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F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:17 AM Aug 2014

Thoughts on a culture of sexual violence... (Trigger Warning?)

I don't know what should have a warning or not so I left it on.

Just something that's been bouncing around in my head for a while, and that I think would be best put in writing here, where hopefully people will understand a bit better.

About a week ago, my longtime friend and now ex-girlfriemd and I broke up. She's someone I've known for a long time, and I know her better than probably anyone else. During our conversation that night, however, she said something that surprised me.

She's been through a whole lot of hell growing up, having had health problems from a young age and then having been raped and beaten some years ago by an ex-boyfriend. She's...always been tough. I don't know how she gets through the shit she does. But she's made it so far. With luck she'll make it some time longer.

During our conversation that night, she told me one of the things she was really going to miss about me was that, "[She] never worried that I was going to hit her" and that she doubted she'd find someone else like that. When I responded that she would, she said that I didn't understand, that "That's just the way things work".

At that point, I cried a bit. She truly doesn't think she'll be able to find someone who will treat her like a human. When I responded, she told me I didn't understand...and at that point I realized I hadn't understood, not even close. I knew what she went through. I knew it had affected her hugely, how could it not? But I also knew she for whatever reason felt comfortable around me, and I felt good about that. I still do.

But I didn't think further. There is an entire culture layed out against her. I ride in friend's cars and hear a popular song about tying a woman to a bed and burning a house down around her (or something like that--I was trying to block it out). I see media that portrays her as nothing more than a bit of flesh to be owned by a real human. I see websites teaching people to do things that would at best be considered harassment and rape at the worst. I tried a new show on Netflix tonight and dropped it 20 minutes in because it already had so much blatant misogyny and worse in it that I couldn't watch. I hear a culture around me tell me that it's weird for men not to want to watch porn, not to want to watch degrading and abuse of women. That I'm wrong to even consider them as people.

I have no idea how she's not scared of me. I'm a big guy, tall and with a mostly shaved head. People have walked to the other side of the street to avoid me walking the other way with a leather jacket on. I don't understand how she doesn't feel threatened by me with everything around her telling her that I should, I own her, that she's nothing but a woman. When I was with her, I thought it was good she felt comfortable around me, and abouti why she felt that way. But I never really thought about why she wouldn't feel comfortable around everyone else. When she said that "That's just the way the world works" I finally got some of it.

I don't think she was thinking any of this when she said it
I don't know if she's that aware of it herself. But there's a culture permeating everything around us that tells her she should be afraid. It makes me sad. But it also makes me furious.

I can speak out against this culture whenever I hear it. I can protest for awareness, fight for the rights of women, do what I can to help victims of this culture. I don't know how much I can do against this huge, barely visible, insidious enemy. But I sure as hell want to fight it.

I don't know when she'll be able to be comfortable around another guy. I hope sooner rather than later, and hopefully he won't fall prey to everything telling him not to accept her as another person, another human.

Anyways, it's late and I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, so I'll leave it here.

Strength to all victims out there.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thoughts on a culture of sexual violence... (Trigger Warning?) (Original Post) F4lconF16 Aug 2014 OP
Thank you for this post. chervilant Aug 2014 #1
It is rare MadrasT Aug 2014 #2
This. redqueen Aug 2014 #6
"That's just the way the world works" handmade34 Aug 2014 #3
I see what you say completely opposite: freshwest Aug 2014 #8
Thank you for this post. F4lconF16 Aug 2014 #10
you're in unique position to creatively educate other men zazen Aug 2014 #4
This is one of the best posts ever on HOF. CrispyQ Aug 2014 #5
Agreed. Impressive. freshwest Aug 2014 #7
There are good men BainsBane Aug 2014 #9
Women are comfortable around my husband too ismnotwasm Aug 2014 #11

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
1. Thank you for this post.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:40 AM
Aug 2014

I hope, despite your breakup, you're going to remain friends with this woman. Given what you have shared herein above, you're the kind of person many of us would be glad to count as friend.

Most women are survivors of some form of abuse and/or misogyny. We learn at a very young age to be wary of men. Isn't that sad?

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
2. It is rare
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:53 AM
Aug 2014

that I meet a male person who truly gets it or even wants to think about it. Most seem to shrug it off or worse, make excuses for it, or still worse, deny the situation exists.

Your post actually made me tear up a little bit with gratitude.

I wish you both peace as you transition to what sounds like a new version of your relationship.

Thanks for the post.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
6. This.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 12:37 PM
Aug 2014

It is so sadly rare to find men who get it and don't make excuses for it.

Fuck, not exactly easy to find women like that either now that I think of it.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
3. "That's just the way the world works"
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 07:01 AM
Aug 2014

...teach her another way...

your friend needs to learn to love herself and trust her instincts... she must overcome her self-doubt and insecurity in order to live a full life and help her distinguish between the assholes and the good ones... it is not easy

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
8. I see what you say completely opposite:
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 01:20 AM
Aug 2014
"That's just the way the world works"

She'd observed and learned and may not have the energy or the opportunity to keep trying out another version of how the world is.

