Sexual assault survivor groups criticize Bernie's position on campus rapes.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 08:19 PM - Edit history (3)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campus-rape_5695431ee4b086bc1cd5616e

Bernie’s position:

Rape and assault is rape and assault. Whether it takes place on campus or on a dark street. And if a student rapes a fellow student, that has got to be understood to be a very serious crime. It has got to get outside of the school and have a police investigation. And that has to take place. Too many schools are seeing this as 'well it’s a student issue, let’s deal with it.' I disagree with that. It is a crime and it has to be treated as a serious crime. And you are seeing now the real horror of many women who have been assaulted or raped, sitting in a classroom alongside somebody who raped them. Rape is a very, very serious crime and it has to be prosecuted. It has to be dealt with.

The problem:

Currently, any school receiving federal funding is obligated under Title IX to respond to and investigate reports of sexual harassment and assault, regardless of whether police are involved. Multiple court decisions have held that sexual assault can deny someone equal access to education that they are entitled to under the gender equity law Title IX.

Advocates, higher education officials and sexual assault survivor-activists have routinely opposed bills proposing to send all cases to police, citing a distrust in the criminal justice system and data showing that prosecutors rarely bring charges in campus rape cases. Fewer than 10 percent of rape cases reported to police result in criminal charges against an accused perpetrator, according to one 2012 study.

SNIP

Both Brodsky and Dunn said Sanders' comments were typical of lawmakers who often want to appear as though they take sexual violence seriously.

"If politicians want to say they are serious about campus sexual assault," Dunn told HuffPost, "they should start by showing an understanding about the systematic failure of the criminal justice system to address or respond to sexual violence on campus."


ON EDIT:

For people who want to know more about the issues related to sexual assault survivors, this is one of the best:

RAINN.org


Steps a college student may take, regardless of whether she or he chooses to press criminal charges:

https://rainn.org/get-information/sexual-assault-prevention/campus-safety-sexual-assault

If you have experienced sexual assault, there are steps you can take to feel safer.

Make use of on-campus resources. Colleges often provide a host of services to students for free, including security escorts, health centers, psychological services, and sexual assault services.

Request a schedule or housing change. If you have classes with the perpetrator or live in the same building, you can request a change from your college administration. Federal laws, such as the Campus SaVE Act, require colleges to honor these requests.

Access off-campus support services. If you are concerned about anonymity, you can seek out resources located off campus in the community, like a local sexual assault service provider or domestic violence shelter.

Seek a civil protection order (CPO). A CPO, sometimes also referred to as a temporary restraining order (TPO), is a legal document that bars an individual from certain types of contact with the person who is awarded the order. An individual who violates the terms of the restraining order can face criminal charges. Each state has its own rules and regulations for Sexual Assault CPOs that you can learn more about through the American Bar Association.

Create a safety plan. If you are concerned for your ongoing safety, it can be worthwhile to create a safety plan. Safety planning is about finding ways to be safe in the present while planning for your future safety as well.

[JI7]

1. what's his position ?

[beam me up scottie]

3. The author makes it sound like Bernie doesn't care but his statement clearly proves otherwise:

When asked about it, Sanders called campus rape an "epidemic," and agreed that "public institutions" have a role to play in addressing sexual assault -- though the moderator asking the question did not explain what was meant by a "public institution." Sanders also agreed that affirmative consent -- that "only yes means yes" -- should be taught to high school and college students.

However, he also suggested that colleges and universities should not handle any sexual assault case:

Rape and assault is rape and assault. Whether it takes place on campus or on a dark street. And if a student rapes a fellow student, that has got to be understood to be a very serious crime. It has got to get outside of the school and have a police investigation. And that has to take place. Too many schools are seeing this as 'well it’s a student issue, let’s deal with it.' I disagree with that. It is a crime and it has to be treated as a serious crime. And you are seeing now the real horror of many women who have been assaulted or raped, sitting in a classroom alongside somebody who raped them. Rape is a very, very serious crime and it has to be prosecuted. It has to be dealt with.

[djean111]

4. Bernie believes all campus rapes and assaults need to be handled by the police.

Some feel that the police will not actually prosecute.

I can see both sides - and am reminded that Penn State covered up the Sandusky assault. What Bernie is saying that all campus rape and assault is breaking the law, and should be treated as such.

