Rape Porn Should Be Banned, Women's Campaigners Call

[redqueen]

Trigger warning

Of the top 50 accessible ‘rape porn’ sites found through a Google search, 78% advertise content depicting simulated rape of under 18-year-olds (“schoolgirl rape”). Of the top ten Google search results for ‘free porn’, half the websites host free rape pornography.

Sites include terms like ‘brutal rape’, ‘real rape’ and ‘savage rape’ in their web addresses.

...

"This is not about making a distinction between real and simulated rape and child sexual abuse, with the latter being perfectly lawful to possess as long as it is ‘fantasy’ and actors are over 18.

"Permitting the possession of depictions of sexual violence as entertainment glorifies, trivialises and normalises such abuse – at a time when government statistics estimate that 85,000 women and girls are raped each year.”

EVAW Coalition Director Holly Dustin said: “The government has promised to take action to prevent sexual and other violence before it happens and has taken some positive steps.

"However, if it is really serious about keeping its promise it must look at the cultural backdrop against which women and girls are abused. ‘Rape porn’ glorifies sexual violence and undermines the government’s work.

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/06/rape-porn-ban_n_3397116.html

[seabeyond]

1. depictions of sexual violence as entertainment glorifies, trivialises and normalises such abuse

in so many of the "men" films in the mainstream entertainment. it is everywhere.

this is such a huge ass duh... doesnt take much brain power at all to know the effects this has on society and men. BUT... because we are progressives for whatever reason we have to become brain dead on this subject and as stupid as a repug when discussing dinosaurs living with humans and the age of the planet.

it is that simple, it is that documented, it is that scientifically proven, YET we have to pretend it is NOT a reality.

[redqueen]

2. It's a no-brainer.

But yeah... Liberal feminists.

[seabeyond]

4. teenage boys, i have a 15 yr old that loves the music and media culture unlike my oldest.

i am now listening to so much of the music and seeing so many of the really fuckin' stupid movies made for teenage boys, that men just love. it is ALL about a continual reducing women to body parts. women are never whole, they are NEVER presented as a person, but the continued drumbeat of women only being parts to be used. driving son to a game last night, listening to another song, once again, woman body parts to be used, i told him.... there is a reason men must ALWAYS perceive women as body parts. and it is not empowering or a pretty picture for men.

someone on another thread (sideboobs) said ... i am attracted to women and not ashamed of it. well buddy, i am attracted to men, nor am i ashamed. and i do not reduce them to their dick... the men do that themselves. i do not reduce them to a wallet. he kinda proved the point of the OP. seen one sideboob, see them all. so why... once again, the need to see more sideboobs. the never ending reducing women to a part.

men cannot dominate women in any other means anymore. they cannot control them by money. they cannot control them not allowing them to vote, or work. they cannot control them by not allowing an education. they cannot control them by beating them.

the only way these pathetic men have a means of controlling women is the never ending, ..... body parts. always, she is a body part. not a human. not a person. a thing to be used.

a man in the zeta jones thread says

if he doesnt want her anymore, can i have her

i am sure how totally clueless he is to the offensiveness of that statement. how pathetic, disgusting, creepy, sad that statement is.

[redqueen]

6. Yeah, I half wanted to reply to that post.

All I could think to post was "women != body parts"... but I was sure a lengthy explanation would be necessary to make my meaning clear and quite frankly I don't have the patience anymore. I'm sick to death of oppressive groups expecting the oppressed groups to patiently and kindly spoon feed them this kind of shit. If you care, go learn. If you don't, fuck off. There are millions of people who do care and who come to the table with more than privileged ignorance, I prefer to engage with them.

[whathehell]

3. Yup.

because as Susan Brownmiller said in her groundbreaking book about rape, "Against Our Will",

"for liberals, the sin of seeming 'prudish or puritanical is the worst sin of all".

[seabeyond]

5. PRUDE. the tactic a few use consistently. accompanied by an unflattering picture of a woman.

to shame the women that dare to speak out.

hey... see, you TOO are this ugly and unwanted. the ONLY reason you would have a problem with rape porn as entertainment thru out our media.

mens need to control women thru their sexuality.

then they dare to argue they are the progressives? well, i guess i could argue ED as the reason for a mans need to denigrate women sexually. if we get to make up stories.

[whathehell]

12. Yeah, lame as it is.

"well, i guess i could argue ED as the reason for a mans need to denigrate women sexually. if we get to make up stories".

Good point, although, as I tell my husband, I think it should be called LD -- Limp Dick.

[SamReynolds]

7. So there would be no 'Rape Porn' where males were victims either?

I agree. I would love to eliminate the idea of rape from our society.

