On-bitch-and-other-misogynist-language

[Little Star]

I found this very interesting even though the blog post is rather old. Besides Melissa is a hot shit! Ya gotta read the whole thing.

Shakesville
By: Melissa McEwan
November 20, 2007

[Important Note to Feminist Noobs: This is a long post. It contains lots of different, though related, Feminist 101 kind of ideas about misogynist language. Please carefully read the whole post before commenting. If you don't understand one of the points that is made in the post, I highly recommend asking for clarification before issuing an opinion on it. If you make an argument in comments that has already been discredited within the post, be prepared to be thoroughly mocked.]

Andi Zeisler, co-founder (with Lisa Jervis) of Bitch magazine, wrote an interesting piece for the WaPo this weekend on "the B-word," its cultural connotation, and its reclamation:


Bitch is a word we use culturally to describe any woman who is strong, angry, uncompromising and, often, uninterested in pleasing men. We use the term for a woman on the street who doesn't respond to men's catcalls or smile when they say, "Cheer up, baby, it can't be that bad." We use it for the woman who has a better job than a man and doesn't apologize for it. We use it for the woman who doesn't back down from a confrontation.

So let's not be disingenuous. Is it a bad word? Of course it is. As a culture, we've done everything possible to make sure of that, starting with a constantly perpetuated mindset that deems powerful women to be scary, angry and, of course, unfeminine -- and sees uncompromising speech by women as anathema to a tidy, well-run world.

…[Bitch magazine is] not about hating men but about elevating women. But too many people don't see the difference. And, at least in part, that's why the B-word is still such a problematic term.
Definitely read the whole thing.

Oops forgot the linky: http://www.shakesville.com/2007/11/on-bitch-and-other-misogynist-language.html

[notadmblnd]

1. ive een called that more than a few time and honestly, it has never bothered me. In fact, I take it

as a compliment. Personally, I feel that when people have to resort to calling names, it means that they have no argument. If they have no argument, they have no power. If they have no power, then I am the one with the power. Make sense?

[redqueen]

2. It is equally plausible that some ethnic minorities aren't offended by racist insults.

This doesn't mean we declare racist insults to be acceptable.

Did you read the piece? Specifically #3



BTW thanks for posting this LS, I was wondering where I'd read that, about not calling misogynists misogynists.

[notadmblnd]

4. I suppose it is possible and I want to make clear that I never declared it to be acceptable.

My son is African American/Caucasian he is not offended when his "boys" call him the name that most African Americans find offensive when white people use it. Ive never heard a stranger call him any names but no stranger has ever had any reason to. Besides, they wouldn't know what to call him to demean him. He can pass for many ethnicities. When he was little people used to ask me what he was- and it wasn't because he looked like a girl, but that would often offended me. My reply was always, "he's a little boy"


One of the first nursery rhymes I remember my mother teaching us was the sticks and stones.... one. I guess I took it to heart. I'm not saying that you or others should not be offended. In my previous post, I expressed how I personally felt about name calling. If it doesn't work for you- so be it.

[redqueen]

5. That is very offensive... "what" is he...

I dealt with similarly insensitive comments from strangers regarding my kids.

I didn't mean to imply that you personally found the use of such words acceptable, but frequently when people see a woman, much less a feminist, stating such opinions, they will try to use that as an excuse to use such words themselves, defend the use by others, etc. So it was more for the benefit of anyone who might see your comment and attempt such rationalizations that I pointed that out. I should have made that clear in my first response, sorry.

[boston bean]

6. so?

[pennylane100]

3. If you are going to be a bitch,

be the best bitch you can be. That was always my motto, and it served me well.

[seabeyond]

7. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, ... spiteful or overbearing.

i have never desired to reach the acclaim of a B. though, for being in a position above a man and simply asking a question for clarification (my job) it was given to me.

no

not a chance in hell i would attempt to be the best b i could.

[pennylane100]

12. You have never worked in sales, in a all male environment.

[seabeyond]

14. you know what penny....

i was going to argue this until i put myself there and really listened to what you said.

gotcha.

[seabeyond]

8. i will read later, want to read all. good place to say about the c word thread

when du3 came into being there was a woman that used the c word. the jury let it go. more people than not were upset that the word stayed. skinner started a thread (i couldnt find it) where he addressed the issue and why he did not tos her. but thru the thread, i can almost know that he said the c word was off limits on du. period. the end. that it was tos'able. for whatever reason, few seem to remember this conversation. and now it seems that the community standard is ok in some areas. the c word has made it thru at least 4 juries. it is part of the over all disrespect toward women, feeding this board. and it is related to what is happening in men forum right now.... in my opinion. with little check and balance and the few working hard to create a hate and anger at this group.

the b word was just for "bitchin" about something. then we progressed to calling repug women a B. i have had two on jury call me a b and one was so funny it went to duzy. redqueen had a poster do it in a clever way. and not one person said anything. and iverglas had it done in a clever way, again, nothing done.

it seems the c word is going the same way.

does anyone else remember that thread of skinners where he said he asolutely was not changing his position on the c word and that a person would be tos'ed using it?

gotta tell you.... not remembering like i used to.

