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Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 09:38 PM Aug 2012

According to Nate Silver, Romney Is Losing Ground This Week

Perhaps some kind of bounce is yet to come but we aren't seeing anything close to that so far. Obama is approaching his all time high in 538's projections. I wonder if Romney is now counting on the debates

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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According to Nate Silver, Romney Is Losing Ground This Week (Original Post) Doctor Jack Aug 2012 OP
Can't wait for the debates mojo2012 Aug 2012 #1
Willard's Debate Secret Weapon... Blue Idaho Aug 2012 #15
Obama has been slowly pulling ahead again on Intrade, too. DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #2
Or he was, until I posted that. DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #8
I think 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #29
Yes, it will be interesting to watch it during the Democratic convention DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #33
at 56 now. n/t 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #37
56.2! DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #43
lol 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #44
56.7 this am 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #52
57 now. back to the week before the convention. 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #53
Have you looked? 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #54
This is fun. DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #55
I was going to join and make some bets 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #56
Intrade is filled with republicans Doctor Jack Aug 2012 #17
I have my doubts that Intrade is filled with Republicans DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #19
InTrade was wrong about the Supreme Court's healthcare decision TroyD Aug 2012 #47
No, they were not wrong DavidDvorkin Aug 2012 #49
They were wrong about Perry Doctor Jack Aug 2012 #50
Then you should buy against them and make a mint, if "they are always wrong" grantcart Aug 2012 #34
Looks like I struck a nerve Doctor Jack Aug 2012 #39
because the "wisdom of the crowds" has been researched at the peer review macro grantcart Aug 2012 #46
Well someone needs a hug Doctor Jack Aug 2012 #48
Romney is not a good debater. Lifelong Protester Aug 2012 #3
I heard Romney is a masterdebater n/t doc03 Aug 2012 #6
I heard one of the talking heads say Nitt was a very focused debater ailsagirl Aug 2012 #12
Is the talking head basing that opinion on the debates Lifelong Protester Aug 2012 #14
It might have been Julian Epstein but I can't really say for sure ailsagirl Aug 2012 #16
willard mitt is definitely focused on Cha Aug 2012 #22
Obama not only has the truth 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #30
Nitt has a thin skin. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2012 #45
What is his track record for predicting the winner? n/t doc03 Aug 2012 #4
He was very accurate in 2008 Floyd_Gondolli Aug 2012 #5
It worries me when I keep seeing all those polls being quoted in doc03 Aug 2012 #7
When they want to make it seem close, they use the popular vote jeff47 Aug 2012 #9
If I hear about another 'dead heat' poll, I'll scream! ailsagirl Aug 2012 #25
what national or swing state polls show RMoney ahead? demwing Aug 2012 #31
He predicted 48 of 50 states correctly. Arkana Aug 2012 #27
Cool!! ailsagirl Aug 2012 #10
There hasn't been enough time, though, it seems. Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #11
I predict the smallest bounce in history. progressoid Aug 2012 #13
The RCP average right now is 1.1 points for obama Doctor Jack Aug 2012 #18
Robmehood's gonna be called on his lies by the President so bad... Amonester Aug 2012 #20
Good to hear. elleng Aug 2012 #21
Off-Topic question davidpdx Aug 2012 #23
I think the NY Times is restricting non-subscribers to 10 articles per month, yes N/T TroyD Aug 2012 #41
Go to NYT via Google News huckleberry Aug 2012 #57
Thanks for the tip davidpdx Aug 2012 #58
Nate's model takes convention bounces into account, and penalizes if there isn't one Marsala Aug 2012 #24
I'm really glad that Nate is hewing closer to the numbers game. Arkana Aug 2012 #26
OF COURSE He's Losing Ground Iggy Aug 2012 #28
rMoney and Obama should have to debate nude. That way, SDjack Aug 2012 #32
Smart money listens to the bookies: Here's what U.K. bookies are saying about the presidential race Brother Buzz Aug 2012 #35
Nate Silver's %'s are exactly the same as the UK bookies. speedoo Aug 2012 #36
How come they don't add up to 100% like InTrade? TroyD Aug 2012 #40
Fuzzy math Brother Buzz Aug 2012 #42
Remember in 2008 how they got a convention bounce treestar Aug 2012 #38
Don't jump the gun Marsala Aug 2012 #51
Obama chance of winning 72% as of 9/1/12 in the morning thevoiceofreason Sep 2012 #59

mojo2012

(290 posts)
1. Can't wait for the debates
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:02 PM
Aug 2012