But then there's this pesky 'freedom of expression' thing that means that people 'depicting' rape while not actually doing it have the right to create the portrayal. That's BuLLShIT if you ask me.

Since we're on this, I'm sure we can also reduce the number of murders per year in our society by making the depiction of murder in films illegal as well. Realistic solutions like these have yet to be tested, but tested they should be so that we can prove once and for all that punishing the people that pretend to commit these crimes are guilty of causing them.

Absolutely.

[redqueen]

9. Do you jack off to depictions of murder? Do a search for "free porn" and let me know how much is

"murder porn"



FFS

[SamReynolds]

16. You're twisted.

You presume that anyone who questions your assumptions must therefore be depraved?
And you completely missed the point, apparently.

[seabeyond]

17. she did not miss the point and was much more succinct than your little game in your post.

she clearly stated the difference. porn is to get off on. so what are you bothered about? how does that make her "twisted". was she just too blunt about it or not "nice enough" when talking about the end result of rape porn, you know, getting off.

you seem to have been the one to miss the point. but, i do not see the need to call you a name because you missed her point.

[SamReynolds]

18. Game? My point wasn't clear enough?

Her point is irrelevant to me given I have never 'jacked off' in my life... for reasons I doubt you have the imagination to grasp.
Instead of addressing my point, she resorted to insults.
I'll spell it out for you: It's idiotic to think that banning a certain type of media is going to prevent a certain type of crime. If 'banning rape porn', made by consenting adults not actually engaging in rape, can 'reduce instances of rape', then obviously violence in movies causes violence in society too.

This knee-jerk, childish outcry does nothing to advance women's causes.

[seabeyond]

19. thank you so much for letting us women, who have experienced for years rape being entertainment for

men to jack off to, that we are knee jerk and childish. but wtf. i guess we should continue to sit quietly so the menz can continue on with jacking off to their rape porn.

no, what this article does is bring up the effects, the harm rape porn has not only on women, not only on children, but also on men and their sexuality.

or.... men coming in letting us know how silly we all are and truly harming our cause.

[SamReynolds]

20. I haven't seen any men tell you anything of the sort.

Your screed is no different than the cries of all the moral majority movements to ban whatever they decided 'caused harm to society'. There exists no legitimate evidence of ANY kind that 'rape porn' causes men to go out and rape.

I personally find it very distasteful, but I'm old enough and have seen enough to know not to judge those who watch it. They may be depraved perverts, or they may have inner demons they are working through. I don't know, and neither do you.
It's the mindless outrage that makes people shake their heads after reading these sorts of things.

YOU don't like something and are certain it is EVIL. Join the anti-choicers and the moral majority... because that's the category you've firmly placed yourself in. I'm sure you're in another category too. We'll find that out shortly.

[seabeyond]

21. This knee-jerk, childish outcry does nothing to advance women's causes.

you are not a man?

next you are going to say we swoon, clutch pearls and are frigid. very typical reply sam.

[SamReynolds]

22. But you assumed I was.

Because how could I possibly post criticism of this 'outrage du jour' if I wasn't?
That puts you pretty firmly in another category: 'Sexist'.

[seabeyond]

23. Fuck.... Lmao. You fail. You failed at every point and just continue in failure

Sam, I am.

[seabeyond]

27. Yada yada... Yada yada yada

[WCLinolVir]

31. Oh really, same grammar capabilities as well?

Please don't torture the English language. And don't bother referring to someone as a creature, in an obvious attempt to dismiss the relevancy of what they have to say.

[MadrasT]

24. This is a protected group.

Kindly take your "screed" elsewhere.

[SamReynolds]

26. Only women of a 'certain opinion' may post here.

I understand. I would be unhappy if someone pointed out that I was so very similar to any 'absolutists' like the teabaggers too.

I'm happily gone from this bed of 'screeching harpies'... and you all wonder why men think that of us.

[MadrasT]

38. I do not wonder, nor do I care.

Your difference of opinion is not the problem. Your disrespectful name-calling is.

[seabeyond]

40. you throw out a lot of sexist slurs as you claim you are all knowing on womens struggles and issues.

you fill your posts with misogynist verbiage to counter what someone says.

what does that make you? why would a single woman take you seriously?

[WCLinolVir]

29. The correlations you make don't hold water.

Mindless outrage?? Well I guess that says it all. The mindlessness is yours for writing that. And then you take the discourse to your logical conclusion, equating your digression to evil, superstition, ignorance and hysteria. Well it looks like you got there before anyone else. Congratulations. I'm sure you're in another category as well, and I don't need to wait to point it out, but I am too polite to qualify it here in this forum.

