What is the history on "when women talk, others/men think its shouting". It seems a total invention

[Rilgin]

I am somewhat confused. It is not women who are often accused of shouting in political discussions between the sexes. It is men who are accused of shouting over women. In fact men are accused of shouting in many circumstances. Just google men shout vs woman shout.

To the contrary, I have never heard any man, woman, pundit, sexist, recite that when women talk it sounds like shouting. I have found other critiques based on shouting but they are usually about men (see below). This line about women shouting seems to be something that sounded good but was totally made up to give a talking point that implied sexism.

Men are often accused of not letting women talk. Men are often accused of shouting over women's voices and not letting them talk. I believe this to be a very valid critique of groups. It is not just addressed to rightists but also has been leveled against men in the anti-war and civil rights movements. This has been the political critique for decades. That men do not listen to women's voices, not that women shout.

However that was not the critique of the interaction. It was not about Bernie shouting over Hillary. If I look at this and try to find sexism, the sexist critique of the interaction should seem be that Bernie was shouting at Hillary, was not letting her talk, was patronizing, dismissive or bullying or some variation. It would not be this weird formulation that Bernie heard Hillary's voice as shouting because sexists always hear women's voices as shouting.

Can someone tell me where this new meme comes from? Where historically anyone has ever accused women as a gender of shouting when they discuss things?

[murielm99]

1. All this shouting about shouting

is coming from the Bernie camp. They are the ones trying to create a meme about this.

Have you noticed how many OPs about shouting have been started by his supporters?

[Recursion]

2. It was a study from a few years ago, which I now can't find

because there was a more recent study about men and women and talking that is eating up all the Google results on the first page for "study men women talk".

At any rate: a focus group of men and women was held on something (the subject of the group wasn't important) and were then asked to describe how much the other members of the group had talked. Men very consistently over-estimated the amount of time women in the group had been talking.

[whathehell]

3. Studies show that, in conversation, men interrupt women more than they interrupt men.

Not a big revelation that many, if not most, men don't like "opinionated" women.

[Rilgin]

7. Thank you somewhat

The study you quoted addresses a conclusion that men over-estimate the amount of time women talk in a group. It does not say that men think that women shout when conversing in a group.

Hillary's exact quote is this: I haven’t been shouting, but sometimes when a woman speaks out, some people think it’s shouting".

This sounds logical or to make sense (whether accurate or not accurate) at first look and I read all the hubbub posts yesterday which seemed to hinge on whether he was addressing hillary directly or not.

However, on deeper look, I thought this sentence does not make sense. I have never heard that any person thinks that "when a woman speaks out, some people think it's shouting". Its clearly a gender attack since she is only applying this to women but does not seem to have any basis in what is seen in the historic problems of gender communications. I have never heard that one of those problems is that anybody or even some people think that women, as a gender, shout when a woman speaks out.

[Recursion]

8. You're probably taking "shout" too literally

The point is men are in general resistant to women having the floor in discussions. If you're asking who actually coined the phrase, IIRC it was Paglia, of all people, quite a while ago.

[Rilgin]

10. you are right.

I did focus on the word Shout because it was the word Hillary used and the focus of most of the threads.

It was clear that Hillary was throwing a jab at Bernie when she said it. However, when I looked at the actual wording it was wierd because as you have pointed out it is not the usual gender claim in criticizing a males communication with a female.

This led me to my actual question as to whether there was a history to the particular use of the word shout in gender critiques. I didnt think so but was curious if there was.

[boston bean]

4. Does there have to be a study to prove this when most women

experience something?

Why? So then someone can point to a study that proves it and then attempt to "unskew" it, tying to make women look like liars?

[NCTraveler]

5. I really really miss seabeyond. Nt

[Recursion]

9. Amen (nt)

[JaneyVee]

6. Lets not let this distract from the real issue:

Bernie's awful record on guns.

[NCTraveler]

11. Or his blocking a pathway to citizenship for millions and millions.

Or his yeah vote on the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Or his yeah vote after yeah vote to supply foreign armies with arms. Or the fact that right after he stumped for Schumlin, Schumlin appointed Sanders wife to two commission positions. Or the fact that his campaign is playing up the whole sexist thing. Or his.......

This is the first time he is being vetted outside of Vermont and there is a group of people who can't stand it. They think that their politician should walk into the White House unvetted. It is horrifying to watch. Meanwhile, Clinton is the most vetted politician in the world.

They don't want him vetted yet the same group cheered their asses off when a poster started "opposition research on Gutierrez." They don't get how offensive it is.

[kelliekat44]

12. All i know is Bernie opened up the "shouting" meme.

Must be ok for Bernie to shout but not Hillary.