my 17 yr old son told me... voting for clinton, with ALL sanders will give us...(uppermiddle/middle)

[seabeyond]

Last edited Tue May 5, 2015, 11:43 AM - Edit history (1)

voting for clinton because she is a woman. is just stupid.

this is what my 17 yr old son told me last night. after a weeks of listening, he came to this conclusion.

wow. brilliant. where else am i hearing that. woman. just cause a woman. men are actually challenging clinton supporters, as my son did last night. gunna vote for her cause she is a woman. and roll the eyes.

i saw this develop. i told the story as we went, as we created just this, for the last handful of days. oh. and what i have gotten back from sander supporters. no "true" sander supporters would discuss the difference of social justice and economic justice. i am not declaring for clinton. no gotcha moment here, for those waiting and looking for them. i get that what i type, will not actually be used in any conversation we have.

this is my experience and beliefs. i have been clear from day one, repeatedly. cause it is so a DUH.... in obvious. lol. a 4 yr old can do this.

i saw and stated bluntly. prior to sanders declaring, he was jumping in the race. sanders has an audience. youths, middle/upper middle, and males. he is gonna jump on that economics and fix the system that most effects.... what?

he has a huge audience. the youth. middle/upper middle, especially male. demographics. no more. being the practical male, you all can recognize demographics for what it is. no emotion or hysteria i assure you. just talking numbers.



there is a lot of conversation in this simple act, and what transpired. the accusations and demands, as a sanders supporter. i felt there was a lot more conversation we should have to address something very real, as a sander supporter.

it has gotten so extreme, i am now being accused that i am repeatedly saying sanders is.... racist and sexist.

my son does social media. hey all, i called that one, too. i said msm wont win smearing sanders cause he has social media and that is where his people are. you know. youth and middle/uppermiddle?

the meme coming from sander supporters, gunna vote for her cause a woman? (how silly is that, am i right?)

i am being accused of calling sanders a racist and sexist. am i being labeled as one of these mystical "puma" that i am now seeing sanders supporters pointing the finger? you you... you are a puma. i didnt even know the subject in 2008. i was obama, and i was focused on what he was doing, saying, what we would likely get with him as opposed to clinton. you know, the practical, facts.

i cannot even link to a definition of social justice and economic justice, which is the conversation. as i very much stay on point. what i am focusing on, because it is defining the campaigns and that is what this primary is all about. (someone mention it is only a couple days into the campaign. again, i have continually said, we are only a couple days in. we have to watch and see).

why?

cause son and i are now locking horns.... a 17 yr old boy. meh, not really. we talk and listen. wonderful skills in communication. that i have educated, accepted and embraced, encouraged his brilliance and independent thought all his life. telling me. my considerations are stupid. where would he be getting that from?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026614014

this is what i got for a simple conversation to try and start from the beginning. to re focus on the issue. the difference in social justice and economic justice. the vast majority in this thread have been fighting with me for 3 yrs, that economic justice was priority. we know each others messages.

by definition that is what sanders campaign is running on. in his own words. economic populist.

my son loves political economics and looking at going into the field, in college. he is getting his first taste. he is, what i was, at that age. we have an easy conversation with political economics. he and i have been discussing sanders since the day my son walked into the house and says, sanders is thinking about jumping into the race. he cant win. he is a socialist.

i told my son, sanders would be his candidate if he listened to what sanders says.

he is now a solid supporter. first time voter.

dont tell me, i do not know what i am talking about, or being mean to or.... that i am saying, sanders is a racist and sexist.

as a feminist. let us hear, all the reasons this is not gonna fly. i get to start (actually, i am not feeling well, gonna lay down), because i have been doing a lot of listening and thinking over the last week. (while in pain, from a cracked tooth i didnt know about and an infection developing).

i a still not up to it and not getting in that mess. as a feminist. on a democratic progressive board. talking about our two candidates and their campaign assets. i think we can have a reasoned discussion, what i am seeing happening. and again i have to say, totally fascinating. i knew this election was going to be a real learning experience.

