HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Politics & Government » Populist Reform of the Democratic Party (Group) » I'm taking stock.

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:09 PM

I'm taking stock.

Last edited Sun May 3, 2015, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

This post is my personal view, reflecting my personal perceptions. Yours may differ.

Not so long ago, media was pretending that Obama was about as far left as any politician could be.

Not so long ago, media was not admitting that that the Democratic Party had at least two different factions.

Not so long ago, media was not admitting that there was anything to the left of the Democratic Party (not sure they are yet).

Not so long ago, I had little to no hope that the country would wake up to takeover of the Democratic Party by New Democrats.

Not so long ago, Democratic candidates sought and/or were grateful for the endorsement of the DLC.

Not so long ago, populist messaging was ONLY for campaigning, if that.

Not so long ago, the left of DU was feeling very lonely and very silent to me.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026603293

Not so long ago, the left of DU was not showing a lot of unity, a lot of solidarity.

Not so long ago, DU's left was being driven off or leaving DU by choice. (If you are lurking: we miss you.)

Not so long ago, DU had no populist group and no Sanders group.

I see encouraging change in all the above.

Even though this Op is about my personal perceptions, I welcome your comments.

43 replies, 3370 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm taking stock. (Original post)
merrily May 2015 OP
LiberalElite May 2015 #1
merrily May 2015 #5
L0oniX May 2015 #2
merrily May 2015 #6
L0oniX May 2015 #7
merrily May 2015 #12
NYC_SKP May 2015 #3
merrily May 2015 #9
tularetom May 2015 #4
merrily May 2015 #11
blm May 2015 #8
merrily May 2015 #10
blm May 2015 #15
merrily May 2015 #16
blm May 2015 #17
merrily May 2015 #18
blm May 2015 #20
merrily May 2015 #21
blm May 2015 #25
merrily May 2015 #26
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #29
merrily May 2015 #30
merrily May 2015 #19
Jackpine Radical May 2015 #27
blm May 2015 #31
sabrina 1 May 2015 #38
blm May 2015 #39
sabrina 1 May 2015 #40
blm May 2015 #42
Nite Owl May 2015 #36
merrily May 2015 #37
Doctor_J May 2015 #33
blm May 2015 #35
sabrina 1 May 2015 #41
blm May 2015 #43
MannyGoldstein May 2015 #13
merrily May 2015 #14
Demeter May 2015 #22
whereisjustice May 2015 #23
merrily May 2015 #24
dreamnightwind May 2015 #34
Lifelong Protester May 2015 #28
Cosmic Kitten May 2015 #32

Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:11 PM

1. The pendulum is swinging back nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalElite (Reply #1)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:20 PM

5. That is another thing: a friend who is very knowledgeable about politics was

quite content with the Party as it was "not so long ago." When I became discontented with it, he assured me that the pendulum always swings back. While I wanted to believe him, I couldn't let myself hope. Everything seemed so stacked against it, from the Party itself to media to money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:13 PM

2. Ok ...I am so stealing this for song lyrics.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to L0oniX (Reply #2)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:21 PM

6. Oh good. Royalties!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #6)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:23 PM

7. You are already DU royalty.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to L0oniX (Reply #7)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:56 PM

12. Awww, thanks.

But, I still want a cut.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:15 PM

3. Something happened to bring us together.

 

We've always been here but we were scattered, I guess.

The past 7 years have been fighting for and against Obama, and in defense and offense about our top issues.

And then I think things have gotten so bad, we agree to disagree about Obama and see something frightening on the horizon, for our party.

And we all said, No. Enough.

This fight is a fight for all of us.

~Peace~

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:38 PM

9. "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

We were, I think, cowed into silence by the orchestrated message control, each of us feeling as though we were a small, endangered minority at DU.

We may still be endangered. For example, yesterday, an OP of mine that consisted of nothing more than a link to Daily Kos article was alerted on. True, the vote to leave it was unanimous--perhaps another kind of change from "not so long ago." However, one of the jurors tied his or her "leave" vote to the fact that the OP had been posted only in the Sanders Group! Even still, though, the vote was unanimous to leave.

