If Bernie is the nominee, will the people excited about electing first Woman prez

[randys1]

stay home?

If Hillary is nominee, will the economically minded folks who are excited about electing Bernie stay home?

What we know is what is driving voters on the left, which makes it easier to determine what they will do, hopefully.

The GOP is gonna show up in droves no matter which candidate we select, for reasons I dont have to repeat here.

I am not saying the only reason people want to vote for Hillary is the gender deal, but it is important.

You see ALL I care about is making sure the deeply racist, Woman hating, environment destroying rightwing does NOT take the WH, so I am just curious what you all think.

[saltpoint]

1. There are strong arguments out there

for a very good blue election in November.

Traditionally Democratic voters are likely uneasy about letting someone like Ted Cruz turn the country into a theocratic hellhole.

[randys1]

2. Getting colonoscopy this month, I wanna live long enough to see Texas go Blue

It is gonna happen, that much we know for a certainty.

[saltpoint]

17. I'll send some good blue vibes down to

the Lone Star State along with sincere wishes for a good outcome on the operation.

[randys1]

20. Thanks, I am not in Texas though. But I do look forward to that day LOL

[enid602]

18. colonscopy

1. Buy a box of Depends, so you don't wake up to a surprise. I did not, and had to cut two holes in the bottom of a Hefty Bag for my legs, and pull the drawstring around my waste. Fasting all day makes you unbelievably tired, at least in my case.

2. Don't worry about getting hungry, as the solution they ask you to drink is surprisingly filling.

3. Pick a good place to eat afterwards.

[randys1]

19. Sounds like great advice, thanks

[Duckhunter935]

26. wet wipes

You can get raw down there.

[Cal33]

64. It doesn't hurt at all post-op.

[Betty Karlson]

3. GE polls are clear on the subject: Sanders has cross-over appeal, Clinton puts the WH at risk.

With Sanders' coattails, we can win back the senate, maybe even the house. With Clinton, we are at rsik of losing all three: she is despised by 14 % of the Democratic base, and her appeal to independents is not enough by far to compensate for that kind of lackluster support.

If you want a safe bet for the White House, Sanders is your man.

I'd very much like to see a woman president in my lifetime, but that woman should not be a status quo, third way, corporate shill. For similar reasons, I was not exited at all about Mrs Palin's candidacy. She may have a uterus, but she has the wrong ideas.

[randys1]

6. You didnt answer my question.

[Betty Karlson]

32. Here's what I would postulate:

Given Sanders' cross-over appeal, a few disgruntled status quo Democrats staying at home won't hurt us.

Given Clinton's negative coattails, 14 % of Democrats being turned off is a very big deal.

[randys1]

33. So you are "promoting" the theory that a Hillary nomination is bad news, OK..but

what about you and your friends or family?

[Betty Karlson]

37. I will never trust Clinton.

I may vote for her, if the alternative is the arrival of naked fascism in the USA, but I wouldn't be thrilled to do so. So any vote I can still cast for Sanders or O'Malley will be cast with vigilance and determination.

Clinton as a nominee could be a 2014 style disaster for the party: DWS has proven before how incompetent she is at selecting good candidates and winning platforms.

As for my friends and family: the boyfriend may well vote for Clinton, but no-one else I know (not even female friends) seem willing to ever do so.

[randys1]

39. Wait, are all these people who will NEVER vote for her, liberals? How can that be?

Are they unaware of the nightmare the teaparty wants to inflict on this nation?

Serious question, would love to talk to some of these people

[Betty Karlson]

41. If you start questioning their political beliefs like: "vote Democrat no matter who the candidate"

then you are as disconnected from millennials' reality as the Clinton campaign.

The issues matter more to them then the letter behind someone's name. And Clinton is seriously distrusted on a whole range of issues.

But don't worry: my parents and grandparents may still like her.

