Woman who supports torture and the death penalty calls for more kindness.

[Scuba]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/where-hillary-clinton-torture

In an editorial board meeting, she added that there “are very rare” circumstances when an exception to the no torturing rule would be needed, and “if they occur, there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing it.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-death-penalty_56310eb4e4b00aa54a4c48c9

Hillary Clinton Comes Out Against Abolishing The Death Penalty

What a fucking hypocrite.

[brooklynite]

1. I'm sure you've exhibited the sam hostility to President Obama?

I'd hate to think you were inconsistent.

[baldguy]

4. Of course.

Only on DU could the prevailing opinion be that after having 225 years of Old White Men in the White House, having a young (or young-ish, at least) black man in the office followed by a grandmother be seen as a lurch to the right.

[PotatoChip]

5. I caucused and voted for President Obama.

And was happy to do so.

Out of the main two 2008 D candidates, he was the more progressive choice.

[baldguy]

7. Prevailing opinion is that lately Obama is no better than a Republican.

For some people on DU, anyway.

[jalan48]

10. TPP. It's a biggie.

[PotatoChip]

19. I agree. That particular issue is/was the last straw for me.

I've been disappointed in many of the POTUS' policies for some time now, but his position on TTP, TTIP and TISA was what finally made me realize that he (and the party in general) has moved much too far to the right. The Party has become completely captured by corporate and monied interests. We need real change

I've been a loyal D from the first vote I cast at age 18, but can no longer condone the D establishment's betrayal of us, their constituency. I suspect that I am not the only Sanders Dem who feels this way. I'm hoping that Bernie's movement can pull the party back to it's progressive roots.

[Betty Karlson]

50. TIPP - another biggie. eom

[Live and Learn]

15. What the heck does that meme have to do with Bernie? Nothing!!!

Meaningless rhetoric.

I've seen plenty of Hillary supporters that don't agree with Obama on everything too. And Hillary herself has dissed Obama plenty. So please stop with this ridiculous meme which is now bordering on spam.

[zeemike]

24. It is the rhetoric of (false) dichotomy.

You are either for him, which means you can never criticize anything he says or does, or you are against him which means you hate everything he says or does.

It is amazing how well that is working after the neo cons used it against us in the last few decades.

[Skittles]

73. I am completely fed up with the swooner mentality

swooners SUCK no matter who they are swooning for

they sound RIDICULOUS

[zeemike]

75. It's kind of scary to me.

I have visions in my head of the adoration of Chairman Mao or Kim Jon Un...or Big Brother love.

But then I don'w swoon over anyone, even rock stars or movie stars...it ain't natural.

[Skittles]

77. THANK YOU

no it is NOT natural but it seems to be happening more and more

[rhett o rick]

53. He certainly appointed enough of them and seems to agree with them on a lot of issues. nm

[cui bono]

72. He is a moderate Republican.

He's told us that himself.

.

[cui bono]

103. Hey bald guy... if you peek in here, here's a response to you:

that's the point. That it's not 1980 any more and both parties have shifted so far right that the GOP is now extreme right and the Dem Party is now center and has taken the place of the GOP on economic and some social issues that they left vacant when they moved over.

Definitions are not on a sliding scale. If they were people might be right to call Obama liberal, but they are not and he's a centrist. So what if he was talking about economic policy? What difference does that make? Do you really think that doesn't affect someone's overall position/definition/whatever? So you are just going to cherry pick what you want to use as criteria for determining where someone stands on the political spectrum?

That's not how things work. You have to take into consideration all of it. And if he is akin to a moderate Republican of the 80's then so be it. Not my fault. There aren't really any moderate Republicans left in the GOP, they are now in the Dem Party and I ain't gonna vote for another one.

This is yet again an attempt to separate social and economic issues and pretend that economic issues don't matter so that Third Wayers can justify and rationalize their support for two corporate politicians who have not and will not fight TPTB and really try to change things so that the government works for people and not the corporations.