[Little Star]

9. Maybe it was this?.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4891622&mesg_id=4892841

Mon Sep-26-05 04:40 PM

Regarding the use of the word "cunt" on Democratic Underground.

We are getting a lot of alerts about this thread, and about other threads on this topic. In hopes of addressing some of these concerns, I want to explain the position of the DU administrators.

Normally we do not permit the word "cunt" to be used on this website. It is our opinion that the word is extremely degrading to women.

However, in the context of this discussion, we believe members should be permitted to use the word. In fact, it would be very difficult to have this discussion without using the word.

The admins of Democratic Underground believe it is clear that Matt Drudge used the phrase "cunning stunt" as a backhanded way to call Cindy Sheehan a "cunt." For that reason, we think it is only natural that some people here will use the word "cunt" in the context of this topic.

Rest assured that in other contexts, this word is still not permitted on Democratic Underground.

I hope you understand.

Skinner
DU Admin

[seabeyond]

10. nope. but interesting. no, this was january? on du3. a newbie came in and on a thread

about some woman killing her kid? she was yelling the woman was a c.

went thru jury and they let it stand.

people wanted her gone and skinner wouldnt tos her. he started a thread saying this was an EXCEPTION because of her emotional state but the word was NOT allowed on du.

[Little Star]

13. How bout this one?

Some people have asked me to weigh in on a recent post involving the c-word.
Mon Jan 16, 2012 By Skinner

The post was here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=173037

We discussed this in the MIR Team forum, and I'm going to repeat some of what I said in there.

As the Admin on the new DU, It is not my job to "correct" a jury decision, and it's not my job to cover up people's bad behavior. Deleting the post myself would create a precedent I don't want to create. My job is to ban people who violate the DU Terms of Service.

In the discussion in the MIR Team forum, opinion on whether the post was a TOS violation was split. There were a number of people -- including some women -- who do not believe the person who posted the message should be banned. The person who posted it is a woman who was unable to carry a child to term herself. (Or at least she claims to be, and as far as I know we have no reason to disbelieve her.)

The argument in her favor seems to be that she is a woman who has experienced personal pain, and has reason to feel strongly about the subject matter of the thread, and to cast her out of DU for her poor choice of words would be an overreaction. I suspect there are a number of DUers who agree, as the jury vote might suggest.

Nonetheless, that argument does not seem to be well represented in the Meta forum, where the argument "That word is never acceptable" seems to be carrying the day. And no surprise -- nobody wants to be seen as defending the c-word on DU.

I am a man. I do not know what it is like to be a woman. And I do not know what it is like for a woman to be unable to carry a child to term. And as a man, I do not feel that I am qualified to stand in judgment of this woman.

Perhaps ironically, if in this case I do not feel comfortable as a man passing judgment on this woman, I know I will be labeled a sexist who permits misogyny on my website.

But on the other hand, a man in a position of power passing judgment on a woman whom he does not know or understand feels more like sexism to me.

A member of the MIR Team reached out to the author of the post and suggested she self-delete. She has done so. I suspect she may think twice about using such language on DU again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124030452

[seabeyond]

15. that would be it. and we wanted him to make a clear line. and he wouldnt. thank you. since it

has gone thru 4 juries i know of, and no one has been tos'ed, i guess context is fluid.

thank you for this.

let the c word go on. i am so fuckin disgusted. and i was then, too.

[seabeyond]

16. i spent a half hour looking for this.

i am SO bad finding things.

thanks

[MadrasT]

11. That's the one I remember. n/t

[pennylane100]

17. I seem to recall that growing up in UK, that word was used a lot.

I had always thought of it just a derogatory description of female genitalia, the same as calling a guy a slang word for penis that also starts with p (I am not sure if it OK to spell out the word).

When I get frustrated, I tend to use bad language when there are no children around. My family used to say they had no idea where I got my foul mouth, and neither did I. One day a car cut me off on the freeway and I yelled that he was such a "c", unfortunately I had forgotten my three year old grandson was in the car. I was so panicked that he would remember and tell his mother but it was my lucky day because he was falling asleep.