Bernie's Debate Dilemma

[demwing]

I've read he's not rehearsing, and this is his first ever Presidential debate! Clinton, on the other hand, has seen these debates many times - through her husband, and through her own first hand experience. She will be highlighted at the center of the stage, and has doubtless spent untold resources on opposition research.

This could be a very difficult challenge for Bernie.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. It's who he is. He's not 'performing' for voters, not trying to convince them that he's something

he's not. I think his authenticity will work in his favour.

[demwing]

2. Let's not underestimate Hillary, she's by far the more experienced debater.

It's hard to deny she has the edge.

[FlatBaroque]

7. It is impossible to underestimate Hillary

the age of voters consuing pablum and platitudes is over. She can practice her consultant approved arm gestures and regal poses, it won't mean shit. She already knows she's unelectable, right now she's just building her superpac nest egg.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. " She already knows she's unelectable."

" She already knows she's unelectable."

Yet she leads in the polls, who voters think will ultimately win the presidency, and predictions markets.

[We Want Bernie]

55. Tomorrow is her last chance to hold on to her lead and she'll fail

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. She has a much chance of falling as I have of wresting the Mr. Olympia title from Phil Heath.

[Bread and Circus]

56. she leads in the Democratic Primary polls.

The GE is much more of a mixed big.

Quit trying to obfuscate the two.

I know obfuscation is a tried and true Clinton Campaign tactic but try to refrain for the sake of reason.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. Your outrage seems selective

Your associate said she is unelectable:

"...She already knows she's unelectable.."

-flat baroque

Your outrage seems selective. I don't see you holding out your associate for opprobrium and censure for making predictions based on nothing more than his or her opinion.

Oh, and again, when you look at the polls , who people think will win, and the predictions markets in their entirety Hillary Clinton has a much better chance of being #45 than any of her Democratic and Republican opponents:


http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2016president

[MineralMan]

33. Uh-huh. Good luck with that concept.

[Sheepshank]

43. what the heck does this mean?

right now she's just building her superpac nest egg.

How much do you know about campaign financing? Her personal nest egg is pretty well feathered already. You do realize what the Clintons are worth? In addition, PAC money isn't hers anyway. She cannot dictate how it is spent and it doesn't find it's way into her personal accounts even when the elections are over and there is left over money.

So, with that in mind, how about you explain what you meant by that one line?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Maybe it means they teach you win arguments at Yale Law by using...

Maybe it means they teach you win arguments at Yale Law by using " consultant approved arm gestures." ?

[jeff47]

63. It's very easy to launder PAC money.

You can give it to another PAC, for example. Especially a flavor of PAC that has very limited reporting requirements. Who then hire you as a consultant. Or to speak somewhere. In either case, you're paid an exorbitant fee. And now it's regular income.

Alternatively, the PAC coffers can be used to buy favors from other candidates which result in an economic gain. It's not like lobbyists exist for entertainment value.

While Clinton would not be able to directly write herself a check, running the money through some middlemen doesn't cost all that much.

[Sheepshank]

74. So do you think that is what Clinton does?

She circumnavigates the PACs and campaign financial rules, because she doesn't already have enough money and this risk is worth it to her?

Good lord, talk about reaching.

[jeff47]

79. I was responding to the "you can't pay yourself from the PAC" argument

not the specific people involved.

I have no idea what Clinton plans to do with the PAC money after she loses the nomination or the GE. It's not like she's talking about that contingency.

[Sheepshank]

88. ahhh ok, so Im just need to get that clarification from the person I originally replied to

...curious what they actually meant.

Good thing you responded because it will give them a good "out" for making unsubstantiated remarks. As for use of PAC money after the loss, I'm pretty sure Bernie needs it more than Hillary

[daleanime]

59. That I have to disagree with....

1-if what she's doing was ineffective politicians would never have done so.

2-if she was 'just after the money', she wouldn't be burning thorough it as quickly as she is.

Among other reasons.

[workinclasszero]

66. Oh my...

She already knows she's unelectable

Yet shes beating Bernie like a drum in the latest polls LOL

[stillwaiting]

9. She'll also have the full force of the media brainwashing apparatus AND the Party behind her.

WE have to be the counterbalance to all of that.

