As a man let me apologize

[MattBaggins]

I am ashamed at some of the behavior being displayed in the threads about the boy being punished for kissing a girl who didn't want it.

My jaw has been hitting the floor.

[BainsBane]

1. I haven't read those

Between rape porn and blaming Julian Assange's victims, I can't take anymore. I have no doubt it's horrific.

[seabeyond]

2. me. too. it has been so mind blowing in so many ways. thank you... as a man, for being

perplexed right there with me. i hear ya. truly mind blowing.

two boys.... i raised two boys. last one almost out of the system. wasnt that hard.

the sad thing, being so part of the kids lives growing up. i watched the kids that were not parented. i saw their need for parenting. the need for boundaries. i saw how hard it made their life. and now, all these years, i see them struggling to make it. trying to learn the things the parents have a responsiiblity to teach these kids, young. so they can navigate thru society with an opportunity to success. i really do not understand this mentality.

[boston bean]

3. I think there was a conversation to be had over whether it was

'Sexual' harassment. My opinion is no, it's not possible for a six year old to sexually harass. However excusing the behavior as normal and fine, even after the facts came out that this was more serious than a one time kissing of her hand, was strange. Then the attacks on persons who could understand that even if this girl was not sexually harassed the effects on her were the same as one who has experienced sexual harassment, left much to be desired. Uncomfortable, afraid, violated, powerless. Whether this was or was not sexual was besides the point. the acts and the effect of it do fit how the victim feels. Much like someone who is bullied, male or female.

The boy has a case of bad parenting. The school should have left it at harassing.

[seabeyond]

7. they should have. i do not think it was a concerted effort to label sexual harassment. it was a

note in the file to differentiate it from the other discipline he had received for rough housing. i think they used an adult word as descriptive. i do not think it was any more than that. the kid was not given sexual harassment from the school. it was the mother that gave him that word. the school approached it in age appropriate terms of boundaries and unwanted touching. i really do not see the sexual harassment even as an issue. it was not a label. it will not follow the kids. just a note, in the report, to document.

[boston bean]

12. Sea any parent that takes something like that public

Was not thinking of her child. She was thinking of herself.

[seabeyond]

14. i agree. a nd that is what i said. i would not have has a problem with

that in the boys file. i am pretty ok with it not being used as labeling. purely descriptive. but what i would not have done is ever, ever given that word to my son. ever. that one really bothers me. why would you let your child know that is the word, adult word that they used to describe the behavior. agreed.

[IdaBriggs]

39. I disagree with this.

I believe that people who quietly allow injustice enable it to happen to others.

I think the mother did the right thing by subjecting this to scrutiny and public ridicule, and (from what I read) she did request that the records be changed from the adult "sexual harassment" to something else.

The fact that the district did change it means a) she was in the right on this part of the issue, and b) no other elementary school child in that district is going to be inappropriately labeled going forward during this normal stage of developmental.

NOTE: I firmly believe appropriate boundaries should have been enforced. My opinion; your mileage may vary.

[boston bean]

40. There was another way for her to seek justice.

Not putting her 6 year old sons name and face out for public consumption.

[IdaBriggs]

41. From what I read (and I have not read *everything* on the topic)

she *did* ask that the phrasing be changed, and escalated through the local chain of command before going public.

The fact her child is young and adorable (yep, I am prejudiced - lol!) I believe really cemented the ridiculous nature of the *adult* charge. Again, this is not to say he should have been misbehaving so badly, but as I said, the *next* kid will hopefully not have to deal with that label, either. (How many others have it in their file because people were too embarrassed to kick up a fuss? We'll never know.)

Hopefully this will be a brief "thirty second story" in his own life (where his mother stood up for him) and he begins to behave appropriately.

I personally believe the misuse of "sexual harassment" both minimizes it when it occurs, and twenty years from now could have been used against him (based on the craziness of surveillance and privacy issues). Letting something like that stand in a document kept in public records would have been, in my opinion, more of an inappropriate thing to do by the mother than a few minutes of local news / internet fame. One can hope he remembers that people can make a difference, and again I believe the policy was examined by the local district and sanity restored.