If by some slight chance, Mitt Romney is counting on the debates, he should be careful what he wishes for.
No teleprompters during a debate. Can't take Paul Ryan, Ann Romney or any other surrogate up to the podium with him. It will be tough to remember which lie or position he stood on last week, the day before, or this morning.
So, it will be quite interesting to see how he will fair. I plan to watch all of the debates

Blue Idaho

(5,049 posts)
15. Willard's Debate Secret Weapon...
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:57 PM
Aug 2012

He'll be wearing... Wait for it...

Mormon Urim and Thummim seer glasses! Yes, just like Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, Willard will be able to divine the correct debate answers with these top secret seer stones set in a lovely silver bow!

We're fucked.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
29. I think
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:49 AM
Aug 2012

Last edited Thu Aug 30, 2012, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

he was at 57% chance of winning. Then right before the convention, I think he dropped to 54. Since the convention he went up to 56 and now at 55.something.

So unless I have the wrong days, he has actually gone up from 54 pre convention to 55+ on the last day of the convention.

I am looking forward to see how it goes tomorrow, and then after our convention, then after the debates.

Up just now to 55.9 which is .3 higher than it was a little while ago.

so far, intrade doesn't show a bounce for Rmoney convention.

DavidDvorkin

(19,474 posts)
33. Yes, it will be interesting to watch it during the Democratic convention
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
Aug 2012

Interesting and heartening, I hope.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
53. 57 now. back to the week before the convention.
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:45 AM
Aug 2012

56.2 again. Will have to just go with this evenings closing point to judge it.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
56. I was going to join and make some bets
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:55 PM
Aug 2012

You have to send in your driver lic. copy, 2 utility bills. You can't use a USA bank issued credit card. They will take checks but takes 10 days to clear. Then to cash out, they charge 67.00 for a check or 20 for a money wire but with another 10 and another 20 charged by the other banks it goes through.

After all that I decided to just watch. lol Am having fun with that.

DavidDvorkin

(19,474 posts)
19. I have my doubts that Intrade is filled with Republicans
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:43 AM
Aug 2012

I do know that Intrade has a good predictive record.

TroyD

(4,551 posts)
47. InTrade was wrong about the Supreme Court's healthcare decision
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:58 PM
Aug 2012

As Nate Silver says, sometimes InTrade is guilty of playing follow the leader and just following what the popular wisdom is.

They also predicted Romney would win the Colorado primary and didn't see Santorum coming.

DavidDvorkin

(19,474 posts)
49. No, they were not wrong
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:07 PM
Aug 2012

People keep saying that, but I was watching Intrade continually, and I saw the odds that the SC would overturn the ACA drop to 50% by the time the decision was made.

I'd consider that a pretty accurate call.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
50. They were wrong about Perry
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:10 PM
Aug 2012

For awhile they had him as a shoe in to win the nomination and to become president. They also didn't see Paul Ryan becoming VP. They had Portman as the favorite. Those are some big things to get wrong.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
46. because the "wisdom of the crowds" has been researched at the peer review macro
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:55 PM
Aug 2012

economic level and found to be much more reliable than opinion polls. The fundamental reason for that is that they are putting money behind their perception and not just giving a flippant opinion to a pollster.

You can learn about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds

You can read about predictive markets here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction_market



Prediction markets are championed in James Surowiecki's 2004 book The Wisdom of Crowds, Cass Sunstein's 2006 Infotopia, and How to Measure Anything: Finding the Value of Intangibles in Business by Douglas Hubbard.[3]

The research literature is collected together in the peer reviewed The Journal of Prediction Markets, edited by Leighton Vaughan Williams and published by the University of Buckingham Press. The journal was first published in 2007, and is available online and in print.[4]

In John Brunner's 1975 science fiction story The Shockwave Rider there is a description of a prediction market that he called the Delphi Pool.