Sadly, it may be that neither the police nor the institutions can be trusted to follow through.

[MeNMyVolt]

10. +1

[pnwmom]

6. I put excerpts in the OP now. Basically he thinks they should be

handled through the criminal justice system, but the problem is only a very small fraction of campus rape cases are ever selected for criminal prosecution.

[JonLeibowitz]

11. That is a huge problem with criminal prosecution

Universities have their own problems though, like differing burdens of proof for students to be "convicted" of sexual assault and less clear and varying evidentiary rules.

It's a complicated issue.

[JI7]

13. schools can't be trusted either. especially where sports are involved

[pnwmom]

15. But the rape victim shouldn't have the only choice be criminal prosecution.

Title lX requires schools to investigate and report, but if a woman doesn't want to go through with criminal prosecution, that shouldn't be her only option. Maybe a trial would feel too traumatic and she just wants the guy out of student housing. Shouldn't that be an option?

[TheFarS1de]

19. A choice ?

A crime was committed , the police should investigate . The judicial system will decide wether a crime occurred or not .

[pnwmom]

20. How often do they prosecute rape cases without a cooperative witness? As it is,

prosecutors bring charges for campus sexual assault in less than 10 percent of the cases.

[jonno99]

35. True enough. But if the charges are serious enough for the school to expel the perp,

then it should be serious enough for an outside prosecutor to look at the case. Else we're just letting the perp go free to molest someone else - somewhere else.

My two cents...

[pnwmom]

42. Women who have been raped should not be pressured by anyone to report --

even to make sure the attacker doesn't bother others. To say otherwise is another form of victim-blaming. If a woman chooses not to report, it is not her fault if the rapist attacks someone else.

rainn.org

[jberryhill]

44. If she doesn't report it, how does he get removed from campus?

[pnwmom]

49. She can report it to the school, as I said, and they will report it to the authorities.

But she should be able to limit her cooperation to an investigation conducted within the school, and not be pressured to press criminal charges if she doesn't want to go through a criminal procedure.

[TheFarS1de]

50. So where is the check and balance in that system ?

Who investigates and how is a conclusion reached? It seems open to abuse via that method to my mind . That is why I believe the police should be involved as a matter of course . If she doesn't want to go through official channels , I fail to see how anything is legal given they have no authority other than university placement . It just seems strange to not prosecute a rapist in my mind .

[pnwmom]

53. It is up to the woman to decide if she wants to go to the police. Period. Full stop.

Any kind of pressure or force adds to the trauma of the victim.

That said, the school is required to report when she tells the school. But it is entirely up to the victim whether she wants to cooperate in a police investigation or testify against her assailant.

How many rape victims do you know? Have they all reported their rapes? I know three and none of them could bring themselves to do so. And it wasn't my job or anyone else's to guilt them into it -- however much I would have liked "justice."

[TheFarS1de]

76. I grew up with rape victims...

young boys who were molested by a family member . About 12 cases ended up emerging . All but 2 made it to court , 2 of my childhood friends died prior . One from suicide another from a drug overdose . In the end justice was served , but it was hard . And I am eternally thankful that the victims brought this person to the attention of authorities , so he could no longer hurt anyone else .

[pnwmom]

78. With children, mandatory reporters must report. That isn't the case with adults.

It isn't fair to impose any obligations to go to trial on someone who has already been made a victim. As much as possible, we need to give victims the right to define their own boundaries -- and that means deciding whether to report or not, whether to cooperate with an investigation, and whether to testify in a trial.

If they are going to heal, they need to feel a sense of agency, and they won't have it if we push them into trying to help others. It has to be up to them -- their own healing has to be the most important goal for them, and whatever will help them the most in their healing.

[TheFarS1de]

80. I can see that perspective ...

it's a horrible situation for anyone to endure . I guess I just hate the idea of a rapist not being dealt with legally so they are dealt with . Also the issue with how fairly both parties are treated "in house" . But I can see the perspective of the victim having difficulty dealing with the ensuing process .

[pnwmom]

83. Believe me, I know how you feel.

In one particular situation, I couldn't be more frustrated with my own helplessness in a situation where I would love to step in and fix everything. To right the wrongs. The terrible wrongs.

