Don't let the Bernie movement hijack the word "progressive."

[DanTex]

On substance, Hillary and Bernie stand for very much the same things. Raising the minimum wage, protecting unions, investing in clean energy, expanding the safety net, gender/racial/LGBT equality, and so on. This is what progressivism is about: making the country better, fairer, cleaner, and more equitable. All the leading Dem candidates, and their core supporters are progressive.

The difference is, in order to be part of the hardcore Bernie movement, you have to subscribe a bunch of loony beliefs. For example:
1) That pollsters are deliberately skewing their polls in favor of Hillary.
2) That elected leaders of major unions are intentionally betraying their causes because they have been bought off by Hillary henchmen.
3) That most pundits have been given orders by their corporate bosses to write pro-Hillary articles (and that despite ignoring those orders most of the time, they haven't been fired).
4) That self-selecting internet polls represent the "will of the people".
5) That donations from people who work at corporations are the same as corporate donations.

If progressiveness becomes associated with conspiracy theories, it will hinder the growth of the progressive movement, because sane people don't want to be associated with nutty beliefs, and it will also turn off independents and moderates.

Ask an average American whether they support a higher minimum wage, they'll say yes. But if you start calling everyone under the sun a "corporatist" or a "bankster" because their cousin's roommate once opened a bank account with HSBC, they're going to think you're a nut. And for good reason.

Progressivism is about positive social change, and it's also about reason and science. Don't let the conspiracy theories coming out of the Bernie movement change that.

[Scuba]

1. Hillary denies being a progressive, describes herself as "moderate."

And in case you're not aware, votes on issues like, for example, a war resolution are not the same as votes on an issue, like, for example, naming a post office.

[DanTex]

3. Hillary Clinton: 'I'm A Progressive, But I'm A Progressive Who Likes To Get Things Done'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-progressive_561dafabe4b050c6c4a35c32

[HerbChestnut]

15. You never know what she'll say, do you?

It's almost as if she'll change her message depending on who's listening...

[Major Hogwash]

33. She was for it before she was against it.

But, she says that it depends on the definition of "progressive", as well.
If voting for wars makes one progressive, then she must be in the wrong party.

[berni_mccoy]

39. That was said less than 10 days after she said she was a moderate

These are her own words, changing radically in short succession depending on the audience.

[djean111]

50. I am afraid of the things she would like to get done.

Simple as that, really.

[Nye Bevan]

6. Do you have a link for where she denies being a progressive?

Thanks in advance.

[Scuba]

37. Sure ...

"You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center," Clinton told the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. "I plead guilty."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-democrat-progressive/index.html


She can't be both. Was she lying when she said she was moderate or was she lying when she said she was progressive? Considering her record - and her backers - I'm convinced she was lying when she said she was progressive.

[NCTraveler]

40. I love that you can't back it up.

I will ask again for a link where she denies being a progressive. You made the claim, as it stands it is completely false on your part. Stating she denies being a progressive is obviously a lie. I at least appreciate you show you can't back it up. Link to where she denies being a progressive?

[99th_Monkey]

47. Your optometrist is called, it's time to schedule a check-up -nt-

"I get accused of being kind of MODERATE .. I plead guilty"

[NCTraveler]

49. Your personal attack aside. There are now two of you that can't back it up.

The poster stated that Clinton denies being a progressive. That is an absolute lie at this point. Now there are two of you to do the research. Please find a quote backing up said posters claim. Specially if you want to drop personal attacks that have no place. Now two of you have not been able to back up the claim. I do wear glasses. I haven't had the old four eye thing trotted out since grade school.

[99th_Monkey]

54. Please tell me again how saying "I'm a moderate" is NOT "denying being a Progressive" again?

the ball's in your court.

[tblue]

61. Here ya go. At :35

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/cbs-allows-hillary-concede-she-s-kind-moderate-and-center-politically

It's not me saying it.

[99th_Monkey]

79. Well, maybe she said she's a moderate, but .. but ..

she didn't really mean she isn't also a progressive, or something like that.

[Matariki]

51. Hello Kafka.

[Nye Bevan]

45. You seem to be suggesting that all progressives are extremists.

Who said progressives can't be moderates?

[Armstead]

78. NO but progressives are not "center" and not "moderate" when that means status quo

I'm kind of moderate too. But my idea of moderate is the values of liberal democrat,, like FDR, LBJ (minus the war)....These days those guys would be considered off the charts leftist.

