well, to those who asked on ATA, there you have it

[CTyankee]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595048

Suck it up.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

1. SKINNER: "So we're genuinely conflicted. Do we lay down the law,

or do we trust the community?"

Seems like he's asking you/us what to do, Bjorn.

Are 178 recs (at last count) on a little post in a tiny obscure sub-group enough to suggest a way to go? Hmmm...

It seems to me this thread represents a pretty good chunk of the
community, and that the community is therefore suggesting that, Yes, Admins, lay down the law.

Skinner/Earl are leaders, like it or not, and it looks like time to lead.

Part of good leadership is conferring with the community to see what the community thinks, and it seems like Skinner's answer to you is doing just that.

If I read ATA correctly, and hopefully, Skinner is asking you, as a kind of representative of the community at the moment, what to do.

Could be false hope, but it seems like an opportunity.

(reposted from the big thread)

[seaglass]

2. That's what it sounded like to me too. n/t

[DURHAM D]

3. Link to the ATA question and answer(???) that you are referring to -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595046

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. thank you.

If Skinner wants any more of this female's hard earned money he will start laying down the law. Because I am tired of ignoring and giving the benefit of doubt. I am tired of going into a Hostile Lounge. I am tired being called a Prude. I am tired of people accusing me of being drunk when I call them out on their double standards. I am tired of self-hating females telling me all I need is a dick (which reduces men to a body part). I am tired of the deliberately obtuse and, the outright stupid I see every day on this board. I am tired of double standards being applied because trolls have infested their way all to the top level of power in this LLC.

[Whisp]

16. I don't think it's the star money so much now but the site clicking

for income from ads which include: Impeach Obama and dating ads for what looks like underage girls from a while back. All kinds of r/w and pukey crap ads all for the sake of income. On a Democratic site.

There are some days I click a whole lot.

I'm going on a click diet.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. -

[A-Schwarzenegger]

6. Thank you. I wrongly assumed

the OP was referring to Skinner's response to Bjorn.
Hmmm... I guess I'll leave it...

[CTyankee]

28. Not the exact one but I would say that

the admins are the owners and the work site proprietors of DU. My question to Skinner was whether he would want to see the SI cover pic displayed in his work site, which DU is for him. That is what was not answered. It was direct, yes, but not rude. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. It is a disappointment for me, but at my advanced age, not a tragedy. Some step us, some don't . Hey, it happens.

[Texasgal]

4. I'm trying to understand

what is so damn conflicting?

[DURHAM D]

7. LOL

Right there with you.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. short answer: money.

[CTyankee]

8. I am in a few of those questions that have not and now will not be answered.

I have good reason to believe that at least some are about the SI original post. Mine was not abusive, it was polite, if direct. I did expect the courtesy of a brief reply. Not to get one was a big disappointment to me.

People who work in noble causes often think that they themselves are ennobled. But this must be earned by their own actions, not their words. Sometimes we are called to make a stand. Those who do, do and take the consequences. Then there are those who simply don't act, for whatever practical reason, and they can be difficult. Are they evil? No. Could they do better? Yes.

I have lived a long life and seen this time and again. It is not pretty, especially among those who are younger than I am. I think I will leave it at that.

[CTyankee]

10. I have self deleted my question.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

11. I think the SI business is a symptom

of the disease Skinner/Earl have allowed to fester,
hoping the patient could heal themself. Now
it seems the Doc is asking the patient if the patient might
require a little surgery. It looks like the door is ajar,
a tipping point is at hand. I'd like to see the community
encourage the "laying down of the law." At this point
the health of this joint clearly calls for definitive action
from the top.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. yes. yes. yes.

[CTyankee]

18. The problem I have is that I came to DU in 2004 thinking it was truly progressive.

I accepted at face value that the term progressive was one that had Feminism baked into the cake. Humanism is Feminism and vice versa. Why else would I work for every Dem since I was able to vote...going back to JFK?

Progressivism is feminism. It is the belief, IN ACTION, that women's voices are heard and respected. Is this too much to expect from DU?

[RBStevens]

12. +1

Are we (the folks who stand up to sexism) supposed to be satisfied with a single banning of one long-term, egregious misogynist?

Kind of looks that way to me.

[DURHAM D]

17. Seem like a one-off to me as well.

I don't see anything other than Greenspany Double Speak in the ATA response.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

15. And I apologize for misreading your OP

& confusing the issue(s). But I think it's all connected
so I'll leave it. And I understand your feelings in not
getting any response from Admin.

[CTyankee]

20. oh, I didn't know you had! But it's all OK. Sorry I didn't make it all clear.

It's fine, really.

