Truthfully, do you think Paul Ryan swayed the thinking of the low information

[Ninga]

undecided voter?? I think it might have given the GOP a boost.

I think his speech has thrown a monkey wrench into the Obama strategy of how to run the rest of campaign.

I think it doesn't matter that it was filled with lie after lie....he delivered it very well and has put Team Obama in a defensive pickle....because you always want to play offense not defense.

Now what Ollie???

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

1. I seriously doubt

that the low info voter watches veep nominee convention speeches

[RKP5637]

2. But they well might get sound bites of it from their favorite RW media source. n/t

[davidn3600]

11. Most of those type of voters probably are not even paying much attention yet

Vast majority of Americans are not political junkies. They gloss over the news and will see highlights but wont pay much attention to this election until October and debate time.

Also why the polls dont seem to be moving much in either direction. A lot of people seem turned off to this and not really excited about either candidate.

[cilla4progress]

3. Lawrence O'Donnell, whose political instincts I respect,

agrees with you.

The Obama campaign has to come out IMMEDIATELY swinging - with platitudes; calling out Ryan's lies; simple one-line zingers. I think he's capable of it.

Let's see what the Dem convention brings. I've seen Obama do this before. I'm glad we're going last. I'm betting that our Pres. and Veep can bring it, but it won't be without a fight!

[Ninga]

4. I am afraid of all the money they have and the ability to run ads 24/7.

[Yavin4]

12. The Same O'Donnell Political Instincts that said that Tim Pawlenty would be the nominee

and later said that Pawlenty would be the VP choice? You're trusting those political instincts?

[cilla4progress]

18. Point taken!

I didn't say perfect!

I hope he's wrong here, too!

[Cha]

26. Yeah, LO'D is Good but

he's not perfect as in no one is. We'll see. I think the O Team will make a Big Ad of Lyin' Ryan's LIES and refute every damn one of them,

BOOMERANG BACK IN HIS SMIRKED UP PINNOCHIO INFESTED FACE.

[nenagh]

5. I agree...Lawrence O'Donnell , said the speech was so well crafted..

With nearly legal precision..it will be very hard to refute in a few words..

[yeswecanandwedid]

13. Yep

If you listen to his plant closing claim, it's very well crafted to deceive while still being facually accurate. It's all about the wording used. Sneaky bastards.

[Mponti]

6. It's a post-truth world....lies dont matter....

Impressions matter.....and Ryan hit it out of the park. I hope team Obama has a strategy to handle these liars. They're winning on Medicare big time. I have no idea how they can beat lying

[Floyd_Gondolli]

9. I'm pretty sure their underwear is still clean tonight

They're not known for hysteria and hand wringing in Chicago.

[Cha]

27. +1

[cilla4progress]

15. Such a good point you make!

Truth doesn't matter any more; only impressions.

People just decide who they want to be "seen" with, like accessories! Ryan has youth, energy, newness on his side. I do think Obama and Biden can take him on with the image thing. It will take teamwork to counteract the lies and get out the message.

[LiberalFighter]

7. Low information undecided voters?

How much will stick with them?
How much will they understand?
How much will they believe?
How many will vote?

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Liberals have a history of overthinking these things...

Most people didn't watch the speech. Most people won't be convinced because of it. But let's be honest, a great deal of liberals have to worry about something ... and it's not about being overconfident. They're so under confident in everything and anything that you have to pry 'em off the ceiling sometimes. I remember Rachel Maddow continually telling us to talk her down from the ledge because she was convinced McCain would somehow win in 2008.

I don't know why people here at DU feel they know more about campaigning and winning elections than Obama. It's something I could never figure out. So many people giving campaign advice as if they've ever successfully run a presidential campaign.

No offense, and I'm not just targeting you, but don't armchair quarterback this thing.

[Cha]

28. I liked what you wrote and then

I glanced up to see who wrote it..

[K8-EEE]

30. I agree -- Ryan's lies won't stand.

I think the whole GOP convention SUCKED! Will really be surprised if there is any bounce for it, except in the President's direction.

[grantcart]

35. I agree plus

1) Only the committed bothered to watch.

2) More likely that the uncomitted will be swayed by TV ads

3) Romney will undo this again and again

4) Debates

and

this is the most important

5) Ryan pissed off a whole lot of people. First all of us. Many of us finding some way to send in a little more money. Secondly the news media who is going to get tired of always having to be put on the defensive because they end up reporting lies. It will take a toll.

[Arkana]

41. I didn't watch it and I can say with almost absolute certainty that no one else in my town

of about 1K people watched it either.

No one cares. They've all got their own shit to do--and most of the people here have made up their minds long before this anyway.

[yeswecanandwedid]

10. Maybe.

But only if they were watching. And why would they be watching when there are shows like Big Brother on the DVR they have to catch up on. I don't think it will do much.