[CorporatistNation]

21. AGREE TO THE NTH DEGREE! It IS Quantifiable!

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Polls are unambiguous about this point

Bernie inspires a bigger turnout in the general, both inspired young voters voting for him and fewer repubs whose primary ideology is hating Clintons.

[randys1]

7. You didnt answer my question.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. I think I did. Turnout for Bernie will be better. nt

[randys1]

14. No, you didnt

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Okay then, the answer to both questions is yes...

... but both effects are made trivial by the relative effect of the candidates on turnout among the young.

Give people (not delegates, not superdelegates and not caucus members) an opportunity to vote, and Bernie wins.

[enid602]

5. vote!

I'm a Hillary supporter, and as I've stated before, I hereby pledge to vote for the Dem candidate. Without condition or hesitation. I will not 'stay home.' You see, it's not my first time at the rodeo. It's not like it's my first love that I'll have a lot of trouble getting over.

[randys1]

8. Great answer, vote LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!

[daleanime]

9. Because what a person is is more important....

then what they believe....

[newfie11]

11. Nope

Bernies a better choice and maybe Liz as VP.

[yeoman6987]

29. I don't think he will go with senator warren

As you saw on ABC with George S. They are beginning to make his age an issue. He will pick someone under 55. Is it right? No, but that is what he will do.

[artislife]

50. And then why not h's age? The are 6 years difference. nt

[yeoman6987]

58. She'll go with someone younger

As for first part? Not sure why H gets a pass. I guess still in her 60's maybe. I'm not sure.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. I suspect there are VERY, VERY few people on this site ...

who will stay home and/or not vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever that nominee might be, despite all the proclamations we see to the contrary.

(But maybe ... I'm just being optimistic.)

[Vattel]

13. I thinkthe worry is that people who don't want to vote for a hawk will stay home

if Clinton is nominated.

[artislife]

51. Or vote Green. nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

66. No way. Marijuana legalization is on my state ballot this time around.

I'll be voting, and so will millions of millennials. I actually think we'll have decent voter turnout this year for that reason.

[Thinkingabout]

15. This again, we are supposed to be electing Democrats on this site,

this will not change if Sanders is the nominee. On the other side if Hillary is the nominee are the Sanders supporters going to stay home.
Personally I don't stay at home in any election, if I do not vote then I don't complain.

[Uncle Joe]

16. I'm mostly wondering which direction the Independents will vote as they make up the largest

share of the electorate?

I believe a Bernie nomination will swing more Independents and a few misguided Republicans toward the Democratic Party all the way down the ticket.

On the other hand, Schultz's cynical manipulations have only served to alienate many progressives, and people that respect the concept of what democracy means, should Hillary get the nomination.

I also believe the Republicans will be even more fired up as opposition should HRC get the nomination.

Thanks for the thread, randys.

[randys1]

22. Isnt your observation a potential self fulfilling prophecy? Is all the negative

comments about DWS and DNC, all deserved by the way, helpful?

You see, if ALL you care about is keeping the horrid rightwing out of the WH, then

well, do I have to go on?

[Uncle Joe]

23. It isn't all about Schultz but to deny her impact is to deny reality as to whether it's

helpful or not, depends on whether the Democratic Party wants a repetition of this campaign season's performance by the DNC.

As I stated I believe Bernie and the Democratic Party would gain more Independents and a few Republicans down the line regardless.

Hillary's negatives developed over the past twenty+ years are too high.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. I was thinking about this ...

I believe a Bernie nomination will swing more Independents and a few misguided Republicans toward the Democratic Party all the way down the ticket.

That very well, may be true ... since Sanders and trump share some of the same followers, think of a Venn Diagram. If the choice is Sanders and Trump some Trump voters will vote for Sanders. If it was Clinton versus Trump they would vote for Trump.

But I doubt those votes would translate down ticket, as the reason(s) for voting for Sanders/against HRC do not apply down ticket.

On the other hand, Schultz's cynical manipulations have only served to alienate many progressives, and people that respect the concept of what democracy means, should Hillary get the nomination.