The media will go overtime on how Bernie is "not presidential", "not ready for prime time", etc. What that means to me of course is that he is a WELCOMED departure from the Presidents we've had my entire life. The Presidents that are carefully stage managed with speeches written to mollify the masses.

So, he's not movie star material nor a stand-up comic with an outrageously funny wit. No problem. I want a President that's going to FIGHT for average American interests for once in my life even if that means going against what multinational corporations want. And, with Bernie I believe I would get that.

[demwing]

14. With everything stacked against Bernie

he's certainly the underdog of the debate

[treestar]

44. The media will favor Bernie to promote the horse race

that much is predictable.

[demwing]

77. Fair and balanced, that's our media!

Well, they'll have their work cut out for them. Hillary is like steel, tempered in the fire of past debates.

[bigtree]

5. that's an understandable sentiment

...but having lived through countless numbers of these debates, I will say that there may well be a blind spot in front of this reasoning of Sanders. We'll see, of course, but whatever impression Sanders wants to leave with viewers just might not be one which registers with viewers; or, just as consequential, with observers who judge the contest.

I hope he makes a good impression.

[Hortensis]

22. I agree. He's been saying these same things over and over for decades.

Having an unwavering ideology gives him that depth of conviction that is his strength. He's not a simple-minded man, by any means, but he stripped the nuance out of his dialogue long ago in order to keep hitting the basic ideas.

And I agree with Bigtree. He has to come across right, especially to the media who are going to spin this for the nation. Biden could come across as genial and very likable while defending carpet bombing a village, but Bernie just doesn't have that talent. Neither does HRC, for that matter.

BTW, anyone seen the debate commercial CNN is running? It shows a picture of HRC looking herself and one of Bernie seeming mid-tirade. They apparently feel the Dem candidates are deplorably heavy on substance and are clearly hoping, lacking Biden's liveliness, that Bernie'll provide their "show" at least some drama.

[Sheepshank]

41. preparing for a debate is only in part performance, learning to wink and smile for the camera.

Preparing for the debate means doing ones home work on world events, developing their personal policy, showing the people who would likley vote for them that they have the knowledge and the desire to be more knowledgable to lead from a frame of reference that provides a sense of surety to their voters.....or we end up with a Putin type of leadership.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. My thoughts on Tomorrow's Democratic Debate ...

1) I think it a mistake NOT to prepare (rehearse) for the debates, as managing appearance/presentation is very important.

2) I don't think opposition research will play much part in the debates ... it's not like Bernie's positions are not, already, known.

3) I anticipate that Martin O'Malley will come out the big winner, as he has the most to gain. As I've said ... Martin O'Malley has the policy chops of HRC and Bernie, without the baggage. This is not to say he does not have baggage of his own; but, at this point, little of it will come out.

4) DU will be nearly intolerable for about a week, afterwards.

[sufrommich]

12. I agree with you about O'Malley. If he does well at the debates

he'll be Hillary's real challenge.

[AgingAmerican]

78. He will never break 5%

nt

[bigtree]

18. one caution on O'Malley

...he hasn't had many debate challenges within the party. It remains to be seen how he distinguishes himself from the other Democrats who have already positioned their candidacies with similar goals and concerns.

I have seen a bit of stage fright from him on occasion (go figure for a man who's been at this for so long) and he has a tendency to garble words when his mouth fights to keep up with his thought process. This is a magnified appearance where every syllable has the potential to make an impression.

That said, O'Malley is reportedly assiduous in his prep, disciplined in his delivery, and it's paid him dividends in the past.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. LOL ...

He distinguishes himself as the candidate with similar goals and concerns, with a record of getting things done ... AND, without the baggage of HRC and Bernie ... IOWs, the pragmatic choice.

That said, O'Malley is reportedly assiduous in his prep, disciplined in his delivery, and it's paid him dividends in the past.

I think his biggest challenge will be NOT trying to press things.

[bigtree]

35. of course, I agree with your conclusion

...I'm just trying to be objective about the appearance.

