I'd like to have two pinned threads for this Group... and I need everyone's input!

[Agschmid]

I told Autumn that I'd like to work on an SOP for this forum, this could be the first pinned thread. Here is a draft I worked on, and yes it's similar to some of the other "Democrats" groups...

The mission of the Bernie Sanders Group is to discuss information and news about the life, career, accomplishments, and current campaign for the Democratic Party's Nomination in 2016 of Bernie Sanders. The Bernie Sanders Group will provide a haven for those members of Democratic Underground who support the Senator Sanders and his policies; to discuss his policy positions, speeches, interviews, and other public appearances; to discuss Senator Sanders 2016 Democratic nomination campaign; and to discuss the causes which Senator Sanders has championed.

The Bernie Sanders Group is not a forum. This group serves as safe haven for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to this group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting, these decisions will be made by the current group hosts.

I'd also like to have a second pinned thread act as a clearing house of sorts of all Bernie Campaign website links...

- Facebook
- Twitter
- Website
- Etc.

I would need help gathering a comprehensive group of links, and would appreciate help with this.

Please let me know what you think of the group SOP, what edits you would like to see made. Also please help me out by provifing official Bernie Sanders links for the second pinned thread.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. What I'd like not to see?

Is people taking advantage of the 'haven' aspect of the group simply to bash other candidates or to complain about supporters of other candidates.

If folks want to bring OPs with other candidates into the group, it should be in terms of comparing them on specific issues or baggage or whatever to Bernie. (And obviously the assumption is that Bernie will come off better in any comparison.)

[Agschmid]

2. Agree.

Do you think I should word that section differently?

Any suggestions?

[TM99]

6. I think the wording is fine as is.

Any meta posts or bashing should be dealt with by the culture of this Group and on a case by case basis if and when it occurs.

Personally, I like the wording being only positive and not a long list of negatives that won't be acceptable.

[aspirant]

17. "only positive"

is extremely important.

Outside sources will let us know if Bernie makes a mistake and it's our job to turn a negative into a positive without posters harping on the negative

[leveymg]

27. You are right. This does appear to be virtually identical to the others, as will the result.

I thank Agschmid for his/her efforts in drafting a set of SOPs, but see some serious problems in its basic conception. The biggest problem with the HRC and Obama groups are that they have both banned almost as many members as active participants. It is simply too easy for the Hosts to ban persons who express dissident opinions. I think most of us have observed that this has resulted in a number of unintended effects for those forums that apply "safe haven" rules:

* insularity
* isolation
* an echo chamber for group-think
* top-down messaging
* a lack of diversity of opinion
* boring
* largely ineffective

We have the chance now to avoid repeating those unintended consequences associated with the "safe haven" system. I propose that the Bernie Sanders group stick with the same rules that apply for DU, and utilize the existing jury system to deal with the inevitable disruptors. That will also have the desirable impact of involving DU juries in the issues we confront.

The pros and cons of Agschmid's plan should be thoroughly debated point-by-point before we create the Bernie Sanders group as another bubble with a moat around it.

[Agschmid]

28. I agree.

I don't want to see a lengthy block list, I don't want to see us not react to reality in this group. Yes we have a goal and that goal is to get Bernie elected but I don't think we should silence as many voices.

I'm open to updates to the SOP so if you can think of a way to change the secondary section to show that we embrace the jury system I'd be open to that update.

[leveymg]

31. I'm very happy that you agree. :-)

If we find that the DU jury system isn't adequate or has its own unintended effects, we can all as a group vote to fine-tune the SOPs as we go along. But, I also would really like to avoid seeing a lot of suppression of differing opinions and a broad as possible inclusive approach to participation in the Bernie Sanders group.

As the progressive Left, we should be more democratic and tolerant of difference, because that's what we do!

[Agschmid]

32. Indeed!

[aspirant]

37. "As a progressive left"

and a specialized group we should be laser focused on our election of Bernie Sanders?