Being old, I realize when limits have been met and you just have to quit something. I joined DU in 2004, right before Kerry lost. I depended on DU in the ensuing months for solace and community. There was a vibrant feminist community then, believe it or not. I think they were slowly marginalized out of that vibrant existence.

How sad! Couldn't it have all been different?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. I was at a little meet-up with NSMA

on the night my namesake got elected. The DU of those days
would not recognize the DU of today.

[CTyankee]

25. I guess this classifies as "whining about DU." Oh, well.

I always wondered if that was a strategy to head off any conflicting opinion early on...

[MadrasT]

24. I do not grasp what there is to be conflicted about and I have no hope (based on prior actions)

If the "problem" was racism, would they "trust the community" and let it ride?*

If the "problem" was gay-bashing, would they "trust the community" and let it ride?*

Why does it seem that misogyny and sexism is the only topic that is so fucking hard to make a decision about?

Add this to the complete non-responsiveness on the well-supported requests to explicitly add sexism and misogyny to the TOS... harumph.

I don't have a star anymore for a reason.

This is the reason.

Do they want DU to be "an open and honest reflection of itself" when "itself" is no longer reflecting core progressive/Democratic values?

They don't seem to want to take any responsibility at all, yet they fully own this current clusterfuck due to inaction.


*Edit to add: maybe these topics are equally problematic and I have been blind to it, and if so, I apologize to my non-white and LGBT brothers and sisters for having my head up my ass being fixated on my own pet topic.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

26. I am starfree myself, for the same reason.

I could be being duped by my own hope.
Time will shortly tell. I can't believe the Lads
think banning Benny & some other goof
will do the trick.

[DURHAM D]

30. The owners have specifically expressed ZERO tolerance for

racist, homophobic and transphobic posts.

They have never expressed zero tolerance for sexism or misogyny. I can only assume it is because they don't know it when they see it.

[theHandpuppet]

33. One of the best posts I've ever read about this problem.

And you are exactly right.

[PassingFair]

41. But objectification must be tolerated because...

Apes.

[seabeyond]

42. ya know... i am just so sure in those cavemen day, women were all that. ya think? lol. nt

[kcr]

31. Well said

Also star free for the same reason.

[KitSileya]

34. Do any of you guys know how to stop the automatic renewal of star membership?

I have one, and while it doesn't renew until September, I am not at all satisfied with the site's handling of posters who attack, denigrate, and abuse others. They put their accounts on hold for 12 hours, and then let them back to continue their abusive behavior? Why should I pay to support site owners who did not object to me being called mentally ill, sick, mean, and told that street harassment was all in my head?

No, I don't want to renew my star membership, but how do I stop it?

[Agschmid]

37. Go to "my account"...

Then star membership and you should be able to turn off auto renew there.

[KitSileya]

39. I have, and there's nothing there to click except 'renew now'

It gives my 'Star membership status', which is three pieces of info - that I am a star member, the expiration date, and time until expiration (with the renew now button.) It also contains my 'purchase history', no buttons to click.

In other words, the only thing I can do about my membership status is to renew my star, and if I click that, I only get a list of star membership benefits, and links to 4 different methods of payment. I have renewing payment, but both the recurrent options demand a paypal account, which I don't think I actually used. I have one, but I've never actually used it because I couldn't activate any of my debit cards. I usually donate to DU through Amazon, so perhaps it's there I need to go to stop the recurring payments.

[Agschmid]

40. You also can just email skinner he can do it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. and Thank you, cyberswede, for this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018579139

Please keep this shit out of the lounge. It makes for a hostile environment.

[Whisp]

19. keep checking back is click click click $,$,$

[CTyankee]

22. well, no more $ there. It's a losing game.

I'm sorry I played. Silly, stupid me...I shudda known better...we are too soon dumb and too late smart...

[Whisp]

27. Flaming posts like SI has a lot of people in click overdrive.

I know I was here reading on some of those posts more than I normally do.

I can't imagine someone calling out the African American group in the same disrespectful ways would survive, nor calling out the LGBT forum and members - no way that would fly, the hammer would come down in resounding thunders.

But having a huge fracas at the expense of women is still acceptable. click clickety!

I really have to go on a click diet.

on edit:
I don't mean to belittle the AA or LGBT group's struggles in any way. I know they have had their bad times then and still now. sorry.

[CTyankee]

29. yep. no more.

[BainsBane]

32. Actually someone showed me stats that traffic is down

Not up. People are sick of the shit and coming less to DU.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/democraticunderground.com

[Agschmid]

38. Yes traffic is down...

But I don't think that is enough evidence to show a correlation between the two. Traffic could be down for many reasons...

[Whisp]

35. for those whose questions are ignored, why not paste them here

and we can sort it out ourselves.

[CTyankee]

36. Great idea! Then we have a testament to our concerns that go unanswered and raise the

question: WHY?