This fight is a fight for all of us.


Exactly. Very well said. Stop worrying about having the back of any mullt-millionaire President protected by the Secret Service, MSNBC or FOX, as the case may be, and a staff of thousands, plus power and contacts up the yin yang.

Start worrying about whether you and your neighbor can afford a college education for your kids. Even more so, worry about whether you or your neighbor will succeed on gofundme if you lose your job and cannot find another. You know, when you or your neighbor cease to be part of that middle class of whic politicians seem* so fond and become part of the poor class that politicians prefer to pretend is non-existent. And, heaven forbid, if you are both poor and African American or Hispanic.

Stop letting divide and conquer keep you and your neighbor from focusing on what is rightfully yours.

*seem so fond. A lot of lip service is given the middle class--almost none to the poor--but Sanders said he believes the middle class could disappear entirely in another generation. At that point, most of us will be poor, the group that most political rhetoric is already excluding.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:17 PM

4. Agree with all the not-so-long-agos about the media

But I never thought that DU had completely abandoned a commitment to the middle class and populist/progressive ideals.

I'd have been gone from here long ago if I believed that.

I agree, things are looking up and will continue to improve as people begin to realize that there really is no "third way". You're either for us or you're for the people who are fucking us over.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tularetom (Reply #4)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:46 PM

11. "I never thought that DU had completely abandoned a commitment to the middle class"

I did not say I thought that. I did, however, think there was a move among politicians to pretend the poor either don't exist or don't deserve.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:25 PM

8. I've been here since early days and the left voice has always dominated DU.

It just might not feel like it sometimes. But, it is most definitely the loudest voice here at DU. Left principles have NEVER been abandoned here. Never.

There are many on the left to center-left who have felt pushed away here, and, indeed, they did depart this site. Their perceptions were real to them, too. Abusive behavior can do that…..that is why this site attracts so many RW operatives posing as lefties, pushing every button they know to push.

Added fairness to DU….Not too many here ever thought Obama was a dream liberal - we voted for him knowing full well his record was center-left. The alternative is the absolutely unacceptable full-on fascism of the GOP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #8)

Sun May 3, 2015, 09:43 PM

10. You and tularetom both use the term" abandoned" in connection with DU. I did not.

that is why this site attracts so many RW operatives posing as lefties, pushing every button they know to push.


That, too, is not my perception. The operative swarm I have seen all along is composed of posters who are unabashedly Third Way, Stepford party liners, etc.

we voted for him knowing full well his record was center-left.


Not terribly relevant to me at this point, but also not my perception. I see so many posters saying they thought otherwise. And he certainly did nothing to emphasize his centrism until after his first election. At that point, he said, once, in a meeting with Reps, that he was a New Democrat. Not anything he said while campaigning. And he did not say he was akin to a moderate Republican of the 1980s until after his second election. But, again, this is not about Obama. He will not ask me for my vote again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #10)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:00 PM

15. I was adding my view of DU to what you offered.

You said you'd welcome comments.

By the tone of your reply it sounds like you resent my comments, but, I can't imagine why. I try to maintain a down to earth approach in all my comments here at DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #15)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:00 PM

16. No resentment. No tone. Just pointing out how my perception differs from yours.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #16)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:04 PM

17. Just offering the longview, mer.

Three presidential primaries since 2001. There's been a lot of ups and downs, but, DU's left voice and core principles are unchanged. In fact, they're louder.

Reread your comment about Obama's center-left leanings. Most here followed Obama's votes in the senate, and watched his appearances in interviews as senator, prior to his primary candidacy. It was apparent to us that he was only center-left and posted about it at that time - mine were quite bitchy about it, and disappointed, actually. That was 2005-6. And why many of us never expected him to be a liberal savior. Not here at DU at election time. We were extremely happy he won, however. The alternative would have been EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTING. And even FATAL for this earth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #17)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:08 PM

18. Again, not my perception or the perception of many on DUs left, but I appreciate knowing yours.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #18)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:35 PM

20. Well, I'd say many of us lefty old-timers here at DU are not so quick to jump in and mix it up

the same way others are here. Three presidential primaries here can do that to a member. I'd bet my house that many of them share my 'perception' of the longview here at DU - one that acknowledges DU's steady commitment to progressive principles. Roadbumps here and there, but, all in all a steady ride.

