Anyone else think that tossing "radfem" around as a slur is the same as saying "feminazi"?

[redqueen]

I gotta say I'm way past sick of it. It's ignorant as hell, it demonstrates a lack of interest in feminism in general, and it is used to demonize radical feminists which, to me, at this point, is seriously fucking suspicious.

[F4lconF16]

1. Nope, you're not the only one who reads it that way.

The intent behind it is usually pretty obvious.

[redqueen]

5. Right? nt

[gwheezie]

2. Pisses me off

I have the same reaction to both terms. It's used to make us sound "hysterical" and used to call us anti male. Fuck them. I'm sick of it.

[redqueen]

7. If it's used to just talk about that knd of feminist / feminism that's one thing...

but slinging it around as an insult? As a way of singling out 'bad feminists'?

Oh, hell no. I'm done tolerating that shit.

[bravenak]

3. I also think it is a rightwing type of slur.

I also think social justice liberal is being used as a slur on occasion.

[redqueen]

8. Agreed on both counts.

And yes, 'social justice warrior' too, very much so.

[MadrasT]

50. Yes and yes.

Hell yes I am a radfem and hell yes I am a social justice liberal and FUCK anybody who has a problem with that.

Those are labels I wear WITH PRIDE.

[GeoWilliam750]

67. Completely agree

The response needs to be:

"Hell yes, I'm a radical feminist, and damned proud of it."
"Hell yes, I'm a liberal, and damned proud of it."
"Hell yes, I'm a Democrat, and damned proud of it."
"Hell yes, I'm a union member, and damned proud of it."
"Hell yes, I'm for civil rights, and damned proud of it."

Take the language back, and make it ours again.

No one will ever make me feel bad for saying and doing what is right.

[theHandpuppet]

4. Yes.

I don't think it's always been that way but as it's tossed around now there are definitely negative connotations.

[redqueen]

9. Yeah it's not everyone using it as an insult...

so in that respect it's different from feminazi, which has only one meaning and usage.

But when it is used as an insult I think the intent and effect are identical.

[shenmue]

6. They probably got it from Limbaugh

Or some crappy MRA site.

[redqueen]

10. Most definitely. MRAs love ranting about Radfems.

So yeah, another little clue there.

[BainsBane]

12. Yep, I first heard the term from one of my most ardent admirers

back when I first joined. He accused me of talking from the "radfem playbook," and pointed to some website I supposedly got my ideas from. I hadn't heard of it. Mind you this was because I objected to bikini babe photos plastered all over DU. Cause that is soooooo radical.

[redqueen]

13. Yes, as if only radical feminists consider sexual objectification to be an issue.

[BainsBane]

11. Or feminists like myself who aren't particularly radical

Yeah. Of course it is.

[kcr]

14. Yep

It shows a certain ignorant mentality. I never see it used by actual feminists and their allies.

[redqueen]

16. Yep, another big clue there. nt

[Squinch]

15. What the hell is it, even? It's like a neon sign pointing to those that use it that says,

"Feminists scare me and this equality thing for women? I'm pretty sure it's a bad and radical idea. Let's just let the Supreme Court do its work."

[redqueen]

17. "Let's just let the Supreme Court do its work."

It has been a trying, but revealing, couple of weeks.

[CTyankee]

18. Yes! I was going to ask, what the hell is "radfem" anyway?

Can someone one explain it to me? Please? Just what are we supposed to be doing wrong?

[Squinch]

19. I think they think that when we talk about women's rights, we emit radiation... Hmm... That would

explain a lot of why they are so frightened of us.

[CTyankee]

21. I have actually asked that in the Men's Group. No response yet...

[Squinch]

22. Oh, that will be interesting! I never see men's group stuff because I have most of them on ignore.

(Quinnox being one of them!) Let us know what they say.

[littlemissmartypants]

30. Or ooze pus??

[Squinch]

34. Cooties! Irradiated cooties!

[littlemissmartypants]

40. ...slowly exits...

[PeaceNikki]

20. It's used to belittle and demean. like the deliberate use of "hysterical" to describe us

Being pissed about the attacks on reproductive freedom.

Related: I'm so glad one of the worst offenders is gone. Sadly, he has a lot of support here.