...teach her another way...

How is that to be done? What can he, as well meaning as he is and I love the OP for all he said, teach her that?

That sounds patronizing, on the surface but I'm sure you mean he can do such a thing. He certainly wants to do so and is not going to 'mansplain,' or try to control her. I know you mean that for the best as he does, but superficially, it seems wrong to me.

your friend needs to learn to love herself and trust her instincts...

I think she is loving herself enough to avoid men hopefully until she is independent enough for relationships for her to be at 'the level of choice,' free to say yes or no without feeling any sense of loss, or neediness.

She is trusting her instincts and some of us have had to develop different instinct to protect ourselves. At times, it is best to be alone. And it is wise to admit one has suffered and to not fall for the same things again.

I had a dear friend, who'd been a prostitute and come from an abusive home. She was visiting where I lived and an married man was trying to catch her fancy.

She was falling for him, and I warned her that he was not as he was presenting himself to be. Her history had given her such a need for love that she saw any kind of warmth or kindness, even sexual interest, as the love she needed. She decided that she needed to change 'her taste in men.'

Although I think the OP would be a good match, but she is not seeing that in him. She only sees what she has known. I'm not telling him to swoop in for a rescue and he knows that he can't fix it. If she has this vision of all men being abusive, she will not be able to accept a man who isn't.

Perhaps we are saying the same things and I am being clumsy. But I'll attempt to finish.

she must overcome her self-doubt and insecurity in order to live a full life and help her distinguish between the assholes and the good ones... it is not easy


See, that sounds just like what I was saying, but it still sounds patronizing. I think that people have very good reasons for acting the way that they do and adapting to things.

After her life history, she is like many, hard wired. She will not be able, no matter who attempts to soothe her, release that. The only things I have found to relieve that mindfulness meditations, EFT and overwriting the memories. I've known people who will do things that are considered reckless or taking certain risks that inevitably fail to erase the hard wiring. They seek to relive the trauma, but are convinced they can 'win' this time.

The OP author is correct, the atmosphere we are being suffocated by is not inevitable in results. But it's hard to break away from the polluted sources of social information, as we need each other to survive. The media has become like a computer worm, infesting the consciousness.

People are imitate whatever they see or hear from it, no matter how destructive it is to other human beings or the planet. It is so powerful and addictive they will fight having it taken away like a drug addict. It's a mental and emotional addiction, makes them feel more alive.

Watching this happen makes me despair at times. Anyway, gotta get some rest.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
4. you're in unique position to creatively educate other men
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 08:11 AM
Aug 2014

If you do appear (on the outside) to be a rough around the edges hyper masculine guy, you'll have that much more credibility with males to begin to nudge them to greater awareness of their privileges, mistaken assumptions, and range of better behavioral choices. I don't know the sphere in which you live and work, and obviously that "nudging" can take a lot of different forms, but I've noticed well-placed regular humor (of the Will Ferrell kind) when you see bad behavior in other guys helps to create a stereotype in their mind of an asshole, entitled guy that most guys don't want to be and motivates them to change their behavior a little.

I'm a pragmatist about social change and support the work that changes attitudes even 10% (as if that could be quantified) in a healthier, less objectifying direction as much as that which pushes for much more radical change. It all helps.

I think a lot of men somehow feel that the emotional intelligence and sensitivity you have toward women as human beings is somehow impossible to have and still retain "masculinity," which sadly for them must be predicated to that degree on being not-woman, meaning their subjectivity is more valid and real and they have to participate in all sorts of casual ways of objectifying women (e.g., the daily, unquestioned "right" to violent and degrading porn).

If someone with your "scary" appearance gives otherwise oblivious, casually abusive guys a way to critique the worst of masculinity without feeling that they're being effeminized, I'm all for it. People move in fits and starts toward better treatment of others and sometimes the most important thing is the experience of that first attitudinal change. It provides momentum and an experience with tolerating and resolving cognitive dissonance that makes the next change more palatable and likely. Glad we have another ally.

Sorry about your loss, btw.

BainsBane

(53,029 posts)
9. There are good men
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 01:50 AM
Aug 2014

but it is harder for those of us who have been abused to manage to find them. You are of course spot on about the culture of violence against women.

ismnotwasm

(41,975 posts)
11. Women are comfortable around my husband too
Thu Aug 28, 2014, 08:00 AM
Aug 2014

He's big, and hairy and tends to scowl or be blank faced, but a few minutes in his company they like him. Maybe it's because our marriage is so solid, but I think it's him--he's just not a creep.

And he has funny little sayings, some as simple as "it's not your fault" or "there is no statute of limitations on the grieving process" that people tend to remember given particular circumstances. He also refuses to hang out with creepy men that talk sexual shit about women.

What's funny is he can be a real asshole when he wants, he just sticks up for what he believes is right.

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