2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAn Explanation of What Bernie Sanders Staffers Actually Did and Why It Matters
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The brouhaha over this little fiasco has been intense, and made worse by the fact that only a few thousand people in the United States understand anything about the voter tools involved. Few journaliststo say nothing of armchair activistshave enough campaign and field management experience to truly understand what happened. That ignorance has led to wild accusations and silly reporting from all sides, whether from conspiratorially-minded Sanders supporters or schadenfreude-filled Republicans.
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Even without being to export, however, merely seeing the topline numbers of, say, how many voters the Clinton campaign had managed to bank as strong yes votes would be a valuable piece of oppo. While its not the dramatic problem that a data export would have been, its undeniable that the Sanders campaign gleaned valuable information from the toplines alone. Its also quite clear that most of the statements the Sanders campaign made as the story progressedfrom the claim that the staffers only did it to prove the security breach, or that only one staffer had accesswere simply not true. Its just not clear at this point whether the campaigns comms people knew the truth and lied, or whether they were not being told the whole truth by the people on the data team who were still making up stories and excuses to cover their tracks. I suspect the latter.
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This doesnt mean that Wasserman-Schultz hasnt, in David Axelrods words, been putting her thumb on the scale on behalf of the Clinton campaign. She clearly has been, judging from the intentionally obfuscated debate schedule and from her demeanor and reaction to this recent controversy. The Democratic Party would have been wiser to bring the campaigns together privately and resolve the matter internally. Instead, Wasserman-Schultz chose to take it public to attempt to embarrass the Sanders campaign, and merely managed to embarrass herself and the Partys data security vulnerabilities in the process.
Still, the Sanders camps reactions have been laughable. It was their team that unethically breached Clintons data. It was their comms people who spoke falsely about what happened. The Sanders campaign wasnt honeypotted into doing ittheir people did it of their own accord. NGPVAN isnt set up to benefit Clinton at Sanders expenseand if the violation by the campaigns had been reversed, Sanders supporters would have been claiming a conspiracy from sunrise to sundown. Whats very clear is that the Clinton camp did nothing wrong in any of this. Sanders campaign operatives did, and then Wasserman-Schultz compounded it by overreacting. And in the end, the right thing ended up happening: the lead staffer in question was fired, and the campaign got its data access back.
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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_12/an_explanation_of_what_bernie059035.php
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Pretty decent analysis, worth reading in it's entirety before passing judgement.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Time to put some money in the jar.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Response to Dem2 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Matariki
(18,775 posts)you might not want to keep copying and pasting the same post
artislife
(9,497 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)How is this spin? Did you read the article or assume based on the headline?
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)She does look pretty hideous to me now.
I literally cringe when I see her on TV. Not her looks, mind you, her demeanor which just makes her accent all the more grating.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)Which means, you gotta go ...
Gone ...
That wasn't very nice.
A little neutral analysis and ... really?
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)...so I assume I am toast. I don't even recall interacting with said poster.
Oh, well.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Maybe just a flame out???
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)It's important also to ask what is being asked in the article. But I don't recall any lies from the staff, or did I miss something? I understood this to be a test in order to determine whether the firewall had a reciprocal situation from the other side. I suspend judgment on all of this until we know the truth, or supposed truth. I don't see any clandestine intent anywhere except where everyone can see.
ismnotwasm
(41,968 posts)Jarqui
(10,122 posts)Really? Has that been established?
Which campaign got Sanders data last October and before? Don't think we've got to the bottom of that yet. I'd like to see those data audit reports for that activity and under the hood before giving them a pass.
I do not think DWS is 100% at fault for the Democratic Nepotism for Clinton. It takes two and the Clinton campaign or Hillary has worked to corrupt that entity to excessive, over-the-top bias against the Sanders campaign.
The Clinton campaign howling over the data breach was so excessive yesterday that to me it went beyond overstatement to flat out deception. Saw it in 2008. Ditto.
If the Clinton campaign is so innocent and accurate here, why aren't they in court nailing the data thief and by doing so, effectively ending the primary? Because they've been so completely full of shit in this fiasco, it would be too risky and embarrassing for them to get pummeled by a judge.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)Which campaign got Sanders data last October and before? Don't think we've got to the bottom of that yet. I'd like to see those data audit reports for that activity and under the hood before giving them a pass.