In October 2007 companies from the United States, Ireland, Austria, Germany, and Denmark formed the Prediction Market Industry Association,[5] tasked with promoting awareness, education, and validation for prediction markets.

. . .

However, Steven Gjerstad (Purdue) in his paper "Risk Aversion, Beliefs, and Prediction Market Equilibrium,"[7] has shown that prediction market prices are very close to the mean belief of market participants if the agents are risk averse and the distribution of beliefs is spread out (as with a normal distribution, for example). Justin Wolfers (Wharton) and Eric Zitzewitz (Dartmouth) have obtained similar results, and also include some analysis of prediction market data, in their paper "Interpreting Prediction Market Prices as Probabilities."[8] In practice, the prices of binary prediction markets have proven to be closely related to actual frequencies of events in the real world.[9][10]




Now you didn't hit a nerve but your comment upthread



17. Intrade is filled with republicans And they are always wrong



It is the kind of juvenile remark that you will find gets taken apart here. You didn't strike a nerve because there wasn't enough substance in your comment or your analysis to be taken seriously. You will find that you are entitled to your opinion at DU but if you start throwing out childishly inaccurate facts like "they are filled with Republicans" or that they "are always wrong", you will, more often than not find somebody who knows more about it than you and challenge any loosely offered data that is clearly not true. Next time you want to make a statement in an absolute fashion, like "they are always wrong" you better have some links to back up what you are talking about or be prepared to be taken apart.

BTW Intrade currently has the President at 56% http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/. After the Democratic convention expect it to go back to 58. If you think that they are 'always wrong' then empty your savings buy Romney and make a bundle.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
48. Well someone needs a hug
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 07:00 PM
Aug 2012

I wasn't aware you were so passionate about gambling. I was wrong to suggest that the people on intrade are not always correct in their predictions. They are the modern day Oracles of Olympia. And repubicans don't even know about the website. Its is 100% democrats. Getting into intrade is like entering Hogwarts. Only liberals can find the way in.

Just don't stab me, alright?

ailsagirl

(22,896 posts)
12. I heard one of the talking heads say Nitt was a very focused debater
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Aug 2012

Can't remember who. I guess I blocked it out of my mind until now.

Obama has the truth going for him. Nitt has to defend a pack of lies.

Lifelong Protester

(8,421 posts)
14. Is the talking head basing that opinion on the debates
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:56 PM
Aug 2012

in the primaries??? The guy on SNL did better than him.

Cha

(297,180 posts)
22. willard mitt is definitely focused on
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:31 AM
Aug 2012

which lie he's going to tell next.

I can't wait until Pres Obama Mopped the Floor with him and drinks his milkshake.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
30. Obama not only has the truth
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:52 AM
Aug 2012

He has integrity going for him. He has charisma going for him. Romney has none of either. I think Obama is going to make any sane person know who to vote for.

We know the repigs are not sane, so they will still vote for Mittfaced.

 

Floyd_Gondolli

(1,277 posts)
5. He was very accurate in 2008
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:25 PM
Aug 2012

But that didn't take a genius. I like his stuff. Very fact based and rational.

doc03

(35,328 posts)
7. It worries me when I keep seeing all those polls being quoted in
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:39 PM
Aug 2012

the media that show it a dead heat or Romney ahead. I guess it is to their best interest to make it a horse race
for ratings. At least I hope that is what is happening.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
9. When they want to make it seem close, they use the popular vote
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:47 PM
Aug 2012

But as we all learned really well in 2000, we don't elect via popular vote.

90% of Utah residents voting for Romney helps the popular vote. But it wins the same 5 electoral votes as 51%.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
31. what national or swing state polls show RMoney ahead?
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:59 AM
Aug 2012

Rasmussen is the only one that does so consistently, and even Raz had Obama a point ahead yesterday

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
27. He predicted 48 of 50 states correctly.
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:42 AM
Aug 2012

Missed on Indiana and Missouri--gave Missouri narrowly to Obama and Indiana narrowly to McCain.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
11. There hasn't been enough time, though, it seems.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Aug 2012

The article seems to indicate the bounce comes in the time period after the convention and before the next party's convention. And he's not sure there's a correlation to who wins the election ultimately.

progressoid

(49,988 posts)
13. I predict the smallest bounce in history.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:51 PM
Aug 2012

I think the Repubs have a bigger enthusiasm problem than the media says we do.