But I can't. I can't wound this person even more. She needs more than anything else the right to set her own boundaries and make her own decisions. And I have to give it to her, no matter how revenge-worthy her assailant is. The victim is more important.

PS. She is getting therapy, so maybe someday she'll be strong enough. But maybe not -- and it won't ever be my job to substitute my judgement for hers.

[jberryhill]

52. What qualifies schools to conduct rape investigations?

Is this to be done by campus security? Professors? What are their qualifications to conduct these investigations?


So she should report it to the school and then not cooperate with the investigation. What happens if he denies it?

[pnwmom]

55. Title IX requires universities to investigate. I don't know the details.

There are two levels of investigation and consequences here. She can choose to report it to the school and/or go directly to the police. But when she reports it to the school, they are required to report it to the authorities.

She can choose whether she wants to get involved in a criminal case or not. If she only wants it handled within the school -- to have the school investigate and decide on consequences, then that is her choice.

And if the man denies it, the school will have to do the best it can to keep the woman safe while recognizing the man's rights, too. It's a flawed process but better than leaving the whole thing to the police. Often, all the woman wants is to get the man out of her dorm or kept at a distance.

Here is what a major survivors' group says about possible options:

rainn.org

If you have experienced sexual assault, there are steps you can take to feel safer.

Make use of on-campus resources. Colleges often provide a host of services to students for free, including security escorts, health centers, psychological services, and sexual assault services.
Request a schedule or housing change. If you have classes with the perpetrator or live in the same building, you can request a change from your college administration. Federal laws, such as the Campus SaVE Act, require colleges to honor these requests.

Access off-campus support services. If you are concerned about anonymity, you can seek out resources located off campus in the community, like a local sexual assault service provider or domestic violence shelter.

Seek a civil protection order (CPO). A CPO, sometimes also referred to as a temporary restraining order (TPO), is a legal document that bars an individual from certain types of contact with the person who is awarded the order. An individual who violates the terms of the restraining order can face criminal charges. Each state has its own rules and regulations for Sexual Assault CPOs that you can learn more about through the American Bar Association.

[jberryhill]

58. Wow

Impressive wall of words non responsive to the question.

Who adjudicates guilt, and what are their qualifications to do so? A Ph.D. in archaeology?

[pnwmom]

59. You can look up the law more easily than I can. And I think the school committees

vary from school to school, and are usually a mixture of administrators, faculty, and students. Some schools do a better or worse job than others.

[jberryhill]

60. "Some schools do a better or worse job than others."

A better job of what? Conducting investigations and trials?

[pnwmom]

63. Both. But the committees give victims options short of criminal prosecution,

flawed as they may be.

[Ilsa]

89. Precisely. How can the school

do anything if the perp denies it, and there is no evidence taken of a crime, such as through a rape kit?

Yes, it is up to the victim to decide. But everyone needs to understand what can't happen (the university's limits) if she refuses to go through the police, get medical attention ASAP, etc. I'd like everyone to be able to make an informed decision.

[jonno99]

54. I agree completely. However, that was not my point. Are you comfortable with the idea

of college tribunals passing judgment - expelling another student - without due process?

[TheFarS1de]

75. This was my point .

I do not wish to cause anyone more distress however the University seems to me to be the least qualified people to investigate a serious crime . That is my concern , that it is a fair process .

[pnwmom]

85. They need a fair process, and some schools are better at that than others.

As the mother of a son and a daughter, I can see both sides all too well.

[jberryhill]

43. "Maybe a trial would feel too traumatic and she just wants the guy out of student housing"

Trials are a nuisance.

In a trial, he would have the right to a jury, an attorney, standards of evidence, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, etc..

You're right, all that stuff gets in the way off kicking him out of his residence.

[pnwmom]

74. Trials can add to a victim's injury, which is why most women don't report.

And according to rainn.org, Federal law provides for the schools to use their discretion in making decisions regarding housing.

rainn.org

If you have experienced sexual assault, there are steps you can take to feel safer.

Make use of on-campus resources. Colleges often provide a host of services to students for free, including security escorts, health centers, psychological services, and sexual assault services.
Request a schedule or housing change. If you have classes with the perpetrator or live in the same building, you can request a change from your college administration. Federal laws, such as the Campus SaVE Act, require colleges to honor these requests.

