Do you find it insulting when someone tells you are irrational for believing?

[hrmjustin]

Posted in interfaith room

Do you find it insulting when they say you are deluded, weak minded, or mentally ill for believing?

I have to say I find it insulting.

Just because I believe does not mean that I check reason at the door, far from it. Part of my Anglican faith tradition is the three-legged stool. Scripture, tradition, and reason make up the fundamentals of my and all Anglican's faith and so many other believers. I wish that posters in the religion room would realize everytime you call us irrational it is an insult, whether meant or not.

Some in the other room also have a hard time realizing not all believers are right wing and not all of us believe the rule book 100 percent.
We are capable of choosing what makes sense to us and what does not. We also as members of this group and board have professed our politics and views as progressive/liberal. We are not right wingers despite some of the back handed comments some of us have to endure in that room. I wish some of our friends in the religion room would remember that we have feelings too and that we are not mindless idiots with a blind faith that have no doubts at all. We are human and we have doubts because it is only natural.

I have had to explain my faith over and over again here but I never question the beliefs of others in that room.

My faith is simple. I believe in the life, work, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the trinity and this is how I experience the divine. Others experience the divine in other ways and despite efforts to get me and others to say different, I do not believe they are false religions. We experience the divine in different ways. Diversity is a good thing. I do not believe in hell so I condemn no one. I put no limit on the mercy of God.

I pray for strength in this life and I offer others up in prayer to God. I do not believe in a God that desides what goes on in this world but again I put no limits on the divine. And yes I may pray for something to happen even though I know that it will not. I am human.


I write this op because I get very frustrated at how others view believers in the other room. I have no doubt that atheists in this country experience hardship many times over. I suppose because I am from NYC and a non-religious family that I don't encounter this at all but listening to what others here have said I do believe it is hard to come out as an atheist in many places. I am very sympathetic to atheists. We have some disagreements on tax exempt issues but for the most we agree on other separation of church and state issues.

I hope that people in the other room would remember we are not fools and please do not treat us as such.

[rug]

1. The intention is purely to insult.

Once that happens any substantive discussion is derailed into nonsense about whether you should be insulted. That is also intentional.

It is pure disruption. Anyone who routinely takes that tactic warrants no respect and no credibility. Anymore than any other disruptive troll.

[hrmjustin]

24. Yes some just want an argument.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Annoyed, perhaps, but not insulted...

idiotic claims are not insulting unless you want them to be.

And, yes, to claim that religion or spirituality is a delusion is idiotic. We can sit here and happily laugh at Thetans or the 6 day creation, but that some aspects of belief are a little off the wall doesn't for a minute mean all of them are. Or that some of these stories aren't to be taken literally but are allegories.

Getting away from the tyranny of a state religion is one thing, but to imply Aristotle, Siddhartha, Aquinas and Newton were fools or con men for their beliefs is a bit of a stretch.

[hrmjustin]

5. Well put my friend!

[okasha]

3. Actually, I find some of them amusing.

The fellow with the imaginary degrees, for instance. Dear Wendy, who shows up when her Lost Boys need their boo-boos kissed. The ultra-orthodox, who denounce the "accommodationists" with zeal worthy of Torquemada.

The ones I find disturbing are the stalkers and harassers. That's a problem the hosts should be dealing with, and three of them are ignoring it.

[hrmjustin]

4. I love that they say we are alert stalkers. I don't alert on anything in AA.

I alerted once and lost. If I alerted on things that annoyed me in the religion room I would be alerting every hour.

Btw I get results from people showing results on me all the time. Funny how it is only in the religion room I get alerted on.


I really need thicker skin but I don't have it.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

17. "I really need thicker skin but I don't have it."

Same here.

[hrmjustin]

18. It is a curse in that room.

[okasha]

6. I get those emails, too.

One person who alerted on one of my comments to him pasted a multi-paragraph post of his own into the reason-for-the-alert box, much to the amusement of the jurors.

[hrmjustin]

7. Lolthat happened to me once too. I could imagine who it was.

[okasha]

8. The fellow does love his own words, doesn't he?

[hrmjustin]

9. lol indeed!

To be fair I have made mistakes on alerts but never that.