Moderate and center is code for "I'm not goinbg to change too much." Progressve next to that means nothing.

[onehandle]

10. You must have missed that thing she said to millions of people a couple of weeks ago...

[img][/img]

[JRLeft]

23. After she pleaded guilty to being a moderate. She's a corporatist, bad for America.

Not as bad as a total republican, but she's still a Republican. Just republican lite.

[NCTraveler]

32. "Hillary denies being a progressive"

Link?

[Scuba]

38. Sure ..

"You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center," Clinton told the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. "I plead guilty."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/hillary-clinton-democrat-progressive/index.html


She can't be both. Was she lying when she said she was moderate or was she lying when she said she was progressive? Considering her record - and her backers - I'm convinced she was lying when she said she was progressive.

[Demeter]

65. More likely both statements are lies

What Hillary is: opportunistic.

[Segami]

34. Clinton Finally Admits She Is A Moderate-Centrist!

[Wilms]

2. Hillary's cousin's roommate once opened a bank account with HSBC?

OMFG! I am soooo done with her.

Nice try, Dan. Not really.

[DanTex]

5. Forgot about that conspiracy theory: that Hillary is evil because she's been photographed with

someone that you don't like.

Thanks for reminding me.

[Wilms]

7. Ohhhh. "conspiracy theory".

I'm crushed.

[Armstead]

4. You are brilliant at broad brush mischaracterizations

Simplifying complicated things to the point of nonsensical.

[Iliyah]

8. K & R

[whatchamacallit]

9. Translation: Don't let the Bernie movement

interfere with our misapplication of the term 'progressive'.

[mmonk]

11. Obviously, the term means something different to us.

[DanTex]

13. That's my point. Progressive to me means supporting the kinds of policies I listed.

Progressive to some other people means a bunch of nutty conspiracy theories. My point is, don't let the conspiracy theory progressives hijack the word from the social change progressives.

[HerbChestnut]

17. "A bunch of nutty conspiracy theories"

Welp, I guess all Bernie supporters are nut jobs. Case closed. My goodness...

[Chan790]

20. Don't mind Dan.

I'd be disappointed if Dan didn't claim Hillary was a progressive...it would actually make me question my sanity if he just admitted Hillary was a center-right candidate as is apparent to anybody paying attention.

[upaloopa]

80. List her 2016 center right ideas ok?

Hillary spoke about every one of her positions in IA Saturday so it shouldn't be hard for you to listen to her speech and pull out the center right positions.

What you don't want to listen to a word she says.
I thought so since all you do is make up shit.

[ProgressiveVC]

83. A short list

-Financial reform
-Tax reform
-Budget proposals
-Foreign policy (like, all of it)
-Banking regulation

thats off the top of my head..

[upaloopa]

91. Those are titles not plans or positions.

Most of the anti Hillary posts on this board are empty meaningless rhetoric.

[ProgressiveVC]

92. YES TITLES of the positions which shes center right

Hillary Clinton, who never saw a war she didn't vote for, has a center right foreign policy.

Hillary Clinton, as junior senator of NY, kindly asked Wall Street to 'knock it off.'

Hillary Clinton, promises the third way of compromising Social Security and Medicare.

So, yes, those are titles. Titles of the positions of why I will not be voting for HRC in the primary.

[JaneyVee]

12. Brogressives.

[Kalidurga]

27. I am stealing that

thanks.

[sufrommich]

14. Well said. k&r. nt

[KittyWampus]

16. Hillary may have some Progressive tendencies but overall, she doesn't define that term

not the way Sanders and O'Malley do.

[Chan790]

18. Dan, the progressive movement is rallied around saving Democrats from Clintonism at this point.

Hillary calling herself a progressive is like David Duke joining the Congress of Racial Equality...it defies rational belief but there's nothing stopping her from doing the incredible...by which I mean "that which is not credible."

We don't need to hijack the term...a progressive can't do the things she's done or take money from the people she's taken money from or believe the things she believes and remain a progressive. This is naught but another lame attempt to move the moderate window to further disenfranchise the left-of-center.

To say "Yes" to progressive values is to say "No, now and forever!" to Hillary.

