HRC and her good friend Henry Kissinger

[Kelvin Mace]

I am posting this because whenever this topic came up in the past, HRC defenders brushed it off as her simply being polite to a member of the political establishment. She wrote a fawning review of his book just to be nice, and we should in no way view praise of a war criminal as unseemly.

As I said in response, her relationship went beyond the "polite" to "kindred spirits". Henry Kissinger is the only man in this country with more blood on his hands than the likes of Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and George W.

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/12/emails_expose_close_ties_between_hillary_clinton_and_accused_war_criminal_henry_kissinger/

Emails expose close ties between Hillary Clinton and accused war criminal Henry Kissinger
Salon.com

“I greatly admire the skill and aplomb with which you conduct our foreign policy,” wrote Henry Kissinger in a 2012 letter to “the Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton.” The compliment was included as a handwritten postscript added to the printed letter.

The Feb. 7 letter, which was released in a batch of emails from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, is a request that she help declassify documents from Kissinger’s time as secretary of state, which he says constitute “a unique record of a critical period in American foreign policy.”

The late journalist Christopher Hitchens devoted an entire book to detailing the war crimes overseen by Kissinger, who infamously declared “The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer.”

In “The Trial of Henry Kissinger,” Hitchens argues the former secretary of state should be tried “for war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offenses against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap and torture.”

Hitchens described Kissinger as a master of “depraved realpolitik” with “a callous indifference to human life and human rights,” who was behind U.S.-backed atrocities in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, East Timor, Chile, Bangladesh, Cyprus, Kurdish Iraq, Iran, South Africa, Angola and more.

Yes, the article points out that John Kerry also has cordial relations with Kissinger, and I will say right now that I condemn the man wholeheartedly and have no further use for him. ANYONE who treats with Kissinger on such a level is condoning war crimes.

Yes, I know other Democrats, including the current administration had dealings with him, and shame on them. I can excuse Carter, since he inherited the shambles of the loss of Vietnam along with the chaos of the surrounding region and had to deal with this ghoul in cleaning up his mess. But once his crimes became documented, treating him as anything other than a pariah unforgivable.

[randys1]

1. Did we ever settle on a tune we could all use when we are BASHING Hillary?

[RobertEarl]

2. There are so many tunes

The noise is just too much, Somebody turn it off, or we will Bern it down!

[Kelvin Mace]

3. Again, for about the 400th time

How is pointing out facts "bashing"?

What points are in dispute?

[Fawke Em]

10. He won't answer. Never does.

I can't understand how facts are bashing either, but to some they seem to be.

[randys1]

21. Can i send them your way, the Women who will need to find a safe place

for their healthcare procedures, if your insistent bashing of Hillary results in President Cruz outlawing Women's healthcare?
Will that be enough of an answer for you?


Do you have any idea what the phrase "big picture" means?

Seriously... DO YOU?

You see the reason I dont BASH either candidate is I want ONE of them to win, but I dont really believe any longer that many of you feel the same way.

I think that many of you want one candidate and only one, to win. I think some of you hate Hillary so much, and hate her supporters so much, that she cant get your vote.

That is what I think.

I wonder if I, a Bernie supporter, will be allowed to say that.

[Kelvin Mace]

36. The only way there would be a "President Cruz" is

if for HRC to be the candidate, which will galvanize the right and they will dredge up every scandal, real and imagined and go to town.

I am tired of "dynastic politics" and "choosing the lesser of two evils" and presidential candidates who are bought and paid for.

If the U.S. voters are clueless enough to to elect Cruz then we will suffer the consequences we deserve.

If HRC didn't want to alienate voters over things like hugging (literally) a war criminal, she shouldn't have hugged a war criminal. It is all about her choices, and her choices have, on the average been very poor.

[randys1]

37. Wow, you sure dismiss the suffering, just one sentence, WOW

You said

If the U.S. voters are clueless enough to to elect Cruz then we will suffer the consequences we deserve.

1. Are you a Woman who can get pregnant?

2. Are you a person of color or Gay?

[Kelvin Mace]

43. Are you a Chilean, Laotian,

Cambodian, Vietnamese, Cypriot, Black South African or some other person who has suffered due to Kissinger's atrocities?

The mass graves are home to millions of Hank's victims, which you seem to ignore.

Again, is it only American lives that matter to you?

If you take a look at the countries where gays, women and other minorities are still oppressed, you will note that a lot of them are legacies of Kissinger's handiwork .

[randys1]

50. Nice try, this has NOTHING to do with Kissinger. You dismissed the suffering of

the consequences of a GOP presidency as if it was nothing

The way you can do that is if you are likely not to be one of the victims

[Kelvin Mace]

61. It certainly DOES have to do with Kissinger

It bears directly on her judgment and who she takes advice from, and the fact that she doesn't see taking guidance and socializing with a war criminal as "wrong".

Explain to me the difference between Henry Kissinger's crimes and Dick Cheney's. Would you vote for her if she were praising Cheney?

I have already suffered through several conservative presidencies, and do not wish to suffer through another.