Access off-campus support services. If you are concerned about anonymity, you can seek out resources located off campus in the community, like a local sexual assault service provider or domestic violence shelter.

Seek a civil protection order (CPO). A CPO, sometimes also referred to as a temporary restraining order (TPO), is a legal document that bars an individual from certain types of contact with the person who is awarded the order. An individual who violates the terms of the restraining order can face criminal charges. Each state has its own rules and regulations for Sexual Assault CPOs that you can learn more about through the American Bar Association.

[mythology]

73. The problem with that is that colleges have much lower standards and systems that are

largely opaque even to the people using them.

I don't know that I can support a system that doesn't allow the accused to confront the accuser. The University of California at San Diego had to be sued after expelling a male student under those circumstances.

That said, the criminal justice system is often unfair against women.

I don't think there is an easy solution to this that is both fair and effective to all sides.

[pnwmom]

84. You are absolutely right. There are no consistently fair or easy solutions.

As the mother of young adults, I can see both sides all too well. If my daughter were ever raped? If my son was falsely accused? Unfortunately, I don't see any simple solutions that would work in every case.

[redgreenandblue]

82. I don't think creating extra-judicial systems with lower standards of proof is a good idea.

That is the whole point of letting the schools handle it instead of the courts, isn't it?

Since rape is hard to prove in court, to create a parallel system (run by lesser qualified and equipped people) where some form of conviction can be achieved without meeting the usual degree of certainty.

I remember that you have mentioned that you are a lawyer, so I am very surprised that you are in favor of this.

I think this is a dangerous development. I expect the supreme court to crack down on this sort of thing eventually, as they should.

[randys1]

2. I wasnt aware of how complicated this is. One thing for sure, the survivor groups

dont trust the cops to always properly pursue., and I can see that.

Most con men believe that most rape allegations are false. I just went thru this elsewhere, bunch of rightwing men talking about how Women usually make it up because they were jilted or some such nonsense.

So no doubt most cops would also.

[djean111]

8. Thinking about the Penn State cover-up, I would be afraid that rapes and assaults

would be covered up so they would not make the school look bad, or perhaps to protect big contributors or athletes or whatever.
Really a bad situation all around.

[pnwmom]

14. Title IX requires schools to report, so criminal prosecution is still a possibility.

But it shouldn't be then ONLY avenue.

[pnwmom]

9. Fewer than 10% of campus rape cases result in charges.

And many victims just don't want to go through a trial -- they just don't want to see their attacker in their dorm (or whatever).

[beam me up scottie]

5. Sanders Co-Sponsored A Bill That Would Add New Rules For How Colleges Handle Rape Reports

Sanders Co-Sponsored A Bill That Would Add New Rules For How Colleges Handle Rape Reports

Sanders has avoided saying much on the issue of campus rape, a topic that received unprecedented attention by the Obama administration, and one being debated with multiple pieces of legislation in Congress. He quietly signed on as a co-sponsor to a bipartisan bill put together by Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), the Campus Accountability and Safety Act, or CASA.

Notably, Sanders signed on as a co-sponsor to CASA in September, one day after Democratic presidential rival Hillary Clinton laid out bullet points for how she would tackle college sexual assault.

Rather than refer more campus rape reports to police, CASA would ramp up penalties for colleges that mishandle cases, and establish new resources for rape survivors in college, and require that schools disclose how they sanction cases of sexual violence.

[MeNMyVolt]

7. I learned something from your post/link pnwmom.

Thank you, many times over. At first I was thinking that yes, just "go to the police", but then I read this...""Advocating for requiring survivors to go to the police shows his lack of understanding of what constitutes equity on campus", and what followed. I recommend folks read the whole article.

This is why DU is important.

[pnwmom]

12. You're welcome. Some women who have been through a trauma

feel that a criminal action will just compound it.

But they want the school to investigate and, for example, get the attacker out of their dorm. (Or any dorm.) So to say that everything should be handled by the criminal justice system prevents women from taking smaller measures that they might prefer.