[Live and Learn]

19. It depends on your meaning of the word "progressive," I suppose. nt

[JRLeft]

24. Progressive in a regressive way.

[Live and Learn]

31. Well said.

[Demeter]

69. LOL!

DUzy and bon mot!

[Scuba]

21. Hillary is a progressive in the same way that Bristol Palin is a virgin.

[Segami]

43. LOL!

[ornotna]

60. Yep.

[betsuni]

22. K&R

[NCTraveler]

25. For starters, it isn't "the Bernie movement."

Kucinich and others have been holding this sector for decades. He isn't even polling that much higher than some of the past people carrying this mantle. Second, Sanders is a progressive. He can call himself whatever he wants but actions are what matters. He has shown himself to be one of the most progressive people out there. His rhetoric is red meat for his base. He knows who they are and it is the reason he repeats the same thing over and over again. He knows these are the people filling his coffers and who are willing to work for him. He panders to that segment as all politicians do. They buy it hook, line and sinker.

I do agree that progressivism shouldn't be linked to many of the things you pointed out in your op. Fact is, many of those things have nothing to do with progressivism. They do have to do with outliers in society. I like your second to last sentence. Your points are also spot on, just not sure it can be neatly wrapped up in the discussion of a phrase as you are trying to do.

[tk2kewl]

26. Oh brother

[pinebox]

28. Are you kidding me?

Loony beliefs while you support a candidate who changes her mind all the damn time on everything?

This is NOT progressive.

Threatening to lob bombs at Iran.
Being against a $15/hr minimum wage.
Being against single payer.
Being against same sex marriage.
Being pro-trade deals which screw the American worker.
Describing yourself as a moderate then the next week, you wake up and say "Hey! It's Monday! I'm a progressive now!"

No. Sorry, she's a blue dog DINO at heart.
Ike was more progressive than Hillary in many ways.



The truth is the polls and all that jazz, you all seem to keep forgetting something.
At this stage of the election, Obama was doing WORSE than what Hillary currently is. You can ra ra all you want but if you forget history, you're bound to repeat it.

I'll let my president do the bidding here, go watch it!
"Obama, I can't tell whom I'm running against sometimes".
No shit.

[Kalidurga]

29. You can have the word progressive knock yourself out.

Run with it have fun with it mold it into whatever you will. I am a liberal before all else. Bernie is appealing to the liberals of the party not necessarily just the progressives.

[Skidmore]

55. I wonder how many posts I've seen go by in DU in which

great care was taken to draw a distinction between being a liberal and being a progressive? A goodly number, to be sure. I used to take time to argue that I was both liberal and progressive and I stopped after a while because it was clear that this was something undertaken by design. Who wants to split the left? You tell me.

[Kalidurga]

85. There has always been a split

It's not a manufactured from the outside split either it's only natural. There are people who are more like anarchists like myself and those who are more authoritarian. Anarchists are liberals, authoritarians are progressives.

[Skidmore]

86. Since when?

We have been given to believe that anarchists are the true progressives. I am liberal and progressive. Sometimes people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. "the bernie movement"

...lol

[elleng]

35. 'They' can have a WORD,

we MO'Mers GET THINGS DONE!

[Fearless]

36. Bwahahahaha! Best joke I've heard all night!

[Bluenorthwest]

41. The word is not the point, it's the actions.

For example, your game of characterization of your political rivals is not at all progressive, it is a hallmark tactic of the right wing but not the upscale right, it's pure AM radio material.

[DirkGently]

42. Nice gas lighting attempt. "Liberals are crazy."

This is really poor propagandizing. Hillary Clinton is not a progressive, period. Any hijacking therefore is on her part.

If you think her center-right record and policies are better, argue that. Argue why Wall Street just needs a good scolding. Argue why we don't need Glass-Steagall. Why Iraq was the right call. Why marriage equality was a bad thing before it was a good thing.

Telling the actual left that it's crazy just proves the opposite.

[Major Hogwash]

44. Oh my stars and garters, this is absurd!!

How can one "hijack" a term that fits them to a "tee"?

I can't believe you think Hillary is more progressive than Bernie.
Bernie is so progressive, he's a racist!
Haven't you been reading DU lately?
Sheesh!

[dmosh42]

46. accepting huge donations from corporations and billionaires doesn't allow for being a 'progressive..

so let's stop with your bullshit! Bernie & Hillary are miles apart in real life, but if you think they're the same, Hillary wouldn't mind getting rid of her super pacs.

