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Baobab

(4,667 posts)
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:22 PM Mar 2016

THE key difference between Bernie and Hillary - "Money isnt Everything" v. "Money is Everything"

If anybody wants to understand the difference between the two candidates, its likely much of it can be encapusulated right there.

All of the policy initiatives proposed by Bernie Sanders attempt to put us back on the path we were on in the last 20th century where we had a strong middle class and the models for globalization and deregulation were not as aggressive as they are now, there was room for middle class people to move upward, rather than a push to eliminate "overpaid" American workforces.

Hilllary represents the so called Washington Consensus, continuing the Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama legacy of deregulation and liberalisation.

So Bernie is trying to reduce the impact of rapidly diverging levels of income on key things like ability to pursue education and ability to both "access" and afford health care without creating un-payable debts which will push people off the edge into the abyss. That's is where all of his policies differ from Hillary's which prioritize profit-making and try to avoid changes that will shift the balance back towards the taxpayers as opposed to the big players.

Its crucially important to understand that the negotiations over key parts of trade deals started during the first Clinton Administration are only being wrapped up now, and the effects of much of that deal are still in the future. The changes being made will likely be permanent, and they will drastically effect the future job prospects of all working people in member countries. Our indigenous workers will likely lose a substantial amount of income but large international services businesses as well as domestic businesses large enough to utilize workers in a contract based economy will become more profitable. Jobs will become less stable here but more of the value in the supply chain will be passed upward.

Large numbers of negotiators have been working for literally 20 years (during several bursts of activity in periods during which there was FastTrack authority) to create and work out the kinks of a huge new global jobs for markets trading scheme which privatizes large portions of what is now the public sector, making a great many jobs available for international competitive bidding in member countries. Under the Clinton era deal they used more of a "positive list" approach in services schedules but the newer set of negotiations is much more aggressive and uses a "negative list" (basically what would be called in Internet opt out) which will include by default all service sectors and modes of supply.

That will also greatly reduce the ability of people to enter the workforce via America, as American citizens, because with the opportunity to hire subcontractors for much less, many companies that want to reduce their various costs will subcontract them.

Hillary is thinking of the banks and the various other "major stakeholders" especially foreign direct investment in low value high profit services like commodified educational services and globalization of health care. (It may be more economical to send chronically ill poor people overseas for health care than treat them here. This maximizes the value in the supply chains, a key objective of globalization.)

Obviously her approach leaves the most wasteful practices in place, and that is in part their goal, because it makes them more profitable for their owners.

Bernie, being a Senator is likely prohibited from talking about the changes directly but he is trying to make his candidacy a sort of referendum on them by pretending they never happened, (since the nation has never been told about them, I think they lack legitimacy, in fact many proponents of them, for example, Pierre Sauve, have said the same thing) Bernie Sanders is operating under the assumption - and I think its the correct one, that the American public would find these changes so abhorrent they would reject them out of hand.

That unfortunately, will not save our economy from being drastically changed by them. The new trade deals (as well as the new interpretation of the existing WTO policies) contain standstill clauses that block literally completely blocks the old New Deal type programs and block the domestic government (Federal/state/local/quasi-governmental (grants)) spending to create domestic jobs approach (as discrimination against foreign corporations) perhaps eventually even down to the municipal / local level TPP (or TTIP or TISA) could be signed at any day, and all of them are disasters for our country.

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KPN

(15,635 posts)
1. So .... you're a "Glass is totally empty" kind of guy/lady?
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

Not meaning to be smug, but what is your point? It sounds like you think things are hopeless, i.e., to resist is futile. But maybe I misread.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
2. How do you mean resist? Once a trade deal is signed, they become nearly impossible to change
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:48 PM
Mar 2016

ecept by re-convening the parties ad re-negotiating them, or withdrawing which is intentionally so expensive as to be made impossible.

So if he real question is, could these trade deals completely paralyze the next President in basically all the areas of policy that "matter" to us, the answer is definitely yes.

I think that they would block health care reform, they would block making education affordable and they would block all New Deal like programs.

All of those things have already been promised to others.

Do you know anything about "neoliberalism" or the WTO in particular?

Basically, they set up a deal between the developed countries and the developing countries, and the payoff for the developing countries has been proposed to be a bunch of things including market access to the developed countries services markets via something like the WTO Government Procurement Agreement's e-portal .

E-Bidding on contracts to provide goods and services. the WTO services agreement includes four modes of supply, the fourth mode of supply is movement of natural persons to provide services. ("Mode Four&quot

But WTO rues likely will apply more broadly in the future.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
3. If Bernie wins by a landslide it would be impossible to claim that the WTO
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:54 PM
Mar 2016

deal from the has has any legitimacy.