[Kentonio]

79. This is one of those horribly complex issues though where there probably isn't a 'right' answer

On one hand its hard to disagree with a rape victim having the choice to not be dragged though a terribly traumatic court case, especially when the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Rape conviction levels are always low, because the circumstances often lead to a 'he said, she said' situation. In order to provide the accused with a fair opportunity for defending themselves though, it's extremely difficult to remedy that situation in any way other than to assume guilt, something that goes against the most basic tenets of our justice system.

On the other hand however, if it is not dealt with by the courts and perpetrators can just walk free having just been moved out of a dorm or kicked off campus, then how is that in any way fair to their future victims (rape is rarely a single instance crime) who might then have to go through the same life destroying experience? Also how often do the victims involved genuinely want their attackers to just walk free? In most of these incidents, isn't the desire to just 'get them out of the dorm' just a (perfectly understandable) desperation to not have to go through a process that is likely to be unfair and to increase the trauma? Does it really serve any form of real justice?

Neither alternative is fair to everyone, and both bear huge emotional costs to the victims involved. I honestly don't know what the right thing to do in these situations is, but my intuition is that all you really can do is make any reported incident of rape go through the proper legal system and then just do everything humanly possible to reduce the trauma of that experience as much as possible for the victims. Sadly I doubt this will be an issue that we find any real solution for in the foreseeable future. I hope to hell that I'm wrong, but I just don't see where the answer lies.

[pnwmom]

81. I have thought about this a great deal

because of one particular victim I'm close to. I've sought counseling with the local assault center, and read a lot, and the bottom line is: if I do anything to push her, then I'm violating her boundaries. I'm taking her agency away from her. I'm adding to the trauma she's already been through, and making it even harder for her to heal. It is not her responsibility to protect future victims -- her own welfare, as she perceives it, has to be paramount to her.

So all I can do is try to stay open, be a good sounding board, validate her feelings, and of course let her know that if she ever wants support for taking action, I will be there. She has a therapist, it has been years now, and I'm resigned to the fact that she probably won't ever take legal action. It kills me to know that she was hurt and who she was hurt by, but it can't be my decision to go after this man. It has to be hers.

I agree with you -- it is an incredibly complicated, frustrating situation with no one-size-fits-all answers.

[Kentonio]

87. Thank you for being one of the people who are there for a victim of this horrific crime.

I truly and genuinely hope that she finds some peace eventually, and unlikely as it might be that the rapist responsible ends up facing the justice he deserves.

[MeNMyVolt]

16. I have to kick this, as it's important.

Not as an anti-Sanders thing. I'm sure if SBS read it, he would agree. He really does evolve, despite all of his supporters insisting he has no need to.

[pnwmom]

18. Thanks! They both evolve in their views, as they should. As any sentient being should. n/t

[Punkingal]

17. Anyone see the documentary "The Hunting Ground?"

Neither colleges nor police handle campus assaults properly, especially college administrators. It is shameful.

[Curmudgeoness]

21. Nit picking.

They can infer that Bernie doesn't care about rapes and assaults, but they are being deceptive. What this article suggests is that Bernie is not taking the subject seriously, but I see it differently. He never says that the colleges should not also be involved in any investigations. He never says that police can't do a better job. But I have to agree with him...police should be involved every time. We all know that the colleges are motivated to brush this under the rug. It happens all the time.

[pnwmom]

26. The article doesn't say he isn't taking it seriously. Just that he needs

to get better informed. As do some people here.

Rape victims don't always want the police involved -- and it should be up to them, or it's another trauma. Schools are required to report but victims can't be required to press charges or even speak to the police.

They should be able to cooperate with a school's investigation only if that is their choice.

[tkmorris]

22. This is completely absurd

Just when I think it can't get any more ludicrous, it does. What is with the endless smear campaigns? Is it that hard to simply sell your own candidate on their merits rather than reach ever further into whackadoodle land to tear down the others?

[MeNMyVolt]

23. WTF are you talking about?

Have you read this forum the last 8 months?

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Yep, I've watched Sanders supporters be called every name in the book, from white trash klan members

to Ayn Rand Libertarian Mac Fanboys to pony-wanting Venezuelan Stalinists.

[MeNMyVolt]

27. Ookay. You have a good night now.

Backing away slowly.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Smart move

[pnwmom]

28. That's not what is happening here. What is wrong with pointing out

an area in which a candidate needs more information?