I guess I am a tough judge of these events. I've been on the other side of consensus opinion more than once, thinking my candidate did better than the verdict by the press and others; thinking my candidate wasn't so hot, and finding the public impressed and approving.

I obviously think his record and experience makes him a better choice, but I also think the other candidates have their own attributes which could play well in this forum. I'm not taking anything for granted here. I'm going into watching this thing extremely nervous and hyper-judgmental. I'll be relieved when it's over and the other candidates just shake their heads at my guy's awesomeness and start writing their withdrawal speeches.

[1StrongBlackMan]

47. I, too, am a tough judge on these things ...

rarely has anyone wowed me during a debate ... even President Obama's "comeback" debate.

I agree that HRC and Bernie bring a lot to the Party; both, in terms of the presence and platforms ... us Democrats are blessed to have them among our choices.

I have made my prediction as to the debate's effect ... we'll see how close I come!

[Hortensis]

73. Steve Kornacki pointed out that O'Malley hasn't been getting traction

because Bernie has "stolen his thunder," which is certainly true. He speculated that O'Malley MAY go after Bernie in a strategy to displace him as the current main challenger to the frontrunner. Something to watch for.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. I don't know if I agree ...

I think he hasn't gained traction because he is nowhere anywhere near a media after-thought ... In a show between HRC and Bernie, Martin O'Malley is the boring story line, can't attack his looks and there are no (fake) scandals to talk about.

Think about the Bernie/HRC story lines ... very little of it has anything to do with the issues.

Why? ... Because there is very little difference between HRC and Bernie (or O'Malley) on the issues (except for among partisans, and then only when blowing stuff up to justify their supporting their candidate).

[Boomer]

91. Bernie has nothing to do wtih O'Malley's problem.

O'Malley is just not interesting, he has a terrible on-screen presence. He looks good on paper, but that's not enough.

[Hortensis]

94. You guys are both forgetting that without Bernie, the press would

have had to break another candidate or candidates out of the "crowd" of 3 men to talk about. After all, HRC running against herself would make an incredibly boring 24/7.

That doesn't mean O'Malley or any of the others are going to pursue this strategy of course.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. Oh come on.

No matter who wins, you'll think DU will be nearly intolerable for a week afterwards

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. That's probably true. But I will lessen the effect ...

by limiting my wonderings.

[treestar]

49. I agree with those, mostly 3

My prediction is that O'Malley will get attention from it and become the new shiny toy. The MSM will go along with that to make it more of a horse race.

[Scootaloo]

51. I agree on all but #2

He has like 21% name recognition. Can't really say his positions are well-known with that being the case.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. His positions are well known by those that would need/use opposition research. n/t

[BernieFan57]

54. Martin has most to gain, least known candidate, very camera friendly.

I think he plays very well on camera, has a charm and charisma that comes natural to him.

Of course that's a different matter from having the right stuff, the honesty and integrity, the passion and the courage, that we need these days.

I don't know him that well but he may have the most to gain.

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. I would argue that O'Malley does have the right stuff ...

along with charm and charisma needed to get elected.

Of course that's a different matter from having the right stuff, the honesty and integrity, the passion and the courage, that we need these days.

Unfortunately, the masses vote more on charm and charisma, than on honesty, integrity, passion or courage.

[zappaman]

67. I agree with all of your points.

Especially 3 & 4!

[JustAnotherGen]

82. Agree with it all

Will be at realprogressives Tuesday night and at least a week to avoid the nonsense and bickering.

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. His only dilemma is how the Corporate Owned MSM Talking Head treats him

We all know the DNC wants Hillary to win. We all know the Corporate Owned MSM Talking Heads will do the bidding of the DNC.

The minute the CORPORATE OWNED Talking Head calls Bernie a "Socialist" instead of what he identifies as, a "DEMOCRATIC Socialist", we'll know how it's going to go. That's when he'll have to be assertive because he'll know they're there to help the DNC'S Chosen candidate, Hillary.

Bernie's been in many, many debates over the last 25 years. He'll be GREAT - given half a chance.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. I suspect ...

