Hillary Clinton Slams Bernie Sanders on Guns

[Purveyor]

In her strongest comments yet on the issue, Hillary Clinton tore into rival Bernie Sanders' record on gun control Friday evening in an exclusive interview with MSNBC's Chris Matthews.

"When it really mattered, Sen. Sanders voted with the gun lobby, and I voted against the gun lobby," Clinton told Matthews, referring to Sanders' vote for a bill to grant immunity to gun makers from lawsuits when their products are used in crimes.

Calling the immunity law the National Rifle Association's "most important priority in 20 years," Clinton said Sanders had shown no interest in reversing course.

"I've raised this issue before, standing next to Sen. Sanders," Clinton continued, referring to the Democratic debates. "He's refused to give a straight answer. He could, today, introduce legislation to repeal the immunity that was given to gun makers and sellers. I hope he will join me and the president in supporting real change. And that's what I'm looking for."

MORE...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-slams-bernie-sanders-guns-n493181

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Sanders voted against the Brady Bill 5 times!

<...>

Our ruling

Clinton said, "Sen. Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill."

Sanders voted against the Brady bill five times from 1991 to 1993. Sanders’ campaign manager told us in July that he did so because he was against a national waiting period and had to answer to the people of Vermont, a rural state with high gun ownership.

Overall, Sanders has a mixed record when it comes to guns. But he did indeed register five nays on the Brady bill.

We rate Clinton’s claim True.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-voted-against-brady/

[dlwickham]

9. five?

disgusting

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. What happened to Annie Oakley Clinton?

She was for guns before she was against them

[dlwickham]

26. try to stay on subject here

I know it may be difficult but we're not talking about Hillary; we're talking about Sanders voting against the Brady Bill FIVE times

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. Hillary's gun past and Bernie's gun past

[dlwickham]

31. go back and read the OP

not talking about Hillary; talking about how Sanders voted five times against a bill

[uponit7771]

30. Don't know if HRC ever claimed she was against guns but do know she's for common sense regulations

[floriduck]

14. He's only been in the Senate since 2007.

He voted on the Brady bill as a member of the HOR and represented the people in his state (as they are expected to do). He was NOT a US Senator so please make the distinction.

And why should any product maker of legal devices be held liable for criminals misusing a product? If you mixed orange juice concentrate with antifreeze instead of water, how successful would your visitors be for getting violently ill and suing the orange juice company.

Why can't people just use their heads???

[Cassiopeia]

18. I really don't understand the argument myself.

When a gun is used to kill it functions exactly as intended.

[dsc]

22. the argument is simple

a massive number of the guns that have been used in crimes come from a very small number of gun stores which the manufacturers continue to supply despite the fact they know damn well that the gun stores are selling to straw buyers who later sell the guns to criminals. Instead of stopping supplying those stores they increased the supplies to them and sold even more guns and spent untold millions trying to stop Virginia from passing a law banning the sale of more than 1 gun a month.

[uponit7771]

32. +1, they know this... people are going to minimize the damaging effect of the legislation Sanders

... voted on with the hope that whomever they're talking to is a LIV

[floriduck]

34. Your are mistaken.

A gun manufacturer and/or dealer can be held liable for selling guns to those they believe or know they intend to commit a crime with the gun. That still applies. There seems to be a mass confusion on this issue.

If a dealer or maker sells a gun and follows appropriate background checks that may apply, they are not liable for the buyers actions unless they are aware of possible criminal activity. I am not a gun nut and I think this makes perfect sense.

[dsc]

35. that is flat out, gold carat false

the sole reason this law was passed in the first place was to stop the lawsuits over just this conduct, and it has worked magnificently in that regard.

[floriduck]

41. Read it for yourself.

There are 6 exceptions to the law. And I can send you an NPR article that shows Clinton is wrong in her claim.