No one is questioning Bernie's intentions here -- in my OP or anyone in the article.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. It's pretty disingenuous.

He's saying "it's a serious crime, it should be treated as a serious crime"- I think we would all have trouble disagreeing with that sentiment.

[pnwmom]

37. It should be up to the woman whether she wants it handled through the criminal

system or not. For the majority of women, doing so feels like a further trauma -- almost an additional rape -- so they never press charges.

I know several rape victims. Not one wanted to report -- as frustrating as that can be to those who love them, including me.

College students have the problem that it can be hard to get away from their attackers. Many of them don't want to go through the stress and trauma of a trial -- they just want to get the guy out of their lives. (Classes, dorms, etc.) And their school should be able to help them with that.

Here's a good link. You might learn something.

rainn.org

[Warren DeMontague]

48. I guess RAINN is okay again, then. I remember they went under the bus for criticizing the term

"rape culture".

Apparently they were insufficiently enthusiastic about blaming rape on Seth Rogen movies or naked boobs on HBO shows or something, can't remember.

Anyway, they do good work. I agree it should be up to the victim.

But I also don't think you're going to get any traction trying to portray Bernie Sanders as somehow "wrong on sexual assault" because he said "it's a serious crime and should be treated as such".

[AlbertCat]

95. "it's a serious crime and should be treated as such".

Indeed.

And the police can ask the victim if she wants to press charges.

And if she doesn't... the police can then leave.


There's nothing traumatic in informing the victim of her options.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. No, not at all.

But what's happening here is a deliberate misrepresentation of Sen. Sanders statement and position; really, it's like this week's pattern, because it's pretty similar to Chelsea Clinton's "Sanders wants to dismantle medicare and the ACA".

derp derp.

It is, in essence, trying to spin what is a stronger, more forceful position on an issue as somehow weaker or even directly opposed.

And whoever said it was "playing to the lowest information voters" was spot on. Sanders isn't any more wrong or "weak" on sexual assault than he is on universal health coverage.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. It's disingenuous to suggest this means dealing with sexual assault LESS harshly.

It's a serious crime, it should be treated as a serious crime, that is what Sanders was saying.

[pnwmom]

32. No one is suggesting that. But there are three problems with the only-criminal-investigation

approach that he seems to be advocating.

One, title ix requires schools to both investigate and report. (Not just report)

Two, victims don't always want to press criminal charges but should have other alternatives within their school

And three, even if they do seek to press charges, prosecutors prosecute cases less than 10% of the time.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Okay, so One: fine, it's required, but that doesn't mean that campuses always take it seriously

enough when it is handled internally. That's pretty clear.

Two: Fair enough. There should be consideration for the victim's wishes.

Three: If the criminal justice system isn't dealing with it as it should, lets fix the criminal justice system. Surely no one would suggest that because the criminal justice system doesn't handle it as well as it should, we should stop treating it as a crime.

[pnwmom]

40. Well, when Bernie said, "it HAS to be prosecuted" he wasn't taking all the victims'

wishes into consideration. Most women don't want to go through a prosecution.

And college women value the alternative of using the college system, as flawed as it may be. Bernie doesn't seem to see the point of the college being involved.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. I think his main takeaway is, it's a serious crime and he wants it treated as a serious crime.

If people want to run against that message, good luck.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. "the systematic failure of the criminal justice system" - and campus internal disciplinary systems

are somehow supposed to be preferable?

Whoever is trying to spin this as "Sanders doesn't take sexual assault on campus seriously" clearly went to the Debbie Wasserman Schultz "pot leads to heroin addiction but prescription opiates dont because pot and opiates are different" school of logical argument formulation.

[beam me up scottie]

33. The spin is amazing.

He quietly signed on as a co-sponsor to a bipartisan bill put together by Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), the Campus Accountability and Safety Act, or CASA.

Notably, Sanders signed on as a co-sponsor to CASA in September, one day after Democratic presidential rival Hillary Clinton laid out bullet points for how she would tackle college sexual assault.

He "quietly" signed on?

The author of that hit piece is actually claiming Bernie doesn't care about rape victims, and that he only cosponsored the CASA legislation to make it look like he does.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. "LOOKOUT, I GOT A NARRATIVE HERE!"