Our jury system should be composed of like-minded people, not people with a different agendas and biased with their love of THERE CANDIDATES

Would you expect Bernie's campaign to hire HRC supporters?

[leveymg]

41. The rules of decorum and civility apply equally across DU

I think the DU jury system and MIRT work pretty well in practice. The same rules apply equally. Why try to set up a separate system of exclusion? We've seen the results, and it doesn't work very well.

Let's not repeat the same mistake in the Bernie Sanders group that so obviously afflict the others.

[smokey nj]

47. Are "Bernie can't win" posts in this group something that should be left to a jury?

How many polite "I love Bernie, but..." or "I welcome Bernie to the debate..." posts are acceptable here? Everybody knows Bernie's a long shot, but some of us actually believe with some effort he should have a shot. Is this a group for people who actually support Bernie's candidacy - i.e. actually want him to win - or is it a group for people who just think he's a nice guy?

[leveymg]

49. Should we also exclude major poll results if they aren't encouraging enough?

What if someone posts a reasonable analysis filled with verifiable facts and information that isn't sufficiently positive? Should that be banned?

There will be trolls, but DU already deals with them. If there are instances where a disruptor isn't dealt with by normal means, then the host can lock the thread as "Off-topic", just like every other forum. But, that should be very rare.

[aspirant]

59. Negative Poll results

as long as they don't come with a Bernie can't win tag. If we can see where we must improve our groundwork in a positive way OKAY but you know that's not how it will be presented

Negative reasonable analysis on Bernie that originates on DU without a blue LINK, that we were unaware of before their posting, I would say rare indeed.

Locking a thread should only be rare when competing candidates supporters stop disrupting us. We have seen very clearly that their talking points and tactics don't come with hugs.

[Jackpine Radical]

110. If the whole point of a given "Bernie Can't Win" post

is to assert that Bernie can't win, it would be totally unhelpful. If it has some other point (e.g. how his presence in the campaign changes the character of the discussion; whether his messages seem to be resonating with the public, etc.), I would welcome them.

The easiest way to deal with a classic and useless "I love Bernie but…" post is just not to respond to it; let it sink.

[aspirant]

48. Is this a serious political arm

of the Sanders campaign to aid and assist in electing Bernie or just a rag-tag band of DU'ers subject solely to GD rules?

Civility is a two-way street and when our lane is blocked with petty alerts to get us vacation time, the system is broken.

[Agschmid]

57. Either way you are subject to the jury system.

That's just part of DU.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

58. Subject also to the hosts.

Without the actions of hosts, a group is not a group,
a home is not a home.

[aspirant]

64. A home has a family

or multiple families who together act as a unit

Bernie's platform is bringing power back to "The People" and breaking up the corporate power structure.

Without the actions or existence of its members, there is no group.

Bernie's principle that the power lies in the people should be practiced here and the hosts are only the implementers of the people needs.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

70. Not sure if you know

I'm in general agreement with you on all this.

[aspirant]

74. Thanks, nice to know

[aspirant]

61. But so are our rules to limit alerts

by limiting disrupters

[Jackpine Radical]

108. Thanks.

I was struggling to articulate pretty much the same sentiments.

[aspirant]

33. What is the purpose and difference of a group compared to another GD?

[smokey nj]

71. So you want the Bernie Sanders Group to be just like GD? If that's the case then I don't see the

point of having the group.

[L0oniX]

3. We're here to learn more about our candidate, foment active involvement in the campaign,

promote financial support, discuss the merit of his points, discuss his positive and negative aspects with the preponderance of the positive.
Fact checking is always a good thing IMO even if it occasionally reflects a negative point about our candidate. I don't expect a perfect candidate. Of course the standard DU rules forbid calling out other members directly. Calling out other groups can also get a hide. I have seen it happen. On the other hand I hope group members do not take the "haven" aspect as a excuse to behave like some other groups that seemingly go over board. We all can and should give praise to the merits, ideas and stance on the issues our candidate addresses ...and criticize them if there is a legit reason to do so. I don't think there will be many legit opportunities to criticize Bernie. He looks to be our best hope to rescue this country from the 1% and it's corruption of our Democracy.

