I've been thinking. Possible strategy for feminists on DU

[LiberalLoner]

It seems clear to me there are groups of people who are posting with the intent of pushing our buttons.

It seems to me, if we don't respond for awhile...say, a few months....their attempts to bait us will become more and more over the top as they become frustrated they can't easily get a rise from us.

At that point, the situation should become clearer to the admins exactly what is going on.

What do you guys think? Is there any possibility of hoping for things to change for the better or is it just time to go to Daily Kos, Smirking Chimp (I find that site to be closer in format to DU) or another progressive site and give up on DU?

[Sheldon Cooper]

1. Barring a Road to Damascus-type epiphany, things here are not going to change.

Sorry, but that's how I see it. There have been plenty of opportunities for change, and so far nothing. I see no reason to think that anything will improve.



I do recommend putting the lot of them on ignore. I've done that and it has improved my time here.

[LiberalLoner]

3. There seem to be so many of them though, and new ones all the time too. We are only

Allowed just so many ignores, so...

[Sheldon Cooper]

6. I think you can ignore as many people as you like.

But the number of people you can exclude from being a juror on your posts is limited. I forget what the number is. The trolls and losers who frequent this place really aren't the problem. It's the top-down nonchalance about women's issues that is the problem. If that doesn't change, nothing will change. Not holding my breath...

Liberal Loner - you are such a kind and generous person. You have been targeted by a gang of bullies who fear no retribution because they know that none is forthcoming. You do not deserve this, not at all, and that is plain to any person of goodwill who is observing it Take care of yourself - I don't really frequent Kos but maybe I'll go there and look you up. Take care of yourself!

And for the alert stalkers and the jury, go ahead and hide this. We all know that EVERYONE reads hidden posts, so my message will get seen either way. Have at it.

[LiberalLoner]

9. Thank you so much. I am so sorry for what is happening to all of us.

I'm sorry too that I lost my cool and made all of us look bad.

I'll be at smirking chimp and daily kos if you guys decide to hang out there some.

Hugs to all of you guys.

[hlthe2b]

17. ^^This^^

I have to think that Skinner will eventually see what is going on--(cup half full and all that...)

I really want/NEED to remain positive because it is unthinkable that, after women were largely responsible for turning back the most extreme teabagger candidates in yesterday's elections, that progressive women, feminist progressive women should be so disrespected and disregarded on this, the most active of Democratic political forums.


I do agree that there is a desire by some to bait and when we react viscerally to it (which we surely have every right to do), it is only rewarding those who wish to antagonize us. What the best alternative might be, I don't know, but I surely do not wish to lose our progressive feminist voices here. That I know for sure.

[LiberalLoner]

19. All I know is, I will not support any business that appears to me

To be anti feminism. And that is my assessment of this site at this moment.

[boston bean]

8. Actually, I wish that they weren't put on ignore.

Many times one needs to see what is being said and speak up. I know for ones health sometimes, it feels necessary... but you are just shielding yourself from unpleasantness, not really stopping it, and it has the same effect as what the OP suggests, just stop responding.... It doesn't work or help. I say this understanding why one puts persons on ignore, and if they feel they need to, I get it. I'm not criticizing, just voicing my thoughts on the matter. Plus if you have them on ignore, you can't serve on their juries.

[WCLinolVir]

2. I have noticed that there is sometimes an extremely agressive

faction here. And I don't see them posting for a broad range of issues. Only specific ones. Do these posters have the same MO?

[boston bean]

4. What "specific ones" are you speaking of?

Need to know what issues you are speaking of before I can comment.

[boston bean]

5. I've done it, doesn't work.

I just see the same type of posts but no retort. It all stands, stays and is welcome.

With the attention to it, I think we have a better chance of affecting some type of change. It might be slow and we might not get it at all. But I can't in good conscience allow women and their issues to be whipping posts with no response and remain a member. My voice at least allows me to show displeasure and find peeps who feel the same.

[LiberalLoner]

7. True. But I'm thinking, there are equally bad posts left standing at say, free republic,

And we don't go there and bang our heads trying to respond to those.