His only dilemma is how the Corporate Owned MSM Talking Head treats him

That will be the excuse, Wednesday morning.

HRC has as much, if not, more to fear from the moderator.

[Snotcicles]

37. After watching how the corporate media had assumed the role of King/Queen maker,

by trying to destroy Trump in that first republican debate. I wouldn't be surprised if they slant against Bernie.
What will discourage me though is if the people I have respect for go along with such an attempt and try to spin it as fairness.

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Personally, I think if the Corporate Owned Talking Heads

treat him disrespectfully, while treating Hillary with kid gloves, it will only solidify his support/supporters and send them across the Internet universe to set the record straight. Twitter, Facebook and Reddit will be on fire. They best treat him with the respect he deserves or they'll likely regret it.

Bernie is going to be great. He has complete command of the issues and has for the last 40 years. We don't have to worry about him flip-flopping on issues.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[peacebird]

89. ^^^this!^^^ plus Bernie will come across as honest & authentic

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I am confident all our stellar candidates will acquit themselves admirably.

eom

[KingCharlemagne]

16. I like your message. Please keep it up!- nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. If given an opportunity to say something nice...

If given an opportunity to say something nice or not saying something nice I will say something nice. It's doesn't cost me anything.

[KingCharlemagne]

24. The undeniable truth is that none of the declared Puke candidates are fit to

even lick the boots of any of our Democratic candidates.

[Trajan]

8. Unlike most people around here

Bernie owns these issues, and had no problem FORCEFULLY defending his positions on the issues ...

This seems to be an attempt to belittle him ... He is 74 fucking years old, and has been around the block many times - why the fuck would anybody think he can't debate? ... Ridiculous ...

[magical thyme]

10. He's not rehearsing in the traditional way, but he is preparing.

He's not memorizing one-line zingers or practicing with somebody pretending to be Hillary.

He will be armed with facts.

It may be his first presidential debate, but it's certainly not his first debate and it's not his first time on tv or in front of an audience or being questioned.

I'm sure he'll rise to the challenge.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. He's got a Truth Phaser

And it ain't set to "stun"

He'll dominate the event.

[demwing]

23. he'll need it. Hillary is a formidable debater. /nt

[We Want Bernie]

60. She's not.

Trust me on this one.

[Snotcicles]

45. One shouldn't need rehearsal if they just answers the question candidly, especially

when you have the confidence of your convictions. Rehearsals are for actors who are trying to portray someone they are not.

[hootinholler]

15. I doubt it

Bernie will be Bernie. That he hasn't been practicing with mock debates does not mean he has not prepared.

He will answer with the truth and as he does and people will think he's beating Hillary like a drum.

[restorefreedom]

19. when you are an authentic person

and know what you believe, there is nothing to rehearse.

[TM99]

20. Preparing and rehearsing are two vastly different things.

Confident debaters with experience prepare. They are armed with the facts, with rebuttals, and with counterpoints to rebuttals.

Clinton is there to put on a show. Hell the DNC has already set up the stage for her and stacked the audience. She is rehearsing. She is practicing one-liners against her opponents and sound bites she hopes will resonate with the MSM.

One big reason for the Sanders surge is that we, the people, are fucking sick of the stage. We are sick to death of the games, the acting, the sound bites, etc.

We want authenticity. We want someone who is consistent and congruent. We want someone armed with facts and concrete proposals.

That is Sanders. That ain't Clinton.

He will be just fine.

[demwing]

39. I hope Bernie does both

hillary is an experienced, formidable debater.

[Fumesucker]

21. Lowering expectations, excellent tactic

I'm glad someone thought of this.

[demwing]

25. Me? im just worried for Bernie.

Hillary is a formidable debater.

[Fumesucker]

27. I recced your thread..

[onecaliberal]

30. Bernie doesn't need to remember his positions because they've been the same for 4 decades.

Unlike some candidates who've had 8 positions on one issue.

[demwing]

32. Hillary is free to respond as she sees fit

She's not tied to a life time of consistency. Bernie has his work cut out for him

[onecaliberal]

95. Of course she isn't, she can change her mind each way the wind blows, as we have seen.

Hillary better be ready to explain why she is still protecting wall street and why she is still collecting money from them and what they want in return for their donations.