[BainsBane]

23. then there is the "offended feminists"

who evidently tell lies all the time only to besmirch the name of perfectly upstanding trolls.

[CTyankee]

24. we are a roving band of female terrorists...

at least that is interesting...

[BainsBane]

25. With super-human radfem powers

able to summon "swarms" through radfem sonar and remotely control other members to post attacks at our command.

[littlemissmartypants]

35. DUzy. nt

[MadrasT]

51. Geez, I missed that training.

Hook a sister up, will ya?

I wanna tap into that radfem swarm sonar superpower too!

[theHandpuppet]

53. Ooooh! What a visual that is!

As soon as the repairs to my studio are complete, I'll definitely work on coming up with something for that new superheroine, RADFEM!!!

[littlemissmartypants]

29. And we are rattling our pots and pans.

Get used to it.

[BainsBane]

31. Don't you love how women are automatically the liars?

Without even bothering to request links, while the banned troll is the good guy?

[littlemissmartypants]

32. I hear you loud and clear.

With out evolved resilient females NONE OF US would be here. That is what they fear.They NEED us. We hold life...in our hands and our Lady parts.
Omgawd. I'm sounding like a radfem.

[BainsBane]

33. It's my all powerful radfem sonar

I lured you in. You can't help yourself.

[littlemissmartypants]

36. Zzzzzzzzzaaaaaappppp.

[chervilant]

52. Yeah, that "good guy" has been on my IL

for a month of Sundays...

(At least since the "gender wars," a patronizing meme he helped perpetuate and about which he liked to whinge.)

[JustAnotherGen]

26. I'm glad you wrote this

We have a member sitting in the corner in time out right now - who uses that an awful lot.

And I tell you what - that member knows precisely what it means.

[BainsBane]

27. He told me it means feminists

who aren't nice to him.

[littlemissmartypants]

39. OMGawd!

Forgive me for my lack of empathy.

[JustAnotherGen]

47. Ahhhh

Everything is illuminated now.

Put that one in your journal for further use.

[BainsBane]

48. It's on the other site

but I could find it.

[littlemissmartypants]

28. SFS: my favorite new acronym.

SERIOUSLY F N Suspicious! No doubt.

[Iggo]

37. Absolutely.

[littlemissmartypants]

38. I love this group

SO MUCH!


I would have used the :radfem: but she's engaging in a PM chat with :feminazi:
Pictures at eleven.

Love, Peace and Shelter. littlemissmartypants

[Curmudgeoness]

41. I see no difference in the terms

and I know that it is meant to demean women who speak out. And anyone who used either term knows it too.

I cringe every time I hear with one of the terms, and I don't see myself as radical at all...but I do stand up for women's issues and believe that there is a problem in our society regarding the treatment of women.

[DesertDiamond]

42. Because wanting basic human rights for women is just soooooooo radical!

[Babel_17]

43. It's the context (I think)

I'm coming at it with fresh eyes as I haven't seen it before. I ask myself, if a female rocker, like the awesome Julie Ruin, were to describe herself as having been part of a "radfem" movement*, I wouldn't blink an eye. Or if the awesome Lori Petty described her Tank Girl character as "radfem", I'd just nod my head.

*Riot grrrl, actually

The word "radical" is always a pejorative coming from some people so I can see how it as an insult by default.

Huh, I just found this. http://askaradfem.tumblr.com/ So I guess it might just be one of those terms.

P.S. I'm a guy.

P.P.S. It reminds me of how classic science fiction would use such abbreviations. Like in works by Philip K. Dick or John Brunner. If you are familiar with their work then you might agree that can be an ominous association.

[etherealtruth]

44. The exact same thing

The poster using "radfem" as a pejorative is likely the same poster that would use the term "feminazi" if they thought they could get away with it.

Of course the sole purpose of using the term as a pejorative is to demonize feminists ... and to clearly show disrespect to the women of DU

Par for the course

[The Traveler]

45. I concur. yes. n/t

[BillZBubb]

46. Absolutely!

When I see the term, I immediately picture the writer as a Limbaugh clone.

[Oakenshield]

49. Rad being short for radical? Yes, it's a slur.

Anything that isn't far-right is branded radical these days.

