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Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:05 PM

 

ReadyForSomeoneElse.org, for comment - draft "opening statement"

The following is a draft of what I'm thinking about for the home page of ReadyForSomeoneElse.org, as provoked by this mess. Comments deeply appreciated!

Also please let me know, via DU Mail if you'd prefer, if you have any interest in participating. I'm not sure what "participating" means, but I'm open to suggestions. The goal is to build something that helps other understand why we think that the Democratic Party needs to be overhauled, with FDR Democrats put at the helm.

=============================

No, this isn’t a site filled with pictures of Hillary with Hitler mustaches drawn in, or stories about how the Clintons had people secretly murdered, or any of that kind of stupid/crazy stuff.

This is a site maintained by Democrats who believe that nominating Hillary Clinton to be the 2016 Democratic candidate for President would be a pretty bad idea. The details of our arguments are presented on this site, but here’s the short version:

Hillary, and her fellow Third-Way Democrats have run our Party for more than 20 years. During that time, things have certainly worked out well for the wealthiest Americans – heck, they’ve never done better – but things have gone very badly for the rest of us who aren’t wealthy.

Whether you believe that Democrats or Republicans have been responsible for the rich getting richer and everyone else having to work harder to scrape by, we cannot escape the fact that Hillary and her fellow Third Wayers have led our Party during this terrible time. Either they have actively contributed to our woes, or have been unsuccessful in stopping Republicans, or (as we believe) both.

Instead of continuing the same ideas and policies that have failed us, we must return to ideas and policies that work. Ideas and policies that have worked for Americans in the past, and which continue to work in other countries where they’re followed today.

Hillary and her branch of the Democratic Party represent a failed past; it seems obvious that a different future is needed to turn things around for the rest of Americans, for those of us who aren’t wealthy.


Questions and Answers
Q: Aren’t you just telling people why they should vote for the Republican in 2016 if Hillary’s the nominee?
A: No. We think Hillary as the nominee is a bad idea for many reasons, but it’s almost impossible to conceive of a Republican nominee that would be better for America. If Hillary is the nominee, we will vote for her; slow decline is preferable to quick decline. The exception would be if there’s another candidate who 1) has a track record of fighting for traditional Democratic values and 2)has a reasonable chance of winning the election.

Q: Aren’t you just creating ammunition for Republicans to use if Hillary’s the nominee?
A: It’s pretty hard to believe that a few of us messing around on a web site in our spare time will be able to unearth any information that the Republicans won’t be able to obtain on their own with many millions to spend on “opposition research” and so forth.

49 replies, 4041 views

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply ReadyForSomeoneElse.org, for comment - draft "opening statement" (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 OP
Dragonfli Feb 2015 #1
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #2
MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #3
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #6
merrily Feb 2015 #40
rhett o rick Feb 2015 #4
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #7
rhett o rick Feb 2015 #30
demwing Feb 2015 #8
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #11
demwing Feb 2015 #14
JDPriestly Feb 2015 #27
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #35
Scuba Feb 2015 #5
MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #9
merrily Feb 2015 #41
demwing Feb 2015 #10
rhett o rick Feb 2015 #36
Cryptoad Feb 2015 #12
MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #13
Cryptoad Feb 2015 #18
MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #20
Dragonfli Feb 2015 #22
Cryptoad Feb 2015 #23
Dragonfli Feb 2015 #24
Cryptoad Feb 2015 #25
sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #33
Dragonfli Feb 2015 #21
PosterChild Feb 2015 #15
whereisjustice Feb 2015 #32
Corruption Inc Feb 2015 #16
demwing Feb 2015 #17
PosterChild Feb 2015 #19
whereisjustice Feb 2015 #26
JDPriestly Feb 2015 #28
JDPriestly Feb 2015 #29
whereisjustice Feb 2015 #31
Scuba Feb 2015 #34
rhett o rick Feb 2015 #37
whereisjustice Feb 2015 #39
whereisjustice Feb 2015 #38
merrily Feb 2015 #42
Dems to Win Feb 2015 #43
VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #44
antiquie Mar 2015 #45
semanticwikiian Mar 2015 #46
semanticwikiian Mar 2015 #48
semanticwikiian Mar 2015 #47
NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #49

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:12 PM

1. Simple and clear, therefore hard to misrepresent.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:30 PM

2. Why define yourself by nothing more than what your hate? n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:44 PM

3. "we must return to ideas and policies that work"

 

"Ideas and policies that have worked for Americans in the past, and which continue to work in other countries where they’re followed today."