I TOTALLY agree with you about pit bulls though. You might learn a little something from them about manners and sweetness.

[malthaussen]

97. The man said so himself.

Do you think he was lying?

-- Mal

[CorporatistNation]

8. The Policies of The Candidate Are The Issue, NOT The Color of Their Skin Or Their Gender

The gender race issue in the "marketing" of a candidate is merely a locus for PROPAGANDA to engender support from people looking for a simple unifying reason to support said candidate irrespective of that candidates record of service!

To support a character of any gender/race who is incompetent, narcissistic, uses poor judgement principally because of political self interest on multiple occasions, is owned by Corporate America, The Oligarchy and Wall Street is on its face INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

Such behavior demonstrates a pathological level of "Group Think" predicated on an epidemic of Cognitive Dissonance.

Just because a candidate is a woman does not indicate that said candidate will have any more empathy for the problems of a nation and its citizens than that older white haired guy who has a long history of doing what he says he is going to do.

[roguevalley]

11. falling back on color and gender when you have no argument against torture WHICH IS A WAR CRIME

is what they do. It doesn't matter that torture doesn't work but what it does reveal is a sickness in the person's soul who does it. Cheney believes in torture too. Hillary does too. If Cheney is a fucker for that then you do the math. It isn't right for one and wrong for another. How many ISIS do we want to have?

[JEB]

13. Torture is absolutely a war crime.

When we cheapen the lives of others we cheapen our own lives.

[Enthusiast]

38. Plus a bazillion!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Broward]

27. Would a President Fiorina be a lurch to the right?

How about President Palin or President Carson?

[Scuba]

36. Tu Quoque argument equals FAIL!!

[AlbertCat]

30. black man in the office followed by a grandmother

What do these traits have to do with who makes the best president?

[catnhatnh]

33. Yeah

Because in the real world the black man and grandmother would have to be liberals because there are no conservative women or blacks, right?

[Hoppy]

35. If the goal is a woman in the White House, lets go for Sarah Palin.

It ain't about old white men or young black men. Its about the quality of the candidate.

I agree, Hillary will control Wall Street. Alls she has to say is, "Cut it out." But I can't forgive her vote on the Iraq war.

[baldguy]

94. Because Hillary Clinton is exactly like Sarah Palin.

[Hoppy]

98. The point is that valuing a candidate based on sex, race or religion is not getting us anywhere.

The candidates' positions or likely positions on issues and history of voting (where applicable) are what should matter.

In those criteria, Hillary sucks, compared to Bernie or Elizabeth.

[rhett o rick]

17. Three minutes to get the first reply. But you did't mention that you support HRC's stand

on the death penalty. And some try to say she is progressive. Supporting the death penalty helps her promote that tough image that some seem to value over everything else.

[Enthusiast]

39. Tough on crime image. Tough on terrorists image. What else would you want?

[tazkcmo]

82. Values over evrything else

Including foreign brown people and American military personnel.

[AlbertCat]

29. Who's Sam?

and what is special about his hostility?


BTW, there's no excuse for torture.... not even rare ones. It's useless.

[blackspade]

96. So no well reasoned rebuttal?

Instead you drag Obama into Clinton's hole that she dug for herself?
Typical.....

[hack89]

2. I hate the primaries - they bring out the absolute worst of DU.

and that goes for all sides.

[roguevalley]

12. pointing out her murderous tendencies are the worst?

[Enthusiast]

40. We would rather you didn't mention it.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[treestar]

52. murderous tendencies?

GCP has gone insane. Is the Vince Foster accusation far behind?

[SCantiGOP]

80. Beat me to it, treestar

Anyone who can use a term like "murderous tendencies" to refer to the leading Democratic candidate loses all credibility.
Thank goodness for the Ignore button.

[murielm99]

84. The trouble is,

if I said similar things about their st. bernie, I would be alert-stalked for weeks.

The name calling by the bernistas is out of control.