[Agschmid]

7. Good post.

[aspirant]

16. Discuss "negative point(s) about our candidate"

Doesn't this open the door for non-supporters to gleefully point out these negative points under the guise of helping us?

I don't see anything about anti-bullying.

[djean111]

26. Gotta agree with that. Those "helpful" OP's are, to put it mildly, passive aggressive bullshit.

[Agschmid]

34. Haven't seen much/any of it yet.

Sure I think we should avoid it but I think that honestly there is significant support for this candidate on DU so we may see less of this compared to other groups. At least in the beginning, as the campaign rolls on it will be more challenging.

[aspirant]

39. "we should avoid it"

Then it should be done no matter your perspective

[Agschmid]

51. That's what I said...

[aspirant]

54. Then do what you say and remove it

[Agschmid]

56. Remove what? What are you talking about?

I really just don't understand.

[aspirant]

68. Either we should avoid it or we shouldn't

Choose your words wisely or alter those words

[djean111]

45. I am referriing to those condescending OPs which explain why Bernie does not have a chance.

Because he is a "Socialist", because people like him never win, because he doesn't brush his hair, because there are not a lot of people in Vermont. Bunch of those yesterday in GD. They just make me laugh in GD, but I would hate to read them here, because they are meant as jobs and meant to dishearten. IMO. Let's see, Nate Cohn just said Bernie does not have a chance. Cohn replaced Nate Silver. Do we need to read that in this group, is the question.

[smokey nj]

76. Not just OPs, I'm more concerned about passive aggressive

responses like the one in the thread where the OP compares Bernie to George Washington. I sincerely doubt that the person who suggested Don Quixote is here to do anything more than disrupt.

[aspirant]

78. Hey Smokey nj

Disrupt, I agree because there is no reason to invite the challengers into our huddle.

[L0oniX]

79. I wouldn't want to see those supposed negatives tolerated here.

A legit negative would be his age IMO. I'd rather have us take a chance on his endurance and get all the good he can get us. To me that out weighs the negative of his age.

[djean111]

81. We won't see the age thing too much from those who support other candidates who are

around his age, I think.

[L0oniX]

77. It would be obvious if someone was using a negative to hammer on Bernie.

Denying that our choice has any faults would make us like some of the other groups where their choice might as well be a g0d. One negative that there is no way around is his age but I'd rather have the country take the risk of a shortened term because of health problems so that the country can benefit from his positives for as long as possible.

[aspirant]

82. The problem is if

they are using a polite negative to circumvent our rules for the hindrance of electing Bernie.

If the SOP specifically states the election of Bernie, we are covered

[morningfog]

4. Yes. Havens should be used as a shield, not a sword.

[BrotherIvan]

9. I agree. Good point.

There's so much that's positive to talk about with Bernie, there is no need to talk about anyone else, frankly. I think a lot of people were very critical of Clinton because they thought they would have to hold their nose and vote for her. Now they don't. They have an amazing candidate instead.

Bashing Clinton is unnecessary and will bring in posters who have a bone to pick. I'm tired of reading it in GD and it only serves to derail discussion.

[aspirant]

15. Do we not criticize(discuss) Obama with the TPP, safety net cuts or a corporate budget

which Bernie opposes.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

21. Unless you're specifically pointing out how Bernie is different on such issues

I don't think it needs to be posted here.

Generic post about how Obama sucks on TPP should go in GD, post about how Bernie responds to sucky TPP here

[Agschmid]

23. Yup.

[aspirant]

40. Good,

then any pro-TPP supporter should take his opinions off this site to GD and we should not be subjected solely to a jury system composed of even 1 of these people.

