mrs. Clinton’s plan also adopts an Obama proposal for two years of free community college. Together, these ideas would cost about $200 billion over 10 years. The campaign also anticipates another $25 billion for historically black colleges and universities and other schools with modest endowments....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/08/10/5-things-about-hillary-clintons-debt-free-college-plan/its

[NanceGreggs]

81. She will also ...

... send all dissenters to re-education camps, make Swedish the official language, and decree that all citizens wear their underwear on the outside.

[azmom]

82. We can't let that happen.

We need to volunteer and donate when we can, so we can get everyone informed on Bernie.
The last quarter donations were outstanding. We are doing great. Let's keep working.

[AgingAmerican]

87. I call it McGovernment™

nt