I know it's pointless, but here it is anyway: The Gun Report

[pscot]

Some parts of Chicago have become so violent that the city has earned a new nickname: “Chiraq,” a reference to last decade’s bloody military quagmire in the Persian Gulf. The moniker has been floating around for the past couple of years, but in the Daily Beast this week, Michael Daly explores the crescendo of gun violence plaguing the city’s black neighborhoods.

Over Easter weekend, 45 people were shot, at least nine of them fatally. Five kids between the ages of 11 and 15 were seriously wounded in a playground after leaving church. A Facebook spat culminated in the shootings deaths of two teenagers.

The weekend before, 37 people were shot, and the F.B.I. director, James Comey, who happened to be in town, blamed the deeply ingrained gang culture for the violence. While there are more than 600 gang factions, Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said the problem is the availability of guns.

“Until we do something about guns, don’t expect things to change overnight,” he said, adding that police have confiscated 1,500 illegal guns so far this year, but those arrested for such infractions are soon back on the street. “If you don’t go to jail for gun possession, you continue to carry guns,” McCarthy said. And thorough policing can only do so much in the absence of effective gun laws.

(more, much more)

http://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/the-gun-report-april-25-2014/

[billh58]

1. This one line says it all:

"While there are more than 600 gang factions, Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said the problem is the availability of guns."

The ease with which guns are available all over this country is the direct result of the right-wing gun lobby's efforts to use fear and hate to market guns and increase sales with no regard for public safety or welfare.

[pscot]

2. Yeah. i noticed that too

[doc03]

3. I thought Chicago had the strictest guns laws in the nation n/t

[pscot]

4. Aswan dam is one of the world's largest

but the waters of the Nile just flow out beneath the sands or evaporate into the dry desert air. Like water, guns flood regions of lax regulation and overflow into regions that try to regulate them.

[billh58]

6. That's the slight-of-hand

talking point used by Second Amendment absolutists and NRA apologists to declare that "gun control doesn't work." The real story is that lax gun laws in nearby areas serve to negate sensible Chicago gun control regulations:

Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/

The right-wing gun lobby uses fear and hate to promote gun sales, as evidenced by lax gun laws in states with gullible, right-wing populations.

[doc03]

8. Why doesn't Columbus have as serious a problem then? n/t

[billh58]

9. Why doesn't Honolulu?

Did you read the stats about the guns recovered by the Chicago police?

Forty three percent of the guns seized by law enforcement in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. And even if the state had stricter gun laws, Illinois is not an island either. The remaining fifty seven percent of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi.

100% of the crime guns used/seized came from outside of Chicago. Other studies have shown that in places where there are sensible gun regulations in place, crime guns come from places where gun laws are lax. Gun laws DO work, but people like you gunners just have to help the right-wing flood our streets with more and more guns, because you believe that everybody should have, or wants, fucking guns.

[doc03]

10. Columbus is surrounded by guns, so is Pittsburgh

and many other cities. They don't have problems as serious as Chicago.

[billh58]

11. The whole USA is surrounded

by guns thanks to NRA apologists and the right-wing gun lobby, and ALL gun violence is a "serious problem" regardless of the city or state.

Other than attempting to disrupt this Group, why are you posting here since you obviously do not want to contribute to the discussion about how to implement meaningful gun control in this country?

In case you have forgotten, this Group was formed so that those of us who disagree with people like you and your Gungeoneer Second Amendment extremist friends would not need to be subject to your venom.

[pipoman]

12. or answer tough questions plaguing your positions...

[billh58]

13. Your idea of a

"tough question" comes right from the marketing department of the right-wing gun lobby and the NRA as a tool to sell even more lethal weapons.

The really tough question is what can we do to significantly reduce 30,000 needless deaths, and over 100,000 injuries a year from gun violence. A number which is by far many orders of magnitude above the rest of the "civilized" world, and an embarrassment to a majority of Americans who do NOT own or worship guns.

No, your kind don't want to talk about that do you Bubba?

[pipoman]

14. I'll talk about it at length. ..but of course if i don't say what you

Want to hear, I'll be banned, eh? Lol...self congratulatory circle jerk noted...

[billh58]

15. This Group's SOP:

"Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations."

You're looking for the Gungeon which is down the hall, and to the Right...

[Hoyt]

5. And what will we do about guns? -- manufacture and sell another 100 million to yahoos by 2024.

That's 100 million we'll have to do something about when we wise up like Australia in 1996. Until then, we'll sit on our rears coddling gun fanciers, most of whom are white/right wing nuts.

[billh58]

7. +100 n/t

[jimmy the one]

16. ignoring the stink in their own backyards

doc: Columbus is surrounded by guns, so is Pittsburgh and many other cities. They don't have problems as serious as Chicago.

