William Pitt on voting for the IWR: "History defends this explanation"

[Nye Bevan]

I felt confident that Bush would work with the international community. I took the President at his word. We were told that any course would lead through the United Nations, and that war would be an absolute last resort. Many people I am close with, both Democrats and Republicans, who are also close to Bush told me unequivocally that no decisions had been made about the course of action. Bush hadn't yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew. Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You're God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake.

History defends this explanation. The Bush administration brought Resolution 1441 to the United Nations in early November of 2002 regarding Iraq, less than a month after the Senate vote. The words weapons inspectors were prominent in the resolution, and were almost certainly the reason the resolution was approved unanimously by the Security Council. Hindsight reveals that Bush's people likely believed the Hussein regime would reject the resolution because of those inspectors. When Iraq opened itself to the inspectors, accepting the terms of 1441 completely, the administration was caught flat-footed, and immediately began denigrating the inspectors while simultaneously piling combat troops up on the Iraq border. The promises made to Kerry and the Senate that the administration would work with the U.N., would give the inspectors time to complete their work, that war would be an action of last resort, were broken.

Kerry completed his answer by leaning in close to Alterman, eyes blazing, and said, Eric, if you truly believe that if I had been President, we would be at war in Iraq right now, then you shouldn't vote for me.

http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/46460-william-rivers-pitt--the-trial-of-john-kerry

He's talking about John Kerry's vote for the IWR, of course, but all of this equally applies to Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden who both voted the same way.

[JI7]

1. i wonder why Pitt doesn't write supportive articles like that about Sanders or whoever he supports

[sabrina 1]

3. Why do you wonder about that?

[Autumn]

28. I often wonder that about many Clinton supporters myself.

[SwampG8r]

2. He's entitled.to his opinion

As am I
Hillary is unfit for the office is mine

[Nye Bevan]

4. I support Hillary but I also believe that any of the Democratic candidates are "fit for office".

Especially when compared to any of the Republican alternatives.

[sabrina 1]

5. Same here, she has made some terrible decisions that have cost so much to so many lives.

Not just the awful, deadly War in Iraq Vote, but the Welfare Reform Bill which she boasts was one of her successes. And her very, very late support of Civil Rights for Gays, which cost so much to so many Americans due to her religious beliefs.

Religion has no part in Politics.

I want a leader who GOT IT RIGHT more often than s/he GOT IT WRONG!

Elected office is not a learning center where people have time to 'evolve'. Damn, the very thought that there are people EXCUSING all of this??? One million deaths, untold numbers of people maimed and tortured!

It disgusts me frankly, the flip flopping on things this important.

[marym625]

9. don't forget No Child Left Behind

And the carnage that has happened to education because of that vote

[stonecutter357]

19. I guess Drones are OK with you

[Joey Joe Joe]

30. Better than sending out live human beings to harm's way

and spending millions supporting them.

[Gman]

6. I'll be damned

Pitt and I agree for once.

[SheilaT]

7. Some of us clearly understood

that we were being lied into the Iraq War. I have nothing but disgust for all those who voted for it. Unfortunately, too many of them stayed in office or in some sort of public life. And most are utterly unrepentant.

[Nye Bevan]

10. Somehow Joe Biden seems to have escaped the "disgusting warmonger" label here on DU,

despite his voting the same way as Hillary Clinton for the IWR. Not sure why.

[SheilaT]

12. I believe it's been duly noted here.

But he really is not running, and so at the moment his vote isn't that important.

[m-lekktor]

13. I've seen it mentioned whenever somebody has suggested Biden run for president. nt

[sabrina 1]

16. He isn't running. IF he does, he definitely will be held accountable for his many

votes on many issues that for me, make him an undesirable candidate. I never trusted him frankly. He would say things that sounded great, like before voting for a Bush SC nominee. Then would go in and vote the exact opposite of what he had just said.

I want no Corporate Funded candidates, or anyone who voted for the human disaster in Iraq.

I want leaders who are smarter than I am since I don't feel qualified to be POTUS.

So when I see someone asking for that job who wasn't even as smart as I was, I know they are even less qualified than I am for the job.

[reddread]

23. compared to ensconcing Clarence Thomas in Thurgood's stead?

small potatoes.

Biden is the lowest form of life on the planet.

