NYT Olympics coverage: "Extreme Park Crashes Taking Outsize Toll on Women"

[enough]

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of this group on this story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/sports/olympics/extreme-park-crashes-taking-outsize-toll-on-women.html?hp

snip>

And most of the injuries have been sustained by women.

Through Monday night, a review of the events at the Extreme Park counted at least 22 accidents that either forced athletes out of the competition or, if on their final run, required medical attention. Of those, 16 involved women. The injury rate is higher when considering that the men’s fields are generally larger.

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But unlike some of the time-honored sports of risk, including Alpine skiing, luge and ski jumping, there are few concessions made for women. For both sexes, the walls of the halfpipe are 22 feet tall. The slopestyle course has the same tricky rails and the same massive jumps. The course for ski cross and snowboard cross, a six-person race to the finish over jumps and around icy banked curves, is the same for men and women. The jumps for aerials are the same height. The bumps in moguls play no gender favorites.

“Most of the courses are built for the big show, for the men,” said Kim Lamarre of Canada, the bronze medalist in slopestyle skiing, where the competition was delayed a few times by spectacular falls. “I think they could do more to make it safer for women.”

Compare the sports with downhill skiing, in which women have their own course, one that is shorter and less difficult to navigate. Or luge, in which female sliders start lower on the track than the men. Or ski jump, in which women were finally allowed to participate this year, but only on the smaller of the two hills. The Olympics have a history — sexist, perhaps — of trying to protect women from the perils of some sports.

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[ismnotwasm]

1. Wasn't there issues from the very start with dangerous courses?

I haven't been following, but I remember early juries. Interesting article

[BainsBane]

2. I know there were concerns the Slope Style course was too dangerous

and the half pipe was in a bad state the day of the men's half pipe but apparently had improved a lot by the next day when the women competed. I think the athletes who participate in that sport are the ones who can best judge. Those women and men do things the rest of us couldn't never image. They truly are awesome.

[Dems2002]

3. Practice for the real thing

I think that this is a tough issue, particularly if part of the problem in women's sports is the much larger separation in the abilities in their field than the men's. It also seems incredibly foolish not to practice for what you're going to experience in competition. If everyone's practicing on less challenging courses and jumps, then of course there are going to be more accidents. But based on the evidence in this article, it doesn't sound as though the women should be on the exact same course as the men at this time.

I'm glad they're competing in these events. I think it's important for them to be seen. I found sport a very valuable endeavor growing up. I didn't ski much, but man snow boarding is seriously appealing now.

I enjoy watching both the men's and women's events at the games. I heard some of the female downhill skiers complaining that their course had been too simplified. I can feel the pain from the best of the best who want the most challenging course available to prove their abilities. I think there's a fine line between avoiding the number of accidents experienced this year and turning the women's event into the bunny hill or catering too much to those who have no chance at a medal.

[ismnotwasm]

4. I wonder if Russia ramped it up

Doesn't seem so from the article, but I've gotten the general impression of rougher courses. Apparently they didn't make allowances for women when the should have, but it sound like feed the lions sport over there for everybody

[proudretiredvet]

5. My daughter laughed at this thread.

I'm ranch raised and she spent time on the home ranch when I was overseas. She learned to ride rope drive equipment exactly as the boys do.
I taught her to hunt and shoot exactly like her brother. She is used to equality and demands it in people around her.
Then we have this line of thought. It is too steep for women. They have to start lower. They have to ski a different shorter easier run.
Really???
Her words were.

I guess some women really do want it both ways.

Then she went out the door with her brother and their bows, pig hunting. I'll bet she sticks one before her brother does.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Big difference between Olympics level extreme sports and pig hunting

I do understand what you're trying to say.

[proudretiredvet]

7. That is true.

But she will still get on any colt her brother does. There is equality and there is "almost".

I raised her to be equal in every way I could. She accepts that and expects that. It is how she thinks.

[ismnotwasm]

10. Excellent

[BainsBane]

8. Which women here said they wanted it "both ways"?

I see a lot of, "I don't know" because really, we don't.

[sufrommich]

9. I don't get the "women want it both ways" comment.

[proudretiredvet]

11. They want equality but

They want a shorter course.
They want to start lower on the course.
Ect.
What they say they want in life does is not reflected in their comments or complaints. That being equality.
That is what she meant.

[sufrommich]

12. That's not really what equality means though,

at least not in feminist terms. There's no shame in not sharing the same characteristics as men and as far as sports go,it's women competing against other women. You sound like you're a great dad with good parenting skills,sometimes it's important to let our daughters know that "male" isn't the default mode of the human race though.

[proudretiredvet]

15. Really

So this line of thought would also carry over into, say, the military???

More specifically the training standards for some marine units, the Rangers, and the SEALS?

I'm thinking there are a lot of women out there who are not agreeing with this right now.

[sufrommich]

16. Are there different training standards in the military?

If not,than the women who can pass them will pass them.

[proudretiredvet]

19. There is a big debate about this every few years.

The Marines are dealing with it this time. There are no women Rangers that I know of and no female SEALS.

I strongly support the ladies but this issue is a tough one that in the end could easily turn out to be life or death dependent abilities.

I'm very glad I do not have to figure this one out. My daughter and I have talked about this one too. She asked me what I would say if she enlisted and tried out for ranger school. It really scared me. Not because I was afraid she would fail but because I know she may succeed. The daddy in me came out strong.

[sufrommich]

20. Lol,your daughter sounds like she's

extremely confident in her abilities and as a parent ,I know that that is every parents fondest wish for their children. Sounds like her parents did alright.

[ismnotwasm]

13. I think it has to do more with size and strengthdifferences

If they were competing together, you'd have more of a point. It's why sports are segregated by gender. What they're doing is very dangerous and the discussion is actually on the courses themselves. These people have been training for years and are in top form-- the best of the best.

[proudretiredvet]

17. I still have to smile

I'm the Dad who went to bat for her when she was a freshman in high school and wanted to try out for the wrestling team. I had to convince the coach, the principle and the superintendent of schools that it was much cheaper than the litigation I would initiate.
She made the team and lettered all four years. She won 80% of her matches and every one of them against a boy.

[ismnotwasm]

21. My daughter was very similar in the army

She refused to let her gender allow to fall behind in PT or anything else. She would have gone Airborne, but developed shin splints from all the double time. So she gets her wings rappelling out of helicopter's instead.

[BainsBane]

14. That is not what most of the athletes in the piece said

If fact they said the opposite, that they believe they are every bit as capable as men.

[proudretiredvet]

18. That is my point.

I also think so too.

[Sheldon Cooper]

22. So then what is the problem?

Neither the women in the article nor the women here in HOF are claiming that they want it both ways. Only you are. So again, what are you going on about?

As far as your daughter's pig hunting - congratulations. Or something. I'm not really sure why you felt the need to bring that up.