[Scuba]

89. If you said similar things about Bernie, you'd have no historical record to back them up.

Sadly, Hillary's factual record on war, cluster bombs, torture, death penalty, child refugees, Robert Kagan and Henry Kissinger makes the "murderous tendencies" claim all too true.

[treestar]

99. You have any facts to back that up?

I understand she is not against the death penalty. I disagree with her on that. But that does not equal "murderous tendencies." If we were said to have that for being pro-choice, we would object.

We cannot be entirely against war without being perceived to be weak. There are times when we do have to go to war. The only war Hillary has been for was based on a mistake. You cannot call people having "murderous tendencies" for thinking a war necessary in some situations. How about this entire country during WWII?

What accusation are you making about torture, child refugees and cluster bombs?

[Scuba]

100. Sure ...

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/where-hillary-clinton-torture

In an editorial board meeting, she added that there “are very rare” circumstances when an exception to the no torturing rule would be needed, and “if they occur, there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing it.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/21/425303/-Hillary-Clinton-Voted-to-Continue-Cluster-Bombing-Civilians

Hillary Clinton voted to let our military continue to use cluster bombs in areas with concentrated civilian populations, despite the thousands of innocent children who have died or been handicapped due to picking up unexploded cluster bomblets.

This vote was cast in September 6, 2006 on an amendment to the Defense Appropriations act by Senator Dianne Feinstein.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/hillary-clinton-immigration_n_5507630.html

"We have to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay," she said. "So, we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws or will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey."

Clinton said the main reason minors are coming is to escape violence in their home countries, predominantly Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala.

Amanpour asked if that meant they should be able to remain in the United States, since it is safer.

"Well -- it may be safer but that's not the answer," Clinton replied.

[murielm99]

83. It looks like we stumbled into freeperville.

Won't it be nice when the primaries are over and the children are back in school?

[Cal33]

60. I am reminded of what used to be said many years ago: If we had a woman president there

would be no wars. Which mother would want to send children out there and have
them risk being killed?

Even then I used to think that gender played less of a role than the values of the
individual involved. I am now more certain that I was right..

[Ed Suspicious]

78. We came! we saw! he died! :satisfied laughter:

[BeanMusical]

86. What a psycho.

[840high]

87. I'll never forget that.

[Cal33]

92. It's the first time I've ever seen and heard this. Didn't know this about her. Not

very nice about her.

[rhett o rick]

18. This one is particularly bad because we are fighting to wrest the control of OUR Party from

the control of the big money. The Democratic Party is not the Party of big money and it will be a brutal fight to kick out those that are beholden to the big money. The Corporate Wing of our party is destroying our chances to defeat the Republicons.

[Cal33]

61. More than that, Corporate Power is the main cause of most of our problems in the

world today. Corporate Power IS THE PROBLEM.

[grasswire]

79. well said nt

[Dustlawyer]

85. The corporate wing of the Party wouldn't exist without votes.

For those that claim they would vote for Bernie if he had more of a chance to win do not have the courage of their convictions. Call it pragmatism, realistic, whatever, but it is still wrong. Where would we be if the Founding Fathers said they didn't want to risk their estates, their very lives, because they might not win?

Bernie has a real chance and would be a shoe in if these people would Stand up for what they profess to believe!

[darkangel218]

21. Pointing out facts is bad?

Since when?

[truebluegreen]

81. Both sides do it?

Puhleeeeese.

[Dem2]

102. No kidding

I'd expect this sort of childish character assassination on a right-wing site, but this is over the top.

[farleftlib]

3. Also believes that bombing raids which kill innocent civilians

are A-OK as well. Just don't pick on her though, that's mean.

[tecelote]

9. Yes.

From someone who believes that we can not afford Bernie's policies but we can afford regime change.

Vote for Bernie to save thousands of lives and improve millions more.

[EndElectoral]

6. Yes, Obama pointed up her torture stance in the 2008 primary as well.

[FairWinds]

14. We know now that those who torture . .

have rates of PTSD that are off the charts.