[okasha]

11. I just accidentally alerted on my own post!

The screen.on this allegedly smart phone is too damn small!

[hrmjustin]

14. You can't alert on your own post any more to a jury. it goes to the admins now.

[Htom Sirveaux]

10. Yes, those things aren't exactly signs of a productive dialogue.

I handle it by putting a lot of energy into reflecting on religious/spiritual matters. Then I know that regardless of what is said about me, I can give good reasons for what I believe. The negative names you listed become mistaken opinions rather than insults, and say more about the person using them than about me.

[okasha]

12. I find that my beliefs continue to evolve.

For me, religion, like art, is something one does. And as with art, different people do it different ways. The thing I find most disturbing about the "believers are irrational" ranters is the demand for rigid conformity.

[hrmjustin]

21. I have to agree. I feel things change for me and my understanding of my faith changes.

[hrmjustin]

15. Yes they are the ones with the issue.

[No Vested Interest]

13. My view is that those who insult or deride believers are similar to right-wing

extremists, in that they are so hard-set in their opinions that dialogue in near impossible.

So, just as rational discussion is impossible for those who are completely closed-minded in politics, I just move on and don't waste my time with them.

It's a huge world with many people, many opinions and beliefs, and too little time to try to appeal to them all.

Even here on DU, there's so much I could read and reply to, why waste time and energy with disagreeable folk?

[hrmjustin]

16. You make a good point. I need to pick my battles. .

[el_bryanto]

19. If you look at it from their perspective, it makes sense

Those atheists who want to crap on believers believe they are wholly justified in fighting what they consider to be a great evil in the world today. While believers at DU might not be as problematic as right-wing believers, we do help support a culture that gives right wing beliefs credence.

Couple that with the fact that many of them probably have suffered some bigotry for their Atheism, and it's not surprising they want to crap on believers. It's pretty understandable.

That said, there's a reason I've decided to no longer show up to be crapped on. Because it doesn't stop with them thinking you are fools - the worst of them don't just think you are a fool; they think you are a willful fool who immorally clings to your religion rather than accepting the truth. That's why such atheists start with attacks on your intelligence, but regularly get around to calling you a liar as well.

I guess you provide a public service by volunteering to let them take out their frustrations on you - so good on you, but it's not for me.

Bryant

[hrmjustin]

20. I tried staying away for a week and I decided I didn't want to leave the room because there

are others I like to talk to. I could not keep them on ignore because it made being on mirt difficult because we get new posters in there every once and awhile and I need to see it. A few are getting the silent treatment for a bit longer.

I know I could improve myself in there so I need to pick my battles.

[okasha]

26. That's the same excuse one could give for fundamentalist Christians--

or fundamentalist anything else, for that matter. The fundies think teh Gay and abortion are evil, destructive behaviors, and many have a sincere desire to rescue sinners from their misguided sexual and reproductive actions. Just plug in "certain DU/ New atheists" and "religion" where appropriate, and you have exactly the same authoritarian asshats who think that their freedom entails the right to deny yours.

Same tune, different key.

[el_bryanto]

27. I would disagree a bit

First of all fundamentalist Christians like to pretend they are persecuted (and in a few very isolated examples they are), the truth is that Christians in America are doing pretty well. Their biases are catered to, they know that it's very unlikely we will see a President who isn't a Christian like them, they can express their religious beliefs in public without, for the most part, enduring any issues. Atheists as a group wield much less political and social power.

Secondly, while there are both fundamentalist Christians and New Atheists who would like to see freedom of thought curtailed, and people who think wrongly discriminated against, I think there are a lot more fundamentalist Christians who are pushing for that - definitely in flat numbers and quite possibly as a percentage as well.

That said, I do agree that some Atheists here aren't so much looking for parity with belief, but would rather have Atheism take Christianities place as being the "acceptable" position on religion.

Bryant

[Leontius]

22. Not half as much as when you finaly do tell them that yes you do have something they don't.

That really pisses them off.

[hrmjustin]

23. Sometimes I wonder if some of them really want to believe but just can not.

I wonder if some of these posters get frustrated by that.

[hrmjustin]

25. kicking.