[Dawgs]

32. He was never the front runner when running for President.

And, no one cares or votes for a VP.

[marym625]

8. Kerry said,

Kerry completed his answer by leaning in close to Alterman, eyes blazing, and said, Eric, if you truly believe that if I had been President, we would be at war in Iraq right now, then you shouldn t vote for me

There in lies the difference. With Hillary Clinton, the answer is a resounding yes, we would be at war.

I don't excuse any yes vote for that war.

[virtualobserver]

11. Bush hadn't yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew?

Please...No offense to Mr. Pitt, but Bush would never have arrived at this point on his own.

Kerry showed his naiveté in more ways than one.....and maybe Hillary was naive as well, or maybe she just didn't want to be on the wrong side of the glorious victory in Iraq.

[sgtbenobo]

14. Bush hadn't yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew?

He was chosen for power since birth.

Can't wait til Jeb is painting pictures of his toes. Oh wait, he is.

[KingCharlemagne]

40. She thought she would buff up for national security credentials for a presumptive 2008 presidential

run, a decision that shall live in infamy.

[Fumesucker]

15. One of the reasons I don't much care for Pitt...

[chillfactor]

17. agreed....

when I see a posting by Pitt I just ignore it....

[Bohunk68]

21. I see you didn't ignore this one, though.

[joshcryer]

18. Bush was going to war with or without a resolution.

In that vein I find the votes pure politics and have never placed much weight on them. Ever. Even when Dean was using them as a talking point. I remember Cheney going on the networks and talking about how they were going to use old 90s resolutions as a justification for invasion since we were still at war with Iraq. I remember Powell dropping platitudes about WMDs. I remeber Rice's absolutely bullshit "we know Iraq is lying about WMDs" editorial.

Bush, the war criminal, was invading Iraq regardless.

You might be able to argue that the votes gave Bush a "cover" for his war crimes. That's as dumb as saying that the 70% of people who believed in the Saddam-9/11 connection excused Bush from his war crimes.

But nope, Bush, the war criminal, was invading Iraq regardless.

[stevenleser]

25. Without the IWR it's likely the war would have been within the bounds of international law.

As counter-intuitive as it seems, UN SEC RES 1441 that Pitt talks about and the IWR were about forcing Iraq to readmit the weapons inspectors.

If they had not been pressured to readmit them, Iraq would have remained in material breach of UN Resolutions Iraq itself had agreed to abide by at the end of the first Gulf War. That would have made any country going to war to enforce those resolutions within the bounds of international law.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan

The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.

Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. In an interview with the BBC World Service broadcast last night, he was asked outright if the war was illegal. He replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added unequivocally: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq

[stevenleser]

31. Correct. The way it went down was illegal and breached UN charter. That's what I said. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

33. After rereading

Last edited Thu Oct 15, 2015, 11:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I see that. Take my post as a clarification that the war was illegal then.

[joshcryer]

43. Oh yes. 1441 was completely violated.

But that happened without IWR.

[stevenleser]

44. It took both 1441 and IWR to get Iraq to admit the Weapons inspectors again.

Had the weapons inspectors not been admitted by Iraq, they would have remained in material breach of the UN Resolutions at the end of the first gulf war to which Iraq was a signatory.

[joshcryer]

45. IWR didn't enable 1441.

Though I see what you're getting at, 1441 was a response to IWR, which Bush argued was not necessary and you seem to even agree with that view going on old Iraq war resolutions.

It can be argued that Resolution 1284 allowed inspectors back in but because the US didn't make any good faith effort to return them that it invalidated any claims that the US had with regards to material breach of anything. UNMOVIC did send in inspectors and Saddam did destroy the chemicals (Scott Ritter made that case quite well) but Bush just acted as if nothing was done and persisted that Saddam was trying to produce WMDs.

What should be said is that Bush was never serious about "inspectors" at any time in office.

[stevenleser]

46. I didn't say it did. I'm saying Iraq resisted readmitting the inspectors and all of the pressure

applied was necessary to get Hussein to change his mind.

If he hadn't he would have been in material breach and the war would have been justified in terms of international law.

I agree 100% that Bush was never serious about the inspectors at any time. My belief and I wrote exactly this in articles in 2006 and 2009 is that the Bush administration hoped that despite 1441 and IWR that the Iraqi's would not admit the inspectors and then the case for war would have been unassailable, even if no WMD had been found subsequently.