Doctor Jack

(3,072 posts)
18. The RCP average right now is 1.1 points for obama
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:55 PM
Aug 2012

In 2008, McCain got to +4 or so after the convention. My biggest hope right now is that it never goes positive for Romney.

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
20. Robmehood's gonna be called on his lies by the President so bad...
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 12:47 AM
Aug 2012

that he's gonna want to chicken-out to France after the first one!

elleng

(130,876 posts)
21. Good to hear.
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 01:43 AM
Aug 2012

Not surprised, but he hasn't 'appeared' yet. Let's see tomorrow, weekend, and next week. Both parties will, I assume, be on the road then, REALLY campaigning.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
23. Off-Topic question
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 06:30 AM
Aug 2012

Sorry for asking....

Does anyone know if the NY Times has been enforcing the rule that you can only go to the website 10X a month and does that apply to NS's blog?

Marsala

(2,090 posts)
24. Nate's model takes convention bounces into account, and penalizes if there isn't one
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 06:52 AM
Aug 2012

So any bounce Romney gets will have its effect on Romney's winning percentage blunted.

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
26. I'm really glad that Nate is hewing closer to the numbers game.
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:41 AM
Aug 2012

He's incredibly good at it.

What he sucks at, however, is offering his political opinion. I don't want him to become the 2012 version of Chuck Todd--numbers wizard turned toady pundit.

 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
28. OF COURSE He's Losing Ground
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:46 AM
Aug 2012

David Brooks and other pro-GOP bobbleheads have been saying the past few weeks, "well, the voters
are just now starting to pay attention to the election/candidates..."

right.. and as they see and hear Rmoney, they don't like it.

why? Obv because he's an uber-wealthy giant-ass phony of the worst sort. he and his princess wife are
desperately attempting to sell themselves as "normal" people.. "just like you guys".

what a Load. the people just starting to pay attention are not buying it.

this election reminds me of 1996-- when the GOP put up the BORING, hapless Bob Dole as their
pathetic candidate. the rest is history; he got his ass kicked by Clinton.

SDjack

(1,448 posts)
32. rMoney and Obama should have to debate nude. That way,
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:06 AM
Aug 2012

rMoney can't wear the secret radio receiver that Bush used in his debates. Rove was on the transmitter, giving Bush the "answers".

Brother Buzz

(36,420 posts)
35. Smart money listens to the bookies: Here's what U.K. bookies are saying about the presidential race
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:18 PM
Aug 2012
It's illegal to wager on elections in the U.S. -- but in Great Britain, anything goes. Here's what U.K. bookies are saying about the presidential race.

Do you think you know who'll win? The U.K. bookies now heavily favor Obama: He's quoted at 2/5, compared with 15/8 for Romney. Put another way, they currently give Obama a roughly 70% chance of winning, against 35% for Romney. (Those odds have moved sharply towards Obama in recent weeks, following Romney's missteps, although the polls in the U.S. don't reflect that.)


http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/strategies/romney-vs-obama-the-oddsmakers-weigh-in-1344372024237/

speedoo

(11,229 posts)
36. Nate Silver's %'s are exactly the same as the UK bookies.
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:11 PM
Aug 2012

70% Obama.

I guess that's good news, but we still have a long way to go.

TroyD

(4,551 posts)
40. How come they don't add up to 100% like InTrade?
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:32 PM
Aug 2012
they currently give Obama a roughly 70% chance of winning, against 35% for Romney.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
38. Remember in 2008 how they got a convention bounce
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:26 PM
Aug 2012

Due to the Failin' excitement. They were ahead in the polls for awhile.

This time they can't even do that.

Marsala

(2,090 posts)
51. Don't jump the gun
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:07 PM
Aug 2012

In 2008, the bump wasn't visible until after the convention ended, and it brought two weeks of terror for us.

thevoiceofreason

(3,440 posts)
59. Obama chance of winning 72% as of 9/1/12 in the morning
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 10:40 AM
Sep 2012

Nate now has it at the highest it has been in weeks - up 3.6% since 8/24.

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