Really?

I also believe the Republicans will be even more fired up as opposition should HRC get the nomination.

But what about all the trump supporters that hate HRC, as much as they hate the establishment republicans?

[randys1]

27. Good analysis. This is what I am looking for.

I just thought of something.

All this anger at DNC and DWS (for the record, I am angry at them also for the same reasons, but in my case I expect political parties to act like POLITICAL PARTIES which is ALL this is)

But

Bernie is not a

or wasnt one until just recently, right?

So Bernie supporters are incensed that the political party Bernie does NOT actually belong to, is treating him kinda crappy?

Just an observation

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Somehow, I doubt there would be the same outrage ...

had DWS/the DNC cut for Bernie.

Bottom-line ... DWS did what she feels/felt is best for the Democratic Party, and the prospects for the White House and down ticket races. How we feel about her actions/inaction is largely driven by who one supports in the primary race.

[Uncle Joe]

31. They would translate down the line because if Bernie were to gain the nomination, the message

would be crystal clear to all Democrats running, that the people are much more progressive or left than the party has been.

Bernie's coat tails would be long and strong and a true transformational movement would take off.

I have little doubt that most Democrats would adjust their races accordingly and benefit as a result by focusing on massive income disparity, and the divisive string pulling by the less than 1%, along with a host of other critical issues affecting the people as a whole.

No fair minded person can argue that the Democratic Debate manipulations have been a boon for a healthy democracy; which absolutely requires a well informed electorate.

Why would anti-establishment Republican Trump supporters support an establishment Democratic Hillary?

[1StrongBlackMan]

43. I disagree ...

They would translate down the line because if Bernie were to gain the nomination, the message would be crystal clear to all Democrats running, that the people are much more progressive or left than the party has been ... I have little doubt that most Democrats would adjust their races accordingly and benefit as a result by focusing on massive income disparity, and the divisive string pulling by the less than 1%, along with a host of other critical issues affecting the people as a whole.

Did you not notice how Democratic candidates campaigned in 2012 and 2014? They ran away from President Obama and his initiatives (the ACA and gun control, being the 2 most notable issues) ... there is no reason, beyond wishful thinking, to imagine Democratic candidates will behave any differently.

No fair minded person can argue that the Democratic Debate manipulations have been a boon for democracy; which absolutely requires a well informed electorate.

Why? How has limiting the number of Democratic debates been an affront to democracy and a hinderance to a well informed electorate ... those wanting to watch the debates will watch and those not caring, won't. The millions that watched the 1st debates are the same millions that watched the second debates, and will be the same millions that watch the 3rd debates ... few of which will have their minds changed.

Why would anti-establishment Republican Trump supporters support an establishment Democratic Hillary?

They won't ... But the independent voter question is, also, why would an anti-establishment trump supporter vote for an establishment republican? They won't, either, that's why they support trump.

Also, the question becomes ... why would an establishment republican (which there are far more establishment voters, on both sides of the aisle, than anti-establishment voters ... and that includes "leaners" towards both sides) vote for the anti-establishment Bernie? ... they may hate HRC (as they do all Democrats); but, they hate anti-establishment, anyone, more.

[Uncle Joe]

47. It wasn't just the paltry number of debates but the scheduling as well, during the weekends just

before Christmas, opposite prime time NFL games in key states. The debates had progressively fewer viewers as they went along. The corporate media conglomerates then pick up on that with their propaganda and the translation to the American People that didn't see the debates is that few Americans cared about the Democratic Debates or their message, thus it feeds on itself.

Any marketing person worth their salt would schedule such events when they would most likely be viewed.

The only beneficiary from such a cynical schedule is a candidate with existing high name recognition, any other lesser known candidates and their messages are damaged as result.

Independent voters are more likely to support Bernie over Hillary.

Most of Trump's supporters and for that matter Carson's are anti-establishment Republicans, Trump is both the front runner and most dangerous candidate to our nation.