[Autumn]

48. What is she this week? A progressive or a moderate?

The rest of your OP is what is found in a stall... in a barn...on the floor.

[djean111]

52. What is your plan for that? Taking out a trademark on the word "Progressive"?

Oh, and I do not see Hillary as a model for positive social change. IMO she just talks about it a lot. And changes it according to polls and focus groups. Not worth listening to, for me.

[Skidmore]

53. The word "progressive" has certainly become

bastardized by "progressives." You are correct. Allowing it to be used as a bludgeon is divisive and counterproductive to change. We all want our nation to move forward.

[AgingAmerican]

56. Hillary isn't a 'progressive' she is a 'moderate'

...which is to the right of progressive. What does 'moderate' even mean? Is there a 'moderate' political ideology in existence? If so, what is it?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. "Moderate" here would be Margaret Thatcher in Britain.

[AgingAmerican]

62. She was essentially a female Reagan

[Spitfire of ATJ]

70. Yup, and Reagan would be too Liberal for some Hillary supporters....

Amnesty?

[SoapBox]

57. She said it herself...Moderate.

But since she is Flip-Flopping around already, telling different groups different things...

Camp Weathervane...round and round she goes!

And Trust...I don't trust her on anything.

[CoffeeCat]

58. Hillary is a corporate-money taker and a warmonger...

To suggest that she and Bernie have similar platforms is so ludicrous, it's beyond the pale.

I wonder if you are even paying attention or if you know anything about Hillary or Bernie.

Bernie gets his money from "We The People" because he will serve "We The People."

Hillary's biggest campaign donors are Goldman Sachs, Citibank, Time Warner and other big banks. Those are Hillary's key publics.

She's also saber rattled for war with Iran and refused to walk back her Iraq War vote--despite the common knowledge that it was a horrendous lie-based war based on manufactured intelligence. She's taken money from big Pharma and from the private-prison lobby that wants to continue running a for-profit prison model that thrives only when US citizens are locked up. SICK.

Daran Kagan, a neocon kingmaker has said that he is, "Fine with Hillary's foreign-policy stances."

Hillary is part of the problem. Bernie is part of the solution.

I've never seen a greater chasm with any two Democratic frontrunners. Clinton and Obama were more similar than Clinton and Sanders. To suggest that these two "want the same things" is a laughable stretch.

[treestar]

63. Agree, both Hillary and Bernie are progressive

Loony CTs are just that - Loony CTs

[Gamecock Lefty]

64. Bernie is a Progressive . . .

Just like he's a Democrat!

[Scootaloo]

66. Interesting that you talk about conspiracy theories while positing one

[bvar22]

67. All BS.

The only thing a Bernie supporter has to remember how far behind Obama was at this point in 2008.
That is all.

[daleanime]

68. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Maedhros]

71. Words have meaning.

"Progressive" is more than a marketing label.

Hillary is no Progressive. Not by a long shot. Progressives do not:

1. Vote for illegal foreign wars.
2. Prostrate themselves before Wall Street for campaign cash.
3. Cozy up to the private prison industry.

[Hissyspit]

72. Oh, good grief.

[Ed Suspicious]

73. Are you serious? Frank Luntz would be proud.

[UglyGreed]

74. Don't let Hillary

tell you she's not a Republican in sheep's clothing......

[bowens43]

77. ROFL!! Bernie and hillary are as different as day and night, good and evil

hillary is not a progressive, she's not a liberal. At best she is center right

[jalan48]

81. I guess if you compare Hillary to the average Goldman Sachs exec. then yes, she is a Progressive

[ProgressiveVC]

82. DANTEX, im curious what your goal is here

is it

1. Back-patting from Clinton supporters who are too stupid to read between the lines?
2. Inspire Sanders voters to stay home on general election day?
3. Spit vitriol about non-issues?
4. Increase the amount of ridiculousness falling out of HRC supporters mouths, like turds in a toilet?

Please pick 1-4.

[Warren Stupidity]

84. Why are those mutually exclusive?

[AgingAmerican]

87. Bottom feeding

[sheshe2]

88. K&R

[zappaman]

89. Actually, it was the libertarians on this board that started this years ago.

As part of their attacks on Obama.
Sanders "supporters" are just carrying on the tradition.

[Broward]

90. Please by all means support her, but stop pretending she's something she's not.