[beam me up scottie]

38. The article reads like a Republican attack ad.

Like the ones claiming he "protected" pedophiles.

[Vattel]

65. The article is based on the false claim that he said that schools should not

do their own investigations of sexual assaults and rapes. He simply didn't say that.

Note too that Sanders emphasis on the importance of criminal investigations is supported by Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN), which has stated that it is “imperative that colleges and universities partner with local law enforcement around these crimes – from the time of report to resolution.”

[beam me up scottie]

67. That's what I mean, it's so biased I can't believe anyone is taking it seriously.

The author repeatedly contradicts himself, it's a terrible article.

[Vattel]

70. I will have to "quietly" support you in that assessment.

[Kalidurga]

39. I didn't see where Bernie said colleges were not free to take the rapist out of the classes...

that their victim is in. Or where he said that colleges couldn't still have their internal disciplinary hearings. Only that he is advocating they report the incident to the police. Now if the victim doesn't want to press charges they can talk to the victim and report her as a Jane Doe.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. we've entered silly season, bigtime.

Again, I guess if Debbie Wasserman Schultz saying that we should put pot smokers in prison because heroin and by the way pot and opiates aren't the same thing makes sense to you, this kind of 'reasoning' seems legit too.

[Fawke Em]

46. But nothing on the educational component he offered?

[Armstead]

47. amazing some of the crap used to tear down candidates

I kniw, I know....Bernie can't possibly know what it's like because he's an old white male...so he doesn't deserve to win....yadda.yadda

[leftofcool]

51. I would assume that survivors of sexual assault know what they are talking about.

Perhaps a woman who has been in that position does know quite a bit more than a 74 year old man. Just guessing here.

[Armstead]

57. they certainly do...I'm not talking about them

Talking about those who jump on it for partisan purposes

[leftofcool]

62. In a way, it is a partisan issue

Truthfully, it wouldn't matter whether it was Bernie Sanders or Charlie Brown running for president because no man can fully understand women's issues like another woman can. Sexual assault is just one of those issues. That's not playing any gender card, it's just plain fact.

[Armstead]

64. This is not the kind of issue a president deals with

Yes justice, etc...But it is generally accepted thst rape is a crime...But whether a school decides to handle these situations through the legal process is more of an individual matter, and won't be affected by a president or even Congress.

[Vattel]

68. That's not necessariy true.

There has been several attempts at the federal and state level to draft laws requiring universities to report rapes and sexual assaults to law enforcement agencies. And the department of education's office of civil rights has been forcing universities to adopt new policies concerning campus sexual misconduct. (Mostly they get what they want by threatening to withhold federal grants from universities that don't comply.

[Armstead]

69. Okay I stand corrected but still don't think it should be used for...

Political ammo.

It seems to be part of the effort to advance the Bernie has a problem with women meme

[Vattel]

72. I agree with you about the article. It's hard to imagine it being more unfair.

I do think reasonable people can disagree on whether universities should be legally required to report alleged sex crimes to law enforcement. There is already a requirement to report alleged child abuse to law enforcement, but rape and sexual assault are obviously very different. Another real issue is whether universities, under pressure from the dept. of education, are instituting new campus investigative and disciplinary policies that don't adequately protect the due process rights of those accused of sexual misconduct. I don't know what Sanders thinks about any of these issues.

[Vattel]

66. It's not a woman's issue. Men are sexually assaulted too.

Can a woman who has never been sexually assaulted understand sexual assault better than a man who has been sexually assaulted?

[beam me up scottie]

71. Sexual assault is not just a women's issue, men get raped too.

And not all women understand, many Republican women often blame the victim and don't support efforts to combat rape culture.

[Motown_Johnny]

56. Is it because of his website? n/t

[Vattel]

61. Is this whole article based on a misunderstanding?

It claims that Sanders "suggested that colleges and universities should not handle any sexual assault case." The quote it presents does not, however, support that claim. I don't know what else Sanders has said, but so far I have no reason to believe that he thinks universities should not have their own investigation of campus sexual assaults and rapes.

[Eric J in MN]

77. When a girl tells a college official that she was raped

...the official can say, "You should call the police" or "Don't call the police."