[BernieFan57]

31. How do you practice honesty? He's been practicing his entire career.

I think he will be fine. It's almost icky to picture him practicing.

[demwing]

38. It's a challenge for sure.

if Bernie just manages to stay on message, it will be the next best thing to a win.

[BernieFan57]

40. My biggest worry is the tricks that CNN will pull that favor Clinton.

Putting her in the center, for example.

I won't be surprised if her lighting is warmer and brighter and Sanders get's a more blue color tone.

And then the question selection and time provided.

We know that the playing field won't be even before the game even begins.

[procon]

36. Foolish not to take advantage of every opportunity to improve his chance at success.

I can't say that his decision is so much of a dilemma as it is reckless and ill-considered. With a few notable exceptions, very person who has ever run for the presidency has been supremely confident in their knowledge and abilities to speak extemporaneously, but that doesn't mean they can't find ways to improve their messaging. While an off the cuff stump speech works great in front of an adoring, uncritical audience, the broader national debate audience will be much more critical and may already have very different impressions of him.

Given the numbers, most debate viewers won't know much at all about Sanders, so this is his introduction to thousands of potential voters and he shouldn't take them for granted. It's also his opportunity to address the undecided voters, such as myself, and those voters who might by persuaded to jump into his camp from other candidates (or parties), so he has to make a good impression. There's also the press corps with their corporate driven agendas who are always looking for conflicts, magnifying mistakes, and manufacturing "concerns".

I hope he's great, but in the back of my mind I'll wonder how much better he might have been if he had bothered to take his first national debate seriously.

[MineralMan]

42. There are many ways to prepare for something like this.

Some people work with a team. Others rehearse on their own, internally. I suspect that Bernie Sanders is an internal rehearsal person. I'm one of those, too, and it has served me well over the years. Rather than assemble a group of people, I spend time trying to anticipate what I will be asked to say and rehearse that internally. Not in exact words, but in concept, and with time limits in mind.

Then, when I'm standing at the podium, I'm almost never surprised and can speak spontaneously and clearly. I can shift my response, as needed, to be the closest possible match to the situation and the audience.

I imagine that Bernie Sanders is someone who does something similar, based on what I've seen of his personal appearances. That technique avoids the problem of not having a ready response when things change up a bit. Too many politicians who use the team approach to such preparations have their brain full of stock responses to expected questions. When they're presented with a unique query, they can't switch gears quickly enough and have to try to divert back to their planned responses.

Both approaches are useful, but the internal rehearsal technique is more flexible. I can no longer count the number of times I've had to stand behind a podium and speak. Once I developed an internal rehearsal preparation process, I completely lost the fear of public speaking and became a better speaker.

Bernie will do just fine tomorrow, but so will the other candidates. Each will use the rehearsal techniques they've found to be the most useful. I expect to hear cogent comments in this debate from all parties.

[demwing]

85. All Bernie has are the facts. Hillary has more.

When she lays out her debate points, it feels true. Bernie will have to fight hard to overcome, and he'll need more than "facts."

[fredamae]

48. I wonder if Bernie

will get as many Q's/Time as the other candidates? I can see Webb/Chaffee/O'Malley/Biden getting More time b/c "poor things have been out of MSM spotlight and "we" need to know them better."
I mean...Whaddya gonna Do about it, if they don't after-all?
Agree with her or not---Look at DWS personal goal oriented manipulative management style since being DNC Chair and consequence of her actions...we Lose.
She's running all of us around as if we are mere puppets on her strings.

[BernieFan57]

50. CNN will try to fix this for Clinton. CNN should be disqualified, period.

It should be obvious by now that the corporate media supports the corporate candidates.

Once upon a time, the League of Women Voters and other neutral organizations were tasked with important matters like this.

Only this morning did it occur to me that we might be screwed, and I ask that everyone be prepared for serious bias in the manner in which CNN conducts this thing.

Seriously, a Fox News debate couldn't be any worse.

They're all in the tank for the corporate candidates.