[chervilant]

33. What?!?

"It's the mindless outrage that makes people shake their heads after reading these sorts of things."?!?

You want resources? Try:

Ending the Silence (Thorne-Finch)

The Mermaid and the Minotaur (Dinnerstein)

Sex and Advantage (Chafetz)

Against Our Will (Brownmiller)

Blaming the Victim (Ryan)

Beyond Power (French)

This would be a good start. You might come to recognize that your defensive derision is a legacy of the oppressive socio-political construct we call patriarchy.

[SamReynolds]

35. Those are excellent opinions, I'm sure.

But it would be far more compelling if you could post Links to studies or research that show that "Rape Porn" causes actual rape.

If I had reason to take you seriously, I'd order each of those and read them all. But I don't, and for good reason.

[chervilant]

36. Yes, well, that's your choice.

You can do your own research, although I doubt you will. You seem comfortable with your derisive screeds, and unlikely to seek relevant information.

[WCLinolVir]

43. You don't because it would challenge you.

And you seem to have a strong investment in "being right".
And I may not be able to respond to your post which was hidden, because you resort to name calling, but as for "stringing together meaningless statements" and being a "creature of emotion over reason", I'd have to say your powers of self description are spot on.

[ismnotwasm]

39. Yawn

Go away.

[LanternWaste]

48. What then is the precise and relevant *ethical* difference...

What then is the precise and relevant *ethical* difference (rather than legal) between tolerating "rape porn" and tolerating underage porn?

Or do those who wish to maintain the prohibition on underage porn fall into your "anti-choicers and the moral majority" category also, and we should simply condone those who insist on watching underage porn as merely victims of inner demons?

[redqueen]

42. What are you even talking about? Since you obviously missed my point by miles,

I will restate it for you.

Masturbating to images of RAPE is fucking reinforcing the idea of RAPE as not just an acceptable practice but a super sexxxy practice that not only you but society in general thinks is OK to sexualize and normalize. It's idiotic to try to pretend that 'but it's just pretend!' is a rational defense when we all know damned well that far too many men than most seem willing to consciously admit will go to extraordinary lengths to convince themselves that not all rape is "really" rape and besides those college students that one time said this thing so who knows maybe she really wants it right so hey... what can you do?

Nobody does that to murder. There's not "murder porn" that people on DU will line up to defend as an OK practice.

Is that clear enough for you?

[mzmolly]

32. "So there would be no 'Rape Porn' where males were victims either?"

Is there an entrenched, male rape victim, porn issue I'm unaware of?

[Arcanetrance]

8. I'd support the ban on it it's an affront against humanity to try and glorify and normalize rape

Further more the people that watch it and get off on it need to seek mental help there;s nothing hot about rape.

[Mojorabbit]

28. I would too. In a heartbeat. nt

[ismnotwasm]

10. Yup

It feeds the myths/perceptions that woman are little more than sperm receptacles and men are unable to control themselves when it comes to sex. That and it equates sex and violence. I'll say it again; if I'm raped I haven't had 'sex' and rapists don't get to decide that for me.

[GeoWilliam750]

11. As a society

We enjoy violence as entertainment - How many "great" movies have no violence?

We enjoy watching the strong taking what they want from the weak, and cheer at the coliseum - and see not that the weak are us.

Historically, it seems that in the past women have been socialised to be weak - but that is changing.

Yes, in principal, I would support a ban on "rape porn". I would also support far less violence of all kinds being shown as entertainment.

[redqueen]

13. Entertainment in general vs. entertainment meant to facilitate an orgasm

There is an enormous difference between these two things.

Gratuitous simulated violence in entertainment is nowhere near the same issue as gratuitous violence simulated specifically for the purposes of sexual arousal and orgasm.

If someone has an issue with the glorification of violence in general in the world, that's an issue that deserves to be discussed. However that discussion does not belong here.

[seabeyond]

14. very good point. there is another eliminent in this people ignore. violence toward a human is

categorically wrong. in all ways looking at murder, we innately know it is wrong. to suggest allowing children to watch violence (i did not allow) is the same as letting a child see porn is incorrect. murder, violence to another is wrong. there is no if ands or buts. it is an easy one to teach a child.

sex is not wrong. sex is natural. we all have sex. so to pervert sex and condition the mind there is a blurred line. no one is going around saying sex is wrong. even with rape. that should be along with murder as wrong, we blur that saying fantasy.... the way our society manipulates a girls sexuality taking it away from natural. the way we manipulate our boys sexuality taking it away from naturally. then to throw in this garbage with an act that is so much a part of our life makes it very much different than seeing murder on tv. physical violence is not the same as perverting sex.