So HRC is OK with the trashing of international law, gravely hurting
"suspects", AND sentencing thousands of Americans to lifetimes of
mental illness.

Veterans For Peace

[Enthusiast]

41. Huge +1!

[840high]

88. ...+1

[SoapBox]

16. Ditto to the hypocrisy...

The more I've learned, the more disgusted I am of her and him.

I do not want them in the White House again...ever.

[darkangel218]

20. Most of civilized countries worldwide have abolished the death penalty

Here are the countries who still sentence to death and kill convicts legally:

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Ethiopia
Gambia
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya
Malaysia
Nigeria
North Korea
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Qatar
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Somalia
South Sudan
Sudan
Syria
Taiwan
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Vietnam
Yemen
Zimbabwe

And Mrs Clinton is just fine and dandy with us being part of this list.

[Enthusiast]

42. At least your kitty is nice.

[darkangel218]

44. What is that supposed to mean?

[Cal33]

63. The death penalty was abolished from our country for about 14 years, until the

Republicans insisted on having it brought back. They succeeded when some
similar-minded Democrats in Congress voted with them.

[Divernan]

22. She's A-OK with cluster-bombing civilians

In her autobiography, Living History, Senator Hillary Clinton portrays herself as an advocate for children, a defender of women and human rights. In fact, the Clintons have a long history of sacrificing the rights, even the lives of children, for political expediency. Her "kindness" does not extend to non-white, non-US citizen children.

On September 6, 2006, a Senate bill—a simple amendment to ban the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas—presented Senator Clinton with a timely opportunity to protect the lives of children throughout the world.

The cluster bomb is one of the most hated and heinous weapons in modern war, and its primary victims are children. Senator Obama voted for the amendment to ban cluster bombs. Senator Clinton, however, voted with the Republicans to kill the humanitarian bill, an amendment in accord with the Geneva Conventions, which already prohibit the use of indiscriminate weapons in populated areas.

All senators are expected to inform themselves on the issues before they cast a vote. The evidence is overwhelming. It is hard to believe that Senator Clinton was unaware of the humanitarian crisis when she voted to continue the use of cluster bombs in cities and populated areas. A U.N. weapons commission called cluster bombs “weapons of indiscriminate effect.” For years the international press reported the horrific consequences of cluster bombs on civilians. On April 10, 2003, for example, Asia Times described the carnage in Baghdad hospitals: “The absolute majority of patients are women and children, victims of shrapnel, and most of all, fragments of cluster bombs.” Reporting from a hospital in Hillah, The Mirror, a British newspaper, became graphic: “Shrapnel peppered their bodies. Blackened the skin. Smashed heads. Tore limbs. A doctor reports that ‘all the injuries you see were caused by cluster bombs. The majority of the victims were children who died because they were outside.’”

Even after wars subside, after treaties are signed, after belligerents return home, cluster bombs wreak havoc on civilian life., only to become landmines that later explode on playgrounds and farmlands. Children are drawn to cluster bomb canisters, the deadly duds that look like beer cans or toys before they explode.

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-03-18/article/29503

Or as Hill's MIC donors think of them, Clu$ter Bomb$.

[pa28]

34. Bernie Sanders was on the right side of that vote. As usual.

When I'm looking for warmth and kindness in a presidential candidate I'll vote for the one who says "no" to cluster bombs.

[peacebird]

51. Thank you, I had forgotten about that......

Cluster bomblettes look like bright colored toys to kids, maiming or killing them when they grab them to play with....

[Divernan]

55. Grammy Hillary gives the worst toys!

[Scuba]

69. That made me laugh. I must be one sick bastard.

[bread_and_roses]

95. This. I've never forgotten that. Morally depraved (n/t)

[JoePhilly]

23. Awe, did Santa leave you coal?

[Old Codger]

28. Left me some

Actually 2 pieces, one turned into a diamond called Bernie, now it really shines almost as much as he does...the other turned into something else and it is really dull, barely any shine at all, looked closer and it was a troll...