[ismnotwasm]

54. Yes. I wasn't "radfem" until George Bush took office

I was a "liberal" feminist.

And I sure as hell wasn't the one who moved the goal posts. When I see it used as pejorative, I think "RW troll" or "dumbshit".

It's also a deceitful way of attempting to 'soften' feminism, isolating and demonizing radical feminists, promoting 'comfortable' feminisms. I always see articles on how it's ok not to be a "good feminist" what the fuck ever. I don't even know what that is supposed mean.

I don't mind discussing different ideologies, waves, ideas or perspectives. Radical Feminists include some of the best feminist philosophies, as well as Its most coherent explanations. My first hide ever was posting a great article from IBTP. (one I had posted twice before onDU2) The second one was on purpose-- I was testing what would happen if I incorporated some of the same stuff. Social experiment.

Not every feminist is a radical, but with the constant assault on body autonomy--sexuality, reproduction, the pay gap, being threatened on-line for having an opinion, etc--maybe we all should be.

[geek tragedy]

55. in general, anyone who whines about feminists so often that they

wind up using portmanteaus like "radfem" is a retrograde nitwit

[johnp3907]

56. Well put.

[Squinch]

62. ...TBH...

[Tetris_Iguana]

57. Yes

Then again any term can be made derogatory depending on context.

We just have to own the term more than they do.

[cyberswede]

58. It's definitely used as an insult on DU...

unless it's used by DUers who self-identify as radical feminists.

I've noticed it for quite some time.

...and the attempts to compare radfems to MRAs is laughable, yet it happens. Quelle surprise.

[BainsBane]

72. Isn't he a dear?

Last edited Sat Jul 12, 2014, 04:46 AM - Edit history (1)

He's sweet on me too.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

59. DU Rec.

because being treated with dignity and respect is such a radical idea ... ?

and the Nazi thing is beyond disgusting.

[el_bryanto]

60. It's hard to imagine that term being used in a way that wouldn't shut down discussion

Even if it were used positively ("Look, Redqueen, You aren't one of those radfems so I know you can be resonable&quot it's still basically saying "These are the boundaries of discussion - you can go this far, but no further."

Can't see much use to the term, unless your goal is to denigrate and dismiss ideas you don't agree with.

Bryant

[Squinch]

63. Very well put.

[IronLionZion]

61. I think females are totally rad!

Rad as in cool! As if there's anything wrong with being radical or seeking radical change.

It's fine to take ownership of some words and wear it like a badge of honor. No matter what someone else's intent may be, it doesn't have to be taken as an insult.

You're the one who told me that radical feminists believe in seeking an end to the patriarchal system and do away with gender expectations. That is radical, and its not a bad thing to believe.

[seabeyond]

64. radfem.... simply fighting the partiriarchy and crushing the gender roles forced on us. and THAT

is what scares the men so.

hence, the disdain, scorn, hate when they use the word. meh.

[GeoWilliam750]

65. Welcome back, sea

[seabeyond]

66. thank you. i feel good. that was a very productive time out. i SO learned my lesson. nt

[GeoWilliam750]

68. I desperately hope that you have.......

....not changed one little bit

[seabeyond]

69. bah hahahah. arent you special.

i have been practicing. how do i look?

[GeoWilliam750]

70. I am sure the MRA gentlemen will approve heartily

Until they get a well deserved face full of ballet flat

[Bjorn Against]

71. I think it depends on the context of who is using the term radfem and how it is being applied.

I have known a number of proud radicals and I have known several women who would wear the term "radfem" with pride, but I have never known a woman who would approve of being called a Feminazi.

That being said, I also realize that the term radfem is often applied to women who do not associate with that term and in that case it is a very demeaning term.

If a woman does wear the term radfem with pride then there is nothing wrong with using that term to describe her, but most women do not want that term applied to them and to apply such a term to them without their consent could be considered just as offensive as calling them a Feminazi.

[ellenrr]

73. I think its purpose is to trivialize. I just got regarded elsewhere on du as suspect

because I identify myself as a radical.
lol
a proud identification
as is a radical feminist.

[Tetris_Iguana]

74. Smh

We should all be at least a little bit radical as PROGRESSIVES.

