I think there were

[boston bean]

7 hidden posts in this thread. In an OP that was quite progressive and something you would think we could all agree upon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4893303

WOW and some of them ...

[gollygee]

1. yeah

but, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=306421&sub=trans

[BainsBane]

2. VN's behavior in that thread

was not , I suspect, terribly surprising to any of us here in HOF who had communicated with him. (Two of the banned posters who made the worst comments were proved to be his socks). He kept the worst manifestations of his misogyny in check for most of his time on DU, but it was simmering beneath the surface the whole time. I think we know the kind of hostility toward women expressed by some men is reflective of a far deeper hatred and level of disturbance than is immediately apparent to the casual observer.

So you see peanut gallery, misogyny exists, even among so-called Democrats. Vashta Neranda, and whatever his prior user name was, is a perfect example of it.

His case also shows the link between denial and overt misogyny. He began by arguing he has never seen anything like that and ended by wishing a feminist would be raped and killed. Denial enables misogyny (and all forms of injustice) to continue unchecked because if one refuses to accept that something is a problem, there is no way to combat it.

[MadrasT]

3. Had VN pegged ages ago.

I don't even waste my time with these types of jackasses anymore. They live to argue, derail, and thrive on the attention they receive. I prefer to starve them now.

Glad some people do have the energy to devote to "education" though - there were some spectacular comments in that thread.

[Squinch]

4. Good God! I had seen that thread early on, but then missed all the astonishing nastiness!

Vashta and Apostrophe or whatever the hell his name was should have been gone a long time ago. That was disgusting.

I would bet money that they were the same person and they were Loli in their last incarnation.

But the post by Tansy was fabulous.

There is so much anger when you point out the obvious around here. It makes me wonder what kind of fairyland some people live in.

[sufrommich]

5. I doubt that either VN or Apostrophe are through

here. I honestly admire my sister's in HoF who manage to keep fighting this shit here daily. I don't have the stomach for it anymore. Tired of the constant obvious MRA shit that's allowed to fester here as long as they're liberal on other issues and the women who cheer them on. .So very sorry to see Sea brutally attacked like that.Disgusting.

[CTyankee]

6. I have to wonder if Skinner saw that shocking statement...I would guess so because it had to

be one of those horrifying moments on DU when everyone seeing it stops cold and confronts it...

[Squinch]

11. I imagine he saw it as a teachable moment.

[CTyankee]

12. And, to me, I wonder if it is something of a warning of fears of the future of DU?

I am sure that he and his other co-founders started DU with the highest of intentions of noble progressivism.

But somewhere, along the way, there were two snafus that he had to deal with: guns and the men's rights movement. They seemed to have happened fairly close to each other. What was the rationale that led the admins to change course on these two seemingly bedrock issues of gun control and feminism?

I ponder this sometimes...

[BainsBane]

13. I'm guessing he would say the guy is PPRed, problem solved

However, VN had been here for months and served on juries. Moreover, he wasn't even close to the worst of the misogynists, until he made those final comments to Sea. The fact is there remain a few people who consider feminism as advanced by HOF more offensive than the threats of death and rape VN made against Sea. That people continued to attack feminists and feminism in general in that thread even after VN made those awful comments demonstrates as much.

[seabeyond]

8. i am sorry you got a post hidden, for letting du know how disgusting those comments are in that

thread. 4 mens egos were not coddled, i am sure, with your disappointment of behaviors. can you please let me see that jury result.

[sufrommich]

31. Here you go,Sea. It was well worth the hide:

Sat May 3, 2014, 09:16 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

This may be the sickest thread I've ever read on DU.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4904107

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling other members (by name) trolls is expressly forbidden in the TOS. If you disagree with someone, make your case, name-calling is not the way to do that.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat May 3, 2014, 09:26 AM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This Alerter should be banned for LYING. The TOS does NOT forbid call outs or troll calling. This message is used all of the time by TROLLS and some jury members still buy into it. Further, the members mentioned in this post have already been BANNED as returning TROLLS. I hope someone notifies the ADMIN about this alert and message. The Alerter should be PPRed.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Understandable frustration with the reflexive and unconscious misogyny that appears whenever even the mildest of feminist talk is done on DU. "Troll" is probably wrong if it means someone dispatched by a Them, right if it means someone obsessively activated by red flags to push a permanent agenda altogether immune to evidence.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Expressing your opinion is one thing, but breaking the rules by calling out another DU member is another. The bashing from both sides of this subject is out of control. Each group pushes the others buttons just because they can. Equality and respect for women is a very important topic and should be discussed but neither side is making a valid argument... they are just baiting each other and arguing. It's becoming tedious.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

CONSEQUENCES OF THIS DECISION

You will no longer be able to participate in this discussion thread, and you will not be able to start a new discussion thread in this forum until 10:26 AM. This hidden post has been added to your <a href="/?com=profile&uid=153380&sub=trans">Transparency page</a>.


I'd like to add that I love you,Juror #2.