[TheNutcracker]

1. To the rest who reason they WANT a woman, offer them Condi Rice! Still want a woman?

[seabeyond]

3. lazy statement and not worth any kind of conversation what so ever. oh, and as predicted, nothing

to do with what i posted.

actually just an example men have been giving clinton supporters, like i said in the OP

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Your son is the first person I've heard say anything about

'voting for Clinton just because she's a woman'. There's enough diversity of opinion out there that I'm sure he's not the only one who has said it, but based on the content posted on DU and DK, that is NOT a meme being pushed by most Sanders supporters. Most that I've read see the 'defining' difference between the two is their connections to and opinions of corporate capitalism and its place in our society. Either will be good on social issues.

[seabeyond]

4. i do not imagine it has been said to you erich. no surprise there. ya think?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

5. Very little is 'said to me' directly. I'm not out in public much.

I'm speaking about everything I've read on the two websites, that's open for anyone who reads the sites to see, from supporters of Sanders or Clinton or anyone else.

[seabeyond]

6. you do not find it surprising, you might miss a post that is saying, ... gonna vote clinton cause

she is a woman?

do you think maybe that is not so much on your radar? cause really, what interest do you have voting a woman in as first pres, when you are focused on voting economic in?

priorities. we all have them. i admit mine. readily and consistently.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. Wasn't sure where you were headed with that inference.

If you had meant 'because I'm not a woman' for instance. After all, I'm not black, and I certainly had it suggested to me that I was voting for Obama because he was black.

But I do actually read a wide variety of comments on all sorts of topics, not just economics. And as a person supporting Bernie, I've been reading a lot of the Bernie-related stuff, and I simply haven't come across that particular accusation out there even at random among all other sorts of comments. Like I said, I'm sure somebody out there is saying it, but out of all the things Bernie supporters are saying, it doesn't seem to be showing up much at the moment. Bernie's hair isn't any sort of priority of mine, but I've seen entire threads dedicated to mocking Bernie for not combing his hair.

[seabeyond]

12. ok. you have not seen it. i have and i have addressed it. further, ... one of my examples is a

video i listened to yesterday. and it absolutely was in the discussion. a total dismissal the fact she would be a first woman president and the significance of. it is not only on the board, but it is a part of the conversation. and so subtle, again. .... bit it is simply not something you are picking up on.

it probably is not that little jab, that calls attention for you.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. Again, as I said, I'm sure it's out there.

But if I were to ask you 'What percentage of the things said by Sanders supporters would you say includes the notion that people are voting specifically for Clinton 'just because she's a woman'?' what would your answer be? I'm not saying how much have I noticed, I'm asking you to tell me what percentage you personally would say you've seen that.

[seabeyond]

17. who the fuck cares erich, the number. i am not here to qualify, and i have

already done that enough in this subthread.

i mean really erich. ... all i posted, why are we talking about the number seen.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Sanders is a great guy

Who has sparked the imagination of the left, opened a door thought closed forever. He also, in my opinion, cannot win the presidency--he has a much better shot at the nomination. If Sanders wins the nomination, Republicans would have to fuck up much worse than Sarah Palin to lose. He also has to deal with the political process as it is and not how he thinks it should be. Obama has a hell of a time getting shit done. Sanders would have a much worse time dealing with a system that is broken in so many places. Clinton has vast amounts of experience with this system, and she knows how to negotiate it. She has contacts on every level of politics, including a round understanding of our foreign policy. She was trying to 'fix' healthcare over 20 years ago and was roundly rejected because of it. She's tough. She's a surviver in very dangerous political waters. That fact that she's a woman in the U.S. --a county not any more excited about women in politics, and a great deal less excited than some--is simply gravy, and precedent.


We are dealing (underneath every political opinion) with unstated Racism and sexism. People want to pretend politics are post-racial, post-sexism, when we are facing the biggest crisis challenging women's rights since Roe, and young black men are being shot in the street.

The ACA for instance is not understood, and roundly hated by the right/libertarians--who make up around half the vote. Look at RW political sights, and using the hatred and misinformation about Obama and Clinton they will be voting against them, if not for, any actual candidate.

So while Sanders fits closer to my personal political nirvana, and he's by no means radical enough when it gets right down to it, at this point I don't believe he can deliver what he's talking about. I believe Clinton can.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

9. You do realize Sanders has been in Congress for quite a while, right?

Clinton has vast amounts of experience with this system, and she knows how to negotiate it.