I think treating elementary students as if their actions are criminal ("5 year old throws temper tantrum/ends up in hand cuffs"; "7 year old throws spitball/ends up in jail"; "6 year old chews sandwich into shape of gun/gets suspended"; etc.) is not good for anyone from the general members of society to the children involved. Some of my own horror is shaped by the over-reaction (especially in Florida - no idea why so many of the crazy stories seem Florida centric) in these situations, along with my "give me a break!" belief on the topic.

I have 6-year old twins; my daughter has been "engaged" and has multiple "boyfriends" (insert eye roll), while my son is completely on a different level socially, and spent a crazy amount of time in the last few months gleefully using "foul and inappropriate language" once he discovered it made adult heads explode. This phase was embarrassing to us, but since he usually indulged when he was *not* in our presence (and had not hit the ability to understand long-term consequences, which his sister had figured out a while ago) there were definitely some "parental challenge" moments involved. But if someone wanted to put "sex offender" in his file because he was using "foul and inappropriate language" at age 6 (when he doesn't even understand what the words mean), well, I can see this momma going crazy, too!

Teaching and parenting challenges are sometimes just about personalities, and opinions vary. Everyone gets to screw their kids up in unique and special ways.

I am going to stick with "not sexual harassment" - I've met a lot of pre-school/kindergarten/first graders at this point, and I just don't see *that* as an issue. Bothering, annoying, torturing, driving people around them crazy -- yup. "Sexually harassing" - uh, no.

Again, your opinion may differ.

[boston bean]

42. read what I have posted to determine where you and I disagree.

Nice long post, and a defense of how you feel,without really taking into consideration anything I have written. Thereby leaving the impression that I have said things I did not say.

We do disagree, good parents don't magnify these things in front of the entire world, leaving their son or daughter open to read about this shit on the internet when they are growing up into adult years.

[IdaBriggs]

43. Agreed - apparently where we disagree (which was I jumped into the discussion)

was whether or not "good parents go public." <== I think she did the right thing getting the policy changed EVEN if she had to go public.

I think it was a good thing to do *after* she exhausted reasonable possibilities, which I thought she did.

I also don't think it is a bad thing to be "public" with such things, while I think permanent records of "sexual harassment" are bad.

I also believe the mother saved other parents and their children from being mislabeled in this fashion.

I hope the son grows up to be inspired to know that (even though it started with him misbehaving), good things can still happen by getting stupid policies that damage lives changed.

Oh, and I sympathize with trying to get young children to do what you want them to, since they are each unique and sometimes have different opinions than ours. I provided my children as personal examples.

The rest was friendly chatter.

[seabeyond]

44. what about the girl... the mom encourage that behavior with the son saying the girl wanted it.

the mom TAUGHT the boy to sexually harass whether you want to use the term or not. you have this "cute" boy the hero. a mom that did not draw a line for her son the "good" mom. and you totally ignore a girl on the playground that was aggressed upon and not allowed her freedom over a period of time, creating a cutsey story.

that mom and son can "giggle" about the story and accomplishments and the mom standing up for him over thanksgiving for years to come.

how about the girl... what do you think she will carry with her, for years to come?

truly amazing.

he was not charged with anything, your second post up. words matter.

the school did not give him sexual harassment. the mom did.

it is not something that sticks with him for life or follows him, no matter the paranoia people want to create.

and nothing about sexual offender or sexual offender list.

you all are outraged over the wording that went into the report. yet all kind of wording is being thrown into this story, for sure

[redqueen]

45. I'm confused as to how the bully seeming "young and adorable" to someone

Could possibly have anything to do with anything.

:wtf'

Interesting to see how readily the "he said" taken as gospel and the "she said" treated as suspect.

Not to mention all the 'boys will be boys', 'she wanted it' crap.

[seabeyond]

46. yes. me, too. floored. no thought of the girl. literally, none. but the boy was cute. nt

[redqueen]

48. Reminded me of this from role reboot, which I see was posted on DU

How We Teach Our Kids That Women are Liars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024082855

[seabeyond]

47. i swear it is the need to wrap it up all pretty with a tidy bow to be able to digest. this is what

leads to the steubenville mentality. even with video. it has to be the girl and the boy is the hero.

[Squinch]

4. I haven't read them, but I am so happy to see your post. I knew an issue would come along

that showed, very publicly, the rampant sexism and non-support for women's issues that goes on around here, and people would sit up and take notice. Thanks for stating your observation on this.