[L0oniX]

80. +1

[blm]

60. Agree. That happened in the Warren group and, as harsh a critic as I've been of

Last edited Fri May 1, 2015, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

both Clintons over the last 11 years, there is no way I am going to even accept RW talking points from GOP propagandists, let alone further their inflammatory narratives here at DU. That occurred far too often in that group, and, did not represent Warren faithfully, imo.

I would rather Warren and Sanders be represented thoughtfully here at DU, the way they have always presented themselves.

Above all, Bernie has shown himself for 3 decades to be a common sense leader and candidate, and that should inspire all of us to tread that path.

CommonSenseSanders is a leader for all. Let's represent that.

[TBF]

5. His official website is in my sigline -

[G_j]

8. and to organize, and brainstorm, hopefully. nt

[daleanime]

10. +1

[aspirant]

18. Assist in local and Grass Roots organizing

should be specifically stated.

[BrotherIvan]

11. I would like the second thread to be

I think it was woo me with science (forgive me if I'm wrong) suggestion that it is a place to get quotes, or pictures with quotes or great articles to share in social media. Sort of a bulletin board of stuff to share around the web/friends/family. We have a lot of educating to do regarding Bernie's career, his positions, and his campaign platform, so it would be great to have an evolving thread that helps with that.

Thanks for what you are doing.

[Agschmid]

13. Done!

[Cheese Sandwich]

12. I think the campaign twitter account is https://twitter.com/berniesanders

https://twitter.com/berniesanders

and

https://twitter.com/sensanders of an official Senator account

but they might overlap

[Agschmid]

14. Corrected, thanks!

[joshcryer]

19. Just posted some videos in the BB.

I watch all the news conferences and videos and if I have the links handy I'll post them.

[Agschmid]

24. Thanks!

[aspirant]

20. SOP

"discuss his positive and negative aspects with the preponderance of the positive" This invites in trouble and should be eliminated

[Agschmid]

25. What do other people think about this part?

So far, and I think it's a function of the overwhelming support for Bernie on DU I haven't seen much/any negative.

[smokey nj]

29. I think it's pretty negative that people who don't want Bernie to win come here and remind us

how hopeless his candidacy is, even if they do so politely. Everybody here knows that Bernie's a long shot and the odds are stacked against him, but I, and I suspect many other subscribers to this group, think he has a chance if we put in the effort. If that isn't the case than why even bother having a group for Bernie Sanders supporters?

[Agschmid]

30. I think I copied that section from L0onix post, maybe they can share what they meant?

Not sure who I got it from but I can figure it out.

[L0oniX]

94. To put it kindly ...that is most likely not going to be tolerated.

[leveymg]

35. As for mandating a "preponderance of the positive," who will keep score?

I also see problems with this in action. Any ambiguous rule should be avoided.

[Agschmid]

36. I think the intention is the hosts will do this.

If any members see something they feel like should be posted they should call it out in the thread, or tell a host.

[leveymg]

38. That's the point. Should we give the hosts the power to apply a "too much negative" rule?

Where does one draw that line? What is really negative? Should we set up rules that are prone to differing interpretation and arbitrary enforcement?

My advice - let's see how this works in practice without such a rule before we start imposing unclear standards of positivity!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

42. So far the host(s) have done fine

in ousting trolls. It's not that difficult to spot a troll,
no matter how subtly they try to play it. They can't
help themselves, and when asked to stop trolling,
they invariably troll more. Not rocket science. The
group is about Bernie Sanders, not expanding a few
peoples' longing for more debate and differences
in groups.

[leveymg]

44. Not in the HRC and Obama groups. Too much banning by hosts.

We've seen the results over there, and I don't think we should repeat the same results, IMHO.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

50. I'm talking about the Bernie Sanders group.

Trolls have already been well-shown the exit.
That's a good sign & I trust the hosts to keep
the common purpose of the group in sight,
which is the support of Bernie Sanders, and
not the support of disruptors subtle or blatant.