We always manage to steady the place….going forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #20)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:42 PM

21. I know very long time DUers who left or were banned who agree with me. I also know of them by

reading at other sites. I am in communication with some of them by email and pm. Some of old time DUers who share my views still post here.

So I, too, have other support for my perception besides what I personally have witnessed. In fact, the comments and perceptions of others, as well as my own observations, helped form "my" perception.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #21)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:00 AM

25. mer, there are ALOT of DU members….Many who haven't contacted you and don't know you.


I get that you feel the left hasn't had a voice here, but, that thread of support for Sanders was posted by a longtime DU pal of mine, and many old-time DUers jumped into that thread to express support. The essence of DU is IN that thread. You may be only feeling that essence now, but, for many of us, we've accepted the ups and downs here long ago, knowing that DU's commitment to Democratic principles remains strong as ever….even stronger, imo.


Kinda sad that you that you don't want to believe that DU has long been a haven for the left….the entire spectrum of the left. Even lefties like me…..and who still can appreciate the alliance and the votes from the rest of the left to center spectrum. Every one of them. Especially at election time. This is Democratic Underground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #25)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:04 AM

26. Jaysus.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #21)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:36 AM

29. You mean the people who were--uh--

treed? (Or is that too obscure?)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #29)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:46 AM

30. Not too obscure for me.

And I see you're no newbie yourself, yet what I am saying does not seem to be totally foreign to you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #17)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:11 PM

19. PS. What happens inside DU, while captivating for a posting junkie like me, is not in the same

universe when it comes to importance as what happens IRL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #17)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:33 AM

27. Yes, I knew he was a centrist.

I voted for him in the Primary because I thought he was slightly to the left of Hillary and then after he won, I somewhat let myself be swept along with the n-dimensional chess crowd. I remember his appointment of Rahm, and consoled myself with the idea that Obama was maybe obeying the old directive to "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." I figured maybe he put Rahm in as a hatchet man for staff reassignments, and Rahm wouldn't be allowed near policy decisions.

Denial and misplaced optimism sometimes die hard. I was still making excuses for him for some time after the writing was very clearly on the wall. I have forgiven myself. We were all a little naive in 2008-9. Or at least I had reverted to that state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #27)

Mon May 4, 2015, 01:14 AM

31. I never bought into the idea that he was a lefty, so I couldn't be

disappointed. He was way further left than the Republican ticket and that is all that matters on election day. So….any progress he does make for left issues will always surprise me pleasantly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #15)

Sat May 9, 2015, 01:39 AM

38. This is what I have seen on DU over the past number of years. Defense of the extra-judicial

assassinations of US Citizens. I cannot imagine having seen that during the Bush years.

Defense of cuts to SS in the form of the chained CPI.

Claims that I once heard only from Republicans, that SS was in some way responsible for the Deficit when nothing could be further from the truth.

Claims that SS won't survive, that there is 'nothing in the fund' when in fact it has over a 2 trillion dollar surplus.

Claims that torture can be excused.

Defense of continuing the wars in the ME and everywhere else

Rah rahing for the horrendous invasion of Libya.

I could go on but there were times when I thought I had gone back in time and was posting on one of the forums that were dominated by Bush supporters.

AND slamming of good Democratic Reps like Robert Kennedy Jr. Not to mention snide remarks about the 'Left' which usually had the adjective 'extreme' attached to it.

I know for a fact that many DUers simply left.

Support on DU for Monsanto.

It felt like DU had been invaded.

Support for Droning

Whistle Blowers called traitors.

The only reason I did not join those who left was because of the few great DUers who were still here, many times under attack for their views, who I stayed to support.