The argument would have gone "How could we have known that without the weapons inspectors on the ground which Iraq was obligated to allow per the 1991 ceasefire agreements that Iraq signed."

And that would have been an ironclad argument.

Instead, the weapons inspectors were admitted, they found no material breach in terms of WMD and their reports said so, and we have a war crime the moment the Bush administration invaded.

[joshcryer]

47. Fair enough, but UNSCOM was there until 1998.

They left when Clinton decided to just bomb the facilities that they weren't being allowed access to.

I still think Bush was going in with or without IWR and with or without 1441. And I think the vote was mostly political and not enabling as far as Bush was concerned.

[Motown_Johnny]

20. But the people who got it right would still make a better Commander In Chief.

Spin all you want, that one simple fact can't be avoided.

[restorefreedom]

22. history doesn't defend this

they can asked the question in another hundred years and it will be the same answer. There were many among us, including elected officials, who knew that this was a pack of lies and that Cheney just want to get his butt into iraq for the oil. No excuses. even the dimwitted Chafee who was a republican at the time and was facing a lot more pressure to vote for the war, could see it was a fabrication and voted against it. No excuses. It was a wrong vote and anybody who couldn't see that at the time should not be president it's that simple.

this is just another attempt to let Hillary off the hook for her vote so people will forget how incredibly politically calculating or incompetent, take your pic, it was.

[SidDithers]

24. Pitt is nothing if not inconsistent...

I'm eagerly anticipating his "HILLARY IS A PIECE OF SHIT USED CAR SALESWOMAN" piece.

Just so I can laugh at it.

Sid

[stonecutter357]

35. +1

[Xyzse]

26. I agree with that, and it is one of the reasons I don't consider it when voting for someone.

That is, unless they say that the Iraq war is not a mistake, and they would do the same thing knowing what they know now.

If that were the case, I would drop them. However, the Democratic candidates tend to agree that it was the wrong decision and that they felt lied to. So, I will leave it at that.

[KingCharlemagne]

41. LOL - Kerry essentially said this in 2004 in Boulder Colorado. After I picked jaw up off the floor,

I held my nose and voted for Kerry. But my heart was no longer in it.

[Xyzse]

55. I can understand.

I merely took him at his word in that one. I must say that during the run up to the Iraq war, due to the media and everything else, I also considered that it might be best to at least have the option in the table.

I didn't realize that they would actually just go ahead and invade. I felt quite betrayed at the time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Bookmarked without comment./nt

[stevenleser]

34. I've bookmarked it too. Amazing the abuse I've gotten from Pitt fans when I said the same things. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. That was then. This is now.

[KingCharlemagne]

36. Total unadulterated horseshit! Are you really trying to exonerate Hillary Clinton from her

AUMF vote based on this pack of easily debunked lies? Your credibility is going in the crapper, along with Kerry's, Hillary's, and Pitt's. It would be laughable, were 1,000,000+ Iraqi civilians not dead, wounded or displaced.

You should be ashamed for posting and defending such drivel.

[Major Hogwash]

49. Hillary will be held accountable. Count on it.

There's no doubt in my mind of that fact.
The memories of 5000 dead American soldiers will not be forgotten that easily.

[KingCharlemagne]

50. Sanders is too much of a class act. But I hope

He has a Rahm- or Rove- type in his circle who will hang Iraq around her neck from here to eternity.

[EndElectoral]

56. Chafee did challenge her on it, but the media never really addressed the Iraq vote after the debate.

[Zorra]

37. Those are not the beliefs, or opinions, of Will Pitt. Will is paraphasing a response

made by John Kerry to this question:

(paraphrased for simplicity)

Senator Kerry, why did you vote for the war?

Senator, said Alterman, I think you may be the most qualified candidate in the race, and perhaps also the one who best represents my own values. But there was one overriding issue facing this nation during the past four years, and Howard Dean was there when it counted, and you weren t. A lot of people feel that moment entitles him to their vote, even if you have a more progressive record and would be a stronger candidate in November. How are you going to win back those people who you lost with your vote for this awful war?

