2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumProblems I have with Bernie
As much as I'd love to fully support Bernie, I have several problems with him...
1. What the corporate establishment will do to him. I fully remember the Dean Scream moment, and the takedown of OWS. I'm not naive to think that the establishment would not try to take him down. And imagine if that happened in the general election.
2. His age. We need at least two more presidential terms in order to replace at least three of the justices and turn the Supreme Court blue, as well as to replace all the Republican state governments with Democratic state governments in 2020 (through the down ballot effect, which because it coincides with the Census, would allow the Democratic state governments to reverse the gerrymandering that has allowed the House to be in the power of the Republican Party.) If we can have a Democratic president for at least two more terms, we stand a chance to reverse Citizens United, to protect social liberal issues like abortion and gay rights, as well as have a chance to back Congress, and ensure a Federal Government that is completely run by Democrats. Sanders will be 75 if he gets in office and be 79 if he gets a second term. Would Americans trust someone that is 79 to be president till they are 83?
3. Sanders proposals can't be fulfilled unless a whole wave of politicians replace the establishment in Congress. Even then, the system is rigged to guard against sudden change. Only 1/3 of Senators are running in the next election (which is by design), and of course the House is rigged by gerrymandering. You will just have more of the stalemate like Obama, and Republicans will have a chance to attack socialism for the next 4 years at least.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)but can we afford to wait another 4 years in hope that another chance will come along?
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)"The American President" was an Aaron Sorkin political rom-com from 1995 in which President Andrew Shepard (Michael Douglas) falls in love with environmental lobbyist Sydney Ellen Wade (Annette Bening). In the end of the film, President Shepard delivers a speech that every American Liberal desperately wished a real Democratic President would deliver - but, of course, never will. In that speech, President Shepard calls out his opponent Bob Rumson (Richard Dreyfuss) and his campaign for their cynical take on electoral politics.
What the fictional President Shepard said about Rumson applies directly to Democratic advocates of the "lesser of two evils" approach, those strident Democratic apparatchiks who decry any attempt at bold progress with much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the prospect of a Republican victory and demands for falling in line behind the more conservative candidate:
Why do they do this? Why does all the high-minded talk of equal rights, opportunity for all, and ending our incessant wars turn into rationalization for a candidate that has no intention of following through on liberal campaign promises (just like the last candidate)? Another exchange from "The American President" pretty much explains why:
President Andrew Shepard: Lewis, we've had Presidents who were beloved who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand 'cause they're thirsty. They drink the sand 'cause they don't know the difference.
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)...he had already failed to turn his adoring rally crowds into caucus goers in Iowa (coming in a mediocre third) and had a terrible ground game in New Hampshire (I was there the weekend before). The only person to blame for Dean's loss is Dean.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)in only a few days. I remember how the pundits and the comedians twisted the whole thing out of proportion. Dean had a chance to recover from Iowa but the Media destroyed that chance. Even then, many candidates who lose Iowa go on to win the nomination.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He chickened out in the face of bullshit.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)1) I am not going to base my support out of fear of media character assassination. Instead I will call that crap out when I see it.
2) He is energetic and seems pretty on the ball. I vote on the issues not on an age group. Once you get past 60 or so things can go wrong with anyone's health. I have to trust him to have a good Veep candidate on the hook to follow up with his vision. Maybe Martin O'Malley?
3) Bernie actually has better coattails in some of the swing states and has a potential to be a transformative figure in American politics. His vision is a radical change the same way that FDR's vision was. He could be the figure that De-Reaganizes the country by bringing in converts back to the Democratic party for bread and butter issues and he would be good for revealing how the GOP is screwing people over. He doesn't have Hillary's negatives in some of the swing states either.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)You need that kind of overwhelming effect that I just don't see possible yet. Seems that Bernie supporters have a lot more work to do.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)We do have a lot of work to do. All of us have a lot of work to do.
But the fact of the matter is that we have to be solid in our support of progressive policy no matter who is the candidate. I encourage you to start hunting and seeking the most progressive candidates running in your state and local elections too!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Like the sequester. It will take a prolonged political revolution. That is why it is so important that most Millennials are on board. They are the ones who have to live with the consequences of today's actions.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Reality is sometimes hard to deal with.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)so, I'm guessing a few years here or there is no big deal.
My guess is the Bernie will easily be able to handle the first 4 years, and he is smart enough to know whether or not he could handle another 4 years.
Bernie has worked with Republicans for years, and has even gotten some 'socialist' things added to bills. He worked with Republicans closely in Burlington, as mayor, and they still speak highly of him.
Z
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Have a nice day.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Or say? I don't get how cowardly the Democratic party has become.
MuseRider
(34,060 posts)at this point in this country we do not have time to piddle around anymore with just a little better or status quo. Other countries make big changes without all this baby step crap that we have to do here. We actually do not have to do that. We have tiptoed around everything important to our lives and our planet and played with "well maybes" and "don't make them mad" for way too long. Yes, Obama did get some very nice things done and for those I am grateful and his road was hard but we need to move beyond that not stay with that. Build on what he did don't just sit on it and that is what I am afraid will happen with Ms. Clinton. That is not denying what he has done it is using it to be even better, not an insult at all.
Bernie is not going to be a silent president. Did it start with Bush**? It used to be we heard from them quite a lot. He will not be silent he will try to sell what his vision is and in spite of the few issues I have with him those large visions are the only visions being laid out that will make those changes we need. I don't think he expects it all to happen right away but how long has it been since a legislator has truly felt afraid for their job? He is creating a movement and it seems to be fueled, and rightly so, by many many young people who are simply out of time. Bernie has said he knows there will need to be compromise but I can tell you this, he will at least start negotiations on the left side so we do not end up giving the conservatives what they want and more.