The intent is to start with the obvious, that Hillary and the Third Way have failed, then to lay out the details on what worked in the past later on in the site.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:05 PM

6. Okay.n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:24 PM

40. You do lead with Hillary though, rather than with who "we" are.

IMO, starting with "We are Democrats who......" would not hurt. Just a sentence or two would do it.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:58 PM

4. Why label it as hate? We all love HRC, just think it would harm the 99%

 

if she is elected president. It's nothing personal. Does calling it hate justify your feelings?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:10 PM

7. I didn't mention HRC ...

 

I was thinking Why define what is wanted (policy-wise) in terms of what you don't want (policy-wise).

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:52 AM

30. Well one of us thinks you are very clever. nm

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:43 PM

8. Opposition is not hate

 

and when the PsTB start pushing Hillary's "inevitability" meme, the proper response is to show opposition.

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Response to demwing (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:01 PM

11. Okay. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:18 PM

14. glad you agree.../NT

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:55 AM

27. Where is the hate? It isn't hate. It's wanting to win not just for the Democratic

Party but most important for working people in America.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:42 AM

35. Okay. n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 09:28 PM

5. It's a decent start, but to edit is human ....

 

I'd like to see a couple other issues besides economics, or perhaps a fleshing out of the economics issues ...

... Enriching and expanding Social Security, where Hillary is influenced by Pete Peterson

... TPP, which Hillary backs

... H1B Visas, which Hillary wants more of

... Pipelines and other energy policies, where Hillary has promoted pipelines and is influenced by Big Oil

... Defense spending and military intervention, where Hillary was a champion for the Iraq war


In any regard, I appreciate the work, the activism and the focus electing a candidate who will help America improve rather than just taking the easiest path to winning the next election and getting more of the same bad policies.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:45 PM

9. All good points

 

I don't want to get bogged down on the home page, but it might be good to add some bullet points with some of her far-right positions.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:26 PM

41. You don't have to get bogged down on the home page. You can always link.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:47 PM

10. Time to bring back this post: "A Platform to Affirm Fundamental Human Rights"

 

Surely this could be adapted to your uses?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1277809

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Response to demwing (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 10:31 AM

36. Thank you for that. That thread should be pinned. nm

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)


Response to Cryptoad (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:15 PM

13. Can you be specific?

 

Or delete your post? This is a fact-based group on DU, accusations must have evidence.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:41 PM

18. Common Knowledge does not have to be cited....

What I stated is self evident

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:51 PM

20. Sorta like why we knew when we invaded Iraq

 

we'd be welcome as liberators, etc.

Got it.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:02 AM

22. Yes it is and I said you could simply end what is self evident

What I don't get is why you came here just to point out your own behavior, you are very odd little attack monkey aren't you?

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:06 AM

23. No need for personal attacks, heh?

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:15 AM

24. No I really do find you odd my observation was not meant as an attack

I can see how you would take it that way, a blunt appraisal of your behavior is most unflattering.

You could just stop you know. Nonetheless, your coming here just to point out your bad behavior makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:24 AM

25. lol

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:54 AM

33. Do you have anything you would like to contribute to making this a better country?

This group is about Democrats getting back to their Working Class roots.

It's about no longer enabling the party to keep moving further to the Right.

It's about providing candidates for the voters that they can relate TO and who can relate to THEM.

Hillary is a hawk. She is a corporate candidate.

Her domestic policies lean towards the right, other than the obligatory ones that are required in order to qualify as a Dem, Minorities (women, gays and other minorities). Other than tose few issues, she is for all intents and purposes FOR issues that Dem voters oppose.