[leveymg]

65. We haven't had SOP rules until now. Our job now is to iron out the group rules before

the Bernie Sanders group is really up and running. As much as the hosts have been doing a great job so far, we need to set some rules that limit their powers, as well.

If you think that there should be no limits on the powers of Hosts to ban participants, and lock and remove threads, then you are free to argue the merits of that approach. But, that needs to be a group decision.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

66. "We haven't has POS rules until now."

No idea what that means.

"If you think that there should be no limits on the powers of Hosts to ban participants, and lock and remove threads..."

The hosts have already proven to be trustworthy as far
as banning trolls goes. I could be wrong but I don't believe any host
on DU can "remove threads."

Your concerns seem to have zilch to do with Bernie Sanders
or the support of Bernie Sanders.

[leveymg]

67. Please see change above

Need more coffee.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

69. Understood.

I need less coffee.
I added some comments above.
I've had my say on this.
Peace.

[L0oniX]

97. I hope this group will stand out as being better than the others.

Nothing can stop them all from coming in here and trolling us. We would soon have a large ban list like they do, however I hope we don't become IMO irrational with controls like IMO the other groups have.

[aspirant]

100. We can stop these unwanted critters

if we choose to.These nuisances are never going to work and vote for Bernie so why have them around?

Are we just trying to be nice or are they educating us with their talking points.

[L0oniX]

103. We are not being flooded with "unwanted critters".

If you don't trust the mods to deal with "unwanted critters" then make your point about it.

[Puglover]

107. +1

[aspirant]

109. I have made multiple points on this OP for change

If you don't have specific rules in place, you're asking for trust me loyalty

[smokey nj]

115. I think we can find a place that's somewhere between a fan club and a free-for-all.

[L0oniX]

116. Yeah I agree ...I don't think it's going to be a problem.

[aspirant]

117. Your drinking the Kool-Aid, huh

I sincerely wish you well, Happy trails

[smokey nj]

118. That's not it at all, and if you knew me you wouldn't say that.

[aspirant]

120. I guess I don't know you, Good Luck

[smokey nj]

121. Sorry you feel that way, aspirant.

[aspirant]

122. Don't be sorry

I'm happy I have a better understanding of you thru your threads and posts.

[MerryBlooms]

22. Nice job on the pinned threads.

[rhett o rick]

43. Thank you for your work and I am glad to see we have some excellent hosts. Also, glad to

see the quick action taken re. those that obviously came here to disrupt. Appeared like kamikaze attacks. I hope we don't see more.

[aspirant]

46. Does anyone here think this group

should NOT resemble a political arm of the Sanders campaign?

Would the Sanders campaign hire HRC supporters?

Would the Sanders campaign let its decisions and actions be judged by HRC advocates?

Would the Sanders campaign invite in HRC protesters to disrupt meetings and instill negativity?

Sanders supporters need a cleansed environment to operate at peak efficiency.

IMO no one should be trying to muddy the waters here

[Agschmid]

52. I understand your point however this statement stands out...

Sanders supporters need a cleansed environment to operate at peak efficiency.

I don't agree at all. Bernie is going to have to run in the real world, he won't have a cleansed environment. DU is a reflection of one side of an argument, the Democratic side. Sure there are some general trolls on DU but those trolls are banned either by MIRT or Admin.

I'm not willing to have a cleansed environment, where it appears we operate outside of the real world environment. All that does is turn us into an echo chamber, where idea can't natually grow, and we can't have some adverse opinions in order to effect change. Walking in lock step unison is boring, and overrated.

The fact that DU is for democrats only (as it should be) already does most of this cleansing for us.

[aspirant]

72. Are "adverse opinions"

the only way for change?

What about positive creative opinions, can they change our lives too. Do you think our NASA engineers walked into their offices with people booing them and criticizing their ideas to put a man on the moon?

Our "real world environment" is exactly what Bernie is running to change. The problems are not a mystery, resistance to change is the problem and we all know it. It's suppose to be our job to bring these solutions to life, not keep running around in circles trying to find these so-called evasive solutions.