[zappaman]

68. Ok.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Bernie isn't a performer and I doubt he regards the debate

as a performance. He's not taking the stage at the Met as Rodolfo in La Boheme; he's just going to say what he means. No rehearsals, no scripts. The nice thing about always and consistently saying what you mean is that you don't have to anticipate a question so you can rehearse a nice, scripted non-answer.

[EdwardBernays]

53. Not sure I follow?

I mean he's not rehearsing debating, but he's studying data, etc.

I'm not sure he need's any prep for the actual debating part of it.

[demwing]

71. Don't underestimate the challenge he faces

Hillary. Formidable.

[MADem]

58. Don't forget JIM WEBB....nobody gives a better speech, and nobody uses words better.

He's a writer, after all.

I think he may grab a chunk of that stage and the imaginations of a few, as well.

I don't think he's a winner, but he is not without a certain appeal.

Another guy who can make a compelling argument is Linc Chaffee. He may grab a few fans with his sunny smile and his earnest ways.

It'll be interesting, in any event.

[sadoldgirl]

64. It does not help to analyze the event now,

because none of us know the questions. I hope

that the questions are fair, but don't count on it.

[azmom]

69. People are drawn to his authenticity. Why mess with that?

Also, Hillary comes off over rehearsed she needs to lay off rehearsing.

[Zorra]

72. Bernie will speak the truth, knowledgeably, accurately, and with

obvious sincerity.

People will see that he is truly authentic. Most people love authentic, and despise phonies.

Bernie is going to shine like the sun.

[demwing]

75. Even the sun can be blocked by a cloud

Hillary is that cloud, don't underestimate her.

[Zorra]

86. I'm sure Bernie already knows

which games they are going to play before they do. Bernie has been the only socialist in a Congress full of capitalist parasites for many years. He didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday

Bernie will turn whatever Machiavellian devices they employ to his advantage.

[AgingAmerican]

76. This will be very easy for Bernie

She is the one playing, 'me too'. That's why she has to do so much research.

[demwing]

80. it's a strong debate tactic for Hillary.

She'll be hard to nail down. Bernie will have an up hill battle, for sure. Any point he scores will be considered a major win.

[AgingAmerican]

84. She will be pretending

And he will be speaking from the heart. It will be effortless for him and a struggle to regurgitate memorized lines for her.

[Ino]

93. Indeed...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/us/politics/in-debate-hillary-clinton-will-display-skills-honed-over-a-lifetime.html

John Spencer, who challenged Mrs. Clinton in her 2006 Senate re-election race, said the only time he got the best of her was when he “was able to expose that she’s like a palm tree, blowing this way and that” depending on what is politically expedient.

She has to figure out how to explain her flip-flopping, which she's done on nearly every issue!

[bkkyosemite]

81. I saw an intro on CNN this morning

it was about the debates. It shows Hillary saying if you want a President that will listen to the people then I'm her (paraphrased). They show her then they show the debate time...why not show all the candidates...well the fix is in.

[frylock]

92. They also have a promo featuring Bernie..

saw it over the weekend.

[DCBob]

83. I think this will come off as the "polished elder stateswoman" versus the "gruff elder socialist".

Last edited Mon Oct 12, 2015, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Could be a tough night for Bernie.

[demwing]

87. After contemeplating all the above, I'm convinced that Hillalry will have a strong debate

I hope Bernie keeps up. Even a tie would be a great win.

[Avalux]

96. It's not a difficult challenge when honesty and long held beliefs are driving his answers.

Bernie HAS been spending time consulting with folks so he can dive deep into issues, so I wouldn't say he's not preparing. He also said he isn't going to attack Clinton or have any one-line zingers.

I'm not worried about Bernie. He'll do just fine.

[jwirr]

97. He knows his stuff and he believes in it. All he has to do is

be real. She changes her mind on many things and she has to think about how to say something so that she can slip out of it later. She will have trouble.

Seeing a good debater is different than being one.

[olddots]

98. Bernie is not a Master debater

He has his stuff together , a great deal of the American people do not know how to accept that govern,ent isn't show business .