My first hidden post ever and it was for being misogynistic and sexist.

[sufrommich]

It's all in your head,Sea.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4514559

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

you're just being hysterical or possibly PMSing - UGH. This mysoginstic bullshit makes DU suck

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Feb 17, 2014, 07:50 AM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: More gender bashing and personal attack.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post of Suffromich's is obviously sarcasm expressing support for Seabeyond's position. He also posted a similarly sarcastic supportive comment earlier in the thread:

"Why,oh why won't those feminists just shut up already?

Buzzkills,all of them. {dripping sarcasm.gif rolleyes.gif}"

Assuming this alert was in good faith, the alerter would do well not to alert in a kneejerk fashion without looking at the wider context in future, which does indeed make DU suck. If this post gets hidden because people take the alerter's word without looking further, it will be unfair.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think surfommich was being sarcastic, actually. Soundman ACTUALLY called for banning 10-12 accounts at the start of this subthread (typical MRA-er, honestly. Whole Men's Group is full of them, and they're in this thread, started by one of them.)
MRA types do NOT actually debate issues: they try to belittle and force feminists off of the web. Like Soundman was proposing.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given



I'm going to take a wild guess here that the alerter knew it was sarcasm and went for it anyway,so congrats,alerter. Scooooooore!

[Squinch]

1. The stupid someone was growing in a petri dish has escaped from the lab and has taken over the city!

I thought progressives were supposed to be smart? What a disappointment.

[sufrommich]

2. Lol. I find it sadly ironic that

my first hidden post was so dumb when I've stopped myself so often from going for the hide that would be worth it.

[Squinch]

6. Honestly, I am seeing such a non-progressive trend happening here. I've only been here for two

years, but even in that time, it has veered toward the right and toward the really, really dumb.

[BainsBane]

3. Obviously a dishonest alert.

[Riftaxe]

68. I do believe that the text was

"Those words written in that post calling for mass bannings of individuals and one particular group is really just your persecution complex, you're just being hysterical or possibly PMSing."

Not all of DU readers might be familiar with the people involved. Given that, are you stating that they should discount it?

How would someone who does not read DU a lot, understand the clique involved in the joke?

And no i was not on the jury, my vote would have been to keep it.


What makes you think this was a dishonest alert?

[seabeyond]

69. when i do not understand something, being dumped in the middle of conversation, understanding i

probably will not understand, i start reading other posts. to see what is going on. i feel responsible to make an informed decision, if i can. all any juror would have ahd to do was go one post below and see us gigglin together, knowing it was not an insult. not any work at all.

and a few of us have gotten lyin alerters. i have had posts hidden, and i have had post not hidden, and others have sent me the result, of alerters lying. it is not that unusual. and it woul dhave had to have taken some work, to get the poster was not joking with me, if following the subthread. which i assume the were doing since they found that post to alert on. it is not like they just magically hit that post to read, out of the blue...

just sayin

lots of experience with jury. both doing and being done onto.

[Riftaxe]

70. That kind of is a down side of the Jury System

In that people can only be responsible to read the post and the one that the response is to (the latter should not matter, the post should either stand or sink on it's on).

As to the rest...sometimes a rock is just a rock, and it never hurts to get a second or more set of eyes on it, just to make sure it is nothing else. <Just make sure the other sets of eyes not wearing the same ACME goggles, the thing about wearing the same goggles is they tend to have the same flaws>

[seabeyond]

71. i so totally disagree. i feel strongly that is is our responsibility to read, until you understand,

or step away. i have read whole subthreads to find out what is going on. i have even gone into other threads, when they are referred to.

it takes seconds to read around the post.

the poster cannot be responsible to carry the conversation with the knowledge, they are responsible for making all things clear, for a potential juror. these are active conversations and a juror is steppign into the middle of it. do you not figure out what is going on, before you contribute to a conversation you walked into the middle of?

totally disagree.

[Riftaxe]

72. What a juror should do and what they actually do

...

Shall we start this with that an outsider would have no clue as to who you are and who the "offender" is?

I can understand why you care not a whit about the claim about PMS'ing that i suspect is what got the post we are talking about hidden. Which in this case i suspect would require one to be a bit familiar with the more reoccurring folks around DU.