A meaningless remark, as you will see:

2006 Crime rates per 100,000 People (rape not avail for chi):
....PROGUN Memphis, TN ........ Chicago, IL
Murder: ...........21.6 ...............16.4 <<<<< ~20 in 2012
Robbery: .........780.1 ..............555.1
Aggr Asslt: .....1125.2 ..............610.4
Burglary:....... 2416.2 ..............845.2
Larceny: ........4955.1 .............2930.1
Auto Theft: ......986.9 ..............763.8
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=memphis&s1=TN&c2=chicago&s2=IL

murder rates,2011:
PROGUN MISSOURI, kansas city.. 23.4
PROGUN GEORGIA (atlanta):......... 20.7
PROGUN new orleans murder rate:.. 57.6
PROGUN Miami florida.............. 16.8
PROGUN St Louis............................ 35.3
............Chicago murder rate:.......... 15.9 <<< 2012 ~20

So what's your point doc? You can cite certain cities with lower crime rates than Chicago, but that doesn't excuse progun cities with higher or parity rates.
And Chicago's murder rate has dropped by half since circa 1990's, from near 1000 down to about 400 - 500 today, ALL WHILE EMBRACING GUNCONTROL.

[jimmy the one]

17. chicago murder totals

Last edited Mon Apr 28, 2014, 02:40 PM - Edit history (2)

1965: 395
1973: 864 CHICAGO MURDER TOTALS BY YEAR
1974: 970
1981: 877
1982: 668; chicago handgun ban goes in effect due high murder rate
CHICAGO, April 12, 1982— The {handgun ban} ordinance, which took effect Friday, freezes the number of legally registered pistols in the city and outlaws further ownership.
.. the upshot is that the 668 murders in 1982 were a DROP from the 877 in 1981, & the ban was in effect in 1982 for 9 months. The first year was effective (so was DC's) but then thugs discovered ways to bypass the handgun ban.
1983: 729
1984: 741
1985: 666
1986: 744
1987: 691
1988: 660
1989: 742
1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855 Chicago's AWB (cook co) enacted 1993
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633 (CHICAGO MURDER TOTALS BY YEAR)
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435 ....... handguns allowed in chicago after McDonald decision by scalia
2012: 506 .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

Chicago had an outright ban on handguns from 1982 until 2010, when the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. So there’s no reason to believe that strict regulations on gun ownership were responsible for a spike in gun homicides in 2012, two years after Chicago was forced to loosen its gun laws. Moreover, there’s simply no credible evidence that wider gun ownership or looser gun laws reduce crime. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/15/1599631/no-chicago-isnt-proof-that-gun-regulation-doesnt-work/

Chicago’s gun laws aren’t the cause of the recent uptick in violence, nor does it prove that gun regulations are ineffectual. If anything, it underscores the need for tighter federal laws.
.. Most significantly, it is important to understand that Chicago is not an island. Although Chicago has historically had strict gun laws, laws in the surrounding parts of Illinois were much laxer — enabling middlemen to supply the criminals in Chicago with guns they purchased elsewhere. 43% of the guns seized by {cops} in Chicago were originally purchased in other parts of Illinois. The remaining 57% of Chicago guns all came from out of state, most significantly from nearby Indiana and distant Mississippi — neither of which are known for their strict gun laws.

[billh58]

18. According to Second Amendment

absolutists and NRA apologists these numbers can't be accurate, because everyone knows that more guns = less gun violence. Damned Liberal statistics...

[CTyankee]

19. looks like our friends from the Gungeon took your advice, went down the hall and

to the RIGHT

I wonder who it is they think they are fooling.

[billh58]

20. I'm not sure just who they

think they are fooling, but judging by the responses I see on DU to their attempts to defend the NRA and gunners like Zimmerman, I'm pretty sure that they're not fooling many Liberal Democrats.

[jimmy the one]

21. chicago vs houston in super bowl shootout

Chicago is one of their favorite punching bags, for '45 gun woundings in one weekend with 9 dead' sounds horrible for an American city. Gun crowd doesn't like to relate this in relative terms tho, don't like to remind readers that Chicago is the third largest city in America behind nyc & LA, so that, logically, they will tend to have higher total volume of crimes.

What reads worse? Chicago has 45 shootings & 9 dead, or Richmond Va has 5 shootings & 2 dead? well Richmond had the higher violent crime rate that weekend, but doesn't sound as bad as Chicago, does it?

Here is a comparison between then handgun banner Chicago & pro gun Houston texas:

2006 Crimes per 100,000 People (rape n/a for chicago):
.........Houston, TX ...........Chicago, IL
Murder:........ 18.2 ..............16.4 <<<< ~20, 2012
Robbery: ......548.3 .............555.1
Aggr Asslt: ...561.7 .............610.4
Burglary: ....1295.7 .............845.2
Larceny: .....3524.6 ............2930.1
Vehicle: .....1017.2 .............763.8

By RATE, Chicago & Houston are at parity for violent crime of murder robb & aggr assault, while Houston has significantly higher rates of property crime of burg & vehicle theft.
Below are actual crime totals, & remember Chicago has 3/4 million more peeps.

Actual Reported Population and Crimes:
........... Houston, TX ...........Chicago, IL
Population: 2,073,729 .............2,857,796
Murder: ..........377 ...................468
Robbery:....... 11371 .................15863
Aggr Asslt: ....11648................. 17445
Burglary:...... 26869 .................24153
Larceny:....... 73091 .................83737
Veh theft:......21093 .................21828
http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=memphis&s1=TN&c2=chicago&s2=IL (substitute Houston)