[seabeyond]

32. mouth hanging open. he was BANNED as a TROLL by earlg and you got a fuckin hide for calling him a

troll?

what a bullshit, fuckin lying piece of shit hide this is. the alerter should absolutely be checked out.

now. i will read replies. i cannot believe a person is kicked off as a TROLL and you get a hide for calling him a troll.

[sufrommich]

34. Yeah,since when is calling a banned troll a troll

"against the TOS"?

[seabeyond]

35. stupid hide. nt

[seabeyond]

33. juror 2 actually did his/her job. nt

[Squinch]

16. Seems like not a lot of women left, really, who post on a regular basis. And for good reason.

Same with minority posters.

[seabeyond]

7. i ma really having an issue with all this in so many directions.

isms thread she just put up, i spoke a bit about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125542664#post2

this is what we so often talk about. that too many men dismiss really happening. yet, feel the need.

i am really really... experiencing a lot of different thoughts. du looks different.

[Squinch]

14. Me too, Sea. And not least because, in the wake of that abuse that was handed to you,

when everyone on DU should be at least being careful not to throw salt in that wound, there are now a spate of anti-women threads in which all the good old boys are talking about how manipulative and money grubbing women are. I don't think it's coincidence that so many cropped up right after that vile crap was directed at you. I think it's kind of a high five to the pieces of trash that wrote those things to you.

I don't see much that's liberal about this site any more. If they aren't bashing women, they're bashing minorities, or bashing labor or any other progressive group you can think of.

[seabeyond]

15. yes. i agree. that is a trend. nt

[UtahLib]

17. That thread illustrates

that some people are simply not who or what they claim to be. The hate and malice will eventually explode to the surface for everyone to see.

[seabeyond]

18. eventually. it usually does. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. in the meantime, they are alerting and sitting on juries (in judgement) of DUers in good standing.

I have a Real Problem with this aspect of our current moderating system.

I don't think "newbies" should be allowed to sit on juries or have alerting privileges until they have over 500 posts.

While this would not have affected the latest brouhaha it might go far to solve future problems.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. One of my hidden posts is to Vashta. Personally, I think it should be removed from my record and

my 20% given back to me.

[seabeyond]

20. i think so too.

i think i got one months ago. asking him who he was. i know i asked. i think i got a hide asking him.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. sea, would you mind posting yours? You understand, I can NOT believe that a simple

asking of a question was alerted much less hidden. I will be glad to post mine. It was over the SI cover brouhaha.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4537038

please move on Vashta. the whole thing is so NOT about SI.

that thread was posted by a woman trying to please some boys in TMG. She lives for the attention. She craves it, needs it.

It validates her existence.

Good for her.

Who Cares.

I know I don't care.

It is not about SI.

[seabeyond]

22. ya. i dunno. once the hides fall off the 90 days i would have to know where to look for the posts

right? and i cannot remember.

i have like three times gotten a hide for challenging low post counts that zero in on me (which is a huge clue in) with a simple who are you, or who are you to be so familiar, as a newbie. or the like.

i mean. without using the word troll or anything offensive.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. ok, I see. Yes, that is understandable since yours has already dropped off. Mine is still on

my record and I am being penalized 20% for a post to someone who proved their self to be a troll (duh! knew it all along).

I don't think I should be currently penalized for a post to a banned troll.

meh.

Really, starting to not care much, one way or the other, about these silly reindeer games.

It just seem so pointless, sometimes. yanno.

[seabeyond]

24. we had troll fitman, (ya, name says something about this 50 yr old man huntin' youth desperately)

send a handful of us a nasty, ugly, disgusting pm. he also posted to me in hof with a snarky dismissal. after reading his pm, then seeing is snark in the thread, i told him to fuck off.

that was a hide. he was tos'ed minutes later.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. This whole "self-moderating system" has a real "game" feel to it all (for me anyway) --

-- tit for tat --

However, of course I think their hides are legitimate and our hides are in retaliation for their hides.

but, Honestly ... sea, was what I said above so very wrong?

[seabeyond]

26. that one would be rolling the dice in my opinion. since one can argue,

the poster went from thread to thread, and still does, saying me me me me. that was me.

that you accurately interpreted actions.

one can say

[Tuesday Afternoon]

27. ah true ... I have a bad habit of watching people's actions to make sure they coincide

with their words. If they talk the talk but, are not walking the walk then I consider them to be ... Un-True ... not authentic.

I don't care for that type of behavior in real life and I guess that attitude goes so far on a message board, too.

[seabeyond]

29. this is my problem. if i see that happening, then i would see that honestly putting a reality out

there should not be hide worthy.

it does not work like that.

someone may say something stupid. i can just give the words back and get a hide. i feel i should not get a hide, presently the reality, a truth. others see it as offensive or wrong. lol

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. yes, the bad behaivor is accepted ... the calling out of it -- not so much.

I got a hide once for describing a very offensive picture. My words were hidden, the picture was not although, in full disclosure, I don't know if the picture was alerted because I did not alert. This was before all the penalties were attached.

I got Nine hides in Fifteen minutes in the process of cussing out a Troll in The GC&RKBA group. This was very early on DU3.

Still, they were gone and my Transparency Page was open for all to see ...