If DU is a lost cause for women, I keep coming to the conclusion, it's time for me to walk away. It makes me sad but I don't see any way of making DU a place where those of us who care about feminist issues can remain free of coordinated attacks. For me at least, the attacks are extremely upsetting and I lose my cool. For me, DU has become a place where I don't feel safe.

[boston bean]

16. I can see what you are saying. I definitely HEAR what you are saying

I get torn on this all the time. It's up to each person I guess and how they feel at the time.

I just think of all the women who worked to get our rights for centuries..... what they faced and never gave up.

Then I think WTH am I doing here!

[ancianita]

25. Well, I'm still in because I want the party to remain a big tent. Forcing equality of opinion and

engagement is what women will always have to do with the easily threatened types. I won't walk away. I've been in politics for the long game which, for women, is rarely safe or comfortable.

[ismnotwasm]

10. I rarely get baited, as I rarely post out of here

A few times I've gotten into those ridiculous back and forth exchanges. I only do it here, if the poster is here just to stir shit, or is picking on a friend, I only do it "out there" for two reasons. There are posters I thought maybe were not misogynists, and I wanted to see if they were worth interacting with, or some thread that has devolved into outright sexist bullshit. I have my own system of 'ignore' which involves ignoring persons. I do hide threads.

I do feel bad for ones who wonder off the greatest page to here not realizing it's a feminist group. Well, actually it's kind off funny to see the attitudes that come off.


The "lets fuck with the feminists crowd" range from juvenile idiots to outright creepers. I think they are a loud minority. More problematic, is systematic ignorance of feminist values, and I'm talking 'Big Tent' feminism. Feminist don't agree on everything, but certain areas such as rape and rape culture we come down together.

No I don't think there will be change for the better. And that's incredibly sad.

[Sheldon Cooper]

20. Your third paragraph really resonates with me.

My sig line reflects my feelings on this issue, and this issue alone.

The "lets fuck with the feminists crowd" range from juvenile idiots to outright creepers. I think they are a loud minority. More problematic, is systematic ignorance of feminist values, and I'm talking 'Big Tent' feminism. Feminist don't agree on everything, but certain areas such as rape and rape culture we come down together.

I have no doubt that there are countless people here who agree with us, but they will not speak up for us. Maybe they are afraid that the rage will be turned against them, maybe they don't know how to respond, maybe they just don't care all that much. But we know where the real damage is: it's not with the trolls who love to bait, it's with the friends who sit silently and watch it.

You know who you are.

[redqueen]

21. Yep.

I'm with LL now.

We have antifeminist MRAs and their sex pozzie cheerleaders free to act like fools, which is nothing new but it is sickening to see it go on with so many good liberals ignoring it.

The rape apologia threads, the posts defending revenge porn, all the dumbass MRA bullshit, the "poke the feminists" assholery... and the refusal to admit that changes to the TOS are needed...

And now we also have white men comparing women of color to fucking KKK members for daring to be opposed to the sex industry.

So yeah, fuck this place.

Not wasting a minute more of my time or contributing to one more click.

[Squinch]

11. After having to defend the pro-choice position AGAIN in cali's thread, against

someone insisting that pro-choice people "dishonest" because she doesn't agree with them,

After pitbullgirl's question (about why women's civil rights are treated differently here than the civil rights of other groups) has languished unanswered in ATA for a week now,

After being told that it's OK with DU for people to advocate co-opting our bodies against our will, as long as they have manners,

I'd have to say, it's over. This isn't going to change. And the "stay around and try to fight the good fight" idea feels to me like going back for more abuse and hoping things will be different.

I'm going to take a break and see if anything changes, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going to Kos from now on.

[Squinch]

12. One thing I will point out, before I go:

It is one thing to let your star expire, but that doesn't really do anything.

HOF is a source of many, many hits to this site, which in turn, I am sure is the source of a great deal of ad revenue.