There is no opportunity for a poster to clarify things for a jury, it would be nice although cumbersome, and on a discussion board I think we can agree that conversation is a pale imitation of the real thing. Outside of knowledge gleamed from being familiar with the poster the juror has to judge on what is being presented.

I think the important thing to remember is that conversations here do not really flow per se, we are asking jurors to judge various snapshots of the conversation, to do otherwise I do not believe would be feasible.

It is a limitation of the media, I suspect.

Given that I think (for what it's worth) that the decisions went down this way

juror #1 Offensive! Way out of bounds!
juror #2 Offensive! Way out of bounds!
juror #3 Offensive !Way out of bounds!
juror #4 I am familiar with the folks it is just kidding around.
...

That is just what i suspect, i will never know, neither will anyone else. It would be a waste of time to speculate differently for me, with absence of evidence.

In the end, I am not the one looking for scorpions under my blanket, but for me "This horse is dead Jim!!"

[seabeyond]

74. oh bull. i re read it. both my post and the reply that got hidden. it was obvious

that she was being snarky WITH ME for a handful of reason. but.... i am done arguing.

[Riftaxe]

80. Lord! well that good enough reason argue

as i prepare for bed

Hate to leave your dander up, so what specifically is bull?

*I swear between the debate club and Latin, i not been "right"* in over 50 years now!

[seabeyond]

84. ha. lool. i went to bed. and dander not really up. not with you.

dander was up about another thread i was in. i see you whipped off two other posts getting ready for bed. gonna read

[Riftaxe]

81. OK i just put in a 2+ hour movie, so let's dissect a little

"Bull". This part i do not agree with, and the rest does not really tell me what you consider 'bull'

We agree she was being snarky with you, i completely believe you when you say for a 'handful of reasons' presumably only you and her know the reason why, can you really blame others for not knowing why? Honestly i don't even know why on that account.

If something is obvious and true you can always break it down instead of assuming everyone knows what is inside of your head.

The point is that not everyone knows who the hell you are, because this might shock you to know, but to Billions of people, you are like a blade of grass, and about as unique.

If it was not a kind of inside joke, it is up to you to explain it...personally i would not bother.

Ahh well, keep trying to put the air back into the bubble wrap, when you succeed you will make more sense to many of us.

I think this is a common departing point that happens to often in this dreaded sub -forum, explain EXACTLY what you find about my post that you find unreasonable, then we have a starting point.

Or just alert and ban this post. Honestly, I really not care anymore.

[Riftaxe]

83. You are still my favorite Comedian

[seabeyond]

85. i saw this said one other time yesterday, do not know if it was you.

does it have some kind of meaning.

and why???? lol, would you assume the rest of us are up at what, friggin 1 am? you said you were getting ready for bed then pop in a 2 hour movie, lol

[DonCoquixote]

78. That is why, if I were Skinner

I would ban the ability to hide posts with "no explanation given."

Yes, people are scared of their name being targeted, but there is no reason that they should not be forced to give a reason, especially if there is a chance to appeal. I can write a whole essay on why a post needs to be banned, or two sentences, but both would say that I read the article.

But when you have the cowardly three or four that ban with "no reason given" you enable the sneaks and assassins, like the ones I saw grave dancing back when a certain Feminist I know got banned. The goons and the liars came out for that one, bathing themselves with blood and champagne.

[Riftaxe]

82. That is indeed one way to go about things

Personally i would wish jury names were just that, named.

The other part...surely you have been a juror on something so obvious it ain't worth the keystrokes.

[BainsBane]

73. The comment was sarcastic

It was not a deliberately sexist comment as the alerter asserted. Moreover, I have no doubt the alerter knew that, as did two of the jurors. No one needed inside information to understand the context.

[seabeyond]

75. i just went and re read mine and sufro. and ya. damn obvious. nt

[BainsBane]

76. You know whoever the alerter was

Doesn't give a daman about sexism or misogyny.

[sufrommich]

7. The "hysterical and PMSing" was from my

very obvious tongue and cheek post to Sea.

[MadrasT]

9. OK nevermind.

Deleting my post. I misunderstood. Thanks.