[ellenrr]

75. agree. I think some people think "radical" means one is a bomb-throwing anarchist.

which btw, I am an anarchist. But radical means "going to the root", and I like the term radical or progressive, to distinguish myself from liberal.

[TDale313]

76. Yep.

"Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, Liberal, fanatical, criminal." Supertramp had a point

[Zorra]

77. We can, in large part, "thank" a small sect of transphobic conservative authoritarian extremists

associated with radical feminism for this misconception.

High profile hate born of ignorance draws the negative attention of the literate progressive community, as evidenced by the controversies surrounding Hobby Lobby, Barilla, Chik-fil-A, RadFem 2012, etc.

Radical Feminism is a constructive agenda for ending patriarchy; TERF is clearly destructive to the goal of ending patriarchy.

Unfortunately, it may now be impossible to separate Radical Feminism from TERF in the general public consciousness; the moniker radfem may now be an indelible scarlet letter on the forehead of feminism.

Maybe changing the name Radical Feminism to something somewhat equivalent, and never, ever inviting conservative authoritarian extremist bigots to the party again, can eventually stop the use of "radfem" (or its future equivalents) as an anti-feminist/misogynist slur at some point. Unfortunately, Radical Feminism and Sheila Jeffreys are now eternally joined at the hip in the minds of a large number of relatively socially conscious but inadequately informed people.

And, of course, excluding all of the above, "boys will be boys".

Asking people nicely to stop using misogynistic slurs doesn't seem to work anymore, as witnessed by the adamant, juvenile refusal of many self-described progressives here at DU to stop using the "b" word.

Thank you for initiating this long overdue discussion, redqueen.

[seabeyond]

78. i do not think the mainstream the react negatively to "rad"fem is about terf. they are clueless.

Last edited Tue Jul 15, 2014, 10:29 AM - Edit history (1)

i feel the majority do not know the definition of radfem, adn that is the only issue. i feel once they hear the definition, then they say, well fuck.... i am rad fem too.

i think they use it on du cause they will get a hide with feminazi. and people think radfem is an issue. they are so uniformed or uneducated in feminism that not only do they not know about the terf issue, they do not know radfem is not an insult.

i think they are probably thinking of women who do not shave their legs and hate men.

and generally when one of the posters are screaming radfem at us, they have also tied in man hating.

[redqueen]

80. "they use it on du cause they will get a hide with feminazi"

"generally when one of the posters are screaming radfem at us, they have also tied in man hating."

[redqueen]

79. No, I don't buy that. It seems to me that a small set of people are intent on spreading propaganda

intended to demonize radical feminism, but I won't be drawn into catering to their anti-feminist bullshit.

People who see 'radfem' used as a slur should get a clue. Those people are NOT allies.

[Zorra]

81. I'm saying that the TERF contingent has unnecessarily given Radical Feminism a bad rap, and

that it impedes the process of eliminating patriarchy by alienating a substantial number of probably uninformed but well meaning progressives from Radical Feminism.

I've seen this firsthand, as a feminist LGBT activist. You can dismiss members of the progressive community who have been alienated from Radical Feminism by TERF as stupid, uninformed, and even malicious, and believe that they need to get a clue, but this won't change the fact that some progressives have been unnecessarily alienated by TERF, and have unjustifiably grown contemptuous of Radical Feminism based on a false assumption that Radical Feminism and TERF are basically inseparable from one another.

The only thing I want to sell is the quickest end to patriarchy, no money down, and no payments ever.

Again, I'm not referring to juvenile misogynists who use radfem as a slur, although MRA types do use the transphobia expressed by TERF, (and they really don't give a shit about transphobia), as free bonus ammunition to be used against feminists and feminism.

[redqueen]

82. And I'm saying that the "TERF" issue is a red herring.

It is nothing but a very flimsy excuse for demonizing feminists.

I don't accept that bullshit any more than I accept "well some (members of x group) do (x)" as an excuse to demonize all the members of ANY group.

It is disgusting and frankly I would expect progressives to see right through such slimy tactics and excuses.

[Zorra]

83. Oh, my. Whatever. We disagree. nt

[ismnotwasm]

85. Po' Baby.

[cyberswede]

87. You need some new material

Originality score: 0

[ismnotwasm]

88. Why?

Like I said you must be bored