HOF issues tend to be among the ones that create huge, active threads and long conversations. HOF members post a great deal of content each and every day. HOF activities are the reason for the existence of some posters, whose purpose is to refute any and all HOF ideas.

If HOF wereto become inactive as you suggest, if crickets were the only ones posting here for a while, for months, I think the pocketbook would take a pretty good hit. Which might be the only thing that will change the position that DU has taken on the un-importance of the civil rights of 51% of the population.

[seabeyond]

14. point. i am doing an OP on this later today. and it goes further. the democratic party and DU NEED

our voice. they may not think so. but, if they thought it thru, really looked at it from different angles, they would realize they NEED us. we are vital to the democratic party and we are vital to du. so, though they may think life would be easier if we were gone, they would realize what an important part we are to du in time. i agree. not just about the money, either.

[Squinch]

23. But I think the only way to prove the point is if we all go silent for a few months. So on

second thought, I'm agreeing with Liberal Loner.

[LiberalLoner]

15. Great post, Squinch. I do notice that we are always involved in the posts most

Frequently commented on.

I really do think we should all leave DU en masse but I respect differing opinions.

[LiberalLoner]

13. I've also signed up at The Nation which seems like a good progressive site.

Just throwing out alternative sites where we can keep up on the issues and comment without fear of being attacked.

I wouldn't recommend huffpo as the posts there seem about 50% right wing.

[LiberalLoner]

18. I paid the $9.50 online subscription fee for 52 weeks

Got an email, excerpting one paragraph here:


The Nation sponsors its own online social network -- a space where Nation readers gather to discuss and debate political issues, share activist strategy with like-minded people, post their own blog comments and receive advance information on upcoming Nation projects and campaig



I will check it out.

You know, I was thinking, I have 1,600 twitter followers right now, roughly. I used to tweet links to DU stories very frequently. Like a dozen stories a day. I wonder if that was a boon for DU traffic?

Now I will be tweeting links to daily kos and the Nation instead.

[BainsBane]

24. sounds promising.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. I use trash thread a lot. motto: "Trash Thread, Apply liberally." Not in GD

but, in the lounge where misogyny is not only condoned/tolerated but, actually instigated by "women".

This makes my DU experience much more pleasant and allows me to save my energy for GD where we might actually be educating some people.

I try to pick my battles so that we may win the war

I refuse to waste my time on those that refuse to give a rat's ass about this cause.

Dust off my feet and move on to those who are receptive to learning and caring.

Sometimes I think the Lounge has been infiltrated by republican women. Also, I have to respect the fact that The Lounge is the official place on this site for stupidity. No other section of this site should it be tolerated.

[MadrasT]

26. I made a few rules for myself about a year ago.

a) I stay away from the ones who seem like they enjoy arguing and/or just want to push buttons

b) If a thread seems like pure flame-bait, into the trash it goes. No reply from me.

c) I speak my mind when I feel like I need to on other threads.

d) I will NOT get into a back-and-forth argument with anyone where I reply more than twice if I feel like we are not having a good-faith conversation.

In many cases, I post my opinion/thoughts and then do not revisit the thread at all. If someone comes back at me with a snarky, jerky reply, I just completely ignore them. (Do not respond.) I have had people DU-mail me with extra snark when I won't engage with them in-thread, and I just delete the mail as soon as I see what it is. No reply. Won't give them the satisfaction and I really don't give a shit what someone who has already proven themselves to be a jerk has to say. I am just not interested in reading more of their "opinions". (If mail is truly abusive, I would alert on it.)

My voice will not be silenced, but I will not roll around in the mud with jackasses.

The repeated dismissal (by admins) of issues that concern me (and many other feminists here) has led me to not renew my star.

I still value DU because it is the best news aggregator ever, and I truly enjoy many of the folks who post here.

I refuse to let a few assholes ruin it for me, and I will not be silenced.

[seabeyond]

27. that is a good list. and it looks good on you.

me? lol. i just dive in, maybe even from the high dive. can even do a cannon ball.

[BainsBane]

28. Excellent suggestions

I am going to try to follow your example.