[sufrommich]

10. ....

[malthaussen]

5. Heh, my first hidden post was a single word.

And it wasn't even a vulgarity.

The system is... flawed. Especially if I happen to be on the jury.

-- Mal

[Denzil_DC]

8. I was Juror #4

It was a ridiculous hide and I wonder how many of the jurors would change their vote if they could after reading what I wrote. Seabeyond and I have been discussing it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4514635

I'm sorry some folks either have an agenda or don't pay attention on jury duty.

[sufrommich]

12. Thank you Denzil. It was a well thought

out reply.

[Denzil_DC]

17. You're welcome. It's what we as a community are supposed to do on jury duty,

and what goes around comes around (eventually).

Sorry for the hide. I did what I could. Maybe it'll be a learning experience for some ...

[seabeyond]

29. you are so awesome in grace. do nto let du mess you up, lol. stand strong.

i say that tongue in cheek, somewhat.

yes. that is what we are suppose to be. thank you

[ismnotwasm]

21. Good for you

That was just an awful hide

[DURHAM D]

11. I saw that post and thought someone

might try to trick jurors into a Hide. It worked.

Ain't the new DU just grand?

[sufrommich]

13. Yeah, I'm guessing someone

got what they wanted.

[seabeyond]

30. see. i would never think that looking at a post. and i certainly would not think of doing that as

an alerter. i simply do not look at life in that manner.

too sad.

[DURHAM D]

31. DU alert stalkers have trained me to think that way. nt

[seabeyond]

34. as i said in that thread. once i saw i was reminded that i have had a handful of posts the alerter

was dishonest. sometimes jury catches it. sometimes they do not and i have gotten hides.

i forget though.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594956

[DURHAM D]

15. I would like to see the numbers.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. me too.

[DURHAM D]

18. Remember this conversation ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12565203

Still waiting for a response.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. !

[seabeyond]

33. very few. and ya. periodically they will be kicked off. i know around ten that are returnees

and nada. they stay. they just multiply. you have to be real out there in hate to get a post hidden. you certainly have to be beyond that in order to be kicked off. yet, when these men finally get to the line, get kicked off, they simple come back on with another name and do their mild misogyny that barely gets a hide, let alone kicked off.

yet, we have to deal with each and every one of them, repeatedly.

we have one. that hurt no one. caused no problem. and her ass was out.

[seaglass]

22. The only ones I know that have been specifically noted as misogynists are

galileoreloaded, Pab Sungenis, DutchLiberal (sexist) and HopeHoops.

4th Law of Robotics was definitely a misogynist but his banning message is troll.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. thanks for the information, seaglass -

4 or 5 .... and names, too. Completely open and honest sharing of information. Transparency. I like it. Thank you.

[seaglass]

24. np TA - there could be more, I just don't know of them. The ones I listed were way overdue for the

boot.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. there could be more .....

in the past ( I understand ) and Yes ... Way Overdue for the ones listed.

[DURHAM D]

27. I just checked my notes from my six month MIRT service period

for removal of long term posters. Zero for sexism, several for third party advocacy, and six for trans or homophobia.


ETA: I am not making a claim this is 100% accurate. Stats are from my random notes. I just don't recall that misogynists could be elevated to a certain radar screen.

[seabeyond]

35. exactly. so much of the sexism and misogyny is merely differing opinions. so to get to the level

of offensive, it literally has to be beyond ugly. now... calling certain duers out in OPs, on jury ect... is not a great enough offensive. further, we are even told we are suppose to feel sorry for these men, while being attacked in the ugliest of ways in OP and insult after insult is flung our way from other posters. THEY stay on du.

interesting.

[ismnotwasm]

20. Yikes!

Kinda funny, in that ironic way, but that is in the top ten worst DU hides.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. It is important to use the sarcasm emoticon when your words can be easily misconstrued.

Many jurors will not examine the context. Either they are lazy or the warning message is confusing, so they don't take the trouble to understand what the poster was actually saying and just take the literal meaning and the alert itself as the entire context.