Bernie Sanders is saying the official should do the former.

[pnwmom]

86. If he says that, that's wrong. There's no "should" involved for the victim.

The school IS required to report any cases that they become aware of.

But the girl can't be told she must report to the police. It's up to the girl whether she chooses to or not.

And Title IX obligates the school to provide students with an environment free of sexual harassment or assaults -- and this obligation holds whether or not she wants to go to the police.

This is a similar situation as when an employee experiences sexual harassment in the workplace. The employer is obligated to deal with it, even though most of the cases would never qualify for a criminal prosecution.

http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/title-ix-the-basics/

3. Your school must be proactive in ensuring that your campus is free of sex discrimination. You are protected under Title IX even if you do not experience sex discrimination directly. Schools must take immediate steps to address any sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence on campus to prevent it from affecting students further. If a school knows or reasonably should know about discrimination, harassment or violence that is creating a “hostile environment” for any student, it must act to eliminate it, remedy the harm caused and prevent its recurrence. Schools may not discourage survivors from continuing their education, such as telling them to “take time off” or forcing them to quit a team, club or class. You have the right to remain on campus and have every educational program and opportunity available to you.

4. Your school must have an established procedure for handling complaints of sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence. Every school must have a Title IX Coordinator who manages complaints. The Coordinator’s contact information should be publicly accessible on the school’s website. If you decide to file a complaint, your school must promptly investigate it regardless of whether you report to the police (though a police investigation may very briefly delay the school’s investigation if law enforcement is gathering evidence). A school may not wait for the conclusion of a criminal proceeding and should conclude its own investigation within a semester’s time (the 2011 Office for Civil Rights Title IX guidance proposes 60 days as an appropriate time-frame). The school should use a “preponderance of the evidence” standard to determine the outcome of a complaint, meaning discipline should result if it is more likely than not that discrimination, harassment and/or violence occurred. The final decision should be provided to you and the accused in writing. Both of you have the right to appeal the decision.

5. Your school must take immediate action to ensure a victim can continue their education free of ongoing sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence. Along with issuing a no contact directive to the accused, a schools must ensure that any reasonable changes to your housing, class or sports schedule, campus job, or extracurricular activity and clubs are made to ensure you can continue your education free from ongoing sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence. These arrangements can occur BEFORE a formal complaint, investigation, hearing, or final decision is made regarding your complaint. It also can CONTINUE after the entire process since you have a right to an education free of sex-based discrimination, harassment or violence. Additionally, these accommodations should not over-burden complainant-victims or limit your educational opportunities; instead, schools can require the accused to likewise change some school activities or classes to ensure there is not ongoing hostile educational environment.

[Eric J in MN]

90. How about when college officials

...tell a girl who says she's been raped, "Don't call the police."

Can we agree that's wrong?

Maybe that's what Bernie Sanders was speaking out against.

[pnwmom]

92. Yes, that's wrong. And maybe that's what he meant. nt

[Vattel]

91. The school is not required to report assaults or rapes to the police,

and Sanders did not say that they should be required to do so.

[pnwmom]

93. This is what he said:

"And if a student rapes a fellow student, that has got to be understood to be a very serious crime. It has got to get outside of the school and have a police investigation." "Has got" means "must."

[Vattel]

94. Yes, he said that, but that doesn't mean he wants reporting to the police

to be legally required. Maybe he does, idk. Or maybe he just agrees with RAINN, which has stated that it is “imperative that colleges and universities partner with local law enforcement around these crimes – from the time of report to resolution.” They use the word "imperative" but that doesn't mean that they favor a law requiring schools to report assaults to local law enforcement.

Edited to add: Many universities do not report assaults to the police unless they judge that campus safety requires police intervention.

[madokie]

88. Another one of your bogus

if not outright lies to try to smear Bernie Sanders. Do you not have any sense of decency?

Have a good day.

'll pass on reading any more of your post in the future.

Bernie Sanders Will be Your Next President as well as mine and the rest of us here.

[AlbertCat]

96. Yes it's a serious and very complicated issue...

But this was put up just to try to smear Sanders, not because it's serious.

It's more of that "Did you hear what Sanders didn't say today!!! Shocking!" schtick that's been going on since the beginning of the campaigns.