Who says ideas can't grow in an echo chamber? You would never have an echo chamber if a first novel thought wasn't spoken. Echo chambers are not silence but just groups of people with like minds creating and developing the new echos of life.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

73. Okay, I laughed with this:

"Do you think our NASA engineers walked into their offices with people booing them and criticizing their ideas to put a man on the moon?"

[L0oniX]

84. NASA? You can bet that if anyone indicates there is a negative before a launch it will be addressed.

[aspirant]

85. So has Bernie

addressed the negatives before his launch.

[L0oniX]

86. At this point I can only think of one negative.

His age. I am willing to take the chance on his endurance for the good he will bring our country for as long as he can ...and that's my answer to that negative. Hillary has already had health problems and has an age issue as well. Weighing the 2 ...Bernie comes out ahead IMO.

[aspirant]

87. I would like for you to be clear

Do you think adverse opinions are the only way for change?

Do you stand by your positives and negatives statement currently in the SOP welcome statement?

[L0oniX]

89. I've been clear enough.

Do you think adverse opinions are the only way for change?

That's a ridiculous question IMO. The SOP is clear enough and I think most of us know what kind of negatives are being implied in the SOP.

discuss his positive and negative aspects with the preponderance of the positive

[aspirant]

95. No answer on #2

So you stand by that statement

Post#52 "adverse opinions in order to effect change" If this is such a ridiculous question why did you agree with it in your post # 83 (+1)

[L0oniX]

101. If you have a problem with what Agschmid said I suggest you respond to Agschmid.

I'm getting the impression you are trying to create problems where IMO they don't exist.

[Puglover]

106. Totally agree LOoniX

[aspirant]

111. I did respond Post # 72

I'm trying to create solutions where IMO the lack of an actual Safe Haven does exist

[L0oniX]

112. There's nothing to stop the group from changing rules or the SOP ...if it is needed.

[L0oniX]

88. You already know Bernie has a long track record on his positions.

Any negatives people have approached him with have been addressed. I am sure he is prepared to deal with them. There is a group that still thinks Obama can do no wrong and that he has no negatives. Is that what we need here? True we are not here to "promote" any possible Bernie negatives. We should promote his positives. Age is a negative for any candidate if it means a candidate may not last for 2 terms. I am willing to chance that for all the good Bernie will do for our country. ...and that is my rebuttal to anyone who brings up his age as a negative. I'm sure he has addressed this negative. It's not a hard thing to do.

[aspirant]

91. "We should promote his positives"

Do you think this group should focus its energy on combating continual opposition talking points or focus on Bernie's stances and principles with our ultimate goal of his election.

[L0oniX]

92. Personally I'd rather see us focus on offense and not defense.

[aspirant]

96. So why are you not for a defensive plan

to keep the offense rolling strong?

[L0oniX]

98. I'm not going to play along with your reading into posts that which is not there.

why are you not for a defensive plan

[aspirant]

104. Thanks Loonix

I think I've got a good idea of where you stand

[L0oniX]

105. I stand for Bernie Sanders.

[Agschmid]

123. Same.

[blm]

131. Bernie don't play that way - it's too divisive

especially when the great majority of Dems have always appreciated Sanders.

I don't think attacks on Sanders here or in GD will be coming from fearful Clinton supporters. This will be my third presidential primary here at DU. I've been facing down some of these same Clinton supporters here since 2004 when it became evident establishment Clintonites were undermining 2004 so she could run in 2008 - I spent all those years countering them vigorously and throughout that 2008 cycle. I have also been one of the fiercest critics of her time at State. There is plenty to discuss, substantively, without coming here and furthering the RW propaganda agenda. I know RW bs when I see it. I've been monitoring the build up of the RW propaganda machine since my days with FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting) back in the 90s when George Carlin donated FAIR office space in LA.

I think it is far more likely that RW operatives will attempt to use this haven as a dividing ground to hurt ALL Dems.