Sorry, you'll have to cut and paste to your browser.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42871.pdf

[Cassiopeia]

42. You should read this part.

(5) QUALIFIED CIVIL LIABILITY ACTION-

(A) IN GENERAL- The term `qualified civil liability action' means a civil action or proceeding or an administrative proceeding brought by any person against a manufacturer or seller of a qualified product, or a trade association, for damages, punitive damages, injunctive or declaratory relief, abatement, restitution, fines, or penalties, or other relief, resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse of a qualified product by the person or a third party, but shall not include--

(i) an action brought against a transferor convicted under section 924(h) of title 18, United States Code, or a comparable or identical State felony law, by a party directly harmed by the conduct of which the transferee is so convicted;

(ii) an action brought against a seller for negligent entrustment or negligence per se;

(iii) an action in which a manufacturer or seller of a qualified product knowingly violated a State or Federal statute applicable to the sale or marketing of the product, and the violation was a proximate cause of the harm for which relief is sought, including--

(I) any case in which the manufacturer or seller knowingly made any false entry in, or failed to make appropriate entry in, any record required to be kept under Federal or State law with respect to the qualified product, or aided, abetted, or conspired with any person in making any false or fictitious oral or written statement with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of a qualified product; or

(II) any case in which the manufacturer or seller aided, abetted, or conspired with any other person to sell or otherwise dispose of a qualified product, knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the actual buyer of the qualified product was prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm or ammunition under subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code;

ETA Here's section 922 and 924 for additional reference.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924

[floriduck]

43. Here's the article for good measure.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/06/446348616/fact-check-are-gun-makers-totally-free-of-liability-for-their-behavior

[Cassiopeia]

39. Yeah

The Bill
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s397/text

The roll call:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2005/s219

I see a lot of other notable Dems with a yea vote on this.

Would stopping this legislation have helped? Possibly. It might have stopped some low level dealers for a short time. Then others would pop up.

Fighting illegal firearms use like the drug war will likely have the same effect as the drug war.

Increasing profit, motivation, and crime, while doing little if anything to stem the flow of illegal weapons.

I get the point, maybe it could have done something to help. However its unlikely. If we really want to crack down on gun violence by people that own them illegally, we need make it so dangerous towards one's freedom that people stop. How do you do that? First offense of possession of an illegal firearm is life and 1 day in prison. Mandatory minimum. That would maybe slow violent criminals from using guns. Maybe.

Popping a few dealers through lawsuits won't do it. It will be like wack a mole and only the lawyers and gun manufacturers will win.

[Dawson Leery]

15. Shameful.

[tularetom]

2. How times change...

[restorefreedom]

3. what is that expression? desperate times, and something...nt

[Bjorn Against]

4. She also slammed Obama on guns...

Although when she she slammed Obama she was positioning herself as the pro-gun candidate....



Yes, that ad was created by the Clinton campaign, I guess it is OK for her to "evolve" on guns but we need to keep slamming Bernie for decade old votes.

[Autumn]

5. Sanders is in good company. She did the same thing to Obama

[dlwickham]

10. Sanders didn't vote against it five times?

[Autumn]

12. Did you miss Hillary slamming Obama on guns?

[dlwickham]

27. don't try and change the subject

I know that it's pretty much SOP with the bern bots but we're not talking about Obama nor Hillary; we're talking about Sanders voting against the Brady Bill five times

[Autumn]

33. I am sticking to the subject. The one I posted, you attempted to change it

Did you miss Hillary slamming Obama on guns? That is what I was talking about.

[winter is coming]

6. Oh, wow. I'm sure this "Bernie is a gun nut" meme will be

as ineffective as the last five times someone tried it.

[Autumn]

13. It always works!!!!!

[mikehiggins]

7. Okay, HRC voted for the Iraq war, Bernie voted against it

Must be equivalent with his votes on the gun issues, right?

Well, except for the numbers. Lots of US citizens die because of the gun lobby in this nation. The hundreds and hundreds of those killed in the middle east mostly weren't US citizens. Probably doesn't count, anymore than the trillions of dollars thrown into these endless, brutal consequences of that vote.

Rove would be proud.

[Thinkingabout]

8. Ok, Hillary said she was a Republican before she could vote, Sanders ran

On the Liberty Union ticket.

[cali]

11. So?

[uponit7771]

36. Weren't they a Libertarian group?

[stone space]

16. Yes, it is time to repeal immunity.

He could, today, introduce legislation to repeal the immunity that was given to gun makers and sellers. I hope he will join me and the president in supporting real change. And that's what I'm looking for.

[Robbins]

17. she is desperate

to have something to bash bernie on.it would mean more if she didn't run as pro-gun candiate in 2008

if clinton is so inevitable why is she bothering to even mention bernie.it's not like MSM reported on his wall street plan.It tells me
they are worried.