[JoePhilly]

32. If one turned into bernie ...

... then it would not shine "almost" as much as he does. They'd be one and the same.

Come on now, you can do better than that.

[artislife]

45. cannot debate, so must use fairy tale to counter.

I have seen this a lot.

[JoePhilly]

59. Hyperbole is a weak debate tactic.

I have seen this a lot.

[artislife]

71. I would suggest you look up the big word you just used.

I would give you the definition, but apparently that is not appreciated by the swarm.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. She also supporlts photo ops and platitudes. K&R

[Divernan]

56. And Black Ops: We Came, We Saw, He died! Yuck, yuck, snarf.!

[cantbeserious]

26. The Pot Calling The Kettle Black

eom

[SHRED]

31. And "regime change"

[Scruffy1]

37. This says a lot about the current state of the Democratic Party.

To my way of thinking, Bernie is the only Democrat running. The fact that Hillary has such broad support indicates that the Democrats have given up on any policies that would undermine the power of the oligarchy and are willing to settle for working on "social" issues such as race and gender. Yes, I campaigned for Obama, but I didn't expect much besides an appeasing corporate attorney, and got even less. His commitment to the status quo of the neo-liberal geopolitical scenario was the biggest disappointment. Hillary is even worse in this respect. I would consider her nomination the death of the Democratic Party.
This time of year is caucus organizing time in my state, followed by GOTV campaigns. Getting my Middle Eastern, African American, Mexican, socialist, Native american and anarchist friends to vote for her would be ridiculous. I can hear the post mortem about the failure to regain control of Congress now.The answer is always the same: "We didn't get the vote out". My answer is you have to give the people a reason to vote or you end up with 2010 again.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. Even on race and gender the "establishment"

democrats aren't really interested in real effective reform.

[CharlotteVale]

43. K&R

[madokie]

46. I about choked on that one too

I wonder how much mileage her supporters can wring out of that before they come to the realization that its simply another of her 'twisting' in the wind.

[Divernan]

47. She's kept an enemies/revenge list for DECADES!

Can't you picture her spending nights alone in the White House, while Bill is private jetting it around with his buddies to parties in glamorous locations? She'll be burning the midnight oil in the Oval Office, poring over her voluminous list of enemies, and plotting revenge. (And to potential jurors, that's HRC word, REVENGE - as documented by one of her few good friends, Linda Blair.) It will be Tricky Dick Nixon redux - she'll be roaming the halls of the White House in the dead of night, talking to the portraits of Dead Presidents. At least poor Dick had a loving wife in residence.

http://nypost.com/2014/01/13/hillary-clintons-hit-list-of-democrat-enemies/

WASHINGTON — Hillary Rodham Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign staffers kept an enemies list of fellow Democrats they believed betrayed her during the fierce primary fight against Barack Obama, a new book claims.

What Clinton insiders called the “hit list” included then-Sen. John Kerry, the late Sen. Ted Kennedy and two-time presidential hopeful John Edwards, according to excerpts of the book published online by Politico and the Hill.

The book, “HRC: State Secrets and the Rebirth of Hillary Clinton,” by Politico’s Jonathan Allen and The Hill’s Amie Parnes, is set for release Feb. 11.

The list included rankings on a 7-point scale, with 7 being the worst-magnitude traitor in the eyes of the Clinton loyalists, according to the book.

Kerry (D-Mass.), who eventually succeeded Clinton as Obama’s secretary of state, received a 7, the book says.

An unguarded look into the Clintons

Blair's documents give an unguarded look into the lives of Hillary and Bill Clinton, from Bill Clinton's days as Arkansas governor and rising Democratic star to the couple's time in the White House, warts and all.