Not to mention that the people should have a say in who their prospective employees are going to be.

People want a choice. They do not want people we do know, picking THE candidate behind close doors.

That is not a democratic process.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:58 PM

21. Then stop. /nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:19 PM

15. I think you should feature....

....actual alternative candidates and their records / policies, links to their websites, etc. As opposed to just going negative on HRC. Also, drop the defensive FAQ of justifications for your effort. You don't need justification . .. everyone is entitled to advocate for the alternatives they believe best.

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Response to PosterChild (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:32 AM

32. Agree, and definately should drop the FAQ, it is distracting/defensive

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:35 PM

17. Pin of the week

 

thanks for this post Manny, it will stay pinned for as long as you want it to

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:49 PM

19. Just brainstorming here...

....start a site called "Ready for FDR", then feature FDR policies, positions, and quotes along with potential candidates that would support or fit that policy perspectve.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:31 AM

26. I'd put TPP as perhaps the single most important distinction between Democrats and their Party...

all the knowledge about jobs creation, yet we are creating more incentives to send jobs to Asia
all the knowledge about the regulations and environment, yet we are forming corporate tribunals to settle regulatory disputes
all the knowledge about how our children are being tortured in schools while their jobs are sent to Asia at $2/day
all the knowledge about corporate corruption and yet we are letting them write and fast track this piece of shit legislation

WE ARE GOING FUCKING BACKWARDS!

Democrats have been dealt a staggering, traitorous betrayal by their own Leadership.

Washington needs to be scrubbed down with disinfectant and fire hoses.


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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:58 AM

28. tks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:58 AM

29. K&R.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:17 AM

31. fwiw, here's my edit, flog away

Hillary, and her fellow Third-Way Democrats have run our Party for more than 20 years. During that time, things have certainly worked out well for the wealthiest Americans – heck, they’ve never done better – but clearly things haven't gone so well for everyone else.

Whether you believe that Democrats or Republicans have been responsible for the rich getting richer and everyone else having to work harder to scrape by, we cannot escape the fact that Hillary and her fellow Third Wayers have led our Party during this terrible time. Not only has the Third Way been ineffective at stopping Republicans, we believe they have actively contributed to our hardship by focusing exclusively on the wealthiest Americans. It's no surprise that the rest of us are falling behind.

Instead of continuing the same ideas and policies that have failed us, we must return to ideas and policies proven to work, for everyone. These are "road ready" ideas and policies that have created stability and wealth for Americans in the past and which continue to work in other countries where they’re followed today.

The richest Americans don't need more help from us. For the rest of America, a new future is needed to turn things around. Hillary and her branch of the Democratic Party represent a failed past.

==============================

Might be good to add some footnotes?

The latest data reinforce the larger story of America’s middle class household wealth stagnation over the past three decades. The Great Recession destroyed a significant amount of middle-income and lower-income families’ wealth, and the economic “recovery” has yet to be felt for them. Without any palpable increase in their wealth since 2010, middle- and lower-income families’ wealth levels in 2013 are comparable to where they were in the early 1990s.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/business/the-typical-household-now-worth-a-third-less.html?_r=0

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/17/wealth-gap-upper-middle-income/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?abt=0002&abg=0


on edit - ok, maybe not so great. That'll teach me about top of my heading. But might stimulate some more ideas.

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:48 AM

34. There's good stuff there. Thanks for taking the time and effort.

 

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 10:37 AM

37. Thanks for the post. I think we should have a pinned thread here that details the damage

 

done to the lower classes in the last 30 years. If we are going to win this war on the 99% we need to be able to quote statistics about the state we are in now. Looks like you've gotten a good start. Like to know what you think.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:11 AM

39. Excellent idea. Won't be hard to find the supporting evidence at this point. I'll try to dig up a

few things for a start.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:03 AM

38. "Hard choices have to be made to bring back opportunity for all Americans. We need somebody other

than Hillary"

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 07:36 PM

42. Great opening salvo Manny.

I think you/we need to ask people to be involved in some way though, to get energized. Calling the DLC and/or their state party, etc.

