This was enlightening to me today in context of things discussed in GD -

[Tuesday Afternoon]

“Fiction is the Truth inside the lie.” ― Stephen King

[NYC_SKP]

1. Feeling pretty confident that none of these would pass the Bechdel Test.

...

/bech·del test/ n.

1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man

http://bechdeltest.com/

Not sure about what went on in GD today, however.

what did i miss?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. ugh.

check your PM.

[NuclearDem]

7. Katniss and Prim in Hunger Games.

Or Katniss and Rue.

[nomorenomore08]

20. Certainly not a bad idea in general. But what if the film simply has very few characters?

[NYC_SKP]

21. Good point, it's an imperfect test. A better measure would be to also look at male roles.

IOW what if we apply the same criteria but reverse the sex assignation?

Indeed, fewer characters could present fewer opportunities for the indicated criteria to occur.

[nomorenomore08]

25. Otherwise though, it is a useful approach. Shows how people are presented or juxtaposed

in relation to each other. Especially people of opposite genders.

[Gravitycollapse]

3. I watched The Hunger Games and thought it actually conveyed a rather backwards message.

I cannot even remember the plot now but I do remember thinking it wasn't the pro-feminist critique others considered it to be.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. I fell asleep at The Hunger Games ... It is more the quote by Stephen King that gave me

the epiphany ... not sure if I can put it in writing ...

something along the lines of rape porn being fiction BUT There is TRUTH in fiction ...

and then I can not formulate why this is the very reason it should be outlawed

because IT is the TRUTH in THE FICTION.

am I making any sense whatsoever ...

can you follow what I am trying to say ...

[Gravitycollapse]

5. Of course. Absolutely, the truth in violent pornography is that it is a reflection of society.

I'm reminded of this...

T.V., is it the reflector or the director ?
Does it imitate us
or do we imitate it

It's both, in actuality. Violent porn is both a reflector of violent society as well as a generator of cultural violence.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. yes.

Last edited Tue Nov 26, 2013, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)

this is what I am driving at. am I correct that there are studies showing that sociopaths are on the rise?

I would go as far as to say that TV/Media contributes to it.

[NYC_SKP]

8. I don't know but would bet that there are studies that suggest that sociopathic crimes are rising.

Changes in reporting and recordkeeping over decades and what constitutes "sociopath" could impact reliability of these studies but I can't see how the acceptance and mass distribution of sexualized violence and rape could NOT lead to more incidents of crime and a general erosion of the mutual respect that would otherwise characterize a culture.

I'm convinced that people are inherently good and helpful and that negativity and hatred and fear and such are all learned behaviors. Knowingly or not, our culture encourages violence and especially violence in a sexual context against women.

I was talking with GF about this youtube that shows what I think would ordinarily be quite natural behaviors in boys, but the behaviors of compassion and defense of the weak are discouraged in our culture.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. that gives me hope

"The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them."


http://www.givesmehope.com/

[NYC_SKP]

11. What a great website!

Thanks for the link, and, yes, I thought the same thing about that youtube of boys being men.

It gives me hope!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. you're welcome

Thanks for the video

[ismnotwasm]

13. Oh too cool

That is really neat--thank you

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. you're welcome

[ismnotwasm]

14. I loved that

Damn straight I cried

[NYC_SKP]

15. Pretty heartwarming, right?

Yeah, I got kind of teary, too. I'm grateful that it was recorded and can be shared.

[ismnotwasm]

16. Yeah it was a nice change

From what we usually hear about. We need more stories like this so that behavior is the "new normal"

[nomorenomore08]

22. I don't disagree with your larger point. But isn't violent crime in general about half what it was

20+ years ago, in this country at least?

Of course we have huge, glaring cultural problems, of which gendered/sexualized violence is one - and to me that would include not just violence against women, but against LGBT people as well.

[NYC_SKP]

23. Yes, to the extent that we are measuring the same targets using the same tools, which we are not.

So there's a whole lot of margin of error there.

I do feel that there is more, or at least a different form of, despair out there.

I could just be projecting, however.

[nomorenomore08]

26. It's been said that the smaller proportion of young males in the population largely accounts

for the drop in violent-crime rates. Which makes sense, since the rate has stayed down in recent years despite bleak economic times.

I'm a younger male (29) myself BTW. And I certainly know collective despair when I see it. Things really are fucked in many ways.

[NYC_SKP]

27. That makes sense, fewer younger per capita.

Food for thought.

Good luck youngster! I hope the thawing methane hydrates don't take us all out.

I did my best!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. The quote from Stephen King:

"Kids, fiction is the truth inside the lie, and the truth of this fiction is simple enough: the magic exists."

Two of my other favorites:
"Fiction reveals truth that reality obscures." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain

One of the last lines in the movie Lord of War: Yuri Orlov - "I am not a fool. I know that just because they needed me that day didn't mean they wouldn't make me a scapegoat the next." (The Yuri Orlov character is based in part on disputed stories of Viktor Bout, convicted last year in federal court on conspiracy charges, 7 years after the movie.)

The 1999 movie Enemy of the State described the NSA spying on private citizens with the US. Maybe it wasn't fiction. A quote from the character Thomas Reynolds - "The only privacy that's left is the inside of your head. Maybe that's enough."

There is no doubt that the media, which peddles both fact and fiction, frequently also influences them. IMHO, mainstream average folks haven't changed much but the media is serving as inspiration to small numbers of people with 'tofu' personalities to become Rambo terminator bourne killers, Neo-rapists and grand theft thieves. These won't usually be to guy next door unless you live by a Holmes or Lanza.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. thanks for the quotes and the opinions and your

assessment of how societal "norms" and "mores" can absolutely sway that small minority subset of humans that are susceptible (for whatever reasons) to a sociopathical tendency that can manifest itself in a myriad of ways.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. you're welcome

Have a nice Thanksgiving

Lots of folks look at the world as being made up of the good and the evil. I think good and evil are in everyone.

I've seen this referred to as originating from Eastern Orthodox Christian, Native American and (I think) Tibetan. (Among others)

One day a holy man told his follower about the spiritual battle that goes on inside people. He said, "The battle is between two wolves inside us all. One is evil; anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good...It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The follower thought about it for a moment and asked his spiritual mentor "Which wolf wins?"

The holy man simply replied, "THE ONE YOU FEED".

I think a leader today does better to set an example than to "win" at any cost, impose his will in public or in secret.

[nomorenomore08]

24. The "wolf" parable puts things concisely and perfectly. We all can and should encourage our own

better natures, and as much as possible, other people's too.