Blair wrote in her diary that Hillary Clinton called Monica Lewinsky, the White House intern who nearly brought down her husband's presidency, a "narcissistic loony toon." Hillary Clinton defended her husband's adultery by saying it was caused, partly, because "the ugly forces started making up hateful things about them, pounding on them."

Blair also noted a 1994 conversation in which the first lady asked her for advice on "how best to preserve her general memories of the administration and of health care in particular." When asked why she wanted to keep the documents, Clinton replied, "Revenge."
Diary: Hillary kept records for 'revenge'

;

Diary: Hillary kept records for 'revenge' 02:54
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/17/politics/diane-blair-hillary-clinton-documents/index.html

[Divernan]

49. Breaking news! Hill publicly burns her enemies/revenge list at posh fundraiser.

Said any headline, never.

[Uncle Joe]

48. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Scuba.

[treestar]

54. Torture?

And you really are against protecting children from bullies? Or at least instead of agreeing on that, you have to start talking about unrelated foreign policy issues?

[Divernan]

57. The subject is practicing kindness toward children

How dare we compare one girl getting teased about asthma to thousands of children being killed and mutilated by the cluster bombs Hillary voted for, and call out Hillary as a hypocrite.

[treestar]

58. They are such entirely different issues

War and foreign policy are completely different issues. The children in a war zone have a lot worse problems than bullying. Yet you dismiss the children here who though they may not suffer from being in a war zone, are being bullied.

[Divernan]

62. I don't dismiss any suffering children

Hillary is the one who picks and chooses which children are deserving of her kindness. And guess what, it's the little girl who provides her with a photo op.

[treestar]

64. This is not a good hill to go after Hillary on

Since children and adults and combatants in a war zone are completely different things. Bernie would be ashamed of you using this.

[Divernan]

65. Those cluster bombs remain after the wars end! Duh!

And I think it's a TERRIFIC hill - None - Not a single one - of HRC's supporters have ever been able to offer a defense of her pro cluster bomb vote.

Nor has the self-proclaimed, alleged lifelong champion of women and children, ever offered a word of apology or explanation of it.

Here's the reality - and don't you dare forget it!

“Shrapnel peppered their bodies. Blackened the skin. Smashed heads. Tore limbs. A doctor reports that ‘all the injuries you see were caused by cluster bombs. The majority of the victims were children who died because they were outside.’”

Even after wars subside, after treaties are signed, after belligerents return home, cluster bombs wreak havoc on civilian life., only to become landmines that later explode on playgrounds and farmlands. Children are drawn to cluster bomb canisters, the deadly duds that look like beer cans or toys before they explode.

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-03-18/article/29503

[farleftlib]

66. The children in a war zone aren't human beings?

They don't deserve kindness? Really?

[Divernan]

67. Cause their parents can't vote for HRC. or donate $$$ to her.

[guillaumeb]

68. Perhaps HRC has a kinder method of torture that she would employ?

Non-stop Barry Manilow at any volume would persuade me to betray anyone at all.

My apologies to the Manilow supporters. Feel free to substitute another name/group.

[whereisjustice]

74. Hillary seems a bit too eager and determined to prove she is OK with violence

[sadoldgirl]

76. Her kindness to children was shown,

when she wanted to send the children from drug
torn countries back to their families.

That I will never forget!

[Nomadas]

90. Same as Obama nt

[gordyfl]

91. U.S. Bully Nation

I've heard leaders of countries refer to the U.S. as the "bully nation" - because of people like Hillary.

During the Debate Hillary said that she'd bomb countries in the Middle East, North Africa, South Asia "and beyond" when she becomes president.

Hillary = Perpetual War.

No Nobel Peace Prize for Hillary. Not yet. Not ever.

[Ferd Berfel]

101. BIpolar?

[TeddyR]

104. Lots of folks deserve the death penalty

And I have no problem with it being used when appropriate. For example, Timothy McVeigh certainly deserved the death penalty. And Hillary's support for the death penalty (assuming she does) is consistent with the majority view - http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/6275