I think too that now a lot of people who did not want to enter into some of these pretty nasty discussions, so were not participating, are now feeling safer to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #38)

Sat May 9, 2015, 07:27 PM

39. I take it battle by battle - I never saw it as a wave one way or another.

Most of us are a mixed bag.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #39)

Sat May 9, 2015, 11:58 PM

40. Oh, it is a wave, and not just on this forum. Which is why so many have found other ways

to defend the values that used to be defended by all Dems and moved on.

I am not a 'mxed bag' if that means supporting a single Republican/Heritage Foundation/Third Way police. That doesn't mix with Democratic Party stated values.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #40)

Sun May 10, 2015, 10:22 AM

42. What I meant by mixed bag is that many members ARE a mixed bag.

I have absolutely no shame of being on the far left posting on Democratic Underground. As a GOTV activist I am driven to accept that not everyone is standing next to me on the left spectrum. And I have no interest in pushing them OFF the left spectrum and into the GOP because *I* rejected them and their position on the spectrum.

Some of us who are members here are ELECTION activists who work to get out the vote in purple states. Perhaps tolerating the spectrum comes easier to us….out of NECESSITY.

The wave I HAVE noticed in recent years, since right before 2012 cycle, was the influx of operatives pushing the 'no difference' message, and for some mysterious reason they have no interest in posting AGAINST the Republicans, and mainly target Democrats, especially on election issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #10)

Mon May 4, 2015, 11:39 PM

36. During his first campaign

If you watched who his friends were they were center New Dems or Blue Dogs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nite Owl (Reply #36)

Mon May 4, 2015, 11:58 PM

37. Yes. In my defense, though, Clinton had been the most recent Democratic President.

Before him, it was Carter and many people who had worked for Carter were no longer in the game. Ayers was certainly no New Dem and they had spent a lot of time together. Wright was no new Dem, etc. He had given the keynote speech at the convention that had nominated Kerry and Edwards, who certainly seemed liberal. Besides, how many liberals were there at the time? Also, as I have admitted many times, at that time, I didn't yet understand that the party had divided sharply. Besides, by Super Tuesday, my realistic choices were Hillary or Obama.

The reason I picked Obama to support originally (November 2007) was that I thought he had the best chance of winning the general. And, while I know I am not realistic on this, except maybe as to Bernie, I don't think it's on me to parse who a candidate hangs with or to parse his words with a laser. I think it's on him or her to tell me where he she stands, and without slicing and dicing words for plausible deniability when a candidate becomes POTUS.

But, yes, this time I am better informed and more cynical. However, I may never be cynical enough to "out-slick: the pros and that is sad from just about every possible perspective.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #8)

Mon May 4, 2015, 03:44 PM

33. most of that went away when Obama and his first congress abandoned his campaign

 

Rhetoric and adopted turd way governance. At that point liberals were told to be quiet and support the heritage foundation healthcare system, concessions on the budget, approval by the president of firing the teachers in Rhode island, refusal to close gitmo, refusal to prosecute Cheney, refusal to prosecute banksters, and refusal to pardon Don siegelman. And now of course the corporatist candidate is being presented as the only logical choice.

The result of the republicanization of the party should be clear by comparing the 2009 congress, when the electorate thought the democrats were going to govern liberally, to the present one. But some just refuse to learn.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #33)

Mon May 4, 2015, 06:04 PM

35. My point was I didn't see the great 'left has no voice here' shushing here that

is being claimed. There was some, but, nothing dominant, and no more of the far left abandoned DU than the many moderate lefties who also felt pushed away.

I just never saw it like some great purge as is being described in this exchange.