[boston bean]

5. I probably should have added what u said....

Rampant sexism and non support for womens issues. Cause that is what much of it was. Because the school may have and in my opinion chose wrong wording to describe, he became the victim, and no consideration given to how the little girl felt.

It was some weird shit. I didn't post in the threads either.

[Squinch]

15. But the whole incident, also, was just a flamebait tossed into the arena for them to say, "see?

See how terrible feminism is making the world?"

Because of a bad wording choice made in a kindergarten somewhere.

[boston bean]

16. Yeppers!

[ismnotwasm]

6. Knowing what to expect I'm staying out of it

But thank you, very much

[xulamaude]

8. Have you told Admin how ashamed you are?

Because that would be most helpful.

[MattBaggins]

9. Are they still around here?

Does anything happen?

[xulamaude]

11. Good questions.

Just figured with you being a man that maybe they'd listen to you.

Seriously, it couldn't hurt anything right?

[Squinch]

17. Nope. As long as the people who want to silence women and take their choices from them are

mannerly, the administration seems to think all is well.

They're young. They'll get it someday.

[BainsBane]

22. You could post in ATA

and indicate your concern there. It would be helpful for a man to stand up to it, particularly because they haven't heard you address the issue there before.

[MattBaggins]

10. I am going to get posts hidden

I can't believe some says the mother of the girl should "shut up".

Just can not believe that.

[ismnotwasm]

13. I just read that

That was a very creepy post.

[Squinch]

18. I'm so glad I decided to stay out of that. DU has been making me sad enough lately.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. me too ...

DU has become a sad shadow of itself.

[Squinch]

50. Ugh. I looked in out of curiosity. So sad.

[BainsBane]

24. You did get a hide

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2013, 02:23 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm editing this because I missed the subject line the first time. That's what did you in.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. The hide you asked about in ATA ... bad hide ... and what was left to stand ...?

are they fucking kidding around here? holy shit. this place is just not funny any more. at all.

[BainsBane]

32. It's because

jurors vote on who they like vs. don't like and if they agree with the person. It has nothing to do with whether something is appropriate. It seems to me if he really thinks my post was inappropriate, he should say how and why.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. yes.

*sigh*

[xulamaude]

26. Bullshit hide, man.

Complete and utter bullshit hide.

[seabeyond]

28. sigh... i am sorry you got a hide. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. appreciate it. thanks.

[geek tragedy]

21. ironically they're being pretty misandrist in how they represent the inevitable nature

of boys and men

[BainsBane]

23. That is what I said in my jury comments in the alert on you

earlier today. The post was allowed to stand 0-6. Did someone send it to you?

[geek tragedy]

25. No, someone alerted on that? PM m por favor nt

[seabeyond]

29. absolutely. the give a little boy so very very little credit. my boys are appalled when i say some

of the things they attribute to boys. absolutely, angrily appalled. i would never diss my boys int eh manner that they do. i would never belittle my boys or make them so imcapable. i haev always had high expectations and they not only have willingly met it but have accomplished so much more.

they are awesome

i would never do that to the child.

we are the one defending this boy. and they are the ones demanding the kid is not capable.

[NuclearDem]

27. Every single time DU talks about gender, rape, or sex it always goes like this.

I really wish I could say this was an anomaly as far as dog whistle hatred and general nonsense, but this happens every time.

There's a select group of about three or four that are starting to push it, though. Some misogynists have gotten the banhammer recently.

Really just generally ashamed of my gender as well.

[seabeyond]

30. plenty of women do shit in the name of being a woman i am not thrilled about either. i do not own

it. i work actively against it. same with you all.



i can look at myself in the mirror. how about you...

[Squinch]

49. It does always go like that doesn't it? Though now it feels like there is a group who are

caricaturing themselves in all these threads, and high fiving each other as they do it. It's usually the same names with a few new ones, but it seems like a certain type of new troll is flocking to DU to post in these threads.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. the phrase "teaching moment" is lost and meaningless on DU.

[JI7]

35. the person you responded to which got your post hidden was fired for not reporting a kid

who was being sexually abused.

this same person is the one telling the mother of this girl to shut up.

[seabeyond]

36. that was totally weird. and with the strong reaction, i was sure something was there. nt

[redqueen]

37. I can't even

[seabeyond]

38. i know...

mine did too... lol.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

51. well, again, I am in good company

seems they flatter you with a copy cat thread ...

Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery and all that jazz.