[seabeyond]

28. i have been busy in that thread, and saw immediately and total bullshit and shameful.

i am sorry sufro.

now.... gonna read this thread. it has been active.

i LOVE the poster that nicely put up the results in the thread and a couple of the juror. awesome. the rest... a huge ass thumbs down.

and btw... lying in alert to get a hide is often used. too dishonest and again, yes, shameful.

[sufrommich]

46. Thank you,Sea. I don't think anyone here

has suffered from alert stalking like you have.

[Jamaal510]

32. Don't feel bad.

Not to hijack your thread, but I just so happened to have my first ever hidden post, too, but for a different reason. I posted the YouTube video called "Criminals Gone Wild UNCUT" in V&M, and it got alerted on because it was supposedly "racist". All it basically was was just showing live crimes going on in the 'hood and getting the perspectives of people who commit those crimes.
I might be biased, but that was a shitty hide in my opinion. I think I might need take a break from this site for a while, anyway.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Oh I just saw what thread it was

I tossed THAT one in the trash immediately. Flambé

[beachbum bob]

37. too many mamby-pambies on DU

and handwringers.....political correctness is garbage and 100% against our constitutional and personal freedoms. But this is a private forum and they can enforce anything they want.

[seabeyond]

40. so, throw out the n word and lets see how "mamby-pambies" you become. hey... white male? by any

chance?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

52. good lord

been spending some time in the sun, I take it.

[Kali]

38. you MIGHT alert on your jury results

admins can see who sent the alert

might make a difference, probably won't. I suspect it might be one of the women around here who get very offended when another woman uses terminology for shock to illustrate a point (rather than as an actual insult).

I imagine those are a little harder to parse for admins, but if it were an obvious MRA-type suspect, it might make a little difference in his "record" around here...

[gollygee]

39. I would alert on them

it looks to obviously be a manipulation of the jury system.

[seabeyond]

41. pounding head.... lightbulb. yup. i know who.

fuck i am slow. lol

[sufrommich]

43. I took your advice and alerted. I added that I understand

that admins have a responsibility to err on the side of the alerter but to please take note of the alerter,decide if it may be a retaliatory alert and,if so,please note for future alerts.

[Kali]

45. that sounds like a really good alert message to me

just saw it was your first hide too - oh man, that is ....

I have had 5 or 6 since DU3 started and a couple were more or less deserved but there were also one or two that were total

if you serve or alert at all you will know sometimes the jury gets it and other times they are just lost.

[boston bean]

42. This same thing has happened to me on more than one occasion.

Obviously describing a misogynist or describing your thoughts as to ones motives is worse than being misogynist.

Looks like the use of fake ignorance/or understanding is used to retaliate against feminists to get their posts hidden.

[sufrommich]

44. I'm just upset that my first and only

hidden post was so incredibly stupid. But I agree with your point.

[ismnotwasm]

47. I've had two

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2014, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The first was something I had posted from a site on DU 2 a couple of times -- no problem. Here I got a hide. It's a very uncomfortable feeling.

My more recent one was a social experiment-- I expected it to be hidden because of the mood of DU at the time. Nothing said in it-- across a timeline was untrue-- quite the opposite--but I figured it would be taken personally, and it was.

[sufrommich]

48. I found it ironic that my hidden post was in

an OP that could be used as "exhibit A" in your fabulous OP "Telling Women to Shut Up". I take some pride in that.

[ismnotwasm]

49. As well you should !

[Tuesday Afternoon]

53. sufommich,

if you keep a journal ... post it to the Journal. That is what I do. There is some certain satisfaction (to me) to see my Awesome Hides whenever I need a Pick Me Up

[sufrommich]

88. Ha. I'll keep it in my mail file for posterity.nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

89. yeah,

but I like to share with everyone

[sufrommich]

90. I just looked at your journal,we have very similar

tastes in music,so I'm going to leave you this little nugget:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

91. hey, thanks!

Haven't heard this song for years. This is an excellent, though much overlooked track. Lots of unexpected hooks.

[seabeyond]

62. exactly. not only that, hte very thread that it was hidden in was telling, subtly, that

women needed to shut up. and many of the posters in that thread, were telling women to shut up. and probably the subthread was a discussion of it and you and i talking was the discussion of it and the post hiding it was a discussion of.

that is what is so trippy funny of it. then i see it hidden, thinking wtf? the really shut us sufro up. yup. they did.