Any perceived referendum on the WTO and indeed the entire Clinton-era services agenda would have lost a great deal of legitimacy and we could make a far better argument that it was not binding on us (really the entire planet) because it was kept completely secret by the people who hoped to sneak thse deals on the world, in effect taking over the future direction of the planet without firing a shot..

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
4. Look for Bill Clinton's keynote speech to the 1999 WTO Minesterial in Seattle
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:01 PM
Mar 2016

He is the single American most associated with the WTO.

Also look at the recent string of WTO disputes between the US and India. Both the solar panels and the L-1 visas and Mode Four dispute.

Its potentially a very big change thats hanging on the second one.

I suspect the WTO may rule that quotas simply are not permitted.

I don't know. I am no expert there but it certainly looks to me as if that could happen from my reading of the GATS.

Millions of man-years and twenty years of negotiations hasn't gone into GATS for it to be so greatly limited.

KPN

(15,635 posts)
5. Gotcha ...
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

I'm with you 100%.

I just thought you were saying there's nothing that can change already existing free trade agreements. That it is hopeless -- we are doomed -- etc.

I just prefer to be more optimistic about it. I think the people have the power if they can be awakened (Bernie's making amazing progress in doing that).

So what if Bernie doesn't win in a landslide? What then? Again, I prefer to be optimistic in believing the people will ultimately prevail.

I'm going to have to try to find some good books on free trade. My understanding is pretty anecdotal at this point. What I don't understand is how the most powerful nation in the world can be held accountable if it decides (via the people's wishes) to walk away from them. I get that there may be international implications, especially for corporations, and that there may be economic consequences stateside -- but treaties and international agreements are only as good as the parties' abidance in them. No?

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
6. The real action is the trade deals - the US presidential elections may not be able to help at all if
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 04:01 PM
Mar 2016

those new trade deals get signed

This is a good video on neoliberalism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017340480

You should also read the links I posted higher up, especially the one on health care.

Policyalternatives.ca has some of the best writing out there on trade deals, going back 20 years.

better than most books as far as accessability. In the US public citizen has a lot of good writing bit their web site makes it difficult to find. But its there, they do very good work.


Baobab

(4,667 posts)
7. The companies are creating a new international system that ignores what people want, and their safet
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 05:11 PM
Mar 2016

and well being, and puts corporations on top, even though thats really stupid.

They claim all sorts of things but the world went for thousands of years without it, I think the biggest reason why they are doing this is that jobs are going away globally - people still dont realize this and while they can, they want to preemptively take over and hijack democratic control away from the people using any excuse they possibly can - hijack the possible policy space.


Also, the environment- The cost of biopersistent chemicals is potentially huge unless they stop using them but that would be seen as admitting liability, or a sign of weakness..

because huge liabilities could potentially bite them on the environment, etc.

Examples:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4399291/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=endocrine+plastic+dust

--- Using ISDS basically the taxpayers become responsible for everything, so any change in an intolerable situation, nomatter what the cause, is used to soak the taxpayers until the system breaks, and its likely they will break first, so the system goes on until - until everybody is so sick it cant, maybe

free money, whats so difficult to understand about that?

Google "indirect expropriation".


>What I don't understand is how the most powerful nation in the world can be held accountable

Stop thinking that the government does not want this to happen, we are the #1 cheerleader for this system. What they want is a way to blame it on somebody else, but don't worry, they are pros at this.


>if it decides (via the people's wishes) to walk away from them. I

They wont, the system is squelching every possible discussion. Probably you know that already, though.

>get that there may be international implications, especially for corporations, and that there may be economic consequences stateside -


Whatever happens, the people always pay, the corporate interests always come out ahead. thats the main idea behind the "ratchet" clauses in trade deals, Ratchet, Standstill, Rollback.

Imagine you were with a six year old who would only play a game with you if you decided in advance they would always win.

> but treaties and international agreements are only as good as the parties' abidance in them. No?

We have decided that everything is to be privatized because things that arent are efficient and cost effective and thats not what they want. So they have invested decades in lying and in setting up a new totally right and wrong blind new system and they are busily replacing the system that existed up until around 1980 with this. And they're almost done. So, if there s a lot of climate change they will be ready to sell the afflicted water at the highest price the market will bear.. Same thing with drugs, they are investing a lot of energy into making drugs so much more expensive than their actual cost that people are being bankrupted by things that cost literally pennies a year to make.

its called "maximizing the value in the supply chains" they are doing this with work too. Buy low, sell high. You'll see.

KPN

(15,635 posts)
8. Thanks much for taking the time Bao!
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:05 AM
Mar 2016

I'll take a good look. Promise.

Keep up the battle and education. Good on you!

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
9. terrifying! although, i did
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:10 AM
Mar 2016

hear on one of the msm's the other day that it is unlikely the tpp will be approved by congress.
the corporations are already suing countries for loss of revenue because their exploits are halted or banned.

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