[Grammy23]

14. He was preaching to the choir tonight

The low information voters will probably make up their minds from sound bites that appeal to them. Simple and to the point. I am not inclined to think they would have bothered to watch the long program tonight with one speaker after another. It takes a real political junkie to watch it all....and yes, I confess I watched every minute of it and still have commentary on (MSNBC). Ryan was simply shoring up the base, giving the convention attendees something to chew on and cheer about. And he certainly accomplished that. I did note a comment on FB by my Repub daughter-in-law.....saying she LOVED his speech. I resisted the urge to write something snarky since I am trying not to start a flame war with family.

Next week should be fun and I hope they come straight out of the shoot with as much piss and vinegar as the law allows! Guns blazing and firing back at those jack asses for every lie and distortion delivered this week. For all the angst I have suffered this week, I am looking forward to doing some cheering of my own.

[cilla4progress]

16. I'm with you on all your points!

It will be interesting to see if commentators who think Ryan scored big tonight are borne out! I'm counting on Obama and Joe to take these guys on full throttle1

PS I have FB in-law issues too! I decided to go more low-key there...probably not the best place to spout, esp. if it is harmful to relationships. DU, on the other hand: golden! See ya!

[Grammy23]

23. Part of the reason I post here

Is to have a safe place to express my opinions and to have a chance to "meet up" with like minded folks. Can't do that on FB. I have too many inlaws and other family members who would take offense and I am not talking about distant cousins....these are CLOSE family members. I am just grateful for a place like DU where I can vent and let off some steam after a night like tonight. I thought I would blow a gasket at the lies and distortions I kept hearing. And then those roars from the audience, clearly showing their approval, was enough to send me into orbit.

Writing here and reading other comments really does help. Thanks guys for your humor and especially for links to helpful information and FACTS......something the Repubs seem to lack.

[yeswecanandwedid]

17. Amen! Piss and vinegar!! Nt

[Grammy23]

24. I'm dead serious, too.

Whatever it takes....no more Mr. Nice Guy. I think the Democrats need to get past all this "playing nice" crap. Obama has been patient and too forgiving with the Repubs. It is time for the nice guy stuff to end and the tough guy to emerge. And Joe can come out swinging, too. If they play namby pamby, we're toast. They have got to hit back at the lies and hit hard. I am ready for this fight and will pop the corn and pop the cork. Bring 'em on. We're ready for a little reality check.

[WallaceRitchie]

20. Liar Liar (Image)

[IMG][/IMG]

[sadbear]

21. Let's wait for the tv ratings to come out.

I doubt that many people actually saw the speech. Especially that many low information voters. There was AGT and a Cowboys game on at the same time.

[Heather MC]

22. Yes I think he did!

I think he did because he was very careful about making his policies sound like a benefit. I was listening to him and thinking wow he is not unlikable. Sarah Palin was snarky and hard to like. This guy sounded like he can talk a nun out of her vows of chasity. he has a silver tongue. and most people don't listen to the words so much as the rythme and he has a very soothing trusting sounding voice.

I think he won some people I do, but I think those people he got tonight are not locked in
they are still up for grabs. And I don't think he did enough to capture the Ron Paulites back

[Grammy23]

25. If they get a load of how many lies he told them----

they might not be so in love with him. It is the job of the Democrats to start refuting all that crap ASAP. Like tomorrow morning or tonight, if possible. Then next week at the Convention they need to present more REALITY CHECKS to help them know the truth. The FACTS are on our side and it is the job of the President and his re-election team to get the word out. NO long winded speeches or wordy fact sheets. These people need something simple and to the point. And a few real life scenarios might help bring home the point, too.

For example: How many elderly people go into a nursing home on Medicare (with no long term care) and then get switched over to Medicaid so they can remain in the nursing home? More than you'd think. My mother would have been one of those people had she lived long enough. She had Medicare and BCBS supplemental (from her former employer, the VA) but no long term care. She was entitled to about 20 days using her Medicare and then she would be eligible to get Medicaid so she could continue to be in the nursing home (after living with me for three years). She died two days after she went to the nursing home and so she never went on Medicaid. But if the Medicaid was NOT available (and wouldn't be if Ryan has his way), we would have had to bring her back home to live with us, even though we were totally exhausted and burned out from caring for her for three years. (She had alzheimer's.)

Our story is not unusual and more people need to know that if Paul Ryan gets to call the shots on this, a lot of people are going to be affected by his policies. Do the research and see how many people currently in nursing homes are there with MediCAID. And no they are not all bums. My mother worked for many years as a registered nurse and paid INTO the system. She was not a leech. What he proposes is a crime and every senior citizen in this country (and their children) need to know the REAL consequences of his plans. And this does not even begin to tell the story of about the number of children and disabled people who rely on Medicaid. He has promised to make drastic cuts starting right after they take office. So his plans could start affecting the American people NEXT YEAR.