To quote Twin Peaks, "The owls aren't always what they seem."

Don't be afraid of DU's HRC group - 99% of them are earnest, dependable Democrat voters. We should emulate Sanders approach - Act honestly and without malice towards other Democrats.

Those here at DU as RW operatives will get weeded out….eventually. Their tactics become apparent.

[L0oniX]

83. +1

[darkangel218]

113. This group supposed to be a safe heaven, imho, not a place for "adverse opinions"

There is plenty of that in GD, no need for it here too.

*sighs*

[patricia92243]

53. I tried going to the link that had his website. I registered and all it wanted

was for me to donate. Is there a place that has his bio, ideas, etc for Prez?

[Agschmid]

55. His senate page is your best bet at this time.

It appears that presidential website will be updated on the launch day, listed. Also sign up for emails he sends them weekly and at has given me great insight into his positions.

[NYC_SKP]

62. Nice Work!

Sorry I missed the discussion!

[Agschmid]

63. Thanks!

[aspirant]

75. The SOP needs to clearly say,

This group is for the nomination and election of Senator Sanders to President of the USA.

This group should go beyond discussion and debate and clearly include actions

The SOP has 4 references "to discuss."

[MuseRider]

90. I hesitate to comment

since I am not here much anymore. I do support Senator Sanders 100% at this moment.

PLEASE do not make this the BOG or others like it.

Good debate is good debate and we can either uphold what our candidate says or not. I would hate for this to become a place to spin a negative just so he looks good. That would remove all reason for many of us to want to be here I would suspect.

I am capable of trashing any of the "yeah but he can't win" posts but other than that I do want to hear what others are saying and would like for them to feel free to bring concerns.

Maybe not being here much makes this moot but I see little of value anymore in the larger forums and mostly that is because of the insular maneuvering and group planning in the other groups.

In my opinion, and that actually matters little even to me , is that if our candidate would not do it we should not either.

Looks pretty good and I know things can be changed as we go along. If he stays good and in I will most likely want to be here more and this would be a lovely group to be a part of. I would be very willing to help out if I ever get the chance to be here more often.

[L0oniX]

93. "PLEASE do not make this the BOG or others like it"

[blm]

102. Thank you.

Several of us old-timers are making that point.

Nice to see you again, Muse.

[MuseRider]

119. Very nice to see you again too

blm. It has been many years since the days when we would be doing back and forth daily!

I hope life is being good to you and that all is grand your way

[blm]

124. heheh….still here working to keep it honest, Muse….

this place needs its old-timers. ; )

[MuseRider]

125. Good luck with that!

I seriously cannot believe I have even owned a computer as many years as I have been a DUer. Flies so fast.

[blm]

126. ; )

.

[Agschmid]

129. Indeed, thank you!

[Kali]

130. yep

I would be much more interested in a group that has real discussion as opposed to simple "cheer-leading" (sorry I do hate the term, and I am not trying to disparage groups that are soley for "support" but intellectually I prefer reality)

[stage left]

99. Hey

I like your SOP just as you wrote it. I think disruptors should be taken out of this group by the nape of the neck. As a long time Bernie fan, I can't personally think of anything negative to say about him except he hasn't cloned himself, but I'm sure others can. Myself, I respect the Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and History of Feminism groups as safe havens and don't see why the Bernie group can't be the same. If a Bernie supporter welcomes grief and dissension all they have to do is post in General Discussion. Truly I am disappointed to see so much turmoil in GD, a lot of rancor for past posts and stuff. It's made me hesitant to post my support for any candidate. I mean they're all Democratic candidates. And we're all Democrats right. We should have a lot in common and be able to get along. But then I remember what Will Rogers said--I belong to no organized political Party, I'm a Democrat.

Anyway, I'm glad this group is here and thanks for your work on it. Go Bernie!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

127. good post, stage

[stage left]

128. Thanks

[arcane1]

114. I like it!