[Kelvin Mace]

29. I get this from the HRC crowd

and unlike many other arguments, this one usually peters out fast when I ask for them to specify which facts are incorrect.

The standard argument is always "Kissinger is a statesman, despite his crimes, and she is just being polite since that's what you have to do". Unfortunately, once I point out that her actions are "above and beyond" polite protocol (also, why would one be polite to an architect of mass murder?), the responses stop.

[zentrum]

42. Exactly.

How is pointing out her lending legitimacy to this war criminal anything but the historical fact?

[Still In Wisconsin]

47. When it comes to Madam Weathervane, if you're not kissing her ring,

you're bashing her.

[Faux pas]

4. How about 'War'?

[kath]

6. So, do you think Henry Kissinger is worth ANY praise whatsoever? is he one of your heroes, like he

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 06:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Apparently is for HRC?

How is it "bashing" to criticize her for admiring such an evil sumbitch?

as Tom Lehrer famously said " Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel peace prize.".

[randys1]

22. One of my heroes, you have sunk that low...yes, you have

I would be insulted if I respected your point of view, but that you could say that to me, solves that problem.

[JDPriestly]

25. Henry Kissinger is one of your heroes??? Are you sure?

Henry Kissinger is one of the most despicable pretensions to claim to be a human being that ever lived. He's just awful!

Did I misunderstand your post???

[randys1]

27. One Bernie supporter implies a disgusting thing and another comes along and pretends

not to understand, thus doubling down.

Disgraceful

[JonLeibowitz]

28. Yes, you did.

[JDPriestly]

30. Who was he saying was his hero? I really did not undersand that exchange.

[JonLeibowitz]

32. The "One of my heroes, you have sunk that low" means that randys1 considers it a personal affront

to accuse someone of saying Kissinger is a hero.

[randys1]

34. Thank you...

[JDPriestly]

35. Thanks. After I read your first post, I realized he wasn't serious.

Just not in the mood for jokes I guess.

I'm not always this dense. But there are moments . . . . .

[JDPriestly]

31. Sorry. I just realized you were joking. Very sorry.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. Well, I don't think Kissinger is your hero,

I am asking whether you will vote for someone who considers him a close friend and adviser?

[leftofcool]

12. No tunes, they just keep posting the same old crap and horse shit.

[morningfog]

13. I propose "Masters of War" by Bob Dylan.

[Glamrock]

51. Great song!

The very last verse:
"And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."

I always think of Darth Cheney when I hear this. Usually substitute "stand over" with "piss on"...but that's just me...

[A Simple Game]

19. We took a vote,

we will quit right after you present your defense of Hillary's friendship with Kissinger.

You are known by the company you keep.

[leftofcool]

24. Same horse shit, different day.

[Kelvin Mace]

39. Pray explain to me the difference between

having Kissinger as a close friend from having Dick Cheney as a close friend. Would you vote for her if she were writing fawning reviews of Cheney's books and consulting with him on foreign policy?

[A Simple Game]

53. Same but different? Oh, I know what you mean! Hillary and Kissinger is like

Bill and George W. Bush. Do I win?

[Betty Karlson]

63. "Would I lie to you"

That seems like a fitting tune, albeit one with different meanings for both sides of the debate.

[delrem]

64. You seem very agitated.

My advice to you is to learn to live with it, if Hillary Clinton is elected: she admires and emulates Henry Kissinger.
Since you totally support her, stand with her against all opposition, you'll get a whole lot of what you really want.

But then, you must admire Henry Kissinger too. You can't deny that, and support Hillary Clinton as well. And you wouldn't be posting the stuff you post, attacking people who point out Hillary's extreme right-wing connections, who suggest that right-wingers like that are wrong, and dangerous, and have as much blood on their hands as the worst war criminals in human history. Characterizing that opposition as "Hillary bashing", as if it were all about Hillary Rodham Clinton and not the victims of the hell on earth that she promises to bring, like her mentor Henry Kissinger.

So calm down. Promote your politician. Don't let a bit of negativity get you so agitated.

[randys1]

65. You have attacked and insulted me and made allegations that are not true and I am

not surprised.

Because I am not an alerter, they will be allowed to stand.

Your attack of me shows me the type of person we are dealing with.

[delrem]

66. I just take you at your word. n/t

[randys1]

67. No, you made ridiculous accusations and the WH will go to a terrorist teapartier

if this shit continues

[delrem]

68. Now you're incoherent. Bye. n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

5. Fucking war criminal.

That's a nice smile you have for the world killer, Senator Clinton.

[TheFarS1de]

7. Birds of a feather ...

[hootinholler]

9. There's another photo of them

That screams GET A ROOM YOU TWO!

[Still In Wisconsin]

48. Oh god, that's one more mental image

that I can't ever "un-see."

[hootinholler]

54. Found it. Disturbing...

[Still In Wisconsin]

57. You just had to, didn't you. n/t

[hootinholler]

58. Am I wrong? n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

59. No, you are not wrong.

That photo is genuinely creepy, in a "what the hell is with THAT?" kind of way.