There it was. Your record is the best, Mr. Kerry. But you voted for the war, Mr. Kerry. Howard Dean was right, Mr. Kerry, and you were not. Your campaign has been wounded, perhaps mortally, because of this. Explain yourself, and while you re at it, explain how you are going to win back enough Dean voters to keep you from becoming a footnote in this race.

For over a year now, Kerry has struggled to respond to that question. His answers have seemed vague, overly nuanced and evasive. On Thursday, seated before the sharpest knives in the journalistic drawer and facing the unconcealed outrage of Alterman, the Senator from Massachusetts explained why he did what he did. The comments below reflect Kerry s answers over the course of a long conversation and debate on the matter.
snip---
...History defends this explanation. The Bush administration brought Resolution 1441 to the United Nations in early November of 2002 regarding Iraq, less than a month after the Senate vote. The words weapons inspectors were prominent in the resolution, and were almost certainly the reason the resolution was approved unanimously by the Security Council. Hindsight reveals that Bush s people likely believed the Hussein regime would reject the resolution because of those inspectors. When Iraq opened itself to the inspectors, accepting the terms of 1441 completely, the administration was caught flat-footed, and immediately began denigrating the inspectors while simultaneously piling combat troops up on the Iraq border. The promises made to Kerry and the Senate that the administration would work with the U.N., would give the inspectors time to complete their work, that war would be an action of last resort, were broken.

http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/46460-william-rivers-pitt--the-trial-of-john-kerry

There are no justifications for voting for the Iraq War, only poorly conceived invalid reasons, and lame excuses. Kerry's lame attempt at explaining his poor judgment does absolutely nothing to let Kerry, Clinton, or Biden off the hook for voting to give Cheney and Bush license attack Iraq whenever they felt like doing so. Most progressives knew that Cheney, Bush and the rest of their cabal were lying, and we screamed it from the rooftops on a daily basis.

Bernie Sanders is on of us, one of the progressives who knew Cheney, Bush, and the rest of the PNAC neocons were lying through their teeth and out their asses as well.

Vote for Bernie Sanders. Unlike Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, Bernie was too smart and perceptive to even consider falling for bullshit lies from malicious RW neocon phonies like Cheney, Bush, etc. Unlike Clinton or Biden, Bernie does not have the potential, when elected Commander-in-Chief of the United States, to instigate a senseless war like the Iraq disaster, because Bernie is simply too smart and perceptive to ever be deceived by malicious bullshit artists.

OTOH, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden, have proven that evil people are capable of convincing them to agree to give evil people license to kill millions in senseless, totally unjustifiable wars.

Why settle for less, when you can have the very best?

[KingCharlemagne]

38. Please, please, make this an OP! - nt

[Zorra]

39. No time to do that right now.

But thank you for thinking it is OP worthy.

[Generic Other]

48. Thank you for clearing up

the reading comprehension issues of several posters in this thread. You have to click on the original article to find out that it was Kerry not Will who was being quoted.

[peacebird]

51. Agree it applies to all three of them. Makes all three of them nonstarters for Pres in my opinion

I saw thru the IWR as did millions of others around the globe. Bernie saw thru it too, and voted appropriately.

[Nye Bevan]

52. Did you vote for Kerry in 2004 in November? (nt)

[peacebird]

53. May Kerry go down as the last vote I ever gave for lesser of two evils

I have the chance to vote for someone I believe in this time out, and I will do so. Hillary has the IWR but she also stabds for fracking, more H1B visas, outsourcing, Monsanto, and frankly I find her comment "we came, we saw, he died" shockingly offputting.

No way will I ever vote for Hillary.

On edit: there is also the trust issue. For pete's sake she even LIED about dodging sniper fire at the airport - knowing press videotaped the ceemony! That's actually two problems, lying and being incredibly vain or stupid enough to think she would get away with it.

[Nye Bevan]

54. While I support Hillary, and hate Bernie's stance on gun control,

I will unhesitatingly vote for Bernie in November 2016 if he wins the Democratic primary.

[EndElectoral]

57. There are some lines in the sand. Sorry, the Iraq vote was my line in the sand.

I will vote for a DEM, but cannot vote for anyone who voted for that war.

[Nye Bevan]

58. So you didn't vote for Kerry in 2004?

Kind of ironic, expressing your disgust for those who supported the Iraq War by helping the guy who started it get re-elected.