[hlthe2b]

50. Unbelievable...

I have been on juries 668 times. I try my best to participate in a professional manner. That said, I see it quite vulnerable to manipulation-- a not insignificant number of jury decisions do bear that out. .

Sorry, sufrommich. Seems the jurors did not take enough time to understand context whatsoever.

But, yes, I guess we can not assume sarcasm will be recognized, so as others have said, I guess use of emoticons is pretty imperative. What CAN be misconstrued, surely will.

[DURHAM D]

51. This is off topic but did you see this OP title in GD

and subsequent conversation.


STUPID WOMAN WRITES STUPID ARTICLE STUPIDLY

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024514625

[hlthe2b]

54. Just now saw the exchange.. Heavens the cluelessness seems contagious!

Frustrating...

[DURHAM D]

55. I am not sure it is "cluelessness"

and even if it is ignorance "she" has been educated now and refuses to change the title line.

btw - When I see "godsmacked" I always think religious right. Is that wrong?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

58. isn't it supposed to be gobsmacked?

lord, maybe I should go back in that thread and read for myself and get context.

although, ugh.

I am with you ... I do not think it was clueless. subtle, maybe but, not clueless.

[hlthe2b]

61. Yeah, you may be right...

Looks like they edited to be 'gobsmacked'...

Some of the self-identified women (if they really are "women&quot here just leave me slack-jawed... Though, in real life I have not infrequently encountered women that treat other women and women's issues with the disdain that Allen West treats those issues impacting African Americans.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

56. Had to really resist the urge to post in That One:

something along the lines of =

STUPID WOMAN POSTS STUPID ARTICLE STUPIDLY WRITTEN BY ANOTHER STUPID WOMAN.

STUPID KNOWS NO GENDER.

or something like that.

because how else do you explaing MRA female sympathizers unless you really go into detail about how comfortable some women are in their role in this patriarchal society and do not care enough to help a sister out.

also, I just kinda wanted to see how many times I could use the word STUPID in a subject line

my better self prevailed and I resisted and moved on but, the temptation was strong for a moment.

[DURHAM D]

57. LOL

STUPID is today's word.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

59. DURHAM D

you will get of kick out of this.

There is an unanswered question by me in ATA ...

I ask if they would consider putting Stupid in the TOS

[DURHAM D]

60. I can not imagine why that went unanswered.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. this was during the porn wars ... had another DUer PM me and ask if

I was asking to get a porn group established since there was so much interest in it and all ... yanno ... to sort of try to corral and contain it

[DURHAM D]

66. I am GOBSMACKED !

[ismnotwasm]

63. Hid that one too

I'm not in the mood for taking bait today

[DURHAM D]

65. I understand.

I was the first to ask a question about the Stupid Woman part and "she" responded as if she didn't get the question. Others have called "her" out and she remains defiant. I too decided to stay out of it for personal mood management reasons.

I never did read the article in the link because I hung up on the poster.

[Riftaxe]

67. In one way welcome to the club

Although I can see it as being a direct attack regarding the claim to biological inopportunity I will stand up and take you to task for slandering one of my favorite Comedians on this board!

[Skittles]

77. you want I should kick some kneejerking ass, sufrommich?

I WILL MAKE THEM SEE THE BIG PICTURE; yes INDEED

[sufrommich]

87. Lol. Um,no. nt

[seabeyond]

92. ah man. i was cheering it on. whatya mean no. i was rootin the ass kickin'. you are....

such the better person than me. oh, and the ass kicker, lol

[TDale313]

79. ...

This jury system is such a friggin' mess. Sorry you got the hide- especially for such a wrong/disingenuous reason.

[sufrommich]

86. Thank you. I actually think it's pretty funny now

and not the end of the world.
Answer: Evil HoF member gets a hide for sexism and misogyny. Question: What is the most unlikely hide you're ever likely to see?

[seabeyond]

93. ah. well. been there done that also. and i have a couple that follow me around calling me a sexist

cause i use dear, honey or something. OMG... called one woman a woman.

i am a sexist.