[winter is coming]

20. She called into Hardball tonight, pushing this meme.

Chris Hayes is covering it now.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Hillary 'Annie Oakley' Clinton? The one who bragged about hunting?

Clinton's Hunting History

WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.

"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/

Clinton touts her experience with guns

“You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl,” she said.

“You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/clinton-touts-her-experience-with-guns/

Let states & cities determine local gun laws

Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?

A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case you’re referring to is before the Supreme Court.

Q: But what do you support?

A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.

Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?

A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.

Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?

A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that they’re going to try to impose, I think doesn’t make sense.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm

[The Traveler]

21. I'm really against the idea she is advocating

I think making a manufacturer of a legal product open to liability when someone misuses that product is just a bad idea. I also think it establishes a very dangerous precedent. A business entity should not be held accountable for someone else's misdeeds.

And I think there are a whole range of better options open to us. Things I as a gun owner could definitely go for:

1) Extended background checks. And close the damn gun show loopholes!
2) A system by which medical professionals can report an individual as being of questionable ability to safely own a firearm. A well defined appeal process by which a wrongly assessed individual can redress his or her grievance.
3) Tighter controls and documentation of private gun sales.
4) One of my favorites: Require gun owners to carry insurance. Your premiums will be based on the number and kind of weapons you own. Someone with a single shot .22 rifle will pay less than someone with an AK-47.
5) How about regulating purchases of ammunition? The second amendment guarantees no right to unfettered access to ammo.
6) Mandatory gun safety training and proficiency testing. (We do it for drivers, right?)
7) Can we please do something about open carry and "stand your ground" laws? I don't WANT to live in the Wild West.

I could go on and on. Lot's of ways to make progress on the American gun problem that do not codify an inherently unjust principle: "You are accountable because of something I did with something you made, or information you gave me."

Trav

[floriduck]

45. I like your item 5, in particular.

Put serial numbers on cartridges. Tie the serial number to the seller of the bullets and require sellers to record the sequences according to buyer. That would greatly reduce straw gun and ammo sales. BTW, I own a pistol but it's been locked up for years.

[azmom]

23. So, she's anti gun this time around?

Really? She's lying. I'm sure of it.

You really cannot trust Hillary.

[uponit7771]

28. Get it girl!!! Sanders cant pass the purity test he's hold HRC up to in many categories.

... including being a politician.

[thereismore]

37. "join me" is a bit condescending. I am pro gun control, but in this vote I agree with Bernie.

There is nothing illegal about selling guns in the US as long as all regulations are followed and a gun seller cannot be held liable for something an idiot with a gun does with it.

[Fast Walker 52]

38. if this election was only about gun control, I would vote for Hillary

but there are so many other issues in which Bernie is better.

[underthematrix]

40. #ImWithHer

[Ino]

44. I'm no fan of guns or gun nuts...

but holding manufacturers liable for someone committing a crime with their product is flippin' ridiculous.

Hillary gets a FAIL for her flip-flopping on guns, her hypocrisy, and her faux outrage.

[Robbins]

47. I agree

people who legaly sell guns shouldn't be sued because someone who legaly bought guns commited crimes.

[INdemo]

46. We have discussed this before Hillary

My question to Hillary
This didn't work before so why do you think it will work now?

If this is all you got Hillary shall we just move on here?
Hillary, We could could ask the tired old question what exactly did you say to Wall St and the Big Banks when you told them to
"Cut it Out" and was this before or after you got you huge campaign contribution check?

Hillary you're scratching the surface trying to find something to "dig" your claws into and there is nothing.
Hillary you are losing Iowa and out of desperation I expect we will be hearing other BS attacking Bernie Sanders but why don't you address the issue about too Big to fail banks or the Wall St Swindle and why the CEO Goldman of Sachs
(Lloyd Blankfein ) that committed fraud and helped to lead this country into a depression,why does this man still have a Job? And why were you elbow with this guy and taking huge sums of money in speaking fees after this guy swindled us out of our pension funds and our life saving?
This happened in 2006,2007,2008. But yet you want to talk about a no vote on a gun bill of the 90's and early 2000 that had items in the bill that was not in the best interests of the American People

[MisterP]

48. who's likelier to follow the smell of a few cool millions and influence with dozens of Reps from

NRAILA?