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seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
Fri May 4, 2012, 09:56 AM May 2012

The Angry Underground World of Failed Pickup Artists

The goal of the Anti-Pickup-Artist Movement, as stated on its highly official title page, is to reveal "the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them." Here, you'll find the sad, scary, skeezy world of men who have turned their backs on said seduction community after spending thousands of dollars on "educational materials," seminars, and boot camps to no avail. Click on "Get Instant Access" and you'll find yourself amongst, as one PuaHate poster puts it, "thousands of ex pua students that payed the $ , learned and practiced the materials, and got no results based on said materials." Results, apparently, would entail mass quantities of sexy women lining up to bone him and his ilk, regardless of the fact that they spend all of their time ranting and raving on a misogynistic website.

We browsed the forums for a few hours and failed to find one user who wondered whether women are unfairly targeted (as well as stereotyped, pigeonholed, and marketed) by the seduction community. Nope! On their predominately male, heterosexual planet it's the poor, gullible men who are the true victims, and the PuaHate forums are an outlet where they're free to break down reasons why particular PUAs are the "ultimate scammers" who "hardly ever get laid and when they do it is with average to below average girls," review boot camps, detail legal issues (Wah, I spent thousands of dollars on X product and I'm still not getting laid), and stalk the partners of famous "gurus." And it's the partners — and women in general — who are the villains to these outcasts. PuaHate is "basically a women/seduction-based 4chan with usernames and individuality," according to one user. There are over 8,200 registered members, but you don't have to be one to read their posts, and the PUA Twitter account has over 10,000 followers. The purpose behind the website — to reveal the scams and deceptive marketing techniques used by the "Dating Gurus" — is not one without any merit. The PUA community at large is sketchy in and of itself. But it's hard to feel bad for guys who are so upset that they couldn't pay money to learn how to attract women that they take it out on their "targets" rather than the scammers themselves; a large amount of threads revolve around how unfair it is that men have to resort to Pick Up Artists to get a girl to notice them. "A HB5 [hot babe whose hotness is a 5 out of 10] with gonorrhea is still higher value than a male 9 in western society," complained one poster. "Oh, but wait. Necrophilia exists. So, to sum up: women can be DEAD and get laid more than an average looking male," wrote another. "Honestly I don't know what to do- set up a male model's profile and lure out stinky bitches to educate and purify, or set up a fake stupid cunt ugly profile and lure out all the losers men who message me to say how beautiful I am and how much they would love for me to become their princess," wondered yet another.

But at its core, PuaHate members don't hate the game, "just the BS and hype and fluff that goes with it." As one poster explains, "I would just like to get to the point where I can bang a girl whenever I want ie 5 times a week." Is that so much to ask for?

*

That would be too complicated (and depressing) for these men to consider, so they spend their time swapping dating "tips" that are so disgusting they almost seem like jokes — except they're not. "A guy once told me that all you need is some white powder (doesn't have to be real coke) and then you can use it to coerce a girl to leave the club with you," one guy wrote. "My only fear with this method is that once she finds out it's not coke she might cry rape." Here's a guide to "catching average girls who are broke." Even more depressing are the few stragglers who are smart enough to realize that Pick Up Artists won't help but genuinely seem confused about how to meet and connect with women. "Is there anything that is honest? Even blog posts? I can't tell what's real and what's BS," wrote Fakepeoplesuck. "How about being able to socialize with people and be respected instead of becoming the runt of the group? Just talking to women without being considered a creep, not even trying to have sex with them?" In return, men told poor Fakepeoplesuck that "Most people here are sexless due to standards in looks" and "If you're good looking you can say almost anything and not be considered a creep. I'm guessing you're not. But I don't know what you're doing either..."

http://jezebel.com/5906648/the-angry-underground-world-of-failed-pickup-artists
___________________________________
Urban Dictionary

PUA
Pick Up Artist. A master in the art picking up babes.

An overrated self-help movement started by frustrated 30 year old virgins turned amateur con-men that attempts to systematically change meek nerds into false-confident assholes.
____________________________________

i am sorry, women. i really am not going out searching for this stuff. being sent to me. but really? talk about the net effecting us. sigh. really?

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The Angry Underground World of Failed Pickup Artists (Original Post) seabeyond May 2012 OP
Yup. MadrasT May 2012 #1
we were talking about narcissists .. ;) iverglas May 2012 #2

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
1. Yup.
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:09 AM
May 2012
One man had a revolutionary idea: "i encourage everyone on PUAHATE to do up dating profiles of really fat/hideous/physically deformed/mentally challenged females and prove to themselves that all a woman needs to attract top quality males is a pair of tits an a cunt," he suggested. But why are men like him on PuaHate in the first place? Because they're angry and unaware that it's their inability to see women as anything other than "a pair of tits and a cunt" is what's impeding their ability to actually meet and charm women. Instead of a modicum of self-awareness, these guys complain endlessly that women only like good looking men.