The article can only speak to the incident in question. It would be absurd to litigate prior issues, that would show bias on the part of the writer.
I do not think DWS is 100% at fault for the Democratic Nepotism for Clinton. It takes two and the Clinton campaign or Hillary has worked to corrupt that entity to excessive, over-the-top bias against the Sanders campaign.
Clearly DWS is tilted toward HRC as noted in the article. If there's evidence that HRC is pulling DWS' strings, I think we'd all like to see it.
The Clinton campaign howling over the data breach was so excessive yesterday that to me it went beyond overstatement to flat out deception. Saw it in 2008. Ditto.
It seems both sides were howling quite loudly yesterday.
If the Clinton campaign is so innocent and accurate here, why aren't they in court nailing the data thief and by doing so, effectively ending the primary? Because they've been so completely full of shit in this fiasco, it would be too risky and embarrassing for them to get pummeled by a judge.
He was fired. Normally this would have been handled behind the scenes as it was previously, and probably would have been in this case if it wasn't for that idiot, DWS. DWS did Clinton NO favors by making this issue public.
Jarqui
(10,122 posts)I don't think anyone asked that the writer "litigate" the issues.
In the campaign's first press conference on this and in the fired employee's first interview with CNN and since, prior incidents and a claim of data lost to another campaign has been raised. What would be absurd is for the media to overlook that.
When one considers what the campaign did this time, I think it is only fair to consider the context of their actions: that this was not the first time their data had been exposed and in at least one case, they feel that because of an exposure like this, their data was lost to another campaign.
That is a pretty darn good motive to get proof of the scope of the security breach. I don;t think it's unfair to expect the media to provide some reference to the past problems as a frame of reference for their recent actions.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)"If the Clinton campaign is so innocent and accurate here, why aren't they in court nailing the data thief and by doing so, effectively ending the primary?"
Pretty much.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)Win or lose in court, the Democrats would most likely lose in the court of public opinion. They did the right thing in restoring what was only a temporary shut-off anyway.
It was about the point that it ended as quick as it started.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)that the Clinton campaign and the DNC rather need to spend winning elections.
Were they really to expect the perpetrator of this offense to actually sue them?
Dem2
(8,166 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"Even without being to export, however, merely seeing the topline numbers of, say, how many voters the Clinton campaign had managed to bank as strong yes votes would be a valuable piece of oppo. While its not the dramatic problem that a data export would have been, its undeniable that the Sanders campaign gleaned valuable information from the toplines alone."
artislife
(9,497 posts)I just want to understand all so completely.
Also, why isn't all the party upset that this is happening. I would love to hear Martin's take on it, too. There seems to be big issues with the software, what was seen? Names, addresses, credit card info? Did anyone on the Martin or Hillary side see the breach? Why was the code written so, why wasn't it corrected and checked after the initial query made in October. (Believe as you will whether it was the same glitch or not)
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You have links for that, of course.
I have no idea about Martin's take, I am assuming he'll bring it up tonight in the debate.
The audit that brought this to light only showed one candidate's campaign staffers, Bernie's, improperly accessing data.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)The company claims it wasn't the same system, I would like a link that says otherwise, I don't work on a "belief system" (not religious)
artislife
(9,497 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Sanders. This is the one who will have the largest scars from this, now Sanders will be ask questions about the breach and it will be on the minds of voters. I would not be trying to prop up this guy.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It's a shame that there are people who seem to genuinely need to have this explained to them.
Still, the Sanders camps reactions have been laughable. It was their team that unethically breached Clintons data. It was their comms people who spoke falsely about what happened. The Sanders campaign wasnt honeypotted into doing ittheir people did it of their own accord. NGPVAN isnt set up to benefit Clinton at Sanders expenseand if the violation by the campaigns had been reversed, Sanders supporters would have been claiming a conspiracy from sunrise to sundown.
A hell of a lot of truth there. K&R
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That will receive no love or attention.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)If I wanted that, I'd have simply changed the name in the title to "Hillary Clinton" and viola! instant success.
Oh, wait...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It seems that way, huh?