Supporting Bernie or joining the draft Warren movement, suggesting other potential nominees, calling the DLC and/or the party of their state, contacting the website with suggestions, whatever.

Who "we" are, why "we" are, what you can do are the main areas I see. Part of why "we" are is that Hillary seems to have little to no serious competition, esp. from the left. I would bet maybe 80% of Democrats don't even know that yet.

Also, think about making it less Hillary specific, either now, or after the primary ends. You may well want to make this site last longer than this one primary. I have a sneaking suspicion "we" may be ready for someone else for longer than one cycle.

Once you get the main message going, promoting the site will require attention. Even the best site in the world cannot be effective unless people know about it.

I will post more if and when something else occurs to me

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:45 PM

43. Since 2002, no Dem who voted Yes on the Iraq War has won the presidency

 

Kerry couldn't spin his Yes on the Iraq War vote sufficiently to inspire the Democrats deeply angry and bitter about that war to cast ballots for him. They didn't vote for Bush, of course, but enough failed to cast a ballot for him that he lost the race.

My sis-in-law absolutely will not vote for Hillary due to her Iraq War vote, and she lives in a swing state. Anecdotes are not data, of course, but I fear if the Democrats nominate someone that my SIL, a reliable member of the Democratic base, refuses to vote for, the Dems will lose.

Hillary's Iraq War vote is a BIG part of the opposition to her candidacy. I suggest making it a prominent part of your pitch for Someone Else -- the Democrats can't win with a candidate tainted with a Yes vote on the Iraq War Resolution.

Another issue: Low turnout elections are won by the Repubs. I can't imagine a more surefire recipe for a historically low turnout election than a Clinton - Bush mashup. Disgusted anti-dynasty voters will stay home in droves. If Dems want to win, we MUST find Someone Else!

I'm Ready for Barbara Lee.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Wed Feb 18, 2015, 06:24 PM

44. All I can say is...

 

Please do...and take a bunch of the other malcontents with you!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Mar 3, 2015, 07:41 PM

45. Nice start on the site.

 

I like the format.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 12, 2015, 03:31 PM

46. A different slant

 

Though I've written several times (once so acerbically my login was banned) of my distaste for HRC, I'm not crazy about the focus of your main page. My criticism is that it's not HRC we disdain, it is the 3rdWay that we disdain. HRC is merely their latest cardboard pop-up candidate; if she were to decide not to run (unlikely) then the 3rdWay would simply put up another pop-up. So it is the 3rdWay that is the target here not HRC herself.

What I envision is a mainpage that promotes "tell me more" surfing on the site. Your current model seems to say all your message, so there's no strong push/pull to cause further surfing. That imho is a significant problem with the current design.

How about this - a rogues gallery of 3rdWay-supported candidates - pictures pictures pictures. If I see my guy/gal there, you can be sure I'll surf the site's greater detail. Under HRC's picture, put something clever like "Office: POTUS, 2016-2022" together with a "danger icon" with the hottest chili rating you can find.

How about a rogues gallery of the corporate/non-profit sponsors of the 3rdWay? Logos easily catch eyeballs.

How about a gallery of 3rdWay-supported policies - show pictures of people HURT by these policies, not some jackass pretty picture - show PAIN.

Finally, have a blog of blogs about "the systematic neutering of the Democratic Party by 3rdWay"

Bottom line I think it would be more useful to focus on the 3rdWay in general than HRC in particular.
good luck.

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Response to semanticwikiian (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 12, 2015, 03:50 PM

48. another graphical device

 

Maybe show a map of the USA with states-in-black that are in some fashion infected by the disease of 3rdWay people, policies and-or sponsors. A rogues gallery then might only include 3rdWayers in the Federal Government.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 12, 2015, 03:42 PM

47. i like the faq - it's a critical CONTEXT statement for the site

 

the first one that is, with a link to 'more faqs'. the second one there should be on another page.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Mar 17, 2015, 04:30 PM

49. The only nit I would pick with this is the double mention of HRC.

 

I hate to even acknowledge her and would prefer a statement that manages the same message without using her name.

In any event, good job!

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