A pair of tits and a cunt. Yup.

I know a number of single men in their 40's.

All they do is continually complain about how there are only self-centered, self-entitled, bitchy women out there in the dating pool.

I am sure it has *nothing* to do with them (the men). Not a thing. It's all the shallow, self-centered, unrealistic women's fault.

There just aren't any good women out there, y'know...

Their evaluation of a good date is if the woman was agreeable, personality-wise (i.e., completely noncritical of anything and everything they do), and, of course, if they got "lucky".

I hang out on another internet forum and this meme is pretty rampant there, too.

These kinds of men do not see women as actual people.
 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
2. we were talking about narcissists .. ;)
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:25 AM
May 2012

These guys are the unsuccessful narcissists. The ones who are entitled to all they survey, and for some unknown reason are not handed it on a plate.

I just copy and paste this old post of mine from time to time. It was specifically about men who kill women.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x14532#14561


There's always talk of "depression" and being an excluded outsider and yada yada. Well, sometimes people are depressed and excluded for very good reason. They're assholes.

Being depressed and blaming other people for one's problems are not necessary corollaries, and in fact tend to be quite different things. And depression involves an absence of self-worth, not a feeling of entitlement. Blaming others and feeling entitled are much more classic indications of a personality disorder. Maybe in a person who isn't smart enough to get what they want by manipulating, an unsuccessful narcissist, depression follows.

... I think it's less likely in a middle-aged person, for depression to launch them into months of hateful thoughts and words, and plotting to kill -- and in this case, as in the case of Marc Lépine at the Montreal Polytechnique, for instance, to kill individuals who themselves have nothing to do with the person's problem, who merely represent the group he sees as the cause of his problems. Women.

Men kill women. Men harm women. They kill their intimate partners, they rape strangers, and some, like Lépine and Sodini, kill groups of strangers, because they are women.

This isn't a sign of depression. Depression doesn't cause misogyny. A personality that accepts no responsibility, that feels entitled, is a personality ripe for misogyny when it goes looking for an object of its need to blame and punish. Women are vulnerable targets. Women are already objectified in our society and the mind of the person in question. He is entitled to sex -- women are for sex. He can't get any. It's women's fault. Because nothing is his fault. Taking responsibility isn't an option, for someone like this. He gets miserable enough, what he needs is vengeance.

And there just is not sufficient evidence in this case that his actions stemmed from anything but his supreme narcissism and feelings of entitlement.

He doesn't talk about women he likes and can't succeed with, or about what a relationship would bring him that he's missing. He talks about wanting sex, and vilifies women who have sex with other men, and women in general.

<quoted from another poster> "When they endure years of being a social outcast they come to believe that there truly is something wrong with them and that they are, in fact, worthless."

It really is possible that they are just horrible people, and that's why nobody wants to be around them.

Aha! I just googled the term I coined up there, "unsuccessful narcissist". First up:

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article2439812.ece

In therapy, Young tries to engage “the lonely shamed child” that he sees as the source of the pain for an individual with NPD <narcissistic personality disorder>. All of which is difficult to achieve, because even if a person agrees to treatment, Young points out dryly, he may walk out unless the therapist keeps telling him he’s simply the best; ordinary won’t do.

“A lot of people only come because they’ve been sent by desperate partners or bosses. Successful narcissists have something extra that means people tolerate their bad behaviour. The most dangerous is the unsuccessful narcissist. He doesn’t have money or power or charm, so he’s fired a lot of the time. He drives more and more people away, until he ends up alone and a very bleak person.

In treatment, people diagnosed with NPD are divided into two groups. In one are “pure” or thick-skinned narcissists. They have often been extremely spoilt and indulged and given no boundaries as children. In the second group are thin-skinned narcissists, such as Vaknin, who have grown up feeling unloved and unlovable. Young says the former are almost impossible to help; the latter may respond to therapy. “If there’s no change in a year, the chances of success are low. The person with NPD will constantly try to prove he is superior to the therapist; that the professional knows nothing.”

However -- a more successful narcissist can also be a woman killer.

I'd suggest that what happens in those cases is that the narcissist has succeeded in getting what he thinks he's entitled to -- and then the thing he thinks he's entitled to exercises its own will, and thwarts him. The woman who was his possession, by right, divests him of herself.

And that just isn't permitted. Murder is the reassertion of entitlement, the regaining of self-love.

But oops, then he's an unsuccessful narcissist. Couple the failure with the foreseeable consequences of the act done to reassert the possession / to regain the self-love -- punishment for the murder committed -- and you get murder-suicide.
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