Theorizing law - regarding rape

[redqueen]

[BainsBane]

1. Assholes. Rape itself is violence

What an awful judge.

[redqueen]

2. Oh but not always!

Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding, don'tcha know.

Cause some women say "no" but they really mean "yes", and how are and these poor, poor men supposed to know the difference? Please understand, BainsBane... these poor men could be simply trying to make these women's dreams come true!

They're not violent! Maybe just a little bit pushy. Maybe just a little coercive... but hey! Can you blame them?! Men have NEEDS. If we force them to ejaculate without a woman to masturbate on/into... well that there is just downright inhumane!

(Trust me, I know, cause I learned it on DU. )

[BainsBane]

3. It can't be rape because one Lacrosse player was falsely accused

Once. Therefore every acquittal and refusal to prosecute proves that rape isn't a problem because women are liars. Trust me. I know because I learned it on DU.

[redqueen]

8. Yes, better that all rapists should go free, than one innocent man should be jailed.

Explains a lot about the fact that so many rapists never see a day in court, let alone jail.

[smirkymonkey]

32. This place can be so depressing sometimes.

[xulamaude]

7. Something I learned today is that

all of this "initiating" that men are supposed to do is confusing and tiring and basically not fair.



ETA - another one of these:

[redqueen]

9. WTF?

Well heaven forbid that nobody is overly interested in them. What an absolute travesty that they have to actively seek out attention.

I swear, those types honestly believe that women just have to sit back and wait, and they'll inevitably be approached by potential suitors seeking romantic relationships.

Unfortunately I have encountered that one particular brand of idiocy so many times. It's fucking astounding how stupid some people can be. It'd be one thing if it was all young, naive men spewing that crap, but sadly that is often not the case.

[BainsBane]

10. I think most of the young ones know better

Notice that many of the men who post in HOF are in their 20s and 30s. The phenomenon you describe is a relic of the last century, on the part of men who resent gains women have made. They insist we have enough already and just need to stop griping. They like the feminists who seek their approval and don't dare challenge them. Feminists like those who post in HOF just don't know how to stay in our place. Nonetheless, time marches on and will eventually leave them in the dust.

[MadrasT]

11. I have male friends in their 40s and 50s who insist that

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2013, 11:50 AM - Edit history (2)

this is the case, and furthermore, that if men did not aggressively pursue women, "nobody would ever hook up because women are so passive".

They also sit around complaining about how hard it is to find "nice" women who aren't pain in the ass.

Methinks there may be a correlation between their general attitude about women, and their chronic inability to form meaningful lasting relationships with women.

Once one was complaining about how men have to do all the initiating and how hard it was and I said "so just stop. don't do it."

He looked at me, horrified, and said "But then we would never connect with women, at all, ever."

I said "Honey, trust me, the species will not die out if men stop playing at being PUA."

Aggressive men are so unappealing to me.

[xulamaude]

12. "So just stop."

Don't like it? Don't do it. Isn't what they keep telling us to do about porn?

[MadrasT]

13. If all the women one dates result in "problem relationships"...

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2013, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

...I don't think the root cause is "I can't find a decent woman".

Not when one is 40 or 50 years old.

[redqueen]

19. "But then we would never connect with women, at all, ever."

And?

As if every guy with stunted (if not entirely backwards) thinking has a right to a 'connection with a woman'...

[BainsBane]

24. Why do men always have to come on to women first?

They don't. If a man is actually interested in getting to know a woman as a person and talks to her as such, things can develop quite naturally. Women ask men out or make their intentions very clear in all kinds of ways. On the other hand, if a guy is a self-pitying misogynist, he's not going to come off positively to women. I know this may shock some, but women actually like men who like them!

[MadrasT]

4. That makes me physically ill.

What a sick, fucked up system.

ALL RAPE IS VIOLENT BY DEFINITION.

ALL RAPE.

ALL OF IT.

[mercuryblues]

5. If women

want men's help in fighting against rape, they need bring back patriarchy and ask nicer.