Sanders has more experience with the system, and has been dealing with 'the political process as it is', as can be seen in his improvements to the ACA, for a long time. I don't know where this meme that he is going to be 'unable to deal with' Republicans. Heck, according to the stats we keep seeing thrown out, there are 36 Dems 'more liberal' than he is, based on votes. He's not some wild-eyed radical, but a very pragmatic fellow.

[ismnotwasm]

13. I absolutely understand that

I like him, he simply doesn't have the depth and breadth of experience Clinton has. My personal Rep. is one of the last of the old liberal lions, Jim McDemott. He has a voting record similar to Sanders and has been around forever. I adore him. If he were to run even without the "socialist" baggage (another completely misunderstood term, and that is almost criminaly unfortunate) I would say the same thing.

[seabeyond]

16. yes. that is a strong position/assest for him. his decades in congress. nt

[seabeyond]

14. i have considered what sanders wants, and what he will be able to do. even if hired,

there is then the implementation. you are right there. part of reality that i think some will become disppointed with. personally, i sit more pragmatically with that. i think it would be really interesting to see the results of a win, and who knows. but i would not then be cricifying him, cause of the broken system you speak.

others may. that seems to be the pitch, consistently.

another point you make, that is excellent. like i told son to listen to sanders, i am now telling him, listen to clinton. we have been fed such garbage, that many of us are not correct, in our assumptions. we need to really look at her past, what she has done said and voted. i know i need the education. i simply did not want here way back when, for the simple fact another clinton. and i thought we had more chance with obama. i really am uneducated with clinton, and that is never ok in my book.

also, another point. she is independent, finally. not supporting another voice, but in her own power. she was first bills wife. then an employee of obama. i want to see what she says, without having to .... keep in mind anothers opinion.

[ismnotwasm]

18. I think bottom line is we have two great candidates

One has a proven track record of fighting for women all over the globe and pro-women voting record, the other has a consistently pro-woman voting record.

[seabeyond]

19. yes, he has a consistent pro social issue voting record. yes, i can enthusiastically vote either. nt

[seabeyond]

10. here's an example. when i hear that we have a state senator in texas? stating that women carry dead

fetus's after 20 months, cause shit happens and we are to "endure" what life hands us. not allowed an abortion.

i want an advocate. and that is with both candidates. i want then to be vocal and outraged and call it what it is. wrong. call attention ot it and decry it.

i do not shrug at womens issues

[seabeyond]

11. here is another. a good video in that group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017263243

Henry Giroux: Liberalism's Failures in a Time of Increasing Violence, Racism, Inequality and State..

i only listened to the first video, 20 something minutes. he made the statement about people voting for clinton cause woman... can you believe?

yet when he is discussing the social ills. it was everyone but women. really, not a thought or consideration to what is legally, by state happening to women.

i am not like being so easily dismissed.

[dawg]

20. There's a big difference between voting for a candidate because she's a woman and ...

voting for a candidate because you think she'll be a fierce advocate for women's issues.

[ismnotwasm]

21. +1000

[seabeyond]

23. thank you. yes. this is the point i did not make well. nt

[geek tragedy]

22. because of course this country's politics has been driven

by the unfair advantage women have enjoyed at the ballot box and their severe overrepresentation in our political system.

He'll get smarter, eventually. Not all do, though.

[BainsBane]

24. Guns

If his record is as bad as this article makes it sound, it's a non-starter for me. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie_sanders_on_guns_vermont_independent_voted_against_gun_control_for.html

How can one rail against Wall Street while supported immunity from tort liability for gun manufacturers?
How can one claim to be anti-war while voting to arm the domestic war that has killed more Americans since 1968 than all the wars in US history combined?

[seabeyond]

25. it is interesting. this is what had me thinking with my particular issue, as i saw

a very focused narrow campaign developing.

i am not AS hard ass on the gun issue. and yes. that is a big one for you.

true.

[DonCoquixote]

26. The sad fact is

people from all sides will want to do everything BUT have a debate based on facts...There is a lot of Emotion on all sides, for a varuiety of reasons both fair and foul.