Independents make up the largest voting segment of the nation as establishment Democrats and Republicans have lost favor with the people.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. Again ...

It wasn't just the paltry number of debates but the scheduling as well, during the weekends just before Christmas, opposite prime time NFL games in key states.

This debate thing is a weak argument ... everyone that WANTS/WANTED to see the debates will/can, whenever the debates are aired.

Most of Trump's supporters and for that matter Carson's are anti-establishment Republicans, Trump is both the front runner and most dangerous candidate to our nation.

This is true ... this:

Independents make up the largest voting segment of the nation as establishment Democrats and Republicans have lost favor with the people.

Is not ... the vast majority of people, independent voters, included ... prefer the safe, i.e., establishment, choice.

[Uncle Joe]

59. Scheduling has nothing to do with it?

Tuesday's Republican presidential debate on CNN averaged 18 million viewers, making it the third-most-watched primary debate of all time.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/16/media/gop-debate-ratings/

Saturday night 2016 Democratic debate gets lowest ratings of any debate this year

About 7.85 million viewers tuned into the prime-time debate between Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley, Nielsen data showed, noticeably below all of the other Democratic and Republican debates this year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/latest-dem-debate-lowest-ratings-year-article-1.2471937

So as we both agree that most of Trump's supporters are ant-establishment Republicans, that he's the front runner and most dangerous candidate, Bernie would be the most effective counter as he is also anti-establishment, Hillary wouldn't have that advantage to weaken Trump.

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. I just don't think there are as many anti-establishment folks out there ...

they are loud; but, relatively small in numbers.

[MineralMan]

25. Why would anyone stay home?

I don't get this concept at all.

[Punkingal]

28. I can't answer for those excited about the first woman prez, but i can answer for me.

I will vote for the democratic candidate for President, whoever that may be, because like you, i do not want a racist, woman-hating, environment-destroying RW president.

I do hope that is what all Democrats will do.

[randys1]

30. I actually didnt intend to make this a "will you support the Dem candidate no matter what"

thread, but that does seem to be what it comes down to.

I keep on this theme only out of frustration, because I truly didnt realize how much anger, hatred, etc there was for the Clinton's from so called left voters.

Are they my ideal politicians?

Dear god no, I am a FAR left liberal.

Are they 2,368,789 times better than all cons alive and dead combined?

Of course, therefore why are we spending ANY energy AT ALL on the my way or the highway stuff

crazy

[djean111]

54. Why are we spending ANY energy AT ALL on this before the nominee is decided on, then?

Curiouser and curiouser.

[LWolf]

34. I want to elect a woman president

in my lifetime. HRC is not that woman.

I think it's likely that, should Bernie get the nomination, he will choose a woman as running mate. We could have the first female VP, setting up for the first woman president...the right woman.

The race, faith, gender, or sexual orientation of the nominee is not at the top, or even in the top ten, of my criteria. I'm an issues voter. I don't want a figurehead; I want a real leader.

I am more focused on achieving racial justice than the race of the nominee.

I'm more focused on maintaining, strengthening, and broadening the separation of church and state than I am in the faith of the nominee.

I'm more focused on achieving gender equality than I am in the gender of the nominee.

I don't ever stay home. I always vote. I always vote for the best candidate on my ballot, and if there is no candidate I can vote for with integrity, I write one in.

I somehow have to post this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over here at DU, every presidential election cycle.

Because, somehow, whether or not anyone "stays home" is always lobbed back and forth, getting the blame game to build steam just in case Democrats lose in the GE.

Something else I always type over and over and over:

Anyone who is worried about people staying home in the GE ought to make sure that they support and nominate a candidate who inspires people to show up. That's the responsibility of the Democratic Party and of Democratic voters. If you nominate someone who can't generate that kind of support, blame your fucking selves if things go wrong in the GE.

[randys1]

35. So if Hillary is the nominee and she loses, and I vote for her and you dont, it is MY fault?

[LWolf]

40. If

HRC is the nominee and she loses, it is the fault of the party that nominated a candidate that didn't/couldn't earn the votes.