[EdwardBernays]

8. Umm.

Her campaign manager own a lobbying form whose clients include military weapons manufacturers and Saudi Arabia, BP Oil, General Dynamics, Walmart, and Bank of America.

To name a few.

Oh and after this became known, Iraq hired them:

http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2013/03/201331883513244683.html

[nashville_brook]

11. good god. they should have to wear logos, i can't keep track anymore.

[EdwardBernays]

15. It's the truth that few dare mention

you'll certainly see no diaries about it....

[nashville_brook]

16. that's the diff btwn "inside baseball" and all the rest of political reporting

when you know who is stroking the checks, everything is much easier to figure out. it's like having the secret formula.

of course there's no diaries about THAT!

[EdwardBernays]

17. v true...

but then again there's also no diaries - well very few - mostly mine - about what the US military is up to in Yemen... I mention that because I think there's a hell of a lot of wilful ignorance in political circles... nature of the beast I guess...

[JDPriestly]

26. What is the US military up to in Yemen? Could you start a thread on that and get us information

on it? Thanks.

[EdwardBernays]

45. Check my diaries

I just did a big one a day or so ago!

But basically they're helping SA bomb Yemeni civilians and enforcing a naval blockade which is staving 2 million children. And have been for months... Rights groups are warning the US could be held responsible for warm crimes.

On the plus side they're helping al Qaeda and ISIS. No really.

This was after years of attempted ethnic cleansing in northern Yemen - cities endlessly bombed with us bombs - led to an uprising.

So yeah. Bombing cities. Collective punishment. Mass starvation.

Oh and the US government has been blocking investigation of this in the UN.

And during this time the US has sold SA billions and billions more Bomba and weapons.

EDIT: Here's a link http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027518453

[JDPriestly]

55. Thank you. I have not heard much about this. I will try to watch that situation.

[EdwardBernays]

56. Search here

As well.

Search for a post called something like: Saudi Arabia vs Iran

Or Saudi Arabia vs Yemen.

There's an amazing video in it that clearly explains the situation on the ground.

Also if you Google it there's plenty of non-American coverage of it.

Anyway, eyes peeled and spread the word if so inclined.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. That can't be posted often enough!

Never hurts to remind people what side of the aisle she use to be on. Who hugs Henry Kissinger?

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[oasis]

18. Iraq War cheerleader, Chris Hitchens denounces Kissinger for war crimes.

Oooookay.

[Kelvin Mace]

40. Do you disagree with Hitchens' facts?

Do you think Hitchens has libeled and slandered Kissinger? How specifically is Kissinger different from say, Dick Cheney?

[oasis]

46. Hitchens is/was a hypocrite and a heavy boozer. I've seen him

several times in person. He was always rude an obnoxious.

As for Kissinger, I don't care for him at all. Hillary has met countless office holders and diplomats, she was considered for Secretay of State because of her unique qualities.

[Kelvin Mace]

60. One more time

Do you dispute Hitchens facts? If so, which ones?

Your opinion that he is a "hypocrite and a boozer" is not germane to the question.

Yes, HRC has met many office holders and diplomats, but how many of them:

1) Are unindicted war criminals?

2) Have gotten fawning book reviews from HRC?

3) Are referred to as a "friend" and "adviser" whose help is sought?

[George II]

20. Gosh, I haven't seen one of these OPs in almost two days.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Any time anyone can present evidence that Kissinger

has been maligned and probably isn't a war criminal I will certainly give it a look. And if I am proven wrong I will certainly apologize publicly and give Henry a hug myself. Until then, why is it okay for her to call someone like that a "friend and adviser" and why would I vote for them? Why would you?

[George II]

52. It's the way politicians speak, haven't you noticed? "My friends on the other side of the aisle..."

And he was Secretary of State, like her. She didn't say she TOOK his advice, did she?

[Kelvin Mace]

62. Generally, political opponents don't write

fawning book reviews:

"Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state. He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels."

She also said that Kissinger’s foreign policy analysis and approach “largely fits with the broad strategy behind the Obama administration’s effort.”

Really?

Shall we briefly review a few of Kissinger's crimes?

1) He sabotaged the Vietnamese peace talks in in 1968 in order to help Nixon get elected.
2) He was the mastermind of the secret bombing campaign that killed tens of thousands in Cambodia which helped destabilize the government allowing Pol Pot to take over. That led to MILLIONS dead.
3) He aided Pakistan in its brutal suppression of Bangladesh, leading to hundreds of thousands of dead.
4) He helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Chile, leading to the murderous regime of Pinochet. He was also up to his eyeballs in Operation Condor

The man has the blood of millions of innocent people on his hands. You do NOT socialize or treat with such a person. The only difference between Kissinger and Cheney is the scale of their crimes, and in this Cheney is second string.

[Helen Borg]

23. What a lovely pair.

[Duppers]

33. Just more yap-yap from "the PROFESSIONAL Left"

[Uncle Joe]

44. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Kelvin Mace.

[AzDar]

49. K & R & ...