[chervilant]

37. Excellent point, sea. n/t

[gopiscrap]

30. I thought underage porn was a federal crime?

[redqueen]

41. The same 'logic' that says 'well it's only pretend rape, so it's ok!'

Is the same logic that says 'well those are just very young-looking women pretending to be minors, so it's ok!'

In neither case is it anywhere in the same universe as 'ok'.

[BainsBane]

44. As soon as the hosts are available

They should ban Sam Reynolds from this group. She clearly doesn't meet the SOP of the group.
It's one thing to disagree with the OP and another to hurl a string of sexist insults while voicing that disagreement.

[seabeyond]

45. meh... sam i am made herself clear on her position and how she feels about a womens voice.

she is an example of how patriarchy has as much of a hold on women as men and how sexist a woman can be right along side a man. there were some interesting references in her posts that had me wondering, how much has to be accepted in the degradation of women to be a part of the oppressors world. again, i will go to the "screeching harpie"? steinems quote that i love so much.

Because all these situations have made me wonder why is there no sense of female sisterhood, no sense of women speaking up for other women? Where is all the conflict and contention coming from? Recently, in an interview with the Observer, Gloria Steinem explained her thoughts on why people so often complain that groups of women can be catty, “do women compete for the favors of men? Yes. They’ve spent 5,000 years competing. It is true of any subordinated group. But once you get a sense of possibilities and shared experience, it becomes the most powerful community. I see a form of it when I travel. I’ll be walking through an airport, say, and my plane will be four hours late, and a woman cleaner will say: ‘Here, take these magazines I’ve collected’, or: ‘When I’m tired, I sleep in the closet over there. Would you like to use it?’ It’s the same with the flight attendants. It’s a floating community.”

So it seems that women, just as other oppressed groups, often perpetuate the same prejudicial thoughts or behavior that they’ve experienced in a way to separate themselves from the oppressed group and be accepted as part of the positive majority. Competition is formed in order to be ingratiated to those in positions of power or those seen as possessing positive characteristics. And yet, Steinem explains, when an opportunity is created for the sharing of experiences, a sense of community emerges. A sense of sisterhood, if you will.

I admit, I’ve had my own problems with the notion of sisterhood. It always seemed like this sense of camaraderie between women was based upon some opposition to men (granted that was probably a very ill conceived notion of sisterhood but it’s the one I understood). But in thinking about it now this sense of sisterhood is important in that it should lead us to a greater sense of community, which in turn leads us to a better understanding of the oneness of humanity as a whole. It might just be a first step. If women can see other women as more than just these characteristics assigned to them by culture and tradition then we can use this same outlook towards men.

*
But in response to this pattern of behavior, of underestimating and insulting women, so endemic to our culture and perpetuated by both men and women, and by social structures and institutions, lets promote this idea of sisterhood (men can promote it too!). Let’s promote this idea that groups of women as well as individual women aren’t dramatic, catty, manipulative gossips. They are human beings endowed with the capacity to love, reason, understand, acquire knowledge and serve their community. Let’s move beyond stereotypical tropes that have been perpetuated and supported by years of subjugation, lets question cultural norms of thought and behavior, and let’s support each other in the process, as we move towards an understanding of the oneness of humanity.



http://engenderingequality.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/sisterhood/

[BainsBane]

47. Women are taught to hate ourselves and each other

and some internalize those messages. I'm not an essentialist, so they bug me every bit as much as the men who take the same positions. I understand it comes from patriarchal social messages, but it doesn't mean I need to tolerate such women.

[duffyduff]

46. Agree.

This person is using the same talking points that have been used to justify porn since the 1970s, even though porn is far more violent, far more perverted, far more sexist now (thanks in large part to the internet) than the rather tame stuff of that era.

After having read a lot about the working conditions of people who are in the industry, I won't go within a hundred feet of the stuff. If I consumed it, I would be giving tacit approval for exploitation of others for profit.

The First Amendment has nothing to do with glorifying human exploitation.

[nomorenomore08]

49. Aside from possible ambiguity RE: what exactly should be "banned" and how the "ban" should be

enforced, I don't have a problem with the basic idea. As you say, there's a big difference between merely consuming violent entertainment, and actually climaxing to either real, or extremely realistic, depictions of violence. And certainly much of what we call "porn" nowadays does blur the line between mere sexual acts and violent, abusive ones. To the point that it becomes impossible, and perhaps in a sense meaningless, to tell "simulated" sexual assault from the real thing - and of course an actual depiction of a violent assault should be illegal, just like snuff films.