tone. the way we address the issues. uncivil? rude?

[seabeyond]

i was shot a link to DI, once again, men from du, talking about us hof women. how we women are rude. uncivil. skinner's DI (i do not remember the name but he clearly states who he is) comments quoted in this thread.

it basically seemed to be a handful of du men, a few that know little about hof, all defining who we are and our .... tone. as uncivil and rude.

they also posted some of di skinner comments. i verglas, who is welcome on that site of course clarified skinners statements, to see all of what he was saying. instead of cherry picking to meet agenda, like the man that was pulling out skinners quotes. and... she got a post hidden. because she was uncivil. in a thread discussing baines.... who had a post hidden, who was kicked off du for time out, because she is rude and uncivil.

all the men did assure us it is our uncivil, rude behavior causing us the problem.

baines and i have both had public rape scenarios and OPs started attacking our fuckability, and it allowed to stand.

yet, we are rude and uncivil.

why is DI important to du? well hell, it is the very people on du talking about us. lol. duh. i say. quit talking about us, and i quit talking about you. i do not get the onus on this one, when i am taking the SECOND punch. i am allowed to defend.

i had a thread on du yesterday. i made a mistake. it was called out. i fixed the mistake. done. oh no, .... had to have a couple start the same shit. why?

we have a relatively new duer who presents himself as a 20's man. and since he has been on du, he has told us women. we know not what we speak of. we are wrong. we need to be quiet and listen to him. he too is a feminist, but us old women, just will not allow him to lead. cause he does not want only a voice at the table, he wants to lead us women.

and i ask.

when i say no. does that really make me uncivil and rude?
when i do not allow another to define me, does that make me uncivil and rude?
when i express my beliefs, that are progressively democratic, does that make me uncivil or rude?

tone. always tone. simply stating, does that make me uncivil and rude?

seems to be the criteria we often use. back to DI. it has been implied by skinner more than once, (if people want posts i can provide), both on DI and DU, that we EARN the hostility. and if a large enough pool of our peers are resentful of us, then a hide is legit.

i put forth, that seldom am i even to the extent of rude or uncivil. what i am.... is vocal and blunt. not always right, but always working with the truth i know.

between the long thread i read last night, listening to my fellow duers, on a crazy uncle site and the new poster emailing me this morning, telling me i address feminism wrong, i thought the conversation should at least be something we are aware of if nothing more. i find it interesting, what is happening in our world today. how hard too many individuals are trying to deny us our autonomy in the name of support, liberal democratic view.

i have really kinda backed off du a bit, and rarely go into DI. though, i get a DI update thru my email that i find interesting. i am really just perusing GD for now and occasionally commenting. it feels like a lot of us are doing just that. cool. cool cool cool. womens issues seem to be more focused elsewhere, with a larger pool of like minded people. betcha we would do better in those pools of peers, with jury, than we do on DI and DU. anyway.

just thoughts.

[MadrasT]

1. If people are trying to shut you up...

...then they don't want other people to hear your message.

Therefore, they must think the message is dangerous.

Therefore... keep doing what you're doing.

Complaints about "tone" go in one ear and out the other for me.

Anybody who is a true ally doesn't give a fuck about tone. Anger is the correct response to injustice. Anyone who doesn't recognize that has their head up their ass, is not an ally, and I am not bowing my head and meekly requesting their support.

Not my style.

I don't ask for fucking permission to be who I am, and I don't modulate or temper who I am for anybody. Take it or leave it, all the same to me.

[seabeyond]

2. I don't ask for fucking permission to be who I am

[seabeyond]

3. this is the given. and this is the point. yes. of course we are going to rub people, and some men

the wrong way. especially, voicing an issue they do not want to hear. a duh. so how fair is it for me to take the blame, cause i made these men hostile toward me, for merely expressing my views? and this would be the tainted pool, we speak. that i am suppose to some how feel i had a part in creating. meh.... i do not take responsibility for anothers bigotry. lol.

[seaglass]

4. It is so much bullshit.

I read DI a lot but don't post over there. HoF is a moneymaker for DI and has been since Day 1.

In any case - all DUers have the Ignore tool at their disposal so the DI whine-fest about HoF ruining everything for them is easily solved.

[littlemissmartypants]

9. ...

[Luminous Animal]

5. Many years ago...

When I was partaking in "un"- civil disobedience at a city government meeting with my sister feminists to save the San Francisco Rape Treatment Center, one of the male city reps walked up to us and said, "You sound cranky."

That cracked us up. After that, no matter what we doing, initiating a letter writing campaign, testifying in front of a commission, being interviewed, arranging a protest... we'd tell each other, "You sound cranky."

[littlemissmartypants]

10. My govna Mc Crook thinks cookies are the answer to our

"Women problems."

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/elections-politics/blog/gynotician-week-north-carolina-governor-pat-mccrory/

He created a heep of women problems for himself as a result.

[Luminous Animal]

12. You sound cranky.

[littlemissmartypants]

15. ...slowly exits...

I just now put my feet up after a long damn day. I'm worse that cranky. And I love your tone.

I am here to lift and be lifted.

WTF, do the misogynistic not get about this group? Plenty.

Questions are a great way to divert and control the discourse. Excellent tack is to change the tack. Diverge or converge, here it is up to us.

Do we really need to listen to the DI drones?

[Luminous Animal]

16. And I love your tone! And not only do the misogynists not got get this group but neither does

the concerned middle.

I love this group.

[littlemissmartypants]

17. Me too. nt

[ismnotwasm]

6. I've never been to DI

I consider it a waste of my time. As far as tone, what I see happening is yes, we are occasionally rude, but far, far more often we are responding to demeaning comments or snark. Important topics are constantly derailed. We defend. Or at least some of us do; I like to ask questions, if it's someone I haven't tagged as useless to do so. It very interesting how often I don't get an answer, and often enlightening when I do.

Unfortunately, there are enough trouble makers on DU to make reasonable discussion impossible, and I, to find myself here less and less.

[littlemissmartypants]

11. Agree.

I went to DI one time and never went back.
I like peace.

[TBF]

7. Calls for "civility" and "tone" are the preferred way

to uphold the establishment/patriarchy.

They want the argument to be on their terms.

Fuck them.

[littlemissmartypants]

13. Exactly. eom

[Texasgal]

8. I often find it interesting

how many people sit around and piss and moan about Hof and have never bothered to read any of the posts here. There are plenty of well educated posts discussed and debated here daily.

The people that piss on it are people that obviously have a personal axe to grind. I've decided to put a bunch of them on ignore. It doesn't matter anymore to me personally what they think. I wouldn't;t give to much credit to DI. There seems to be an influx of banned DU'ers looking to start more drama. Fuck it...no one has time for that. I read in this group everyday. I do not comment much because drama is something that I no longer look forward to at DU. Yes, I've had my share.

Just be careful sea.. I am almost certain that you will be alerted on this thread. I hope that the alerter feels real good about that after all life at DU is so much better without Hof.

[littlemissmartypants]

14. Thoughtful and excellent points. nt

[seabeyond]

19. you walk in to be nasty, only to point the finger and say see see... your fault. ya. that makes

sense.

[BainsBane]

20. Can you please provide links showing members here have charged

great swaths of DUers with misogyny? If your point is accurate, we should expect to see several links in which members here charge large numbers of DUers specifically by name with misogyny, not simply comment on its existence. I'd also like to see links to these incidents where supportive men have been met with hostility. Since you say they are so common, they should be easy to come up with.

[seabeyond]

21. welcome back.... 'bout damn time. did you get some leeway?