Assuming a fair and honest election, of course.

It's not about you, nor about me. Also, I'll point out that I said that I always vote. I don't stay home.

[Fumesucker]

36. Some will but eventually most won't

The same as those of us excited about the first Jewish President.

[restorefreedom]

42. i worry about the younger people

i get a strong impression that most will vote. who they vote for is unknown, and many might vote green or a write in as their preferred candidate. but i think most will vote.

i do worry though about the younger ones. this is clearly a revolutionary, antiestablishment cycle, and if we end up with two establishment choices (bush v clinton for example), many of the younger people who have campaigned with such passion might just say "screw it, things will never change."

but as someone who visits that "other" forum, i can see it happening on both sides, so if the gop ends up wih a bush or rubio, many on that side hsve said they will stay home

it will come down to GOTV on both sides

[PowerToThePeople]

44. My vote is my vote.

If Bernie is the nominee, will the people excited about electing first Woman prez stay home?

Maybe

If Hillary is nominee, will the economically minded folks who are excited about electing Bernie stay home?

Maybe

You see ALL I care about is making sure the deeply racist, Woman hating, environment destroying rightwing does NOT take the WH, so I am just curious what you all think.

I care about improving the Nation, not minimizing how much worse it gets. I will only choose candidates I believe will improve things. I will not sign on for continued beatings.

[treestar]

45. of course not

and people don't support Hillary just for being female.

[Starry Messenger]

48. Well, our ballots are mail-in, so I can vote from home. ;)

[one_voice]

52. I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

[arcane1]

53. Some claim they will stay home if Bernie is nominated:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868804

[brooklynite]

57. And many have said they won't vote for Clinton if SHE's elected:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128079776

How about we ALL agree to support the Democratic nominee. I will.

[cascadiance]

60. So, if he has Democrat Elizabeth Warren as his running mate can we call such behavior anti-woman?

Since they won't vote for a ticket with a Democratic Party woman on it against the Republicans just because they have some unexplained hatred for Bernie Sanders either personally, or just because he isn't a registered Democrat, even if he has stances that are far more in line with traditional Democrats like FDR than so many other "Democrats" of today.

I wonder if instead of Hillary Clinton running against Bernie, if it was someone like Strom Thurmond (if he never had switched from being a Democrat to a Republican), would they still feel the same way and vote for Thurmond over Bernie JUST BECAUSE HE HAS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY LABEL on him and Bernie doesn't? Would they ignore the substance even in that situation? That just shows how low some of the logic some people have these days where it feels like the criteria of who they support isn't much more than one has in rooting for a high school football team because you are in that school, rather than measuring candidates on the substance of what they do and what they propose doing to help this country.

[arcane1]

61. Knowing their thought process (or lack thereof), they absolutely would vote for Strom.

Policy is irrelevant to far too many people here. As is principle.

[karynnj]

55. That same group greatly cares (as I think all of us do) about the Supreme Court - so I think they

would pretty strongly support Bernie over any Republican. ( Note I would sat the parallel thing if it were a Sanders group and HRC was nominee.) Democratic partisans are likely not the problem -- it is people who are less committed.

[Gothmog]

56. I will support the Democratic Nominee no matter what

I will probably focus my donations on candidates who can win in the general to try to undo the damage that Sanders would do to down ballot candidates

[MeNMyVolt]

62. I don't think the GOP will "show up in droves".

Quite the opposite actually. That party is immensely fractured.

Love you last sentence!

[randys1]

65. We saw a preview of what WILL happen if we dont all vote for the Dem just the other day

where the House voted to kill ACA and Planned Parenthood.

If you kill ACA, ins co's can charge anything they want, cancel anyone they want, use preexisting clauses and put caps on payouts.

GOP is bound and determined to kill the people in the way, whether it is with lead water in MI or by destroying access to healthcare.