Trust me, I learned this on DU

[BainsBane]

6. Oh. yes. And that means not saying anything bad

about rape porn. I also was told I didn't ask "nicely" enough.

[nomorenomore08]

21. Yeah, because either they're under our protection/control, or we just don't give a fuck about them.

It's one or the other, kids...

[ismnotwasm]

14. Nasty that

Part of the problem with rape prosecution I think is left over from the perception or legal actuality of who "owns" the woman, or to put it more bluntly who owns her sexuality. Because she certainly doesn't during rape trials.
(this is why I hate when people think there is a sexual component to rape because penetration or orgasm of some sort is involved; if I'm raped, I for damn sure didn't just have any kind of have 'sex', and it's always, always gong to be 'forcible' --anything less allows rapist to set definitions. What the fuck should they be allowed to do this, legally, or any other way?)

Rape defense cannot allow autonomy for women; there are always qualifiers such as "forcible rape". Or what, exactly constitutes "violence"

Now someone educated in jurisprudence that would disagree, would no doubt point out this or that in legalese or compare rape to other crimes, not allowing that rape is the most gendered of crimes, that it is a culture, that cultural rape acceptance is written in our very laws, laws developed from times when women had NO autonomy, but were reliant on spouses or fathers.

[BainsBane]

15. Did you all see

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2013, 08:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Someone used Prism's thread about his sexual assault to try to win points over rape porn. He couldn't even bother to express sympathy. I've had my disputes with Prism, but I stand fully behind any rape survivor in their recovery.

[ismnotwasm]

16. I did see that

One of the reasons I'm staying out of that thread just because those comments were so out of line.

[MadrasT]

17. That was a new low. n/t

[xulamaude]

18. Of course I saw that -

and they say we're (hysterically) ideologically driven....

[redqueen]

20. Fucking hell.

Every time I think certain people around this place can't sink any lower...

[ismnotwasm]

22. Oh they're all over the place

Acting the prodigious innocents, stirring shit about rape porn or Feman or what the fuck ever all over the place.

They really must feel threatened. I crack up every time I see their shit. So--- Freudian

[BainsBane]

23. and here I am, guilty of "putting DU through" an ordeal

all because I posted a couple of threads about rape porn. God forbid they should be exposed to a point of view they don't agree with. And then--horror of horrors--I expressed appreciation for men who prefer real women over porn. You think sex with a human being is better than porn? Who do you think you are?!!! You are disrespectful to "humans." Evidently they cannot conceive of "humanity" existing outside of capitalist commodity fetishism. Jesus. What a bunch of self-pitying whiners.

[ismnotwasm]

26. Fuck 'em

Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2013, 02:52 AM - Edit history (1)

They are Anachronisms whose time is (too slowly) slipping away.

[LanternWaste]

31. there's a subconscious realization of that which scares the crap out of the local Australopithecus

"Anachronisms whose time is (too slowly) slipping away..."

I think there's a subconscious realization of that which scares the holy crap out of a lot of the local Australopithecus, hence the ugliness.

Cornered, out-dated, and in-the-way of progress makes for a mean, mean person.

[painesghost]

28. Oh that's what all the fuss has been about.

Now some of the other statements I have read make since. What was the original post? Still the dude that brought up this discussion on a thread about actually rape was out of line.

[BainsBane]

29. I didn't do the original post on the subject

It began with a story posted by someone else on a law banning possession of illegal rape porn in the UK. When I and some others said we didn't find the move objectionable because we don't like rape porn, no more than we like rape, all hell broke loose. I posted a bit from Noam Chomsky on porn and a couple of other thread. More then a few shrinking violets were incensed that I had the nerve to voice my views. Because I consider rape prevention more important that guys getting off watching porn of women being raped, I have been called a misandrist troll. The irony is incredible.

[painesghost]

30. oh. n/t

[BainsBane]

25. Now there is another one

Using that thread to claim the absence of recs means people insist male rape doesn't happen. Of course he can't bother to express concern or even acknowledge the OP's trauma. It's all about him.

[ismnotwasm]

27. That reminds me--I was going to post a thread on prison rape

Horrible stories. See if I can find it