Bernie's been around a long time - he had many admirers on the entire left spectrum here - and his voice echoed here daily via the many Dems posting here. It was absolutely NO SURPRISE to me that bob's silent support thread for Bernie received so many posts. I think anyone REALLY keyed into this place would have predicted it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blm (Reply #35)

Sun May 10, 2015, 12:02 AM

41. Fine, you didn't see it. Maybe because some of the policies being espoused over the past

few years were okay with you. But for people who refuse to accept Republican lite, in the Dem Party, we have a Republican party, they saw it, by the hundreds. Fortunately the internet is a lot bigger now than it was in 2000 and there are more places to go to support ending the Corporate takeover of this party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #41)

Sun May 10, 2015, 11:07 AM

43. I'm a GOTV activist in a purple state, sabrina - what do YOU want from

people like me? I don't support centrists in the primaries - if I am STUCK in the general with a centrist Dem I will be working against the GOP candidate - and doing it FIERCELY.

You want ALL of us activists to stop registering voters who stand closer to the center? Perhaps my years of GOTV activism in this purple state, as well as a decade and a half here at DU have made me and other left members here much more tolerant than some like. We saw what happens to ALL of our issues when GOP wins.

I'm not going to target fellow Dems here at DU when the Paul2016 operatives are working this place over and pushing the 'no difference' lie when so much IS at stake.

sabrina, remember Twin Peaks: The owls aren't always what they seem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 10:45 PM

13. Ah, that Zeitgeist

 

Reality is again ascendent.

Excelsior!

(But there will be some major suckage between here and there.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Sun May 3, 2015, 10:55 PM

14. Major suckage is part of the human condition, I fear. But, I am hopeful again.

And energized again. And that feels so good. I guess I am a hope junkie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:48 PM

22. The important thing is like-minded people connecting

 

and building a new paradigm for the party and the voters and the nation.

There are always alternatives. The trick is, the marketing. Big money tries to drown out the alternatives, but the hucksters are selling broken crap nowadays, and the People aren't buying it.

After the major lemon of their last acquisition, the People are going to do a better job of choosing a new government, I hope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 11:51 PM

23. DU does not respond well to criticism of the Democratic Party. The easy part is making silly

cartoons of Ted Cruz on the front page. The harder part is accepting that the Democratic Party is, in fact, complicit and enabling the attack on the poor, the non-rich with idiotic policies like TPP.

We have torture, dragnet surveillance, fracking, drones, regime changes, Wall Street amnesty - all endorsed and/or defended by the Democratic Party.

TPP is just the latest weapon in the class war against working families.

30 years ago, you'd say only a right wing looney would advocate for these policies.

Now we have Democratic Leadership advocating for these policies.

Up until now, it has been a robotic echo chamber defending seriously shitty public policy.

The moral hazard has been unleashed.

We have to demand challenges to the 3rd way dogma spewing out from DNC, Hillary, Congress and the White House every day.










Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to whereisjustice (Reply #23)

Mon May 4, 2015, 03:53 PM

34. Thanks, I completely agree with this post

It's been great to see a ray of genuine revival with Sanders being willing to stand up for true progressive approaches to the corporatist policies that have been delivered by the major parties.

I've always been surprised, and deeply saddened, that DU is so supportive of these corporatists and their agenda.

So now we have a chance to present the actual necessary policy changes that are always "off the table", thanks mostly to Bernie's willingness to go for it.

Though I think he can win, and will work to make that happen, it's still a longshot.

What happens if Hillary wins the primary? Instantly, this whole context which gives us hope at the moment shifts to one of cynical triangulation and hold-your-nose coersion by corporatist Dems for the rest of us to shut up and get behind the nominee.

My hope is that a new force in U.S. politics can emerge from Bernie's candidacy. The spark is his primary run. Should he lose, we need a way to keep growing this movement. Perhaps as a Democratic Socialist movement that exists within the Democratic Party?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:35 AM

28. Lt's hear it for lefties!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 11:23 AM

32. Time to Make a Stand!

The MSM has been pushing
a BS narrative about the
political spectrum, ignoring
any perspective left of center.

Now that Bernie is opening the door
we need to get our foot in there
and KEEP IT OPEN.

We need to hold all the ground
Bernie gains, for down ballot
and local representation.

We need to start looking down ballot
and use Bernie's coattail to get
more populist candidates elected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread