In the Real World, the So-Called ‘Boy Crisis’ Disappears

[eridani]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/179914/real-world-so-called-boy-crisis-disappears#

School was all about following the directions and reaping the rewards. Getting ahead outside of school, I eventually figured out, meant figuring out rules that weren’t written down.

This real world lesson is a harsh one for girls especially. On the whole, we excel in school. We have for one hundred years. We nearly always get better grades. We are better behaved. Tell us to do our homework, raise our hand and sit still, and girls are much more likely to obey than boys. We’re also now attending college and completing degrees in higher numbers than young men.

This has some observers—from conservative Kay Hymowitz to centrist David Brooks to contrarian Hanna Rosin to mainstream David Leonhardt—worried that there is a boy crisis. If today’s boys are falling behind on self-control as well as grades, while women race ahead and get more degrees, will tomorrow’s flounder in the workplace?

But while we socialize girls to be better students, we do little to prepare them for a workplace that is not an even playing field. They leave school, a world full of clearly laid out rules and rewards, and move into a workplace that is tilted against them from the very beginning. Young women fresh out of college will make less than their male classmates in their first job, no matter what school they went to, major they chose, grades they got or job they took. That wage gap will continue to grow as their careers advance. They’ll make less than men in virtually any job they pursue. Even if they decide to go back to the structured world of academia and gain an extra credential like an advanced degree—something that the on-paper rules tell us should help them advance—they’ll still make less than a man with the same credential.

[ismnotwasm]

1. And there are people who flat out deny this

Akin to climate change deniers if you ask me.

[jimlup]

2. I'll probably get flamed for this ...

but there is a crises for boys in our K-12 education system. This shouldn't be denied either.

For the record I don't deny that there is sexism and discrimination in the world and that it negatively impacts women in the work force.

[eridani]

4. Except when they get out of school, that doesn't matter anymore n/t

[jimlup]

5. That's just not true

Our society can ignore the problem like we do most things but we are failing our young men. This means that they will not be ready for the challenges that they will face in there lives. As a teacher of adolescents I'm very aware of this problem and it isn't a particularly politically convenient issue and it should be a feminist issue because well, I thought that feminists care about the welfare of society. But I guess some of them here just care about hating men.

[eridani]

6. What you are talking about is a generational problem

Lots of research establishes that young people who enter the job market in a shitty economy will have permanently suppressed lifetime earnings. Very bad for the young men you are teaching, but even worse for the women.

[nomorenomore08]

7. "But I guess some of them here just care about hating men." You just lost all credibility, frankly.

Of course young men and boys in this society face serious problems. So do young women and girls. In both cases, it undoubtedly has a great deal to do with antiquated gender roles of the sort feminists ostensibly work against.

[jimlup]

9. My credibility isn't the issue

There is a very clear tone here and I'm not entirely comfortable with it. I do observe what happens to young men in our society as I'm a 12th grade teacher. I also know that young women have limited choices because of the gender inequities at the college admissions level. In some cases the gender imbalance is higher than 60%

But again I'll remind you that I don't consider my "credibility" at issue. I do raise the objection to anyone implying that issue boys in our society are currently facing doesn't matter. No, when race and class distinctions are taken into account it most certainly doesn't end up not mattering in the end.

So consider me of no credibility please but do consider asking the honest questions and seeking the honest answers about adolescent boys rather than assuming the answer because it fits preconceived ideas about the order of things or your preconception of gender inequalities.

[nomorenomore08]

10. I have no problem with "asking honest questions." What I object to is the implication that feminism

is somehow to blame for men's/boys' problems. It's not feminists who enforce outdated gender roles.

[jimlup]

11. Nor did I say that

But then I know for a fact that some have the position that even asking the question or raising the issue is an attack on "feminism". It isn't. And in fact, quite the contrary.

[nomorenomore08]

12. Fair enough. I just don't like it when feminists are unfairly smeared as "man haters" - to me

it seems to smack of "reverse racism" and other right-wing canards. People like us should, ideally, be deeper thinkers than that.