[patrice]

29. I want to think of a simpler way to tell them of the LIES about DEFICITS & how Romney "Built it":

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829

Matt Taibi's article in the Rolling Stone if FULL of specific info that shows what a lot of lies all of this is, but here's just one tidbit:

Thanks to the tax deduction, in other words, the government actually incentivizes the kind of leverage-based takeovers that Romney built his fortune on. Romney the businessman built his career on two things that Romney the candidate decries: massive debt and dumb federal giveaways. "I don't know what Romney would be doing but for debt and its tax-advantaged position in the tax code," says a prominent Wall Street lawyer, "but he wouldn't be fabulously wealthy."

[mojo2012]

36. Amen

If not for Medicare, and eventually Medicaid, my sisters and & I would have been "broke" before we retired if Ryan (& Romney) were in office. Real stories like this have to be pointed out so Romney/Ryan supporters realize people over "55" WILL BE affected. They want people to believe that people on Medicaid and Welfare are just lazy, young, or non-white, not elderly, children, and the disabled.

I do believe and agree those who don't bother to get the facts and plan to vote for Romney/Ryan probably didn't watch his speech were going to vote for them anyway. I do think they get their information from ads or are influenced by word of mouth. Perhaps, they will get over confident or complacent and don't vote. But you could say the same for Obama/Biden supporters.

This is SO important this time to vote. I'm hoping old school Republicans are turned off by what their party has morphed into. It's not the same party they use to know. The "new" party feels no guilt in lying and playing dirty and it perpetuates and ignites those who feel they need some kind of cause. But I am very much hoping that some Republicans are embarrassed enough to give voting this Republican ticket some pause. Good for the FOX reporter who was willing to write about the many falsehoods in Ryan's speech. There may be hope yet.

[Cha]

31. "Obama jabs Romney camp on truthfulness"

snip..

"Speaking to an outdoor crowd of 7,500 in downtown Charlottesville, Obama said Romney and his campaign have not told the truth in TV ads accusing the president of ending the work requirement in landmark welfare reform legislation that was passed in the 1990s.
“Somebody was challenging one of their ads,” Obama said. “They just they made it up about work and welfare. And every outlet said this was just not true. They were asked about it, and a campaign person said, we won’t have the fact checkers dictate our campaign plan. We will not let the truth get in the way.”

More..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/08/29/obama-jabs-romney-camp-on-truthfulness/

[jonthebru]

32. No.

People who are going to vote Republican are already going to do that. Neither selecting him as the VP candidate or this speech changes that dynamic. Add the blatant restructuring of reality, that is the lies, it could hurt.

Lets hope so because I am no expert and constantly scratch my balding head over the stupidity of the American voter.
Voter suppression, if it succeeds, will be what wins it for the fascist right wing corporatists.

[silvershadow]

33. No. They were already there. Ryan didn't sway anyone he needed to, and has solidified their

position. Now what? Hopefully the media is all over them for the next few weeks. Just saw where CNN received hundreds of emails after his ridiculous speech. One can hope.

[scheming daemons]

34. the "low information voter" wasnt watching

They'll get their impressions from the reviews of the speech.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. I agree...

There's a reason why they're low information voters. It will depend on what Fox News and others say about it. And interestingly, there's a link to a Fox News piece on the board that has them calling out Ryan on his lies. Is Fox News "in the tank" for Obama?!

[Arkana]

42. Basically.

Low info voters don't watch the events--they watch how the events are reported on.

And the vast majority of the reporting (discounting Fox, of course) was negative. That it was filled with lies and half-truths.

[brooklynite]

38. Four years ago, everyone was blown away by Sarah Palin's speech...

...It's still going to be Mitt Romney at the top of the ticket.

[Jennicut]

39. Liberals hated it, conservatives loved it but the rest of the country

didn't even watch it. I think Palin got more mileage out of her speech because she had a more lively personality and because she was almost cartoonish. It was something that was word of mouth and a lot more people saw replays of her speech on youtube. Ryan just does not have the kind of personality. I didn't see a huge buzz last night about it like I did with Palin. Ryan is a competent speaker but he did not exactly light the world on fire. I thought Condi and Susana Martinez gave better speeches, even though they filled them with lies and crap.

[progressivebydesign]

44. In the end the thing that matters is what the media says about it.. and it's not good. n/t

[WI_DEM]

40. probably some and we'll have to work on it next week.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Low info voters have already made up their mind. And Lyin' Ryan's speech won't sway the undecideds.

I doubt a lot of undecideds could sit through that convention, and that speech. And you know they've heard those lies before and have either checked them out for themselves, or decided they were already false or true.

The Romney/Lyin' ticket forgets that people, even low info ones, do have the internet. And when you have a speech like that, the next day the internet and the media is either going to be fawning all over the guy, or pointing out the lies. So instead of getting fabulous soundbites today, and "hear! hear" we're seeing reports of his lies, across the board. The low info voters were already swayed. They did not wait to hear him or Romney speak to decide. The folks that are undecided at this point, are RARELY low info voters, they are usually people that fancy themselves to be HIGH info voters.. and they're taking time and gathering info. So today's panning of Lyin' Ryan's speech, is going to sway them the other way.