[jimlup]

15. Except that there are cases in which it is true....

I recall a time a few years ago walking past a "Take Back the Night" rally on the campus where I was a graduate student. As a progressive male I was indeed sympathetic and even thought of joining the rally. As I listened I heard the speaker on stage declare that "All men are guilty of rape." And I'm not paraphrasing nor exaggerating. That indicated clearly to me that I was not welcome at the rally and the reason had to do with the Y chromosome with which I was born and could not choose to not have.

I'm very sympathetic to feminism and to women's causes and I recognize that statements such as "all men are guilty of rape" are the exception held by those who have their own serious problems. However, when a discussion turns towards discrimination against men because they are men, as an outspoken person, I object from the deepest parts of my soul.

In my opinion, deciding to ignore the academic problems male teenagers currently are facing apparently because "it all evens out later", is blatant discrimination. It doesn't "even out later" because class isn't consider here. But even if it did, it would still be discrimination.

The test is simple, reverse the genders and see how you feel about it. As a High School physics teacher I work tirelessly and with deep dedication to solve the problem of why young women shy away from math and science. And I can proudly say that, at my school at least, I have made major contributions to reversing that specific trend.

[nomorenomore08]

16. I'm glad you're doing your part to improve things. And I didn't mean to give the impression

that I don't consider this stuff worthy of discussion - it very much is. But I've seen so many people - including a few women - blame "feminism" for "boys'/men's problems" that I have kind of an automatic negative reaction to anything that seems to carry a whiff of that.

And I know there are extremists in the feminist movement, like in any movement. And like you, I don't particularly want anything to do with someone who despises me just for having a Y chromosome. But again, a lot of people throw out the "man hating" accusation any time a feminist (or hell, even a woman) has the gall to be upset about something. A hundred years ago they would've called the same women "hysterical" or something, I suppose.

[jimlup]

17. Glad we've reached a position of mutual

understanding. For my part I'll not use remarks like "man hating" and yes, I regret it as an off the cuff remark so thanks for the feedback.

[nomorenomore08]

18. No problem. I think your heart is in the right place.

[seabeyond]

21. as far as the issue with school. boys are doing better today than anytime in history.

girls being ahead of the boys does not mean the boys are not fairing as well.

so ya. be informed.

i put two boys thru school. academics a priority in this house. gender roles werent acceptable. the excelled in english, reading, history and sciences without maths.....

the only problem i saw for our boys in school were the always provided excuses.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Join VDay

http://www.vday.org/home

It's a worldwide, inclusive organization that welcomes allies. It's a wonderful organization, and if a rally comes to where you live, there is singing and dancing and story telling by a variety of women from cultures all over the world. Men are completely welcome. Different points of view are welcome.

If you're teaching physics to girls that's awesome. In another life, I would have loved to be a physicist, but alas, I content myself with books by Brian Greene and Michio Kaku--because they're fun, (Stephan Hawking when I'm feeling ambitious) and watching Cosmos.


I personally have never met a feminist who said all PIV sex is rape, however, where that originated from was a book by Andrea Dworkin, who was criticizing the male/female sexual paradigm, and the critics of her book coined that phrase, not Dworkin herself-- she herself rejected it. I'm sorry you had to hear that.

[seabeyond]

20. "all men are guilty of rape" bullshit.

[AverageJoe90]

13. Many feminists DO still care about the welfare of society....of BOTH genders. I'm an example.

Although, yes, I do realize that not enough has been done to address how boys are also negatively affected by outmoded patriarchal ideals.....and that needs to change.

[seabeyond]

22. except it is mostly feminist that are discussing the outmodeled patriarchy model for our boys.

and as a feminist mother of two sons, damn right it is the ultimate in important to me.

[IronLionZion]

3. Job hunting sucks, and connections trump qualifications

is the takeaway I got from reading this.

[nomorenomore08]

8. +1

Thanks for a rational, non-finger-pointing response.

[AverageJoe90]

14. Me too. nt